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Posted: 5/17/2024 10:37:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: I think that requires MB 229.5/MB 229.51 specification oil, I'd be looking for one that actually lists it. Those are relatively tough, IMHO, standards. I know that foxtrot doesn't have significant preferences between OTC oils, but I would tend to get the M1 or Castrol, which ever is cheaper. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By midcap: does it make a difference which Euro Oil 5w40 I get from walmart for my CLS550? THey keep QuakerState, Valvoline, Castrol and Mobil 1 in stock. specification oil, I'd be looking for one that actually lists it. Those are relatively tough, IMHO, standards. I know that foxtrot doesn't have significant preferences between OTC oils, but I would tend to get the M1 or Castrol, which ever is cheaper. looks like the M1 and Valv Euro both are good for 229.5....that works for me. They only like $25 for 5 quarts and I'll need 8.5 qts. Now I just have to get a filter |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 10:57:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gtdhw: Almost 20 years of using ZDDP additive in the same engines (hyd. flat tappet) that get the absolute shit beat out of them, yet still function perfectly (with no rebuilds), says I will continue to do so. Off the shelf available everywhere and zero ill side effects. If it's wrong, I just will stay wrong, as the results are excellent. Over 40 years of not using it. Same results. I’ve got engines made in 60’s, 80’s, and 90’s. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 12:31:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: looks like the M1 and Valv Euro both are good for 229.5....that works for me. They only like $25 for 5 quarts and I'll need 8.5 qts. Now I just have to get a filter Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By midcap: does it make a difference which Euro Oil 5w40 I get from walmart for my CLS550? THey keep QuakerState, Valvoline, Castrol and Mobil 1 in stock. specification oil, I'd be looking for one that actually lists it. Those are relatively tough, IMHO, standards. I know that foxtrot doesn't have significant preferences between OTC oils, but I would tend to get the M1 or Castrol, which ever is cheaper. looks like the M1 and Valv Euro both are good for 229.5....that works for me. They only like $25 for 5 quarts and I'll need 8.5 qts. Now I just have to get a filter I do all sorts of weird, non-Foxtrot08 approved oil stuff, and a huge amount of the engines I maintain have a completely different filter than specified, but its very hard to go wrong with an OEM filter, especially for more niche applications like that. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 12:46:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oldgold: Over 40 years of not using it. Same results. I've got engines made in 60's, 80's, and 90's. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oldgold: Originally Posted By Gtdhw: Almost 20 years of using ZDDP additive in the same engines (hyd. flat tappet) that get the absolute shit beat out of them, yet still function perfectly (with no rebuilds), says I will continue to do so. Off the shelf available everywhere and zero ill side effects. If it's wrong, I just will stay wrong, as the results are excellent. Over 40 years of not using it. Same results. I've got engines made in 60's, 80's, and 90's. You can make a better additive package, abet more expensive, that has zero ZDDP, if you wanted. It seems like everyone forgets that current API oils are in fact tested to deal with flat tappets (Sequence IIIG), and the very similar situation of OHC engines with buckets, not rollers (Sequence IVA). They don't need huge amounts of ZDDP to do that, since they have additive packages with lots of calcium, boron, etc. ZDDP is very analogous in both time and technology to a M1 Garand. Does it work, sure, but it is 1930s technology. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 1:39:09 PM EDT
[#5]
For my Honda with stuck rings and burns a quart every 500-100 miles I have read so many things. Pull plugs and soak with certain Mopar or GM cleaners, do this multiple times, etc. If I just run some high Ester oil, like you guys mention here, will it help? Buy a case or two of Redline and try it? @foxtrot08
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Posted: 5/17/2024 3:20:06 PM EDT
[#6]
What's your opinion on PennGrade (formerly Bradpenn) straight 50w for high horsepower applications?
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Posted: 5/17/2024 3:22:44 PM EDT
[#7]
can I put seafoam in the gas tank?
