poke a hole in the line and hold a jug to it. you will be fine.

Quoted: R12 Freon is HEAVIER that air.  It SINKS to low spats and disperses.  The only danger from R12 is that it does displace oxygen, and you can asphixiate IF you are in an unvented low spot.  Now kindly explain to me how the hell it gets up to the upper atmosphere in the first place?  There has been a 'hole' in the ozone layer ofer the south pole every spring, b/c it takes SUNLIGHT to create ozone!  By the end of Antarctica's 'summer' the hole is GONE!!!   One volcano eruption dumps more ozone inhibitors into the atmosphere that all of the regrigerant ever manufactured. DuPont is the org. that is funding the 'ozone hole' research!!!  Do your homework!!   Protus, you can sniff freon all day long and all you will get is a headache.  It is inert, that is why it was so popular. Ops  (Master HVAC Mechanic, Universal certified, and licensed to proctor the damn college level test you need to pass to handle the new junk tha passes for refrigerant.)

That's nice...

Dangerous or not, if you vented to air in front of a busybody or an EPA inspector how long would you have your cert and/or freedom?

Worth the risk?

Quoted: LOL some real great advice in this thread Just think how much has been dumped into the atmosphere... one more isn't going to make a bit of diffrence.... The damage has already been done!   WTF do they do with it after they suck it out?    Bottle it up and jettison it into space?

It's called a reclaimation unit for a reason, it can be recycled/refined for use in other applications.

Quoted:
I have a large uprigt freezer that is built with a key lock in it. It is really old but works. I want to convert it into a hidden gunsafe.

The sheves in the freezer seem to be tubular and eminate cold. I want to cut them out, but I am unsure if some type of cooling element (freon) is in them.

How can I do this safely? Any ideas?


edited to comply with "Leave no Trace"

Quoted: Quoted: Take it outside and poke a pinhole in the line near the compressor. Balming Knowingly venting refrigerant is a $27,500 fine. Make sure your neighbor doesn't see you. Refrigerant displaces oxygen. Make sure you don't die.

We cannot vent ANY R12 under penalty of fine. But Chinese electronic fab plants boil off tons of the crap daily and no one cares.

Quoted: DANGER! Depending on how old it is, it may have Ammonia in it. Ammonia IS a listed poison, and is bad shit, Maynard. Be cautious.

LMAO, I thought the same thing -- but don't figure there are many consumer based applications for ammonia refrigeration after the 1970's.

If it is ammonia based, we may have a possible Darwin Award Winner on our hands.......

Quoted: The freon and the rest of the Chloroflourocarbon bullshi'ite scare about it hurting the ozone was a crock of crap concocted by the manufacturer DuPonte (french of course) when their patent ran out on it and they needed to corner the market on refrigerant again.

That would be tough to believe since there was and is still no drop in replacement for most refrigerants, including R-12 and R-22. My first exposure to puron was at least 7 years after I got my Universal cert.
No reason why some other company can't make  a substitute of there own.
Don't get caught venting it. The fines are steep and incentives for whistle blowers also.

Quoted: Quoted: The freon and the rest of the Chloroflourocarbon bullshi'ite scare about it hurting the ozone was a crock of crap concocted by the manufacturer DuPonte (french of course) when their patent ran out on it and they needed to corner the market on refrigerant again. That would be tough to believe since there was and is still no drop in replacement for most refrigerants, including R-12 and R-22

Not true.  There are plenty of drop in replacements for R-12.  R-409A, R-414B (Hot Shot) and Freeze-12 to name a few.  As to the R-22.  There is no reason for a drop in replacement for R-22 cause there is still tons of that stuff around cheap and

"Phaseout Schedule for HCFCs Including R-22
Under the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the U.S. agreed to meet certain obligations by specific dates that will affect the residential heat pump and air-conditioning industry:

January 1, 2004:
In accordance with the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the amount of all HCFCs that can be produced nationwide must be reduced by 35% by 2004. In order to achieve this goal, the U.S. is ceasing production of HCFC-141b, the most ozone-damaging of this class of chemicals, on January 1, 2003. This production ban will greatly reduce nationwide use of HCFCs as a group, making it likely that the 2004 deadline will have a minimal effect on R-22 supplies.

January 1, 2010:
After 2010, chemical manufacturers may still produce R-22 to service existing equipment, but not for use in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers will only be able to use pre-existing supplies of R-22 to produce new air conditioners and heat pumps. These existing supplies would include R-22 recovered from existing equipment and recycled.

