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AmericanPatriot1776
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:11:22 AM EST
I have a large uprigt freezer that is built with a key lock in it. It is really old but works. I want to convert it into a hidden gunsafe.

The sheves in the freezer seem to be tubular and eminate cold. I want to cut them out, but I am unsure if some type of cooling element (freon) is in them.

How can I do this safely? Any ideas?
TheRedHorseman
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:12:01 AM EST
call up your local Dr. Fridge
nothing to see here, move along
Balming
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:12:45 AM EST
Take it outside and poke a pinhole in the line near the compressor.


Balming
Originally posted by MrsBRF, in reference to my "gun" "k, I'll work on it I loved that big thing"
Swindle1984
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:14:40 AM EST
Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
sgtar15
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:15:48 AM EST
Take it to an auto shop and have them remove it. They have vacumm machines that do just that.

And it is worth some money.

SGatr15
Sgart15----...aka as Dyslexic of Borg


Garandman
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:22:22 AM EST
The older freon is not dangerous (not to people nor to the ozone) you could just vent it and be done with it. It's only the newere stuff that can be toxic and/or flammable.

However if it's worth some $$ you might want to look into having someone drain it properly.
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SHIVAN
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:26:29 AM EST
A vaccum recovery unit.....

Venting freon in to the atmosphere is a pretty big deal these days. It carries heavy fines if caught.

I would also try a friendly auto shop or maybe if you know someone who works on home A/C....
I know Ike, let's have a spelling context.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:28:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:
...you could just vent it and be done with it.



poor advice....
I know Ike, let's have a spelling context.
MonkeyGrip
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:51:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 6:57:15 AM EST by MonkeyGrip]
There's no danger from Freon, other than you might get fined if caught discharging it. Before the now strict freon regulations I chopped up an old fridge with a tomahawk and sawzall, then folded the peices with a sledge hammer and put the peices in the garbage can. The freon made a hissing sound after chopping the tube with tomahawk. IIRC the dump now wants something like $40 to get rid of your old fridge. Or you could just leave the tubes intact. I used an old refer as a junk shelf for years and the freon stayed intact thus no laws were violated or ozone potentially depleted.
But then again, I just need to get my post count up.
David_Hineline
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Posted: 12/23/2004 6:59:22 AM EST
Load the deep-freeze up in a truck to Mexico where Freon is not unsafe and vent at will.

Every dumb woman in the world hides thier valuables in frozen packages in the freezer. It will be one of the first places the bad guys look, then when they find the freezer locked they will really go at it trying to figure out what's so valuable in there.
Class 3 shooters blow thier load faster and with just one pull on the trigger
NAM
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:04:14 AM EST
Do it the Red Green way.....bust the coil open with a hatchet, and turn on your vacuum cleaner. lol...
Isaiah 16:11 "Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp..."
Max_Mike
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:07:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
Do it the Red Green way.....bust the coil open with a hatchet, and turn on your vacuum cleaner. lol...



Yea get a axe...
glazer1972
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:09:44 AM EST
Strange how that freezer developed a leak!
CavVet said, "...anyone who thinks a traitor, with the balls of a frenchman would be a good President needs their head examined."
Sin_Bin
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:11:33 AM EST
Tannerite.
LET'S GO RED WINGS!
pale_pony
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:18:27 AM EST
The freon and the rest of the Chloroflourocarbon bullshi'ite scare about it hurting the ozone was a crock of crap concocted by the manufacturer DuPonte (french of course) when their patent ran out on it and they needed to corner the market on refrigerant again.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord... Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. -Luke 2, 8-14


astro
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:22:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Tannerite.



Beat me to it.
Keith_J
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:23:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
The freon and the rest of the Chloroflourocarbon bullshi'ite scare about it hurting the ozone was a crock of crap concocted by the manufacturer DuPonte (french of course) when their patent ran out on it and they needed to corner the market on refrigerant again.