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:29:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zoe17: For my Honda with stuck rings and burns a quart every 500-100 miles I have read so many things. Pull plugs and soak with certain Mopar or GM cleaners, do this multiple times, etc. If I just run some high Ester oil, like you guys mention here, will it help? Buy a case or two of Redline and try it? @foxtrot08 Two different ways to solve the problem. Both in theory can work, because once the rings start moving they’re sort of self cleaning. Or supposed to be. Easter’s will soften the deposits. Cleaners and solvents can as well when used directly like that too. Just depends on how big of a pain in the ass pulling the plugs are and soaking it. Vs changing the oil. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:30:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high-drag_low-speed: What's your opinion on PennGrade (formerly Bradpenn) straight 50w for high horsepower applications? I think ARG products are generally good. Abit weird because they use their own base oils. Which are extremely unique because of the old Bradford refinery. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2024 10:43:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Lots of good info in this thread!
I recently bought a late 90's Ford Superduty with the 7.3 turbo diesel. I was thinking to myself, it's just an old school diesel, it shouldn't be that picky about oil. Then I started learning more about how they actually work, with the high pressure pump supplying oil to the injectors! I don't know if that's common in diesels, since this is my first, but I can see why they recommend a good synthetic! |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 10:52:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Volstag: Lots of good info in this thread! I recently bought a late 90's Ford Superduty with the 7.3 turbo diesel. I was thinking to myself, it's just an old school diesel, it shouldn't be that picky about oil. Then I started learning more about how they actually work, with the high pressure pump supplying oil to the injectors! I don't know if that's common in diesels, since this is my first, but I can see why they recommend a good synthetic! Oh boy, if you are just new to diesels you are about to venture into the wide world of retardation. Sure the ricers are retarded, but the diesel bros take that retardation to levels never before seen in the history of man. |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 11:43:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Delo 400 SDE Kendall Super DXA / P66 Guardol ECT Citgo Citguard 700 Those would be my top flavors currently. I had a look this weekend at a local farm store, and came away with a question. @Foxtrot08, what's the difference between Citgo Citguard 700 vs Citguard 800? Or is it no difference? I didn't have the time to read the bottles, GF was being a pain, I just noticed more 800 on the shelf. 
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Posted: 5/20/2024 11:49:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jasoncar40: I had a look this weekend at a local farm store, and came away with a question. @Foxtrot08, what's the difference between Citgo Citguard 700 vs Citguard 800? Or is it no difference? I didn't have the time to read the bottles, GF was being a pain, I just noticed more 800 on the shelf. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jasoncar40: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Delo 400 SDE Kendall Super DXA / P66 Guardol ECT Citgo Citguard 700 Those would be my top flavors currently. I had a look this weekend at a local farm store, and came away with a question. @Foxtrot08, what's the difference between Citgo Citguard 700 vs Citguard 800? Or is it no difference? I didn't have the time to read the bottles, GF was being a pain, I just noticed more 800 on the shelf. C800 is their all in one oil. So it covers Diesels, CNG, LNG and I believe some gasoline specs? It is a very, very different formulation than c700. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2024 12:04:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Any recommendations on oil analysis for someone that just does at-home oil changes, and
is it worth spending the money v. just doing oil changes? (Changes cost me about $35 per, Mobile 1 + OEM filters, Subaru 2.4L turbo engines and a beater ford 5.4L.) |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 12:25:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seek2: Any recommendations on oil analysis for someone that just does at-home oil changes, and is it worth spending the money v. just doing oil changes? (Changes cost me about $35 per, Mobile 1 + OEM filters, Subaru 2.4L turbo engines and a beater ford 5.4L.) Black stone is the easiest for consumers. I still like the oillab. I would do an oil analysis every 2-3 oil changes just to maintain a base line so like… every 20-30k miles. This way it’s just a quick check up on your vehicle. Make sure things aren’t too skewed. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2024 12:47:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Black stone is the easiest for consumers. I still like the oillab. I would do an oil analysis every 2-3 oil changes just to maintain a base line so like… every 20-30k miles. This way it’s just a quick check up on your vehicle. Make sure things aren’t too skewed. Thanks for the feedback! Would doing an analysis on the factory fill (first change is coming up) make sense for the baseline, or would that be thrown off with assembly lubes, etc and better to do it just before the second change? I got the sense that Subaru's factory fill wasn't the same as their normal oil but haven't been able to confirm anything. |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 12:51:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seek2: Thanks for the feedback! Would doing an analysis on the factory fill (first change is coming up) make sense for the baseline, or would that be thrown off with assembly lubes, etc and better to do it just before the second change? I got the sense that Subaru's factory fill wasn't the same as their normal oil but haven't been able to confirm anything. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seek2: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Black stone is the easiest for consumers. I still like the oillab. I would do an oil analysis every 2-3 oil changes just to maintain a base line so like… every 20-30k miles. This way it’s just a quick check up on your vehicle. Make sure things aren’t too skewed. Thanks for the feedback! Would doing an analysis on the factory fill (first change is coming up) make sense for the baseline, or would that be thrown off with assembly lubes, etc and better to do it just before the second change? I got the sense that Subaru's factory fill wasn't the same as their normal oil but haven't been able to confirm anything. I wouldn’t do it till the second oil change personally. First one is going to have the factory fill oil in it. And any initial break in. Second one will still be slightly contaminated with factory fill oil. Third one will be mostly clean. So second or third for a base line personally. |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 2:27:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: ZDDP is absolutely ancient technology as far as additives go, and has some significant downsides. Foxtrot has already pointed out the sludge issue. I've seen it poison a couple of catalytic converters as well. You can make a better additive package, abet more expensive, that has zero ZDDP, if you wanted. It seems like everyone forgets that current API oils are in fact tested to deal with flat tappets (Sequence IIIG), and the very similar situation of OHC engines with buckets, not rollers (Sequence IVA). They don't need huge amounts of ZDDP to do that, since they have additive packages with lots of calcium, boron, etc. ZDDP is very analogous in both time and technology to a M1 Garand. Does it work, sure, but it is 1930s technology. I have a big bock mopar that wiped TWO cams in the early/mid 2000's right when the zinc was removed from the oil. I don't know if that was the cause, but that's what everyone blamed back then. I currently have a solid flat tappet (my engine builder convinced me a solid roller wasn't worth it), but it only has 400 miles on it, so barely broke in. Are you saying I don't need to use Penngrade or an oi with zinc in it from the factory? Or are you talking about zinc additives added to oil after the fact? Bottom line, what do I put in this thing? Cost is not really a concern. |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 6:36:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lee-online]
[#19]
So my Subaru Sti has been getting serviced at the dealer with Subaru 5w30 syn, now that the warranty has expired I'm going to do the service myself. The Subaru online sellers all stock Motul and even have oil change kits.
What Motul product? there are too many to choose from. Seems like most people bump up to 10w40 from the recommended 5w30. Isn't thicker oil giving more pressure but less flow? 300V is overkill for my use so 8100 seem the next choice but there are 8100 X-cess. 8100 X-clean, 8100 ECO-lite and 8100 Eco-nergy. EDIT, Motul X-cess meets Porsche A40 and MB229.3/229.5 specs which are the toughest specs in the industry so that would be a good choice. Whatever I use, ill continue to monitor it with oil analysis as I have done it every oil change since new. I'll be doing my trans and diffs with Motul 75w90. |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 8:53:37 PM EDT
[#20]
My "HD/Lowes" truck is a F150 with the 5.4. It has 220K miles on it and I have no idea if the phasers have been changed but I assume they have based on the mileage. Would 5W30 oil help prolong it's life vs the 5W20 that is recommended by Ford? I drive it less than 500 miles a year.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2024 9:34:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: Oh boy, if you are just new to diesels you are about to venture into the wide world of retardation. Sure the ricers are retarded, but the diesel bros take that retardation to levels never before seen in the history of man. Well, retarded and me kinda go together!  That's kinda why I bought this one. 99 F-550 less than 150,000 on the clock, with a six speed manual, 4wd. No DEF, established platform, no EGR problems, I think.  I just need a heavy truck to haul or tow heavy stuff locally a few times a year. This one is rusty, has no extra features and is in a configuration nobody wanted. That would be an 11 foot Knapheide tool box work body.Got it fairly cheap, and am in the process of removing the tool box, and installing a flat dump bed. By the time I fix the little stuff, and get it on the road, I'll still have less than $10,000 in it, and have way more truck than an F-350, which is what I was looking for. |
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Posted: 5/21/2024 12:13:44 AM EDT
[#22]
@Foxtrot08 a couple of questions:
Redline SL-1 says it is for gasoline engines. Is there a PEA fuel cleaner for diesel engines? (low pressure mechanical direct injected engines, not common rail) I've been using Rotella T5 in my Cummins R2.8, Ford 6.7 PSD, all my diesel generators, and even my ATV. If it proves too hard to acquire Citgo Citguard 700 or Chevron Dell SDE 400 locally, am I okay to go back to Motorcraft diesel oil in the Ford (and maybe all the others as well)? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2024 10:58:19 AM EDT
[#23]
I have a question related to Dexos1. I have a 2011 Silverado with 5.3l that OEM recommends the use of 5w-30 Dexos1 oils. It's always had Dexos1 full synthetic used in it. Now that it's at 130,000 miles I was looking at using full synthetic for high milage like Pennzoil. I've never seen a high milage full synthetic with a Dexos1 license marking.