January 1, 2020:
Use of existing refrigerant, including refrigerant that has been recovered and recycled, will be allowed beyond 2020 to service existing systems, but chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to produce R-22 to service existing air conditioners and heat pumps." Link.

Hey, you forgot 416-a. My favorite r-12 drop-in. Actually works better than 12. As for somebody saying 12 is a nerve gas was not too far off. Expose 12 to a open flame and you will produce phosegene gas which was used as a nerve agent in ww1. Verrry nasty.

My god some of you people need help.

Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? Do you hysterical people really think that venting a tiny amount of Freon out of a freezer will do ANYTHING when MILLIONS of A/C units, freezers, propellants, etc. are being vented daily ALL OVER the world? Good grief you people sound like liberals.


Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you.


This Freon scare is no different the than idiots who go around screaming that oil will run out in less than 50 years, that the air wouldn't be breathable by the year 2000, and similar hysterical nonsense.

Get a grip!

Quoted: Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you.

Good advice.....

Sure the refrigerant is freon?

Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? Do you hysterical people really think that venting a tiny amount of Freon out of a freezer will do ANYTHING when MILLIONS of A/C units, freezers, propellants, etc. are being vented daily ALL OVER the world? Good grief you people sound like liberals.

I'm not sure I sense any hysterics in this thread, well not until you got here to HYSTERICALLY chastise us.

[

Quoted: Quoted: Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you. Good advice..... Sure the refrigerant is freon?

If not sure, then vent outside. Use common sense, if the unit is 50 years old, THEN take it to some place that will do it safely.


BTW, Sgtar15 was quite hysterical, even if in sarcasm as were all the people screaming about how dangerous it is and how horrible it is for the world. That would require a roll of the eyes. Sheesh.

Quoted: BTW, Sgtar15 was quite hysterical, even if in sarcasm as were all the people screaming about how dangerous it is and how horrible it is for the world. That would require a roll of the eyes. Sheesh.

Sarge gets hysterical over going to the supermarket.....this is no surprise.

It is, and can be, dangerous to folks who don't have a clue about refrigeration.

The expelling gas and vapor is enough to give you quite a good frostburn if you aren't careful, hmm??

Quoted: ETA - I think the "willfull discharge" probably  applies to service techs and licensed shops that choose to disregard the laws they studied to pass the required test for certification, as opposed to Joe Fixit, but that's JMHO.

Negative..applies to anyone who vents refrigerant.

Good grief you people sound like liberals.

Yep.  We've run the gamit here from it's dangerous to, harmful to the environment, and finally, OMG it's illegal.  

it might even be (gasp) ammonia.  Ban refrigerators.  

Quoted: Good grief you people sound like liberals. Yep.  We've run the gamit here from it's dangerous to, harmful to the environment, and finally, OMG it's illegal.   it might even be (gasp) ammonia.  Ban refrigerators.

Ironically enough, it CAN be dangerous to a novice.  It IS illegal to vent without proper equipment.  It COULD be ammonia under pressure.

3 out of 4 isn't bad....

What ever happend to the 'Good Old Days' when you could get rid of all your old flourocarbons by just pouring them onto the parking lot?

Place I worked at used to pour the old Trich from the vapor degreaser onto the yard and let it evaporate every Friday when they cleaned out the tank… 20-30 gallons a week for nearly 3 years!

ANdy

Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? Do you hysterical people really think that venting a tiny amount of Freon out of a freezer will do ANYTHING when MILLIONS of A/C units, freezers, propellants, etc. are being vented daily ALL OVER the world? Good grief you people sound like liberals. Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you. This Freon scare is no different the than idiots who go around screaming that oil will run out in less than 50 years, that the air wouldn't be breathable by the year 2000, and similar hysterical nonsense. Get a grip!

umm before YOU get all  crazed yer info is very wrong.!
24 nations in 1987 sigend the Montreal protocol,,which set standards to cut use and phase out  substances that deplete the Ozone.in 88 the usa /epa set these standards into their regulations.(which turned into the clean air act)
in late 1990 the us with 55 other nations signed an agreement to pahse out  cfc's and hcfc's
beside sthis 12 other nation with canada  pushed phase out to 1997

the chemicals covered by the act
cfc11
cfc12
cfc113
cfc114
cfc115
halons
halon 1211( r-12B1)
halon 1301(r-13b1)
halon 2402 (r-114b2)

as of 1996 all of these have been phased out! hence their price jump..

and as before VENTING is illegal!!!! plain and simple,,it may  be a stupid law BUT its illegal to do so all the same!!