No, DuPont is NOT French, only a French name. DuPont got its start making gunpowder for the Revolutionary War on the banks of the Brandywine Creek in Deleware. The patent didn't "run out", there was only the scare of the depletion of the ozone layer which in itself is pure bull. Why?

Ozone is created by UV light on oxygen. While its true ClO from degradation of chlorofluorocarbons destroys ozone, ozone does not protect us from UV, only the formation of ozone protects us.
sgtar15
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:29:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:
The older freon is not dangerous (not to people nor to the ozone) you could just vent it and be done with it. .



R12 is the bad stuff...that's why they banned it you idiot!

It is called FREON!

SGatr15
Sgart15----...aka as Dyslexic of Borg


Garandman
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:31:53 AM EST
The whole freon and ozone depletion thing is a crock of crap.
protus
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:42:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Forest:
The older freon is not dangerous (not to people nor to the ozone) you could just vent it and be done with it. .



R12 is the bad stuff...that's why they banned it you idiot!

It is called FREON!

SGatr15



ditto that it amazes me how much stupid advice folks give,, there is a reason Illegal venting is illegal. If you think other wise go look up the laws,the fines and the jail time you can get. Yes its done all the time by the""i didnt know"" crowd,, but as alot of you guys say ""ignorance"" isnt an excuse!
Most frezzer and other small appl, are hermetically sealed from the factory. meaning they are a sealed system. take the fridge down to an a/c shop or mechanic that has the right recovery equipment and have em take it out, and be done with it.
ASUsax
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:46:31 AM EST
A) Don't vent to the atmosphere. Global warming is BS, but the Ozone hole isn't. R12 is bad sh!t.

B) If it still works, keep using it. Those old units are built much better than they are today. R12 is a much better refrigerant than most of it's replacements.
This one, too.
skpp108
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Posted: 12/23/2004 7:52:33 AM EST
Actually,........ If you just happened to accidentally hit a line with a hacksaw, and it started to hiss, and then stopped after a while, who the fuck would know??? "Oops, shit, hafta watch that next time. Well, thats water under the bridge, on with the project-"
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:02:49 AM EST
I wonder how many of these guys dump their old oil straight into the storm drain.
Evil_ATF
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:04:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 8:07:40 AM EST by Evil_ATF]

Originally Posted By Balming:
Take it outside and poke a pinhole in the line near the compressor.


Balming



Knowingly venting refrigerant is a $27,500 fine.

Make sure your neighbor doesn't see you.

Refrigerant displaces oxygen.

Make sure you don't die.
"You should strike in such a way as to make it difficult for opponents to use their swords. Whether closing in or crossing over, you should strike unrhythmically. In general and in particular, a rhythm that can be tapped into is bad."
sgtar15
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:06:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIPSNIPE1:
I wonder how many of these guys dump their old oil straight into the storm drain.



EGGS ACT LY!


Probably the same damn people that leave trash in the woods.

Okay, maybe I am over reacting a little...but you get my point.

Sgatr15
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Garandman
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:06:39 AM EST
9 milly
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Swindle1984
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:08:27 AM EST
I'd keep the freezer intact. They're quit sturdy and well-built, more so than today. Just put a false back to the shelves and stick things behind them. Anyone who manages to unlock it (it's the tubular lock kind, right? Real easy to get into.) will open it to find... frozen food. How many are going to move all that stuff out of the freezer to see if there's a false wall with things hidden behind it? Not freaking many.
red-don
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:09:43 AM EST
DuPont and Freon link

Freon Superstitions

Freon is non-toxic. Freon is not "dangerous" Google it.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:11:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
A) Don't vent to the atmosphere. Global warming is BS, but the Ozone hole isn't. R12 is bad sh!t.

B) If it still works, keep using it. Those old units are built much better than they are today. R12 is a much better refrigerant than most of it's replacements.


