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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 8/7/2001 6:28:52 PM EDT
Went to my range today, shot my Bushy, Sigs, etc. etc. While I enjoyed a "jam free" day with my Bushy, a fellow AR-15 shooter shows up with a DPMS shorty. Now I have always admired the DPMS rifles, and thought of them as a quality weapon, this poor guy probably only finished 1 mag that didn't jam! I looked at the gun, he even pulled the carrier out for inspection, it didn't appear to be overly fouled or dry of lube. He had both failures to extract, and failures to fire. Was using contract mags, and was shooting several types of ammo, British SS109, Russian (could be part of the problem), and some other surplus That I couldn't really tell what it was. Maybe he just had a lemon, but if it were me I would be mad as heck and would be boxing that sucker up to back to the factory. I guess there are problem guns with all brands, but this sure changed my thinking of ever buying one.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:38:22 PM EDT
I have seen something similar with a Bushmaster. A friend at the range was having one hange up on him...failure to extract. He had been shooting Wolf ammo and then went to brass cases. The brass cases started to stick in the chamber. He cleaned the heck out of the chamber and it functioned fine after that. The only thing I can think that may have caused this is the lacquer coating on the wolf cases. As it was cleaned out, there was a bunch of residue. If you see the guy at the range again, suggest cleaning the heck out of it. I don't know if the wolf ammo he was using was a bad lot because I have never seen that before. Hope this helps. fuatos
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:39:29 PM EDT
Could have been some other maintence problem that is not readily apparent. Having said that, I've never once had a jam with my Colts. But that is strange for DPMS, they have an exceptional reputation from what I hear.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:39:40 PM EDT
You know its really a waste of my time to read an article like this. Solve your problem. Then write and tell what you found. If you are going to shoot this rifle you have to understand how it works. Read manuals. Take it apart completely every time you shoot it. Keep a notebook of every action taken to the rifle. Note wear patterns. It should be your loved one. Its not like a fucking VCR where you buy one, use it til it doesn't work and then buy some other brand. Until you learn this rifle you are a waste of skin.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:40:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:41:45 PM EDT
fuatos is most likely correct. I've never used Russian lacquered-steel cases before. I have heard of them leaving lacquer residue in the chamber, especially when the chamber is hot. That, combined with a tight chamber, might have been the guy's problem.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:43:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By grimshaw: You know its really a waste of my time to read an article like this. Solve your problem. Then write and tell what you found. If you are going to shoot this rifle you have to understand how it works. Read manuals. Take it apart completely every time you shoot it. Keep a notebook of every action taken to the rifle. Note wear patterns. It should be your loved one. Its not like a fucking VCR where you buy one, use it til it doesn't work and then buy some other brand. Until you learn this rifle you are a waste of skin.
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Do you know how to solve the problem? Damn, maybe you are a waste of skin for being so utterly lacking in any usefullness, except in hurling insults at a guy asking for help. I hereby make you the honorary troll of the day.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:01:33 PM EDT
I have a DPMS flat top upper with their 16" bull barrel that I got from Coolmade back in Jan. It hasn't missed a lick, with a variety of ammo. This guy may very well have a bad one, we have all seen it happen, but I am hearing more and more stories like this from folks using the lacuered cases. A friend tried some, in an AR that works great normally. He said that as long as he went slow, it did fine. When he started rapid fire drills, he started getting failures to eject, and also to feed. Cleaned it and it did fine. Got all sorts of crud from his chamber. He felt that when it got hot, it began to get sticky. Just my .02 Any way, I hope he gets it running OK.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:15:47 PM EDT
grimshaw the way I read the post, the rifle was not his, it belonged to someone else he met at the range.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:17:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By grimshaw: You know its really a waste of my time to read an article like this. Solve your problem. Then write and tell what you found. If you are going to shoot this rifle you have to understand how it works. Read manuals. Take it apart completely every time you shoot it. Keep a notebook of every action taken to the rifle. Note wear patterns. It should be your loved one. Its not like a fucking VCR where you buy one, use it til it doesn't work and then buy some other brand. Until you learn this rifle you are a waste of skin.
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Congratulations on becoming a butthole. What are you going to do for an encore?
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:18:28 PM EDT
Yes, the rifle isn't his. Yes, I am new to this board.Such tender feelings! Let Mother set her purse down and give you a little hug because you don't understand your rifle!
