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Posted: 6/12/2001 7:39:33 PM EDT
[url]http://www.backwoodshome.com/columns/duffy010501.html[/url] Judging from the response to my commentary titled "Something unsaid about Timothy McVeigh's execution," there's a lot of uneasiness in America about McVeigh, his bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, and the connection with the Waco tragedy. I received surprisingly few angry letters as a result of that commentary (except, curiously, from some newspaper editors), so I thought I'd give readers a chance to see things from McVeigh's view, in his own voice. Following is a letter I and a few other media types recently received from McVeigh. To those editors who will again be angry with me, please keep in mind the First Amendment you always so proudly defend. "I explain herein why I bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. I explain this not for publicity, nor seeking to win an argument for right or wrong. I explain so that the record is clear as to my thinking and motivations in bombing a government installation. I chose to bomb a federal building because such an action served more purposes than other options. Foremost, the bombing was a retaliatory strike; a counterattack, for the cumulative raids (and subsequent violence and damage) that federal agents had participated in over the preceding years (including, but not limited to, Waco). From the formation of such units as the FBI's "Hostage Rescue" and other assault teams amongst federal agencies during the '80s, culminating in the Waco incident, federal actions grew increasingly militaristic and violent, to the point where at Waco, our government--like the Chinese--was deploying tanks against its own citizens. Knowledge of these multiple and ever-more aggressive raids across the country constituted an identifiable pattern of conduct within and by the federal government and amongst its various agencies. For all intents and purposes, federal agents had become "soldiers" (using military training, tactics, techniques, equipment, language, dress, organization, and mindset) and they were escalating their behavior. Therefore this bombing was also ment as a pre-emptive (or pro-active) strike against these forces and their command and control centers within the federal building. When an aggressor force continually launches attacks from a particular base of operations, it is sound military strategy to take the fight to the enemy. Additionally, borrowing a page from U.S. foreign policy, I decided to send a message to a government that was becoming increasingly hostile, by bombing a government building and the government employees within that building who represent that government. Bombing the Murrah Federal Building was morally and strategically equivalent to the U.S. hitting a government building in Serbia, Iraq, or other nations. Based on observations of the policies of my own government, I viewed this action as an acceptable option. From this perspective, what occurred in Oklahoma City was no different than what Americans rain on the heads of others all the time, and subsequently, my mindset was and is of clinical detachment. (The bombing of the Murrah building was not personal, no more than when Air Force, Army, Navy, or Marine personnel bomb or launch cruise missiles against government installations and their personnel.) I hope that this clarification amply addresses your question." Sincerely, Timothy J. McVeigh USP Terre Haute (IN)
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:40:07 PM EDT
Cont I'm not sure what McVeigh meant by his last sentence. I didn't ask him a question, nor have I ever been in contact with him. It may be addressed to the obvious questions that many people have as to why he did the bombing. You can draw your own conclusions from this letter. As much as I detest what McVeigh did in Oklahoma City, it is difficult to make a moral separation of his actions from those of the U.S. government against foreigners. Oh, Duffy!! How could you say that?!! Very easily, actually. We kill foreigners in their own land like their lives are worth nothing. We get away with it because we are more powerful. And I'm not just talking about our government. Polls show most Americans support the killing and we readily forgive ourselves when a bomb or missile goes off target and kills civilians. You'll remember the air raid shelter we bombed in Iraq that killed many children. We quickly forgave our government because our military said the Iraqi government intentionally deceived us into thinking it was a military installation. In my opinion, we really forgave our government because we as a people have a low opinion of foreigners, especially when we think the foreigners need to be taught a lesson. The same is true of the dead Branch Davidians at Waco. Those people were so different from most of the rest of us we saw them as foreigners too, making their lives of little consequence. The same used to be true of blacks in this country, but now we have accepted blacks as real Americans so we no longer lynch them with impunity for minor offenses against whites. McVeigh may be a murderer, but I think we should all look at ourselves and see who we are. Branch Davidians have expendable lives, and so do foreigners. But the innocents of the Murrah Building must be avenged. We are at least hypocrites and probably racists for our easy ability to classify certain people as expendable but others as not.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:43:37 PM EDT
Seems to be a few good points.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:45:42 PM EDT
I'm not even going to waste the few minutes of my life that it would take to read this letter. I'm glad that piece of shit is dead. Wish I could have put my front sight post on his head and let one loose on his ass. I'm sorry but when I think about what he did it upsets me almost as much as the Government upset him. The more "we" talk about him the more he wins.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:49:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: I'm not even going to waste the few minutes of my life that it would take to read this letter.