I agree! I was the JPL open house in Pasadena Calif, and I spoke with the tech people about this R12/Ozone depletion controversy, and according to this guy, the hole is real and their is a positive link between Chlorofluorocarbon/Ozone delpeletion. Those guys study all kinds of earth/atmospheric stuff over there.
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pale_pony
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:20:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 8:22:57 AM EST by pale_pony]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
The freon and the rest of the Chloroflourocarbon bullshi'ite scare about it hurting the ozone was a crock of crap concocted by the manufacturer DuPonte (french of course) when their patent ran out on it and they needed to corner the market on refrigerant again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, DuPont is NOT French, only a French name. DuPont got its start making gunpowder for the Revolutionary War on the banks of the Brandywine Creek in Deleware. The patent didn't "run out", (baloney) there was only the scare of the depletion of the ozone layer which in itself is pure bull. Why?

Ozone is created by UV light on oxygen. While its true ClO from degradation of chlorofluorocarbons destroys ozone, ozone does not protect us from UV, only the formation of ozone protects us.


Dupont committed similar treachery on the CFC- ozone depletion issue several years ago. When Dupont's patent on the CFC-based refrigerant freon was about to expire (which would have allowed competitors to start manufacturing freon), Dupont developed a freon substitute, patented it, and then supported the CFC ban. This action ensured Dupont's EXCLUSIVE rights to manufacture the freon substitute for the next 17 years.


Now because of Dupont's actions, it costs several hundred dollars to recharge



Originally Posted By red-don:
DuPont and Freon link

Freon Superstitions

Freon is non-toxic. Freon is not "dangerous" Google it.




Point and match, thank you red-don!

I may have been mistaken about the DuPont origin, but the rest was right!
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord... Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. -Luke 2, 8-14


mindtrix
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:23:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Forest:
The older freon is not dangerous (not to people nor to the ozone) you could just vent it and be done with it. .



R12 is the bad stuff...that's why they banned it you idiot!

It is called FREON!

SGatr15



+1

It's also what they made MUSTARD GAS out of!!!
Won't you be my neighbor?
Max_Mike
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:27:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
A) Don't vent to the atmosphere. Global warming is BS, but the Ozone hole isn't. R12 is bad sh!t.

B) If it still works, keep using it. Those old units are built much better than they are today. R12 is a much better refrigerant than most of it's replacements.


I agree! I was the JPL open house in Pasadena Calif, and I spoke with the tech people about this R12/Ozone depletion controversy, and according to this guy, the hole is real and their is a positive link between Chlorofluorocarbon/Ozone delpeletion. Those guys study all kinds of earth/atmospheric stuff over there.



Yea and exactly how does JPL get FUNDING to study the problem if they say there is no problem?

JPL has a vested interest in saying “the hole is real and their is a positive link between Chlorofluorocarbon/Ozone delpeletion”… it is still bullsh*t junk science.
Keith_J
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:29:14 AM EST
The "ozone hole" has largely repaired itself in the 10 years since domestic manufacture of CFC's has been banned. Why? Because ozone DOES NOT BLOCK UV! Oxygen blocks UV by forming ozone.

In the stratsophere, ozone lasts for only seconds before it degrades back into oxygen, releasing heat energy. If you expose ozone to UV, very little energy is absorbed before the ozone decomposes into oxygen, starting the process all over. CFC's and their byproducts do NOTHING to inhibit the ability of oxygen to absorb UV energy.

The bottom line? Even back in the days of the "ozone hole", no one could measure ANY increase of UV radiation because of said ozone hole. Its all a Chicken Little story, a story bought hook, line and sinker by idiot politicians.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:35:10 AM EST
take it to Bulletfest
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:38:56 AM EST
Freeze it!
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Posted: 12/23/2004 8:40:42 AM EST
Yes, and up until a couple months ago putting flash suppressors, bayo lugs and collapsible stocks made an M4gery no more dangerous -- but if someone tattled on you there could be some hefty fines to pay and time to serve.

Dangerous or not.....

It could get you in a heap of trouble, and the DEQ and EPA folks don't usually fuck around.

YMMV......
I know Ike, let's have a spelling context.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 9:42:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 9:47:16 AM EST by MonkeyGrip]

R12 is the bad stuff...that's why they banned it you idiot!
It is called FREON!
SGatr15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+1
It's also what they made MUSTARD GAS out of!!!