OK forget all this argument about it being bad for the ozone layer or not bad for the ozone layer. Lets get down to brass tacks.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO KNOWINGLY VENT REFRIGERANT INTO THE ATMOSPHERE!!!!

That being said. if you want to do it legally, call a refrigeration guy and ask if he can drain it for you. If I had a customer that asked me to do it I would just charge a $40.00 recovery fee. Hook up the machine and in minutes it is a done deal.

however I do have to add that if you have an R-12 system that is a manual defrost (you have to defrost it yourself) I would keep it in working condition. go to the salvation army and for 50 bucks you can get a POS unit to hatchet it up.

Just my 2 cents

 

Quoted: The sheves in the freezer seem to be tubular and eminate cold.

Refrigeration does not eminate cold... It REMOVES heat. Just a tidbit of info.

Quoted: Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? Do you hysterical people really think that venting a tiny amount of Freon out of a freezer will do ANYTHING when MILLIONS of A/C units, freezers, propellants, etc. are being vented daily ALL OVER the world? Good grief you people sound like liberals. Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you. This Freon scare is no different the than idiots who go around screaming that oil will run out in less than 50 years, that the air wouldn't be breathable by the year 2000, and similar hysterical nonsense. Get a grip! umm before YOU get all  crazed yer info is very wrong.! 24 nations in 1987 sigend the Montreal protocol,,which set standards to cut use and phase out  substances that deplete the Ozone.in 88 the usa /epa set these standards into their regulations.(which turned into the clean air act) in late 1990 the us with 55 other nations signed an agreement to pahse out  cfc's and hcfc's beside sthis 12 other nation with canada  pushed phase out to 1997 the chemicals covered by the act cfc11 cfc12 cfc113 cfc114 cfc115 halons halon 1211( r-12B1) halon 1301(r-13b1) halon 2402 (r-114b2) as of 1996 all of these have been phased out! hence their price jump.. and as before VENTING is illegal!!!! plain and simple,,it may  be a stupid law BUT its illegal to do so all the same!!

I still have HALON extinguishers in both my cars, and some spares! They are waaaaaaaaaay better than anything else on the market…

The ban on HALON extinguishers was dumb!

Environmentalists are just stupid beyond belief……What damages the atmosphere more… two tons of burning automobile or a couple of pounds of HALON gas!

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? Do you hysterical people really think that venting a tiny amount of Freon out of a freezer will do ANYTHING when MILLIONS of A/C units, freezers, propellants, etc. are being vented daily ALL OVER the world? Good grief you people sound like liberals. Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you. This Freon scare is no different the than idiots who go around screaming that oil will run out in less than 50 years, that the air wouldn't be breathable by the year 2000, and similar hysterical nonsense. Get a grip! umm before YOU get all  crazed yer info is very wrong.! 24 nations in 1987 sigend the Montreal protocol,,which set standards to cut use and phase out  substances that deplete the Ozone.in 88 the usa /epa set these standards into their regulations.(which turned into the clean air act) in late 1990 the us with 55 other nations signed an agreement to pahse out  cfc's and hcfc's beside sthis 12 other nation with canada  pushed phase out to 1997 the chemicals covered by the act cfc11 cfc12 cfc113 cfc114 cfc115 halons halon 1211( r-12B1) halon 1301(r-13b1) halon 2402 (r-114b2) as of 1996 all of these have been phased out! hence their price jump.. and as before VENTING is illegal!!!! plain and simple,,it may  be a stupid law BUT its illegal to do so all the same!!

The source of my information must be dated, but the fact remains that the ban on CFCs was and is stupid and most nations do not give a damn. $27,500 fine and up to 15 years in prison for releasing CFC into the air, and a rapist usually walks after 5-10 years. Yes, I see the righteousness of such a law.

Even if the US isn't the only nation to ban CFC, the bottom line is that all this "ozone hole" bullshit is just that. Scientists are whining about global warming despite evidence of cyclical climatic changes throughout the history of the earth. The envionazis whine about oil supplies drying up in 50 years.

Give me a break.

BTW, if you can provide a source for your information I'd appreciate it - not as proof, but more as a source I can look into and get more detailed information on this ban issue.

