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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 7/17/2001 8:57:20 AM EDT
unarmed Americans on American soil! Who were the Americans he attacked?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:59:42 AM EDT
bonus army, WW1 vets marched on washington wanted their bonus early so they wouldn't starve in the depression. they eventually burned them out.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:02:27 AM EDT
During the Gulf War they had a 4-star general on the Tonight Show, I think it was a general named Kelly. Anyway, he bragged that unlike the Iraqi army, the US Army had never moved against its own citizens. I immediately thought of Kent State, couple years later learned about the Bonus March.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:02:48 AM EDT
The 'Bonus Army' made up of WWI veterans that were camped near Washington, DC, in July, 1932, when Americam troops were ordered to vacate their camps. Eric The(Unintended)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:05:39 AM EDT
Who is Douglas Mc [b]Carther[/b] Did he start a hamburger chain?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:08:07 AM EDT
did you really want to know this? or did you already and this was some-type of "i'm more anti-government than you are" trivia question?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:08:36 AM EDT
Who here hasn't read "Unintended COnsequences"?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:11:17 AM EDT
Drats, beaten again! But who actually led the troops against these veterans? Eric The(Huh?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:18:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Drats, beaten again! But who actually led the troops against these veterans? Eric The(Huh?)Hun[>]:)]
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Dolly Patton?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:19:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2001 9:52:54 AM EDT by JIMBEAM]
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:46:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Drats, beaten again! But who actually led the troops against these veterans? Eric The(Huh?)Hun[>]:)]
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Dwight Eisenhower
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:03:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:10:13 AM EDT
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
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The National Guard is just a division of the Army. They are NOT state. Several governors have found that out the hard way, and itgives lie to the anti's claim that Militia means National Guard.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:17:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garryowen: There is an older movie with Don Johnson, I think it's called "Debt of Honor" or something like that...It's about a bunch of CAV guys that get ordereed to do all the shit stuff (kill the horses, attack the vets) and bug-out for Canada...Very good movie...
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That was a cool assed movie. Rent it if you can. I really don't like Don J that much, but this was good. They were odered to kill off the Cav horses when the mecahnized stuff took over. They basicly refused & made for Canada with the horses since they had servrd so well & deserved to live. Good flick.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:17:50 AM EDT
Major Dwight D. Eisenhower was present with MacArthur, but Major George S. Patton was in command of the troops.[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:31:43 AM EDT
Eric, my friend, you are correct. Makes you wonder how that little troika would have played out in later years. Especially if Patton hadn't died when he did.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:09:03 AM EDT
Let me see, General MacArthur led the attack against the Bonus Army and George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower also took part in this attack against fellow Americans. The President at the time was Herbert Hover and he did not order MacArthur to attack the Bonus Army, that was something MacArthur did on his own, but President Hover received the blame for what MacArthur did.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:19:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By erickm: did you really want to know this? or did you already and this was some-type of "i'm more anti-government than you are" trivia question?
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I think this is probably leading to a comparison of what has happened regarding civilians and military in the past and what could happen in the future. Probably in reference to possible weapons seizures and the use of military forces. You know, following orders, using force against citizens, etc.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:33:39 AM EDT
NAH!!!!!!!!!!! The U.S. Military will never be used against American civilians, no way, but if you believe this I can sell you some swamp land in death valley, real cheap!!!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:40:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Major Dwight D. Eisenhower was present with MacArthur, but Major George S. Patton was in command of the troops.[>]:)]
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Oops, it's been a while since I read Unintended Consequences. I guess this means I don't get the million bucks.[:I]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:56:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoople:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Drats, beaten again! But who actually led the troops against these veterans? Eric The(Huh?)Hun[>]:)]
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Dwight Eisenhower
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Patton A host of WWII Generals to be that led the sons of the Bonus Marchers. Irony anyone?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:01:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By andreusan: NAH!!!!!!!!!!! The U.S. Military will never be used against American civilians, no way, but if you believe this I can sell you some swamp land in death valley, real cheap!!!
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I think you misunderstood my reply. I was only pointing out the obvious reference to the use of military force against U.S. citizens in the past. We have all seen replies on prior threads from military personnel and LEOs who state that they would never participate in any actions against U.S. citizens. This stance, while honorable, is not bourne out by history. I think that soldiers will, for the most part, follow orders. That is why we have to prevent the need for those orders to be issued. Not through armed rebellion, but through peaceful political means. Historically, if the orders are issued, soldiers will follow them.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:02:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt:
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
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The National Guard is just a division of the Army. They are NOT state. Several governors have found that out the hard way, and itgives lie to the anti's claim that Militia means National Guard.