R12 (freon) is an inert compound of the same family as your non-stick fry pan coating. It's harmless to humans and animals. ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/dichlorodifluoromethane.html It's not a precursor to "MUSTARD GAS". Please stop sniffing glue.

It might be OK that we're not using it now since some beleive that it may rise up to the upper stratosphere in sufficient quantities where it may block contact between oxygen molecules thereby reducing their ability to form ozone, thus deleting the ozone concentration. But I wont loose any sleep worrying about this one fridge or a couple dozen (or even thousands) that may be opened nor do I beleive that stgAR15's health will be impacted in any way, or that the impact on the earth will be anything but negligible. Cut away.
But then again, I just need to get my post count up.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 9:50:22 AM EST
We can talk openly about venting freon but we can't discuss cutting an AR barrel to 14.5" on a non-SBR.

I know Ike, let's have a spelling context.
protus
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Posted: 12/23/2004 10:51:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Because ozone DOES NOT BLOCK UV! Oxygen blocks UV by forming ozone.......

......CFC's and their byproducts do NOTHING to inhibit the ability of oxygen to absorb UV energy.

.



ummm ok ,, listen
ozone-created by Oxygene when it reacts with UV light,ozone absorbs/refelcts UV
cfc's and someother chems, chlorine/bromine(sp) deplete the OXYGEN ..Sooo NO oxygen NO ozone,, NO way to block UV,,,

Also florucarbon refrigerants ARE harmfull and can kill you!



Knowingly venting refrigerant is a $27,500 fine.

per day per infraction w/thepossiblity of crimminal charges!and jail time of up to 15 years.
the EPA can reward perosn who report violations up to 10,000$ if charges are brought up on someone

Now when you all wanna post yer EPA /hvac cert #'s here then maybe you can argue all you want on The EPA's refrigerant laws, untill then give bad advice and be internet handymen



glazer1972
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Posted: 12/23/2004 11:16:04 AM EST
I have never knowingly vented freon. I've already told you "My freezer had a leak."
CavVet said, "...anyone who thinks a traitor, with the balls of a frenchman would be a good President needs their head examined."
Forest
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Posted: 12/23/2004 11:20:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By protus:
[Also florucarbon refrigerants ARE harmfull and can kill you!


Only if they fill up a room and displace all the oxygen.

Before this envirohysteria it was common practice to just vent the Freon then replace it with new CHEAP freon.



Knowingly venting refrigerant is a $27,500 fine.

per day per infraction w/thepossiblity of crimminal charges!and jail time of up to 15 years.
the EPA can reward perosn who report violations up to 10,000$ if charges are brought up on someone


Anyone here have an EPA EnviroNazi come with a search warrent and check their homes and refridgerators?

Yep I see them checking refridgerators all the time.

IF the guy builds his gun cabinet out of an old freezer who can say thay his breaking the lines vented the Freon - or if he had a line leak years ago?

Got evidence of it.

AmericanPatriot indicated the motor would come on - but is it getting really cold? As cold as it needs to? No - then the freon must have leaked out.

At least with an AWB violation somebody can say LOOK his barrel is threade, he has a FS or Telestock.

What is the EPA going to say to the Jury - "We found Joe Homowner with a non-working refridgerator with no freon in it - now we can't prove he deliberately vented it but we want you to convict him anyway"?
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protus
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Posted: 12/23/2004 11:35:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

What is the EPA going to say to the Jury - "We found Joe Homowner with a non-working refridgerator with no freon in it - now we can't prove he deliberately vented it but we want you to convict him anyway"?




If someone WAS to see him VENT illegally they would have a case!
and he would get fined or have charges brought agaisnt him.


I am not saying he shouldnt make the gun case,, im just saying what the fines are!
illput money on it 90% of the posters in this thread ARE not EPA cert'd. Yet they want to give all this ""advice"" and on how freon is this and that. Amazing how a few google serachs makes everyone a pro around here! And to think some folks trust these same folks with firearms advice!
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Posted: 12/23/2004 11:36:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By protus:
[Also florucarbon refrigerants ARE harmfull and can kill you!


