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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/18/2001 10:25:06 AM EDT
What steps do you all think we should take as proud American's to protect the 2nd Amendment. Also how how can we go about overturning the laws that are in clear violation of it. Lets get some good fedback on this subject. This is a subject that really matters to all of us.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 10:29:54 AM EDT
hard question if people answer it without going into all this SHTF crap....it wil probably cost us a lot of blood. ill hope and pray for peace but prepair for war....
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 3:51:32 PM EDT
We should ALL run for political office as "third party" candidates and bring up the Second Amendment at every single debate and interview, and submit pro-gun statements to every voter guide. If any of us have the connections to run as major party candidates, that's great. But others should still be sitting around the debate table as Libertarians and Constitution Party candidates (or heck, let's trick the Green Party into sponsoring us!) and bring the whole centerline of the discussion WAY over to our side. What better way to influence public opinion than to get all sorts of free media access right when the public is paying the most attention to the issues? How better to make the Second Amendment seem important to average people than to have the candidates fighting over who's the most pro-gun?
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:10:50 PM EDT
We should all be a part of the same third party so we don't get railroaded like all the other third parties. We need to have an auto maker on our side to shell out the really big bucks that gets people elected. Also we should refuse campaign funds from the government so we wouldn't be subject to campaign finance laws, that way the auto maker could just buy us into office, then we repay the favor somehow.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:14:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2001 4:14:32 PM EDT by KBaker]
First you have to overcome 40 years of government sponsored brainwashing, AKA "public schooling". Face it, the vast majority of people out there don't understand the origins of our government and don't care. They haven't been taught. Generation after generation received less and less education in history, civics, logic & law until now very, very few truly understand the concepts of unalienable rights and individual freedom. Of course, along with this went the equally important concept of individual responsibility. That's a helluva big obstacle to overcome. If you want to read a really excellent example of just how far down we've gone, I strongly recommend California State Senator Tom McClintock's speech [i][b]Freedom and Firearms[/i][/b]: [url]http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/article_detail.asp?PID=189[/url]. Specifically the quoted comments of Senator Kuehl. You want to change things? Educate. Educate yourself, then educate others. It's the single most important and hardest thing to do, because people really seem to prefer to be ignorant. Thinking requires work. Ignorance is easier. Politicians count on it. They know it's easier to lead when no one is asking "why?". I may need a tinfoil hat, but I've become convinced that the decline in the education system is too insidious to have been a simple accident. [sniper] (Edited because I STILL can't type)
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:18:48 PM EDT
KBaker I agree 100%. That's why I say we do it the old fashioned, time honored way, and just buy ourselves in, worked for Clinton (& Bush for that matter).
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:23:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANS SUPPLY: What steps do you all think we should take as proud American's to protect the 2nd Amendment. Also how how can we go about overturning the laws that are in clear violation of it. Lets get some good fedback on this subject. This is a subject that really matters to all of us.
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The answer is obvious isn't it? Shutdown WalMart.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:31:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Slave 1: KBaker I agree 100%. That's why I say we do it the old fashioned, time honored way, and just buy ourselves in, worked for Clinton (& Bush for that matter).
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Unfortunately we [i]can't[/i] buy ourselves in. We don't have enough money. Of the 70+ million gun owners, you'd be hard-pressed to find 5 million who really care about the Constitution. They're victims of the education system too. Of those 5 million, you won't get more than 3 million to agree on anything really important - we're just too individualistic. Look at the NRA - 4 million members, but how many say "COMPROMISE!" and how many say "[red]N[/red]ot [red]R[/red]elevant [red]A[/red]nymore!"? Sure, if Bill Gates was an avid supporter of the Second Amendment we'd have it whipped. Unfortunately, rich people never like to see armed peasants. It encourages uprisings and makes tax collection difficult. [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:54:06 PM EDT
Personnaly I think things are to far gone to save the 2nd ammendment as far as the politicians go. I truly believe that most politicians really no longer care about what we want or think. So the best way to save it would be for each of us to educate as many people as we can about guns and the 2nd on a one to one basis. Most, but not all adults are lost cause on this subject. So we must focus on the children. Take as many young people shooting with you, educate them about guns and the 2nd. Also focus on taking girls or ladies shooting, because they have the greatest impact on kids when they are growing up. By doing this we will have more people willing to partake in civil disobedience years from now when the politicians try to completely demolish the 2nd. I also suggest buying whatever you can right now! Not just guns but also stockpiling of ammo, spareparts and learn reloading. Politicians are a lost cause, it must become the will of the people!! sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 4:56:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANS SUPPLY: What steps do you all think we should take as proud American's to protect the 2nd Amendment. Also how how can we go about overturning the laws that are in clear violation of it.