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:20:26 PM EDT
I must agree with rg00red 100%. This grimshaw dude is most certainly a !!!!head.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:21:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:23:40 PM EDT
Hey beerslayer moron. Fuck you and your Mom you rode in on.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:27:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:34:10 PM EDT
My Mom could kick your shaved ass up and down the street, so be nice or I'll tell her what you said.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:37:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:39:14 PM EDT
Well I certainly didn't mean to start a flame war, BUT this is in fact a DISCUSSION board, not just a question & answer forum. I simply posted a statement of fact of what I observed today. If all we did was ask questions and give what we thought to be the correct answer, it sure would be an awful boring place to hang out, kind of like a bad date. After what I observed, it really makes me think twice about the Russian ammo, I have fired many rounds of it in 7.62x39 guns, but never any 5.56/.223. I guess some guns like it, others don't.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:40:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:43:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:54:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:03:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: AR's and wolf ammo are known problems. Add to the fact the tight chamber and you have instant jams. The only wolf problems i have seen were after several mags with a hot rifle. It's like pouring glue in your chamber. mike
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Could have very well been this dude's problem, after he had fired a bunch of the Russian, any other ammo may not be reliable due to the residue of Laquer, as I'm sure the rifle was pretty hot as he did fire a Bunch of rounds through it. Still, many people hon this forum swear by the Wolf .223, and say they have no problems. I just really hate to see someone invest this kind of money in a weapon that doesn't function properly. Maybe he just hasn't "learned" it properly.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:04:30 PM EDT
My first response on any discussion board on this site and I had to run into Mr. Grimm. Oh well. On to point. I also have a shooting partner who owns a DPMS w/ the same symptoms. Failure to extract and some really brass trashing gouges on the base. I hope this thread stays unlocked long enough for some good solutions to emerge.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:16:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:21:01 PM EDT
Let me say again that I don't mean to trash DPMS weapons, I own several AR's both Bushy & Colt, and while most people are loyal to one brand or the other, I simply am not, I like 'em all as long as they shoot. I have been in the market for a Bull upper, and seriously considered a DPMS as they appear to be of fine quality, the finish is good, and appear to have lack of tool marks or rough edges. There are instances of problems with all I guess, a good friend had a Blue label pre-ban Colt that simply would not chamber the next round after firing 50% of the time. The gun was repaired by Colt free of charge, (although it did take 9 months) He is happy that it runs 100% now, but is disappointed in the fact that no one at Colt would tell him what was repaired! If it were me, I would want to know as if the problem ever arose again maybe I could fix it myself. That is what is so great about this forum, we can share our experiences both good & bad.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:23:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:33:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: My impression of the dpms is more of a target type rifle than a combat rifle. They definantly make a quality product. Are you close to birmingham? mike
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A couple of hours away. Thank God for Dixie, I see all these posts about no black rifles at ranges, no fmj, semi-autos banned in cities up north, etc. Makes me feel real proud to still live free! If you dont have a sport utility rifle around these parts, you just ain't even hip. BTW SKS's are the poor man's AR around where I live, every pawn shop in Alabama has at least 3.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:58:11 PM EDT
TBS, Thanks for the welcome to the forum. I've been lurking the boards awhile and some seem more like the colloseum. I have not been entirely taken with WOLF ammo. I believe it to be a somewhat "dirty" round. Seems I clean more after than usual. The laquer issue is puzzling. Why would a manufacturer coat the case with hot melt glue? BTIP. I am really not dissing anyone, just looking for some nuggets and history.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:58:54 PM EDT
TBS, Thanks for the welcome to the forum. I've been lurking the boards awhile and some seem more like the colloseum. I have not been entirely taken with WOLF ammo. I believe it to be a somewhat "dirty" round. Seems I clean more after than usual. The laquer issue is puzzling. Why would a manufacturer coat the case with hot melt glue? BTIP. I am really not dissing anyone, just looking for some nuggets and history.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:59:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2001 7:37:00 PM EDT
I had a similar problem using a DPMS AR w/ 16.5" barrel, using the Souh African PMP .223 ammo. Gun wouldnt chamber it right, or if it did, it would not extract it at all. Had to break the gun down and push out the spent round. Gun shoots most everything else great (usually plinking rounds, such as American Eagle or Winchester) Gun has been correctly headspaced, so outside of bad ammo, I cant think of anything else. Anyone out there have any ideas or feedback on the SA PMP ammo? Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/11/2001 8:58:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By btip: He had both failures to extract, and failures to fire. Was using contract mags, and was shooting several types of ammo, British SS109, Russian (could be part of the problem), and some other surplus That I couldn't really tell what it was.
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The above his probably the key part of his problems. British SS109 is downloaded which causes short stroking issues (failure to extract and/or chamber next round). As for the Russian ammo some have good success and others don't. To accurately diagnose the problem the owner should try new, quality ammo like Am. Eagle or Winchester with 3 or 4 excellent condition USGI or Thermold mags.
Link Posted: 8/11/2001 9:24:53 AM EDT
I have a DPMS ower on my frankengun, and this is a common problem. friend of mine has the same story. We both ended up tightening the mag catch to the point that several thread stuck out of the release button. It works most of the time, even with russian ammo. That stuff is dirty, and the lacquer does seem to stick the cases if you havew a tight chamber. Ar's also need a break-in of about 300 to 500 rounds before they settle down and behave themselves.
Link Posted: 8/11/2001 9:54:56 AM EDT
I'm new to AR's, (I was big into single shots) bought a used Bushmaster at a local gun show. Went over to Wal-Mart and bought some Winchester 5.56 ammo (it was cheap) and took the rifle to the range to see what this rifle was all about. The darn thing would "short cycle" on every round. Then I inspected the fired cases and the primers were falling out! I quit shooting after just 6 or 8 rounds. One of the regulars at the range came over and the first words out of his mouth were "What IS that crap your shootin!". He handed me some .223 ammo (also Winchester) and said to try it. His ammo and my rifle worked just fine, no short cycles, no primers falling out. I thanked him for helping me out (its nice to know there are a lot of people out there willing to help). I was sure that I had bought a bum rifle and I was relieved to find out it was the ammo that was not working. I don't know if the ammo was a bad lot or had been damaged but I won't try that stuff again.
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