There are, as stated, probably better options for a disguised gun safe/locker.


I saw a really nice job done once with a water heater..it was plumbed in with false pipes and all.

Quoted: Take it to an auto shop and have them remove it.  They have vacumm machines that do just that. And it is worth some money. SGatr15

That may not be so easy . Older freezers used a few different types of refrigerants
None of which are compatible with R-12 or 134A which is used in automotive applications

I have an identifier that I run on every system before I hook my recovery unit , because
sucking in a blend of another type of refrigerant will contaminate your $8000 machine .
and require you to have the system purged and the contaminated refrigerant destroyed at
$35 a lb .

Quoted: Hey, you forgot 416-a. My favorite r-12 drop-in. Actually works better than 12. As for somebody saying 12 is a nerve gas was not too far off. Expose 12 to a open flame and you will produce phosegene gas which was used as a nerve agent in ww1. Verrry nasty.

Actually there is no EPA approved " Drop In " if you mix it becomes a unusable blend .
which is why I have the identifier . I wont touch a system that’s not 99% pure .
Add to this the fact that each substitute or blend requires a different style of service fitting
and labels by law . No one is immune to being prosecuted as was the case before 1996 .
So be damned careful topping off your system with another refrigerant , because if your
vehicle ends up in a service situation and is found to be contaminated , it's on your ass
even if you didn’t do it . To the Tune of several thousand dollars .

Most shops avoid reporting what they find because the paperwork  is  absurd
And I’m not in business to enforce EPA rules that I’m saddled with   , but there
is a possibility that if a shop contaminates someone’s vehicle and it causes a failure and they
Report the shop , eventually it will be traced back to the origin of the contamination .

Now on to Phosgene , yes it's true that burning R-12 will produce phosgene gas ,
but it's a 10,000 to 1 ratio . Or 10,000 lbs of R-12 to make 1lb of mustard gas .

Quoted: Hey, you forgot 416-a. My favorite r-12 drop-in. Actually works better than 12. As for somebody saying 12 is a nerve gas was not too far off. Expose 12 to a open flame and you will produce phosegene gas which was used as a nerve agent in ww1. Verrry nasty.

416A?  I know of 414A but I havent heard of 416A

Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12?

not true
Was just talking to someone from england....they have EVEN stiffer fines and laws regarding freon....
Here we can capture it into a recovery bag and then hook that up to our recovery unit...in England they must vent directly into the recovery unit (so it must be brought to every call)

Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12?

It's called the Montreal Protocol , and most industrialized countries signed it .
But yes R-12 is still produced in 3rd world countries , with Mexico leading the pack
producing millions of lbs a year .  

You can find it on E-bay , but if you get caught with it , it's a heavy fine .
Not to mention it's selling for 50x what it sells for in Mexico .

Here is a Picture of some from an Professional Auto Tech forum I belong to .

You can find it on E-bay , but if you get caught with it , it's a heavy fine . Not to mention it's selling for 50x what it sells for in Mexico .

only if the person buying it does not have a license and if the person selling does not check for a license
we have bought off of ebay...had to fax a copy of the license to the seller

Quoted:   You can find it on E-bay , but if you get caught with it , it's a heavy fine . Not to mention it's selling for 50x what it sells for in Mexico . only if the person buying it does not have a license and if the person selling does not check for a license we have bought off of ebay...had to fax a copy of the license to the seller

The can in the picture above was bought with a valid MACS license , but it still
cost the shop $5000 , which was later dropped but they lost their license to
service AC for a year . They are in AZ , so you can imagine that taking $5K fine
would have been cheaper .

They traced it back to the shop because they did submit a copy of their license to the seller who got popped from his E-bay ad .

  From a 19 year A/C refrigeration tech..

 If you listen to the ones, saying axe it or Tannerite it. Then your a dumb motherfucker too.

 If you want more info go to these people.  EPA


  If you think the ozone, is the only refrigerant taboo. Then go here. CDC

Freon By Mary Bellis

Refrigerators from the late 1800s until 1929 used the toxic gases, ammonia (NH3), methyl chloride (CH3Cl), and sulfur dioxide (SO2), as refrigerants. Several fatal accidents occurred in the 1920s because of methyl chloride leakage from refrigerators. People started leaving their refrigerators in their backyards. A collaborative effort began between three American corporations, Frigidaire, General Motors and DuPont to search for a less dangerous method of refrigeration.