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First of all, there is no easy answer to this problem. Basically (1) the easist thing is to prevent anti-gun politicians from taking office, (2) preventing laws from passing in the first place, (3) the hardest(requiring the greatest time and effort), is to reverse or rescind the laws. The problem of registered voters. Of all the people who are eligible to vote, only 50% actually register. Out of all the registered voters, only 50% of them at best actually vote. So only 25% of the eligible voters actually vote. Just joining the NRA and donating to ILA/PVF is not enough. Their resources are finite and they can not be everywhere everyplace. How many gun owners are activists? i.e. volunteer to work for a pro-gun or against an ant-gun candidate. A lot of us are too buy working, with family etc. is the typical explanation. Gripping amoung ourselves is no help, even though it makes us feel better, the old "misery loves company." I have worked many campaigns, and many times I am the only gun person on a campaign doing phone banking and stuffing envelopes. This is just plain boring drudgery, but it has to be done.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 5:01:03 PM EDT
Why an auto maker. I think we could raise a ton from gun manufactures. Though it might look kinda bad. Maybe we could hide the transactions???
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 5:04:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 5:26:58 PM EDT
Auto's make up 50% of our economy either directly (sales, parts, etc.) or indirectly (insurance, gas, etc.). When they speak people listen. If Ford or GMC says hey we're backing this third party then the oil companies would have a very large incentive to go along with them since most of their business happens because of them. As for a gun company, just not enough cash. They have a hard enough time just fighting these lawsuits and staying in business. We're talking about 100's of millions of dollars here.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 5:40:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2001 5:40:47 PM EDT by oneshot1kill]
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 5:48:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 5:50:41 PM EDT
I still think we got at least a 50/50 chance of fixing things up tolerable by peaceful political means, if we are willing to give it a good effort. Especially if the Supreme Court would ever help us out a little. And if we should finally fail and have to resort to civil disobedience or worse, we need the propaganda value of being able to say that we gave the system our best shot. We WILL need the support, or at least the tolerance, of a whole lot of people who never will be interested in shooting or owning guns. We need to make ourselves worthy of that, and armor ourselves against the propaganda of those opposing us. Of course I agree that we should be buying large quantities of guns, ammo, powder, primers, brass, bullets, reloading dies, bullet molds, etc. That's a good thing no matter how you look at it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 6:13:06 PM EDT
We must do what ever we can to market to kids. We must excite their natural interest in firearms even if it means turning child against parent. Talk guns to kids. Show guns to kids. When you go to the grocery store move gun magazines to the children's section of the magazine racks. Most all kids love guns until their parents train them otherwise.
Link Posted: 6/18/2001 6:35:48 PM EDT
Convince all of the gun manufacturers to tell the f---ing government that they will cease to sell guns to any and all agencies of the government if the government continues its assault on the 2nd Ammendment. What are they going to do without Colt, Glock, Bennelli, Bushmaster etc.?... build their own manufacturing plants. Can't wait to see the non-working guns the government makes!!!
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 6:51:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LTVN68: Convince all of the gun manufacturers to tell the f---ing government that they will cease to sell guns to any and all agencies of the government if the government continues its assault on the 2nd Ammendment. What are they going to do without Colt, Glock, Bennelli, Bushmaster etc.?... build their own manufacturing plants. Can't wait to see the non-working guns the government makes!!!
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I am not an expert at U.S. firearms history, but the U.S. govt was in the firearms developement/manufacturing with a number of arsenels/facilities. It was only in recent memory that the Springfield Armoury was actually sold to the Reese family. I believe the only facility that is still 100% U.S. govt owned is the Lake City ammunition facility, which is run by Winchester under contract from the U.S. govt. I think as of now FN manufacturing is forbidden to manufacture for the civilian market by government contract. Liberty Ship: This is a long process for the anti-gunners. If you notice all of the laws are typically "aimed" at the next generation of people and not the current. It is minimally aimed at you or I, since we have our firearms already.