What or why does a high quality high milage full synthetic not meet Dexos1 spec? Does the seal additives decrease the quantity of other additives so the oil can not meet the spec? Oil can only hold so much additive depending on chemistry and size of the additives. |
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Posted: 5/21/2024 11:15:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Oil Filter Question-
I noticed that several recent passenger car filters I bought in recent months, didn't have a functional anti-drainback valve. I could blow air backwards through them...and these were premium filters (Wix XP and a AC Delco PF63E). I looked at several others that appeared to still have the anti-drainback function. Is that a big deal and does it depend on the orientation of the filter when mounted, IE if the filter sits canister down, it can't drainback anyway? Do you have a general recommendation for oil filters? |
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Posted: 5/21/2024 11:39:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FoxValleyTacDriver]
[#25]
Not car oil related but,
I got a gallon of that bio-synxtra CLP you recommended in one of the cleaning sub forums and it works great. Cleans good for a clp, good lubricity, meets mil-spec, and it's non-toxic. Thanks for that, I like this stuff. BIO syn Xtra CLP  Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2024 11:49:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seek2: Thanks for the feedback! Would doing an analysis on the factory fill (first change is coming up) make sense for the baseline, or would that be thrown off with assembly lubes, etc and better to do it just before the second change? I got the sense that Subaru's factory fill wasn't the same as their normal oil but haven't been able to confirm anything. |
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Posted: 5/21/2024 11:55:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NS68RT: I have a big bock mopar that wiped TWO cams in the early/mid 2000's right when the zinc was removed from the oil. I don't know if that was the cause, but that's what everyone blamed back then. I currently have a solid flat tappet (my engine builder convinced me a solid roller wasn't worth it), but it only has 400 miles on it, so barely broke in. Are you saying I don't need to use Penngrade or an oi with zinc in it from the factory? Or are you talking about zinc additives added to oil after the fact? Bottom line, what do I put in this thing? Cost is not really a concern. He’s saying that zinc additives added to an oil are not recommended because they can negatively react with the other anti wear additives in the oil. Lots of people got really hung up on the idea of zddp as an anti wear additive, not realizing that there are other, frequently better things used in modern oil formulations. If the oil you’re using now works, keep using it. |
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Posted: 5/21/2024 12:19:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Volstag: Lots of good info in this thread! I recently bought a late 90's Ford Superduty with the 7.3 turbo diesel. I was thinking to myself, it's just an old school diesel, it shouldn't be that picky about oil. Then I started learning more about how they actually work, with the high pressure pump supplying oil to the injectors! I don't know if that's common in diesels, since this is my first, but I can see why they recommend a good synthetic! Pick any good 5w40, and make sure you keep it full. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 2:04:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Sorry. Traveling back to the U.S. I’ll catch up on this thread in a bit.