Only if they fill up a room and displace all the oxygen.

Before this envirohysteria it was common practice to just vent the Freon then replace it with new CHEAP freon.



Knowingly venting refrigerant is a $27,500 fine.

per day per infraction w/thepossiblity of crimminal charges!and jail time of up to 15 years.
the EPA can reward perosn who report violations up to 10,000$ if charges are brought up on someone


Anyone here have an EPA EnviroNazi come with a search warrent and check their homes and refridgerators?

Yep I see them checking refridgerators all the time.

IF the guy builds his gun cabinet out of an old freezer who can say thay his breaking the lines vented the Freon - or if he had a line leak years ago?

Got evidence of it.

AmericanPatriot indicated the motor would come on - but is it getting really cold? As cold as it needs to? No - then the freon must have leaked out.

At least with an AWB violation somebody can say LOOK his barrel is threade, he has a FS or Telestock.

What is the EPA going to say to the Jury - "We found Joe Homowner with a non-working refridgerator with no freon in it - now we can't prove he deliberately vented it but we want you to convict him anyway"?



The cases I have heard about are usually prosecuted based on common observation. No warrant necessary. Regardless of the probability of getting caught, what has been suggested is very illegal. Regardless of how stupid it is, how asinine, how insane -- still illegal to vent freon gas to the atmosphere.

YMMV.....
I know Ike, let's have a spelling context.
AeroE
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:18:36 PM EST
I just looked to how many posts were entered before someone suggested tannerite.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:23:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 12:27:04 PM EST by Tango7]

Originally Posted By AeroE:
I just looked to how many posts were entered before someone suggested tannerite.



Bastard!

By nine minutes!

ETA - I think the "willfull discharge" probably applies to service techs and licensed shops that choose to disregard the laws they studied to pass the required test for certification, as opposed to Joe Fixit, but that's JMHO.

ETA2 - DANGER! Depending on how old it is, it may have Ammonia in it. Ammonia IS a listed poison, and is bad shit, Maynard. Be cautious.
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:25:30 PM EST
If you want a little money maybe have an hvac guy come out and suck it out of the system or just vent it to the atmosphere hell I live in Michigan we need warmer weather here anyhow.
Ops
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:28:41 PM EST
R12 Freon is HEAVIER that air. It SINKS to low spats and disperses. The only danger from R12 is that it does displace oxygen, and you can asphixiate IF you are in an unvented low spot. Now kindly explain to me how the hell it gets up to the upper atmosphere in the first place? There has been a 'hole' in the ozone layer ofer the south pole every spring, b/c it takes SUNLIGHT to create ozone! By the end of Antarctica's 'summer' the hole is GONE!!! One volcano eruption dumps more ozone inhibitors into the atmosphere that all of the regrigerant ever manufactured.

DuPont is the org. that is funding the 'ozone hole' research!!! Do your homework!!

Protus, you can sniff freon all day long and all you will get is a headache. It is inert, that is why it was so popular.

Ops (Master HVAC Mechanic, Universal certified, and licensed to proctor the damn college level test you need to pass to handle the new junk tha passes for refrigerant.)
I find your lack of faith disturbing.....
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:34:40 PM EST
LOL some real great advice in this thread


Just think how much has been dumped into the atmosphere... one more isn't going to make a bit of diffrence.... The damage has already been done!

WTF do they do with it after they suck it out? Bottle it up and jettison it into space?
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:37:14 PM EST
Defrost the thing with an ice pick like my great grandmother did to her old freezer.

twonami
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:40:45 PM EST
I say throw out the freezer and just buy a good gun safe, be done with it.
"ass or gas, nobody rides for free"
sgtar15
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Posted: 12/23/2004 12:44:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By GC456:

WTF do they do with it after they suck it out? Bottle it up and jettison it into space?



They use it in other applications.

The stuff runs $50+ a lb.


Sgatr15
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