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that too bad because it raises some valid points
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:53:10 PM EDT
How would you answer these questions? Did Mcveigh have a passion? Did he believe in his heart it was a moral and ethical pursuit? Was he willing to accept the consequences of his actions? Did he die for his convictions? Did his actions leave a hugh imprint upon our lives? I believe the answer is "yes" to all the above. I hope someday when my time comes i can answer yes to the above.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:54:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: Seems to be a few good points.
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I concur. Unlike doorgunner, I think this needs to be talked about and addressed. Otherwise, it may very well be only a matter of time before history repeats itself.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:54:55 PM EDT
Hey gunner it's good that we talk. The more the real truth is told maybe just maybe the sheeple will wake up out of thier comas' & see whats really going on in the world.Then hopefully we can set thing the correct way before something like this happens again.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:58:56 PM EDT
The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 7:59:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: Seems to be a few good points.
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I concur. Unlike doorgunner, I think this needs to be talked about and addressed. Otherwise, it may very well be only a matter of time before history repeats itself.
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here is another one I posted [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=29720#lastPost[/url]
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:00:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.
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READ THE LETTER
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:07:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:08:27 PM EDT
doorgunner--sticking your head in the sand ain't gonna make it go away. You'll be hearing about mcveigh for many years to come. Just like we hear about oswald, 38 years later. No flame intended, you can read or not read whatever you like, but this whole thing won't disappear with his execution.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:10:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.
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Hell Gunner , Our government does that everyday with Tomahawk Missles. What's the difference between a U.S building and one overseas???
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:19:56 PM EDT
I read the letter when it was on FoxNews.com Sorry guys, I can't agree with ya on this one. My opinion stands. I've tried to see how him targeting the Murrah building was somehow valid. In a military sense I feel that it was a soft target. It was easy for him to do what he did. However, in my eyes all he did what cut a finger off. What he needed to do was go for the head for example, the people that direct the orders. Then, maybe, I could respect what he had done a little. Or at least say, he made some valid points.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:21:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.
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Hell Gunner , Our government does that everyday with Tomahawk Missles. What's the difference between a U.S building and one overseas???
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When I look at an FBI building I don't see the enemy. that's the difference to me.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:23:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: When I look at an FBI building I don't see the enemy. that's the difference to me.
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Tell Randy Weaver that. Or do you hate him too?
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:25:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2001 8:24:06 PM EDT by RipMeyer]
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The more "we" talk about him the more he wins.
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Whats wrong with him winning? Note: I dont agree how he did what he did
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:28:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: I read the letter when it was on FoxNews.com Sorry guys, I can't agree with ya on this one. My opinion stands. I've tried to see how him targeting the Murrah building was somehow valid. In a military sense I feel that it was a soft target. It was easy for him to do what he did. However, in my eyes all he did what cut a finger off. What he needed to do was go for the head for example, the people that direct the orders. Then, maybe, I could respect what he had done a little. Or at least say, he made some valid points.
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You can't take out the head with out weaking the body first. He had only done little because he got caught before he could do more. He might be the start of things to come. If you learn anything from the history of war is the guerilla/ ambush style fighting takes it toll on things in the long run. This bombing wasn't done to change things / or people way of thinking overnight. MORE LIKE THE SECOND SHOT HEARD AROUND THE WORLD!
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:28:58 PM EDT
I understand what doorgunner is saying. That building was a crappy target for what mcveigh wanted to accomplish. mcveigh mentioned assassinations, that would have been a much better idea. More direct, more understandable. Too bad he didn't go that route.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:35:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: Tell Randy Weaver that. Or do you hate him too?