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Posted: 5/22/2024 4:40:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rock_Ranger: @Foxtrot08 a couple of questions: Redline SL-1 says it is for gasoline engines. Is there a PEA fuel cleaner for diesel engines? (low pressure mechanical direct injected engines, not common rail) I've been using Rotella T5 in my Cummins R2.8, Ford 6.7 PSD, all my diesel generators, and even my ATV. If it proves too hard to acquire Citgo Citguard 700 or Chevron Dell SDE 400 locally, am I okay to go back to Motorcraft diesel oil in the Ford (and maybe all the others as well)? Diesel fuel has a different set of issues than gasoline. Varnish and carbon build up is the issue with gasoline. Typically cold flow/cold filter plug point, lubricity, water and bacteria are the issues with diesel fuel. So no there’s not a one size fits most fix for diesel fuel. Motorcraft is fine - it’s very similar to P66 Fleet supreme EC or now P66 Guardol fleet EC. It’s not super amazing awesomeness. But it’s a solid 15w40. But Chevron should be around. Citgo is around at truck stops too. Etc. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 4:46:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Meche_03: I have a question related to Dexos1. I have a 2011 Silverado with 5.3l that OEM recommends the use of 5w-30 Dexos1 oils. It's always had Dexos1 full synthetic used in it. Now that it's at 130,000 miles I was looking at using full synthetic for high milage like Pennzoil. I've never seen a high milage full synthetic with a Dexos1 license marking. What or why does a high quality high milage full synthetic not meet Dexos1 spec? Does the seal additives decrease the quantity of other additives so the oil can not meet the spec? Oil can only hold so much additive depending on chemistry and size of the additives. So this is going to be a multi part answer. Full synthetic high mileage oils are, firstly a bit of an oxymoron. Because full synthetics are by nature, a high mileage oil because of the base oils they use. Where as synthetic blends typically need the seal swell additive. Secondly, Dexos approval require submission and engine sequence testing. Which is expensive. The main thing for “Dexos 1 Gen 3” approval, is it has a 13% Noack rate. API SP is 15%. But it’s just easier now for everything to meet the 13% requirement for a full synthetic. Third. You have to pay GM for every gallon sold. So it becomes at a certain point, not cost effective to pay for the GM licensing. It’s almost 50 cents per gallon that GM earns for no reason essentially. Especially when it’s only going to be part of your market share. And people will buy it anyways. The reason why it doesn’t carry the Dexos approval is simply financial. Not wanting to pay for the GM testing for their base oil blends. And also not wanting to pay the GM licensing fees per gallon. Especially for a rather niche (and useless) product that has limited sales. They will never make that money back. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 4:49:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC: Oil Filter Question- I noticed that several recent passenger car filters I bought in recent months, didn't have a functional anti-drainback valve. I could blow air backwards through them...and these were premium filters (Wix XP and a AC Delco PF63E). I looked at several others that appeared to still have the anti-drainback function. Is that a big deal and does it depend on the orientation of the filter when mounted, IE if the filter sits canister down, it can't drainback anyway? Do you have a general recommendation for oil filters? On passenger vehicles, 95% of the time I use OEM filters. The other 5% I use Napa because of our relationship with our Napa store chain that sells my fleet. On heavy duty - we are a Donaldson direct distributor. So we use Donaldson primarily, followed by OEM (CAT and such) followed by Napa again. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 4:50:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver: Not car oil related but, I got a gallon of that bio-synxtra CLP you recommended in one of the cleaning sub forums and it works great. Cleans good for a clp, good lubricity, meets mil-spec, and it's non-toxic. Thanks for that, I like this stuff. BIO syn Xtra CLP https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/285899/1000011024_png-3219940.JPG Made down the road from me. Ironically the VP of the company called me yesterday to check in. I have to call him tomorrow when I’m back. But good people. I’m trying to sell a good amount of their products on the industrial side. Just expensive for large quantities. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 10:44:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Great thread!