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 7:20:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 7:38:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By burn: hard question if people answer it without going into all this SHTF crap....it wil probably cost us a lot of blood. ill hope and pray for peace but prepair for war....
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[left]If they banned all guns the majority of gunowner's will hand over there guns now some will be defient but few and very far between. now ive seen some of your guy's picture's on this board that some are very well off(money wise), Now would you give all this up and your life for a weapon? i really don't think you will and i really don't think most of us will make ourself's target's overnight, Has for me I have been FUCKED over by too many people to defend anything. one last word you owe it to yourself to make and build your own weapon's out of common material's. thay can put you in jail and confenscate weapon's but they cannot take you mind away knowledge is power![/left]
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 7:43:04 AM EDT
Follow the money/control trail. Years ago prior to the 1968 gca the big guy on the block was the NRA especially with the southern delegation. There was lots of money, and they did not worry. When I was in school, I can remember a liberal professor talking about the issue, and he stated that the plan was for piece by piece dismantling of the 2nd. This was going to be done through public education, and a constant influx of money as various events happened in the country. Now the anti's have an unlimited pocketbook, and we continue to shop at and support the very enemy that is trying to take our rights. Liberalism is insidious in that it uses techniques to convince the masses that what they are asking for is the only sane and proper way. How do we educate the masses, perhaps working one person at a time, and teaching what the Bill of Rights when attached to the Constitution was all about. Perhaps not financially supporting those who use our money against us. I know there are sites out there that define who these people, groups, and businesses are. Maybe the next time you want to go to a show, and a flamming liberal who spouts off about gun control is blazing away on the previews, look somewhere else. If they win this fight, then we are or our descendants are doomed to a life under tryany and eventually the genocide of large groups of people as history has borne out.
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 9:03:23 AM EDT
The only step needed is to petition the humanitarian UN asking for assistance in helping secure our freedoms.
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 10:30:33 AM EDT
Yup, I'm pretty sure that a few intelligent and concerned Romans asked what they could do to save the Empire. Bread and circuses, baby! BTW, who won the NBA Superbowl?
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 10:54:29 AM EDT
Thanks for all the sugestions guys. Now I'll give my opinion on what it will take. We have got to get people in the right positions. THE MEDIA!!! If we control it and what it sends out we can't go wrong. Look at the Liberals. They Currently control the media and look at what they have been able to do with it. 1.Bill Clinton served 2 terms and robbed use blind and He got away with it. 2.No accountability for the actions of people in power. 3.The majority of Americans don't care about our political system because it is so corrupt, so in steps John McCain. People are so brainwashed that they don't see him for what he is. 4.Nazis Like Shumer and Feinstein,Liberman and Kennedy Are seen as trying to work for the good of the People. If we controlled the media or at least held those who run it accountable we could turn this whole country around and get it headed in the right direction. If it is true that the majority of Americans are just like sheep then I say we need to have few of our guys as shepards. What do you all think of my Idea? Am I nuts or do you think it can be pulled off?
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 11:03:27 AM EDT
i am for education. knowledge is power, ignorance equals slavery of the mind. if we could each reach out to one anti, or one "fence-sitter", think of the results: one conversion per gun owner = 80 million new pro-gunners! then, if all else fails, i am for an escalation of tactics, according to threat level, for instance, for every gun law passed that threatens our liberty, the USA will recieve one day of general strikes! read the "how do you make $$$" post, WE ARE EVERYWHERE!!! we alone, just by staying home one day, could cripple the economy, the result will be that any congressman will think more than twice about how to vote. plus we should make it painfully clear to the powers that be, that if they want to get down and dirty, and if they are seeking a fight, then a low-down-dirty fight they will get. i think that way too many of us sit and think, man, that new law sucks, but i still have this, or boy, that new law is gonna cost me, but it won't affect me yet, only later. or, i won't lose my job/wife/house/life for this - there are plenty of gun-owners who will make the stand for me.... WRONG! - united we stand, DIVIDED we fall. WHERE IS OUR LINE IN THE SAND, AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN THEY CROSS IT???