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What happened to Randy Weaver and his family was very tragic. I don't see how you associate me disagreeing with everything that Timothy McVeigh says and me "hating" Randy Weaver. Just because I think McVeigh was a piece of shit doesn't mean I agree with everything the government does.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:35:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2001 8:33:46 PM EDT by MG_ME]
[b]The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.[/b] [left]I don't think it was cow shit i really think it was about 7000Ibs of ANFO ammonia Nitrate/Deasel fuel combo(From what the news said i think it was 7K lbs). two i really think reno/clinton went the wrong way with these raids this means McViegh had no right to do what he did but he did it McVeigh got punish but reno /clinton/Lon walks free this is not right. I really think clinton sold us out with the chinese. they have a Cruise missle now(Thanks to him) America needs to get there collective heads out of there ass and wake up.[/left]
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:38:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MG_ME: [b]The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.[/b] I don't think it was cow shit i really think it was about 7000Ibs of ANFO ammonia Nitrate/ Deasel fuel combo(From what the news said i think it was 7K lbs). two i really think reno /clinton went the wrong way with these raids this means McViegh had no right to do what he did but he did it McVeigh got punish but reno /clinton/Lon walks free this is not right. I really think clinton sold us out with the chinese. they have a Cruise missle now(Thanks to him) America needs to get there collective heads out of there ass and wake up.
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Now that I can agree with. and thanks for setting me straight on the contents of the truck.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 8:43:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rainman: I understand what doorgunner is saying. That building was a crappy target for what mcveigh wanted to accomplish. mcveigh mentioned assassinations, that would have been a much better idea. More direct, more understandable. Too bad he didn't go that route.
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He accomplished what he wanted to due and that was goto war with the federal government. He has stated in his letter that he would have assassinated agents instead of bombing only if the book unintended consequences was out before he did the bombing.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 9:10:22 PM EDT
Do you really think that McVeigh had all of these thoughts conveyed to us in this letter inside of his head before and during the bombing of the Murrah building. He seems like a fairly intelligent person, but he has also had 6 years sitting in prison to decide what the reasonings were for his mania. His mental stability started degrading when he couldn't make the physical requirements for ranger school. Of course the current circumstances were not ideal at the time for him to meet these requirements, but I feel he could have got into ranger school if his mental ability was stronger. I know a couple soldiers who got through Ranger school that were in a much more mentally and physically depleted state than McVeigh was at the time their orders were issued. McVeigh also handled the situation of not being able to meet the Ranger school requirements in the totally wrong way. He had other options he could have used to resolve certain issue. But no, he had to get an attitude about the whole damn thing and even threw away his military time. So this shows his own ignorance and that he is not as intelligent as some people may believe he is. The bombing of the Murrah building was the most cowardly thing he could have done as far as I am concerned. If he was so pissed with the government and if he really had some intelligence and was a real man he would had taken out a real target and made a real statement. Lots of targets in D.C.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 9:16:41 PM EDT
Greaper maybe he was so blinded with rage that he thought the real& only enemy was the agents in the field. For all we know there could have been someone in the background pushing his buttons like a killer robot. There are plenty of underground movements that could use a fall guy like McViegh to do thier dirty work. Like tell him go bomb that building here when it's done we have another target in D.C. ect ect..
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 9:23:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By greaper: Do you really think that McVeigh had all of these thoughts conveyed to us in this letter inside of his head before and during the bombing of the Murrah building. He seems like a fairly intelligent person, but he has also had 6 years sitting in prison to decide what the reasonings were for his mania. His mental stability started degrading when he couldn't make the physical requirements for ranger school. Of course the current circumstances were not ideal at the time for him to meet these requirements, but I feel he could have got into ranger school if his mental ability was stronger. I know a couple soldiers who got through Ranger school that were in a much more mentally and physically depleted state than McVeigh was at the time their orders were issued. McVeigh also handled the situation of not being able to meet the Ranger school requirements in the totally wrong way. He had other options he could have used to resolve certain issue. But no, he had to get an attitude about the whole damn thing and even threw away his military time. So this shows his own ignorance and that he is not as intelligent as some people may believe he is. The bombing of the Murrah building was the most cowardly thing he could have done as far as I am concerned. If he was so pissed with the government and if he really had some intelligence and was a real man he would had taken out a real target and made a real statement. Lots of targets in D.C.