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When Kent State happened, they were acting under Ohio state authority, not federal.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:12:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun-fan:
Originally Posted By Garryowen: There is an older movie with Don Johnson, I think it's called "Debt of Honor" or something like that...It's about a bunch of CAV guys that get ordereed to do all the shit stuff (kill the horses, attack the vets) and bug-out for Canada...Very good movie...
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That was a cool assed movie. Rent it if you can. I really don't like Don J that much, but this was good. They were odered to kill off the Cav horses when the mecahnized stuff took over. They basicly refused & made for Canada with the horses since they had servrd so well & deserved to live. Good flick.
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The horses were considered soldiers. They were supposed to retire and be taken care of until they died of natural causes. They were some of the best breeding stock in the country. Fort Stevens near Astoria, Oregon was a Calvary Post and later a Coastal Artillery Post and later still an AC&W base for the Air Force. When I lived there we counted over 200 stalls and one of the largest parade grounds I have ever seen.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 2:33:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRY G:
Originally Posted By Celt:
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
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The National Guard is just a division of the Army. They are NOT state. Several governors have found that out the hard way, and itgives lie to the anti's claim that Militia means National Guard.
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When Kent State happened, they were acting under Ohio state authority, not federal.
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HEY, WERE YOU ONE OF THE SHOOTERS IN THE GUARD, WAS IT FUN???????
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 2:55:04 PM EDT
If it wasn't for the martyr status given to the fallen hippies, maybe most would remember those hippies were giving aid and comfort to an enemy during time of war, which by definition is treason. So honest I feel they deserved it, the biggest problem was they should have been arrested first, tried for treason, convicted than shot. Also one has to wonder about the guards marksmanship, to me it wasn't up to standards.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 3:31:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2001 6:54:29 PM EDT by JIMBEAM]
Hey STLRN All of the students shot were not hippies, one was a ROTC cadet walking in a parking lot several hundred yards from the demonstration.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:01:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By andreusan:
Originally Posted By LARRY G:
Originally Posted By Celt:
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
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The National Guard is just a division of the Army. They are NOT state. Several governors have found that out the hard way, and itgives lie to the anti's claim that Militia means National Guard.
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When Kent State happened, they were acting under Ohio state authority, not federal.
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HEY, WERE YOU ONE OF THE SHOOTERS IN THE GUARD, WAS IT FUN???????
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I wish.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:52:02 PM EDT
Okay and some people walking across the street get hit by cars and killed. Unfortunate things happen all the time, when god says it your time to go, whether it is by bullet, automobile, air plane crash your time is up. As I said you got to look at their marksmenship, maybe with a some better training that round would not have gone astray.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 5:44:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt:
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
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The National Guard is just a division of the Army. They are NOT state. Several governors have found that out the hard way, and itgives lie to the anti's claim that Militia means National Guard.
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Try telling the surviving guardsman of the 29th Infantry Division who landed on Normandy in WWII that they weren't US Army. The U.S. Army is made up of the Active component (AC) and Reserve component (RC). The AC consists of soldiers of the regular army and individual soldiers (and sometimes units) pulled from the RC. The RC consists of the US Army Reserve (USAR) and the Army National Guard (ARNG). Units of the USAR are mainly support units while units of the ARNG are mainly combat. While a governor can use ARNG units in his state to fight fires, flood and riots, he does not have absolute use of the ARNG. President Bush is the Commander in Chief and can call upon both USAR and ARNG units to augment the AC. [u]Main Maneuver Units of the US Army:[/u] INFANTRY DIVISIONS 1st Infantry Division (Mech) "Big Red One" 2d Infantry Division (Medium) "Indianhead" 3d Infantry Division (Mech) "Marne" 4th Infantry Division (Mech) "Ivy" 7th Infantry Division (Light) "Bayonet" 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) "Mountaineer" 24th Infantry Division (Mech) "Victory" 25th Infantry Division (Light) "Tropical Lightning" 28th Infantry Division (Mech)"Keystone"-PAARNG 29th Infantry Division (Light)"Blue & Grey"-VAARNG 34th Infantry Division (Medium)"Red