In 1928, Thomas Midgley, Jr. aided by Charles Franklin Kettering invented a "miracle compound" called Freon. Freon represents several different chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, which are used in commerce and industry. The CFCs are a group of aliphatic organic compounds containing the elements carbon and fluorine, and, in many cases, other halogens (especially chlorine) and hydrogen. Freons are colorless, odorless, nonflammable, noncorrosive gases or liquids.

Side Note: Charles Franklin Kettering invented the first electric automobile ignition system. He was also the vice-president of the General Motors Research Corporation from 1920 to 1948. General Motors' scientist, Thomas Midgley invented leaded (ethyl) gasoline.

Thomas Midgley was chosen by Charles Franklin Kettering to head the research into the new refrigerants. Frigidaire was issued the first patent, US#1,886,339, for the formula for CFCs on December 31, 1928.

In 1930, General Motors and DuPont formed the Kinetic Chemical Company to produce Freon. By 1935, Frigidaire and its competitors had sold 8 million new refrigerators in the United States using Freon made by the Kinetic Chemical Company. In 1932, the Carrier Engineering Corporation used Freon in the world's first self-contained home air conditioning unit, called an "Atmospheric Cabinet".

Side Note: The trade name Freon ® is a registered trademark belonging to E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Company (DuPont).

Because Freon is non-toxic, it eliminated the danger posed by refrigerator leaks. In just a few years, compressor refrigerators using Freon would become the standard for almost all home kitchens. In 1930, Thomas Midgley held a demonstration of the physical properties of Freon for the American Chemical Society by inhaling a lung-full of the new wonder gas and breathing it out onto a candle flame, which was extinguished, thus showing the gas's non-toxicity and non-flammable properties. Only decades later did people realize that such chlorofluorocarbons endangered the ozone layer of the entire planet.

Side Note: CFCs, or Freon, are now infamous for greatly adding to the depletion of the earth's ozone shield. Leaded gasoline is also a major pollutant, and Thomas Midgley secretly suffered from lead poisoning because of his invention, a fact he kept hidden from the public.

Thomas Midgley discoveries ranged from a way of getting salt into popcorn before it was popped, to a method for treating the contents of a swimming pool so that people could swim farther underwater.
about.com

Quoted: Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? not true Was just talking to someone from england....they have EVEN stiffer fines and laws regarding freon.... Here we can capture it into a recovery bag and then hook that up to our recovery unit...in England they must vent directly into the recovery unit (so it must be brought to every call)

Well then I retract my earlier statement.

I must add though that such a stupid and idiotic "treaty" coming out of montreal doesn't surprise me.

Quoted: R12 is the bad stuff...that's why they banned it you idiot! It is called FREON! SGatr15 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +1 It's also what they made MUSTARD GAS out of!!! R12 (freon) is an inert compound of the same family as your non-stick fry pan coating.  It's harmless to humans and animals. ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/dichlorodifluoromethane.html   It's not a precursor to "MUSTARD GAS".     Please stop sniffing glue.   It might be OK that we're not using it now since some beleive that it may rise up to the upper stratosphere in sufficient quantities where it may block contact between oxygen molecules thereby reducing their ability to form ozone, thus deleting the ozone concentration.   But I wont loose any sleep worrying about this one fridge or a couple dozen (or even thousands) that may be opened nor do I beleive that stgAR15's health will be impacted in any way, or that the impact on the earth will be anything but negligible.  Cut away.

Not that it matters, but I am EPA 609 cert. R-12 will release Phosgene gas during thermal decomposition. I think YOU need to stop sniffing glue. Thanks.

P.S.
Atleast know what the fuck your talking about before denouncing someone.

R-12 will may release some Phosgene gas during thermal decomposition.

So don't burn it.  Problem solved.....beside......you said Mustard gas, not phosgene.  

I'll stop agitating now.  

Why vent the fridge at all??? Just don't plug it in.

---

OK, now let's discuss the ozone hole.  Ozone is created when sunlight hits O2 in the upper atmosphere, as we all learned in school.  So, where is the ozone hole?  Over the south pole.  And when does it occur?  During summer... well, not exactly... during summer in the northern hemisphere... but it is WINTER down at the south pole.  OK, pay attention, follow me on this... when does the least sunlight reach the south pole?  During WINTER.