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I think he might of thought about trying an assassination but figured he'd never get away with it. In his mind blowing up a building while he was miles away was something that sound like he could get away with.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 9:27:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
Originally Posted By greaper: Do you really think that McVeigh had all of these thoughts conveyed to us in this letter inside of his head before and during the bombing of the Murrah building. He seems like a fairly intelligent person, but he has also had 6 years sitting in prison to decide what the reasonings were for his mania. His mental stability started degrading when he couldn't make the physical requirements for ranger school. Of course the current circumstances were not ideal at the time for him to meet these requirements, but I feel he could have got into ranger school if his mental ability was stronger. I know a couple soldiers who got through Ranger school that were in a much more mentally and physically depleted state than McVeigh was at the time their orders were issued. McVeigh also handled the situation of not being able to meet the Ranger school requirements in the totally wrong way. He had other options he could have used to resolve certain issue. But no, he had to get an attitude about the whole damn thing and even threw away his military time. So this shows his own ignorance and that he is not as intelligent as some people may believe he is. The bombing of the Murrah building was the most cowardly thing he could have done as far as I am concerned. If he was so pissed with the government and if he really had some intelligence and was a real man he would had taken out a real target and made a real statement. Lots of targets in D.C.
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I think he might of thought about trying an assassination but figured he'd never get away with it. In his mind blowing up a building while he was miles away was something that sound like he could get away with.
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Yes you make a very valid point Gunner.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 9:59:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.
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While in no way agreeing with his choice of target, and not particularly agreeing with violence as an option at all at this point, I am quite impressed by McVeigh's organizational and technical abilities. He apparently took some hopelessly labor-intensive formula from a dubious "how-to" book and not only scaled it up but also simplified it into a practical explosive. He somehow was able to purchase several thousands of dollars worth of known bomb-making ingredients, including a large quantity of rather hard-to-find nitromethane, without arousing suspicion. He was apparently able to get not only money but blasting caps, det cord, and 150 pounds of booster explosives by breaking into various places, all without getting caught. He was able to somehow convince at least a couple other people, much less goal-oriented than himself, to override their own common sense and self-preservation instincts and help him out. And everything worked on the first try. No, he's not a hero, he's a murderer. But he did accomplish a difficult task.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 10:10:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The more "we" talk about him the more he wins.
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Whats wrong with him winning? Note: I dont agree how he did what he did
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I agree with what I think you are trying to say here. We should not be in such a blind panic to distance ourselves from McVeigh that we allow an opportunity to speak out about governmental abuses to slip through our fingers. If McVeigh was right about some things, and we don't use the mess he created to try and set those things right, then those kids he killed really did die in vain. McVeigh's plan was extremely bad, but let's salvage what we can.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:15:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fuzzbean: I agree with what I think you are trying to say here. We should not be in such a blind panic to distance ourselves from McVeigh that we allow an opportunity to speak out about governmental abuses to slip through our fingers. If McVeigh was right about some things, and we don't use the mess he created to try and set those things right, then those kids he killed really did die in vain. McVeigh's plan was extremely bad, but let's salvage what we can.
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what do you think could be done to use the opportunity to our advantage?