Bull"-MNARNG 35th Infantry Division (Medium)"Santa Fe"-KSARNG 38th Infantry Division (Mech) "Cyclone"-INARNG 40th Infantry Division (Mech) "Sunburst"-CAARNG 42d Infantry Division (Mech) "Rainbow"-NYARNG 82d Airborne Division "All American" 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) "Screaming Eagles" ARMORED DIVISIONS 1st Cavalry Division (Armored) "First Team" 1st Armored Division "Old Ironsides" 49th Armored Division "Lone Star"-TXARNG INFANTRY BRIGADES 27th Infantry Brigade-NYARNG 29th Infantry Brigade-HIARNG 30th Infantry Brigade-NCARNG 39th Infantry Brigade-ARARNG 41th Infantry Brigade-ORARNG 45th Infantry Brigade-OKARNG 53rd Infantry Brigade-FLARNG 76th Infantry Brigade-INARNG 81st Infantry Brigade-WAARNG 92d Infantry Brigade-PRARNG 172d Infantry Brigade 173d Infantry Brigade 218th Infantry Brigade-SCARNG 256th Infantry Brigade-LAARNG ARMORED BRIGADES 31st Armored Brigade-ALARNG 116th Cavalry Brigade-IDARNG 155th Armored Brigade-MSARNG ARMORED CAVALRY REGIMENTS 2nd ACR "Always Ready" 3rd ACR "Brave Rifles" 11th ACR "Black Horse" 278th ACR "Volunteers"-TNARNG
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 6:41:56 PM EDT
THE SAD TALE OF THE BONUS MARCHERS [url]http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 1:24:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By blkbeard: THE SAD TALE OF THE BONUS MARCHERS [url]http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm[/url]
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Shame of it, is when someones brings it forward to use as an example of how the military is used against the citizens, some who are in the military or reserves, become enraged, calling it dishonorable to make such examples, they think the average American is stupid, this is good! They will become even more pissed as I post more!!!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:15:32 AM EDT
General Douglas MacArthur and General George S. Patton both came from wealthy, politically connected Elitist Families. If given the Order to attack WWI Vets, being that said Vets were composed of the "little people", the Peasants, the Elite Classes would have no problem carrying out such and order. After all, can't have the Peasants up in Revolt now, can we?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:22:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowser: General Douglas MacArthur and General George S. Patton both came from wealthy, politically connected Elitist Families. If given the Order to attack WWI Vets, being that said Vets were composed of the "little people", the Peasants, the Elite Classes would have no problem carrying out such and order. After all, can't have the Peasants up in Revolt now, can we?
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Kind of, says it all!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:35:42 AM EDT
I have no problem if someone mentions history. Everyone has to face what happened in the past. What I have a problem with is a person, who insinuates military experience, when queried about it they don't respond or say it is too hush-hush. Through their writing you can tell if they do have military training they have very little. Basically I hate people who have all the hall marks of a phony.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:36:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:44:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter:
Originally Posted By andreusan:
Originally Posted By blkbeard: THE SAD TALE OF THE BONUS MARCHERS [url]http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm[/url]
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Shame of it, is when someones brings it forward to use as an example of how the military is used against the citizens, some who are in the military or reserves, become enraged, calling it dishonorable to make such examples, they think the average American is stupid, this is good! They will become even more pissed as I post more!!!!
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The only dishonorable thing is that it happened, and most don't know of it. Do I think it ever will again? Nope.... many different circumstances now. Soldiers are, for one, much better educated then they were at that time. Another thing, most are gunowners themselves, this holds true even more so for the reserve componets. They are also trained more to think for themselves and make the right moral choice. Just becasue of one incident in the 30's does not mean that everything the military does is aimed at you or any US citizens, no more than a couple acts of domestic terrorism mean that everyone in a militia is out to kill children.
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What about the military presence at let's say WACO, RUBY RIDGE, ANDREWS N.C., to name a few, which you so carefull avoid! Does STATE SPONSORED DOMESTIC TERRORISM ring a bell?? Kind of begs the question: Were you one of them?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:47:31 AM EDT
Hey, grand shooter, I believe it was your post about who you thought was in charge of the attack on the vets, is missing, why?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:23:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:26:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 8:10:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: If it wasn't for the martyr status given to the fallen hippies, maybe most would remember those hippies were giving aid and comfort to an enemy during time of war, which by definition is treason. So honest I feel they deserved it, the biggest problem was they should have been arrested first, tried for treason, convicted than shot. Also one has to wonder about the guards marksmanship, to me it wasn't up to standards.