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 11:07:02 AM EDT
One thing that can be done is to buy a firearm on July 9th, to protest the UN's "Small Arms Destruction Day" where they will be destroying firearms all over the world. In protest July 9th is known to gun owners as a National Gun Buying Day.
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 11:36:20 AM EDT
I think we should -NOT vote -NOT join the NRA -NOT contribute to the NRA-ILA -NOT join the GOA, CCRKBA, JPFO, etc -NOT write letters to our elected representives -NOT write letters to the editor -sit at home and complain about the NRA selling out or not "doing something" about X, Y, Z etc.. -wonder why the above isn't helping.
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 2:30:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 3:17:13 PM EDT
SPORTSMANS and oneshot, i agree that we need the media, but will that be enough? i mentioned in my post on page one the tactic of divide and conquer, the media may show less bias in cool states like PA, but that's ok to the anti's, because they are banning AR's in CA !! with ACTS like these, they move away from the media, and onto the slippery slope of LEGAL PRECIDENT. their "line in the sand" is when children are endangered. THIS is what gets Million Mommers off the couch, into the media and eventually into the law books. what is our line in the sand? when will we ACT, in concert, in a way that really gets the point across. what will our message to the media be, once we have use of it? BTW, i think i'll get one of those evil "black rifles" on july 9th !! [beer]
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 4:01:05 PM EDT
Easy, Vote! The Anti-gun politicians weren't just handed their seats.
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 4:15:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2001 4:13:16 PM EDT by Hank]
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 9:32:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Originally Posted By SPORTSMANS SUPPLY: What steps do you all think we should take as proud American's to protect the 2nd Amendment. Also how how can we go about overturning the laws that are in clear violation of it. Lets get some good fedback on this subject. This is a subject that really matters to all of us.
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The answer is obvious isn't it? Shutdown WalMart.
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What is WRONG with Wal-mart. They have been a "supplier" of mine for years, especially after hunting season, when I see 20ga. slugs and buckshot going for a buck a box. 9mm is reasonable there too (at least compared to other brick and mortar stores in my area). I'm just wondering what is the deal with everyone hating Wal-mart. 90% of you shop there anyways. I'm not trying to defend the place, I just sincerely want to know everyone's beef. (no, I've NEVER had to present any 'firearms owner I.D. card' either) I hate Target, myself, because when I went in to ask if they had any ammo, the clerk said "nope. no guns. no ammo. nobody gets hurt around here."
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 9:41:08 PM EDT
We should all move to a seperate island and start our own country. tis the only way colonial lib
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 9:51:48 PM EDT
To answer the original question of this thread, I suggest trying to take a new (and non-gun) person shooting with you every couple of months. Get them to love the sport. Some may not, but you may find at least one person who you can "convert". Getting more people informed is the key, if you want to avoid bedlam in the streets one day. You need to insure that children and adults learn that gun control is a farce. I think the church and religion could be effective as well. HOW this is done is rather difficult, but if we can rally conservative ministers to speak on how guns are NOT the problem, but people's actions, there may be some in their flocks who may be "on the fence" and will come over to our side (caution: don't be too zealous, or the government may burn down your church) [}:)] I also think we should throw support behind every gun owner's group that is out there (including the NRA). Possibly trying to get the smaller groups more organized and form a federation that can rival the size of the NRA, yet take a more aggressive stance in stopping the threat of gun confiscation. How about finding corporate sponsorship? This is VERY difficult, but if Shaq Oneill can have a limited edition SUV named after him, then how one named after some REAL heroes. Maybe Charlton Heston, Sgt. York, Audie Murphie, etc. Rally our Vets! They have fought for this country before, and many know how important the Second Amendment is to our liberty. If nothing else, look to re-emerse individual vets into the shooting sports, for the nostalgia alone may interest them at first, but they will grow to love and defend their right to bear arms (not post-ban arms, but ALL arms). Hope this is what you were looking for, Urban [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 9:56:43 PM EDT
Sorry Hank, I didn't see a second page and did not mean to restate alot of what you said. [}:)] STOCKPILE! [}:)] Sorry, guess you sorta said that, too [;)]
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 11:27:40 PM EDT
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!"
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