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:31:43 AM EDT
Killing innocent women and children do not justify anything. Regardless.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 11:59:15 AM EDT
RipMeyers quote: "What do you think could be done to use the opportunity to our advantage" Not resorting to violence to resolve personal and governmental issues. Acting in a blind rage or retaliatory manner is no way to resolve real world issues today. Otherwise we would still be gunslingers living in the western era. Acting in this manner is what is going to eventually lead to the destruction of mankind and this world. Do you see the NRA acting in this manner? You must admit that the NRA has kept a very strong foothold for our beliefs and the 2nd through the years. It amazes me how much strength this organization actually still has in this country. We must be organized and stand together for our beliefs and act as a whole. We must educate each other and educate the people that do not believe in our beliefs and opinions. Otherwise we are just acting like some other barbaric, inhumane, third world nation or extremist group.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 12:45:55 PM EDT
I read Timmy McVeighs "excuse" for killing the women and children and regular folks at OK City...but the so called Govt troops were not there...which means in McVeigh parlance He screwed up...Very few people agree with the Govt tactics at Ruby Ridge or Waco...but go back to the Veterans Benefit Army of 1924 a group of mustard gas, blind, paralyzed, amputees...and their comrades from WWI camped out in Washington DC..the depression in its third year saw many of these vets farms and homes taken and their families near starvation...while fat cats in DC were feasting on their tax dollars...They were attacked by Govt troops...shot ...slashed with sabres by Cavalry and gassed killing one of their children..The politicians had promised them in great speeches garnering many votes for the speakers to give the vets the bonus promised those who went to fight that hadnt been honored (imagine the politicans not delivering on a promise) the told the vets they could have the money in 1945 (if any were still alive that is)..So they peacefully protested until provoked and threw bricks and then an Army officer by the name of Douglas McArthur and a Lt. George Patton charged the very same brothers in arms they fought beside and orderd into battle men and their wives and children who they shared trenches with some who died that they may live...We dont celebrate that day much...we dont like to talk about it...even in the biographical movie Macarthur it was glossed over...trivilized in its day...None of those vets blew up any buildings or children to protest a gross injustice...Why??
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 12:50:21 PM EDT
Whats the difference between Timmy McVeigh and Lon Horuichi...Horuichi passed the Q test..Timmy failed...had McVeigh passed and went on into spec op work...wonder if he would have pulled the trigger at Ruby Ridge...my guess given his selfish desire to kill others to make himself feel like somebody...he would have...and would have had no trouble burning out women and children at Waco as he did in Ok City
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 1:17:04 PM EDT
Jesus put it pretty plainly in Mark 8 vs 15-23 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him (the deeds of others...for example the ATF, FBI etc)But what comes out of a man, that is what defiles him (his deeds for example) For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders.Thefts, covetousness, wickedness,deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye blasphemy,pride, foolishness All these evil things come from within (the human heart) and defile the man....To say that anything outside of Timmy or any of us..causes us to do evil to others is to refuse to look within..at our natures...Timmy blew up the children because Timmy was evil...no excuses no I didnt make special forces..no they made fun of me on the playground...or they screwed me over...or they killed Randy Weavers wife and children...or any excuse...He committed murder...he did not save someones life by taking another..neither was he defending the country...this was all done under Clintons watch and Reno elected by a nation who turned a blind eye to the crimes of Mena...and a host of evil..for years...Reno broke the law..the Clintons broke the law..looks to me like the Govt has broken many laws that the rest of us are expected to abide by ....and that doesnt sit well with most of us...because it isnt fair..yet there is a way to legally go about casting them out..and there is a duty to preserve order in the nation..yes they take advantage of it..but they are only reflection of ourselves...a moral nation would have been outraged by these abuses and demanded a stop and the parties responsible tried and if found guilty ...punished We cannot condone the killing of innocents to achieve some political end..terrorism is not justified it is what our enemies do...it is not the way of what the founders of our country wanted or what our God demands...For without Him we cannot be a nation governed by His Spirit by a nation governed by the human heart which is wicked -Regardless of the injustice ones has done to oneself by any outside source a neighbor the enemy the govt..one cannot resort to evil..in order that justice be done and the only way Ive seen to govern a wicked heart is to find out what God would have us do...and thats in the bible...no where else...and in no one else
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 2:06:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fuzzbean:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: The truth is this guy thinks that he's a hero because he loaded a few 55 gallon drums of cow shit on a truck and parked it in front of a building. Anybody can set an ambush up like that.