A few comments: 1) heat treat, lobe design, cam grind and finish, tappet shape and finish, tappet bore alignment, etc. play a big role in camshafts living through break in. If you are buying from one of the big brands (Comp, Crane, etc.) you are *generally* not getting a premium product. Plenty of smaller cam grinders out there (Bullet and Jones are who I like personally) that source higher quality blanks and have much better process control over the finished cam. I've run direct lobe oiling through EDM holes on the lifter face for NASCAR-style mechanical flat tappet lobes for a long time with zero issues using Brad Penn oils as recommended by my cam grinder. These lobes are the absolute hardest on that lifter/lobe interface. Would love to hear if Foxtrot has an opinion on the BP stuff. 2) I would have to dig up my notes for more info, but while Ethanol is a good solvent in fuel in general, E85 from several gas station chains has alcohol-insoluble compounds in it that can result in brown or black "goo" building up in the intake tract, on injectors, and on valves over time. Gumout used to make an E85 specific cleaner that had Methylal in it which works well to dissolve the deposits (or keep them from forming) but the best is to just use a gas station that has a better quality E85. Not sure how easily you can buy methylal since I was working in a lab myself when I tested it. 3) Lots of the turbo guys are using the John Deere hydraulic fluid in their high end GM transmissions instead of Dextron/Mercon or F-Type. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 11:13:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: On passenger vehicles, 95% of the time I use OEM filters. The other 5% I use Napa because of our relationship with our Napa store chain that sells my fleet. On heavy duty - we are a Donaldson direct distributor. So we use Donaldson primarily, followed by OEM (CAT and such) followed by Napa again. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Originally Posted By FedDC: Oil Filter Question- I noticed that several recent passenger car filters I bought in recent months, didn't have a functional anti-drainback valve. I could blow air backwards through them...and these were premium filters (Wix XP and a AC Delco PF63E). I looked at several others that appeared to still have the anti-drainback function. Is that a big deal and does it depend on the orientation of the filter when mounted, IE if the filter sits canister down, it can't drainback anyway? Do you have a general recommendation for oil filters? On passenger vehicles, 95% of the time I use OEM filters. The other 5% I use Napa because of our relationship with our Napa store chain that sells my fleet. On heavy duty - we are a Donaldson direct distributor. So we use Donaldson primarily, followed by OEM (CAT and such) followed by Napa again. FYI for the group, NAPA filters are Wix. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 11:46:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: So this is going to be a multi part answer. Full synthetic high mileage oils are, firstly a bit of an oxymoron. Because full synthetics are by nature, a high mileage oil because of the base oils they use. Where as synthetic blends typically need the seal swell additive. Secondly, Dexos approval require submission and engine sequence testing. Which is expensive. The main thing for “Dexos 1 Gen 3” approval, is it has a 13% Noack rate. API SP is 15%. But it’s just easier now for everything to meet the 13% requirement for a full synthetic. Third. You have to pay GM for every gallon sold. So it becomes at a certain point, not cost effective to pay for the GM licensing. It’s almost 50 cents per gallon that GM earns for no reason essentially. Especially when it’s only going to be part of your market share. And people will buy it anyways. The reason why it doesn’t carry the Dexos approval is simply financial. Not wanting to pay for the GM testing for their base oil blends. And also not wanting to pay the GM licensing fees per gallon. Especially for a rather niche (and useless) product that has limited sales. They will never make that money back. Thanks. Good to know. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 11:50:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Foxtrot08]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Great thread! A few comments: 1) heat treat, lobe design, cam grind and finish, tappet shape and finish, tappet bore alignment, etc. play a big role in camshafts living through break in. If you are buying from one of the big brands (Comp, Crane, etc.) you are *generally* not getting a premium product. Plenty of smaller cam grinders out there (Bullet and Jones are who I like personally) that source higher quality blanks and have much better process control over the finished cam. I've run direct lobe oiling through EDM holes on the lifter face for NASCAR-style mechanical flat tappet lobes for a long time with zero issues using Brad Penn oils as recommended by my cam grinder. These lobes are the absolute hardest on that lifter/lobe interface. Would love to hear if Foxtrot has an opinion on the BP stuff. 2) I would have to dig up my notes for more info, but while Ethanol is a good solvent in fuel in general, E85 from several gas station chains has alcohol-insoluble compounds in it that can result in brown or black "goo" building up in the intake tract, on injectors, and on valves over time. Gumout used to make an E85 specific cleaner that had Methylal in it which works well to dissolve the deposits (or keep them from forming) but the best is to just use a gas station that has a better quality E85. Not sure how easily you can buy methylal since I was working in a lab myself when I tested it. 3) Lots of the turbo guys are using the John Deere hydraulic fluid in their high end GM transmissions instead of Dextron/Mercon or F-Type. Brad Penn stuff is decent. Or was? Abit niche. They were fairly recently sold to DA Lubricants. I’m not sure if any of their formulations changed or not. I buy a few products from them - a mineral seal oil and their 40w 11TBN rail road engine oil. They pretty much have a stranglehold on the rail road engine oil market. Being zinc free. They also have unique base oils because of the old Kendall refinery. They make a cut higher than anyone else that’s not bright stock. Using tractor hydraulic is an interesting take. I’d just use something like TES668 as its bomb proof but essentially just a full synthetic dex 3 on steroids. You have a lot of additives in tractor hydraulic fluids that simply aren’t needed in transmission fluids. But hey whatever works for them. Niche market and also aftermarket stuff. Who knows. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 12:07:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rock_Ranger: FYI for the group, NAPA filters are Wix. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rock_Ranger: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Originally Posted By FedDC: Oil Filter Question- I noticed that several recent passenger car filters I bought in recent months, didn't have a functional anti-drainback valve. I could blow air backwards through them...and these were premium filters (Wix XP and a AC Delco PF63E). I looked at several others that appeared to still have the anti-drainback function. Is that a big deal and does it depend on the orientation of the filter when mounted, IE if the filter sits canister down, it can't drainback anyway? Do you have a general recommendation for oil filters? On passenger vehicles, 95% of the time I use OEM filters. The other 5% I use Napa because of our relationship with our Napa store chain that sells my fleet. On heavy duty - we are a Donaldson direct distributor. So we use Donaldson primarily, followed by OEM (CAT and such) followed by Napa again. FYI for the group, NAPA filters are Wix. that actually just changed from what I understand...NAPA is made in china now  We Had To Swap Out All The Oil Filters In Our Shop! starts at 1:30 so basically NAPA shit canned wix as a supplier (which is made in USA) and went over to china to sell out the USA and send more money to communist CHINA. Fuck NAPA...they will sell out all of us for a dollar. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 12:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DamascusKnifemaker]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: that actually just changed from what I understand...NAPA is made in china now  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8kbR7YlVOMstarts at 1:30 so basically NAPA shit canned wix as a supplier (which is made in USA) and went over to china to sell out the USA and send more money to communist CHINA. Fuck NAPA...they will sell out all of us for a dollar. NAPA has went to shit on lots of stuff. I ordered a window regulator for a 2014 Wrangler from NAPA thinking I would get a better-quality unit than the Dorman unit it would be replacing. I paid about 20% more for the NAPA unit and on the way home the NAPA label fell off and revealed NAPA had stuck their label over a Dorman label. 
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Posted: 5/22/2024 12:21:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: that actually just changed from what I understand...NAPA is made in china now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8kbR7YlVOMstarts at 1:30 so basically NAPA shit canned wix as a supplier (which is made in USA) and went over to china to sell out the USA and send more money to communist CHINA. Fuck NAPA...they will sell out all of us for a dollar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By Rock_Ranger: Originally Posted By Foxtrot08: Originally Posted By FedDC: Oil Filter Question- I noticed that several recent passenger car filters I bought in recent months, didn't have a functional anti-drainback valve. I could blow air backwards through them...and these were premium filters (Wix XP and a AC Delco PF63E). I looked at several others that appeared to still have the anti-drainback function. Is that a big deal and does it depend on the orientation of the filter when mounted, IE if the filter sits canister down, it can't drainback anyway? Do you have a general recommendation for oil filters? On passenger vehicles, 95% of the time I use OEM filters. The other 5% I use Napa because of our relationship with our Napa store chain that sells my fleet. On heavy duty - we are a Donaldson direct distributor. So we use Donaldson primarily, followed by OEM (CAT and such) followed by Napa again. FYI for the group, NAPA filters are Wix. that actually just changed from what I understand...NAPA is made in china now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8kbR7YlVOMstarts at 1:30 so basically NAPA shit canned wix as a supplier (which is made in USA) and went over to china to sell out the USA and send more money to communist CHINA. Fuck NAPA...they will sell out all of us for a dollar. The filter industry is wild. I was just with the former CEO of Champ labs for a week in Europe. He’s now the CEO of Peek / Old world industries. I buy mostly OEM for a reason - or Donaldson. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2024 12:24:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: that actually just changed from what I understand...NAPA is made in china now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8kbR7YlVOMstarts at 1:30 so basically NAPA shit canned wix as a supplier (which is made in USA) and went over to china to sell out the USA and send more money to communist CHINA. Fuck NAPA...they will sell out all of us for a dollar. Must have just changed. Two days ago I bought NAPA Gold filters, and they are WIX. Haven't watched the video yet, so if it's true, I'll switch to O'Reilly's, as they have several shelves of WIX filters to choose from, oil and air. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:36:10 AM EDT
[#42]
Thanks again for us to be able to use your knowledge on engine oils to answer some of our questions...