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Wrong.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 12:40:19 AM EDT
Bush Hamster, ya forgot about 2AD "Hell on Wheels".........Don't feel too bad, though; I was in 1CD, and 2AD is a bunch of schmoes, anyway. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 1:16:23 AM EDT
After reading through the pissing matches and the rhetoric of the anti-military and anti-government garbage spewers, I've come to one inescapable conclusion...... I've never heard of the "Bonus Army" or their plight before, and I wonder why. Must not be "politically correct". I also wonder how those I've called "hero's" could have taken part in the action. Part of that question was already answered. The thread started well. This is good topic and deserves all the respect, enlightenment and debates the intelligent people here can afford. Just another inter-thread rant.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 2:41:32 AM EDT
I guess Vo Nguyen Gaip (you know who he was right) was wrong when he said that.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 3:19:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter:
Originally Posted By andreusan: What about the military presence at let's say WACO, RUBY RIDGE, ANDREWS N.C., to name a few, which you so carefull avoid! Does STATE SPONSORED DOMESTIC TERRORISM ring a bell?? Kind of begs the question: Were you one of them?
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Waco.. a couple of advisers for sure, advisors are legal. I have seen claims of more, but no proof yet... do you have any? Ruby Ridge... I saw none, heard of none..... I know they took some APC's from the gaurd for the feds to use, but they are gov property anyway. Andrews.... just down the road from me, literaly. I saw none around here with the exception of a handful of NG chopper pilots, who were on state duty being payed by the state as state employees. And I kept a very close eye on that whole deal. The ineptitude of the FBI still makes me laugh, they couldn't find a battlship in a 10 acre plot of desert! And... nope.
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I respond to you, because you have answered my questions answered with a level head! However I do not agree with most of your response: Name one state the the ARNG is paid with state funds, (state check or voucher)! I know all member of the ARNG have DOD ID cards not issued state ID cards! I know the pay comes from DOD throght the DA or DAF, so NO state paychecks or vouchers would even exist! I know that all equipment used by any ARNG is federal property, that is why the equipment is not required to be registered within state requirements! I'd even bet that a good portion of the LEO personnel used in all these actions mentioned, "are in fact members of the U.S. Military Reserve components, thus they are part of the U.S. military, and they are LEO's!" If you can disprove the above please, do so! I am happy to know you were not one of them, your word is good enough for me, and I do not know you really!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 6:49:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Originally Posted By andreusan:
Originally Posted By LARRY G:
Originally Posted By Celt:
The people that shot students at Kent were Ohio National Guard not US Army.
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The National Guard is just a division of the Army. They are NOT state. Several governors have found that out the hard way, and itgives lie to the anti's claim that Militia means National Guard.
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When Kent State happened, they were acting under Ohio state authority, not federal.
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HEY, WERE YOU ONE OF THE SHOOTERS IN THE GUARD, WAS IT FUN???????
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I wish.
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Final Score: Ohio State National Guard 4 Kent State 0 Don't throw stones and bottles at people with guns. Jay Arizona (formerly Ohio)
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 6:56:15 AM EDT
Those Kent State students and MANY a palestinian shared the same dying thoughts: "Shit, I shouldn't have thrown those rocks at the guys with the guns....."
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 12:37:45 PM EDT
Actually the state pays for part of the cost of the Nation Guard. The only reason I know this, is from receiving hate mail from a state, when a NG Officer in a school (were he was placed on active duty to attend) couldn't turn in gear on time in order to execute orders back to the state. Apparently him not detaching on time, at that close to end of the FY would have been more than the states budget allows.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 4:29:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2001 6:00:09 PM EDT by CPL_Punishment]
Originally Posted By MelonPopper: Bush Hamster, ya forgot about 2AD "Hell on Wheels".........Don't feel too bad, though; I was in 1CD, and 2AD is a bunch of schmoes, anyway. [:D]
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Sadly, soon after the Gulf War, President Clinton inactivated the 2nd Armored Division along with the: 3rd Armored Division "Spearhead"; 5th Infantry Division (Mech) "Red Diamond"; 6th Infantry Division (Light) "Sight-Seeing Sixth"; 7th Infantry Division (Light) "Bayonet"; 8th Infantry Division (Mech) "Pathfinder"; 9th Infantry Division (Motorized) "Old Reliables"; and the 24th Infantry Division (Mech) "Victory". The Clinton administration also inactivated two ARNG divisions... I dont know which ones. However, in the late 1990s, the Army took three light infantry brigades of the ARNG and reactivated the 7th LID. The Army also took three mechanized ARNG brigades and reactivated the 24th Mech. Both the 7th and 24th are ARNG now but with an active duty divisional command and staff.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 5:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2001 5:41:43 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
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