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While in no way agreeing with his choice of target, and not particularly agreeing with violence as an option at all at this point, I am quite impressed by McVeigh's organizational and technical abilities. He apparently took some hopelessly labor-intensive formula from a dubious "how-to" book and not only scaled it up but also simplified it into a practical explosive. He somehow was able to purchase several thousands of dollars worth of known bomb-making ingredients, including a large quantity of rather hard-to-find nitromethane, without arousing suspicion. He was apparently able to get not only money but blasting caps, det cord, and 150 pounds of booster explosives by breaking into various places, all without getting caught. He was able to somehow convince at least a couple other people, much less goal-oriented than himself, to override their own common sense and self-preservation instincts and help him out. And everything worked on the first try. No, he's not a hero, he's a murderer. But he did accomplish a difficult task.
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Careful Fuzz, you may start a rash of conspiracy theories talking like that.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 2:37:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: what do you think could be done to use the opportunity to our advantage?
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One thing we could do is stop saying that Ruby Ridge and Waco don't have anything to do with Oklahoma City. Even if to one possibly valid way of thinking they don't, we don't have to go around telling people that. Propaganda is a powerful weapon, and it's effectiveness has little to do with the logical reasoning behind it. And, as someone pointed out before, some agency of the federal government is probably monitoring this website and many others right now to determine just how various groups with widely varied viewpoints are reacting to McVeigh's execution. Us openly and frankly stating here that we do agree with some of McVeigh's motivations could very well put pressure upon the government to reform slightly. Of course, expressing these same feelings to our elected representatives and to the public at large, as much as we can without looking like nuts, could be much better yet. Obviously, we need to consider our audience and be tactful. I am in no way saying we should threaten to repeat the murderous antics of McVeigh. Just take advantage of the temporary attention McVeigh has bought at so dear a price to get our opinions heard.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 2:44:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Drake: Careful Fuzz, you may start a rash of conspiracy theories talking like that.
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Ha! Personally, I think he really did do all this stuff by himself, with the limited help of those other two guys and POSSIBLY one or two more of the same sort. No government backing, no explosives stored in the building, no Arabs.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 3:05:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:We dont celebrate that day much...we dont like to talk about it...even in the biographical movie Macarthur it was glossed over...trivilized in its day...None of those vets blew up any buildings or children to protest a gross injustice...Why??
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You're right. Those vets didn't blow up any buildings or children. And we have forgotten all about them. I hope no one here likes what McVeigh did. I hope none of us would ever dream of repeating it. But one thing is for sure: Waco and Ruby Ridge will never be forgotten. Let's try to figure out how to use what's already been done as a tool against our enemies; they will darn sure try to use it against us.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 3:34:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Timmy blew up the children because Timmy was evil We cannot condone the killing of innocents to achieve some political end..terrorism is not justified it is what our enemies do...it is not the way of what the founders of our country wanted or what our God demands...For without Him we cannot be a nation governed by His Spirit by a nation governed by the human heart which is wicked
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Your missing the point! OUR nation blows up innocent people all the time and nobody here complains about it!! Aww their just rag heads or A-rabs no big deal. thats crap!! the people on the other end of those bombs say the same thing you do, about us. The point is when its done by our government to another country we stand tall and cheer. What Mcveigh did is NO DIFFERENT then what the USA does all the time. BTW I dont think he was evil.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:18:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Timmy blew up the children because Timmy was evil We cannot condone the killing of innocents to achieve some political end..terrorism is not justified it is what our enemies do...it is not the way of what the founders of our country wanted or what our God demands...For without Him we cannot be a nation governed by His Spirit by a nation governed by the human heart which is wicked
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First off, I do not believe that McVeigh either targeted or intended to kill those children. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that he was as horrified as any of the rest of us when he found out, after the fact, that there was a daycare in the Murrah building and that children were among the casualties. I [personally think his stoic appearance hid a tormented soul for that aspect of his actions. So in that regard, I have difficulty judging him to be evil and condemning him any more than say, an Air Force pilot who who bombs a Chinese embassy in Belgrade or sailors who launch Tomahawk missiles against targets that later turn out have not been of any military importance. I don't believe anyone is being asked to condone the killing of innocents, but rather to see the hypocrisy of looking the other way when our own government does it for their own interests and causes yet condemning any other government or individual for similar acts.
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