Now for the real question... if the ozone hole is created due to pollution and cfc's, and it is all America's fault, where are there more cars, therefore car pollution, and airconditioners than any place else?  How about Los Angeles?  OK, if that is so, why isn't the hole in the ozone over Los Angeles, instead of only at the south pole?

When I ask this, the environmental wackos always sputter and get mad, then call me names.

Quoted: R-12 will may release some Phosgene gas during thermal decomposition. So don't burn it.  Problem solved.....beside......you said Mustard gas, not phosgene.   I'll stop agitating now.

Look, the R-12 issue is non existant. The EPA is full of shit and was on a witch hunt. There is really no proof that R12 caused the ozone problem. Matter of fact, NASA was the biggest user of R12.. they vented thousands of pounds of the stuff to keep rocket engines cool during launch than probably all the A/C systems in the US that used it combined. Boils down to this, R12 WILL/DOES produce Phosgene gas, go buy some, heat it up... breathe it, come back and let me know how you fair.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My god some of you people need help. Do none of you realize that the US is the ONLY country in the world that banned Freon/R12? Do you hysterical people really think that venting a tiny amount of Freon out of a freezer will do ANYTHING when MILLIONS of A/C units, freezers, propellants, etc. are being vented daily ALL OVER the world? Good grief you people sound like liberals. Vent the goddamn freezer, just make sure no busy body idiots who believe bullshit see you and run to report you. This Freon scare is no different the than idiots who go around screaming that oil will run out in less than 50 years, that the air wouldn't be breathable by the year 2000, and similar hysterical nonsense. Get a grip! umm before YOU get all  crazed yer info is very wrong.! 24 nations in 1987 sigend the Montreal protocol,,which set standards to cut use and phase out  substances that deplete the Ozone.in 88 the usa /epa set these standards into their regulations.(which turned into the clean air act) in late 1990 the us with 55 other nations signed an agreement to pahse out  cfc's and hcfc's beside sthis 12 other nation with canada  pushed phase out to 1997 the chemicals covered by the act cfc11 cfc12 cfc113 cfc114 cfc115 halons halon 1211( r-12B1) halon 1301(r-13b1) halon 2402 (r-114b2) as of 1996 all of these have been phased out! hence their price jump.. and as before VENTING is illegal!!!! plain and simple,,it may  be a stupid law BUT its illegal to do so all the same!! The source of my information must be dated, but the fact remains that the ban on CFCs was and is stupid and most nations do not give a damn. $27,500 fine and up to 15 years in prison for releasing CFC into the air, and a rapist usually walks after 5-10 years. Yes, I see the righteousness of such a law. Even if the US isn't the only nation to ban CFC, the bottom line is that all this "ozone hole" bullshit is just that. Scientists are whining about global warming despite evidence of cyclical climatic changes throughout the history of the earth. The envionazis whine about oil supplies drying up in 50 years. Give me a break. BTW, if you can provide a source for your information I'd appreciate it - not as proof, but more as a source I can look into and get more detailed information on this ban issue.

Np AG
source is
Enviromentally safe refridgerant service techniques for the next generation
by Robert P. searinge,phd,.,p.e
and some other epa/hvac book i have lying around and off the actually EPA 608 test and answers.

Phosgene
isnt just produced thru R12, some other refridgerants also produce it. even after a full recovry when lines are being torched,re-welded,cut ect it is produced.
i have been exposed to it once,, justin small amounts when removing and intsalling an Airhandler and once when removeing an A coil. it will fuck you up,,, make you sick,, give you headaches,,make you dizzy,,, andit dont go away in just 5 minutes.

again all you internet wizards just keep argueing over lil stupid facts or spilt hairs,,, Read the laws stupid or not they muct be obeyd,, I sure as hell didnt see anyof you recommending 6 months ago for someone to install that folding stock or replace that US amde trigger with an orignalone now did I,,,, same point stupid law,, but still had to be obeyed!

Quoted:   From a 19 year A/C refrigeration tech..  If you listen to the ones, saying axe it or Tannerite it. Then your a dumb motherfucker too.  If you want more info go to these people.  EPA   If you think the ozone, is the only refrigerant taboo. Then go here. CDC

+1,000,000,000

Funny how many people here will advocate the violation of federal law here, considering the amount of flak they give anyone who even suggests doing such a thing in regards to firearms.

We can agree however much we want about how stupid/or not the law is but we still must follow it just like we do for firearms laws.

The fines and penalties for hazmat violations can be as severe as those for NFA violations.