What are your thoughts on 540rat's blogon his oil rankings and his methodology getting there. Thank you... |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:40:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Igloo87: Thanks again for us to be able to use your knowledge on engine oils to answer some of our questions... What are your thoughts on 540rat's blogon his oil rankings and his methodology getting there. Thank you... He’s a mechanical engineer and he hits some good points. We agree a lot on things. It’s been a while since I paged through it. But I believe he is very brand focused, which is what he knows. And that’s fine. I’m very brand agnostic because I look at fundamentally what the product is going to bring to the table in terms of formulation. But I’m not going to sit and hate too much. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 8:56:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Hey Fox...I was reading over the above link, quite the mass of info, and was wondering about his conclusions. I'm using Pennzoil Ultra in my Bronco, and he shows it as a good oil but not the best. I see he likes Quaker State Full Syn Gen2 and Gen3 is rated better than my Pennzoil. By the way, Amazon is showing the Quaker State as Gen2, but I imagine it's just an old pic. Anyway, what's your opinion on his chart. I read your post above.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2024 9:08:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: maslin02]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: looks like the M1 and Valv Euro both are good for 229.5....that works for me. They only like $25 for 5 quarts and I'll need 8.5 qts. Now I just have to get a filter Don’t forget 229.5 vs .51 and .52. Just to make it easier. Foxtrot, any input on why blue Mercedes ATF turns rubber to plastic? It ruins the hoses on our Samson and Graco pumps, as well as the Napa barrel pumps. Turns the rubber hoses rock hard. Red and clear/yellow ATF don’t hurt them. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:39:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TomMcC: Hey Fox...I was reading over the above link, quite the mass of info, and was wondering about his conclusions. I'm using Pennzoil Ultra in my Bronco, and he shows it as a good oil but not the best. I see he likes Quaker State Full Syn Gen2 and Gen3 is rated better than my Pennzoil. By the way, Amazon is showing the Quaker State as Gen2, but I imagine it's just an old pic. Anyway, what's your opinion on his chart. I read your post above. They’re both SOPUS products. Shell products United States. They’re both extremely similar formulas. QS has waffled on using the GTL base oils. Pennzoil uses GTL. I particularly like GTL base oils. As the semi arbitrary “Group 3+” group they’re in. I don’t see how one can really split hairs between those two. Particularly when it comes from Dexos. Like the technical differences are so small it’s almost essentially impossible to tell. And the B10 of your engine isn’t going to change literally, at all, statistically. Assuming the same price, I’d grab the pennzoil if I bought SOPUS products. But really, I can’t emphasize enough that there is literally going to be no statistical difference in the reality of the engine. It’s going to come down to the machining, metallurgy, fuel, etc. first. |
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Posted: 5/23/2024 10:41:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maslin02: Don’t forget 229.5 vs .51 and .52. Just to make it easier. Foxtrot, any input on why blue Mercedes ATF turns rubber to plastic? It ruins the hoses on our Samson and Graco pumps, as well as the Napa barrel pumps. Turns the rubber hoses rock hard. Red and clear/yellow ATF don’t hurt them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maslin02: Originally Posted By midcap: looks like the M1 and Valv Euro both are good for 229.5....that works for me. They only like $25 for 5 quarts and I'll need 8.5 qts. Now I just have to get a filter Don’t forget 229.5 vs .51 and .52. Just to make it easier. Foxtrot, any input on why blue Mercedes ATF turns rubber to plastic? It ruins the hoses on our Samson and Graco pumps, as well as the Napa barrel pumps. Turns the rubber hoses rock hard. Red and clear/yellow ATF don’t hurt them. Base oils.  PAO’s love to eat rubber. Like absolutely love to eat rubber. I’m not super in tune with what MB is using in their transmission fluids. But I’m guessing it’s going to basically be a straight PAO. And it will do that. TES295 used to do that. One reason why they went to TES 668 with Allison automatics. 295 was a straight pao based Dex 3. 668 is a Group 3 / Ester based Dex 3. |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 10:21:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Lake Speed Jr. test Valvoline Restore and Protect oil.
 INSIDE Valvoline's SECRET R&D Laboratory to UNCOVER the TRUTH |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 7:48:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Foxtrot08,
Can you comment upon US gasoline sulphur levels now compared to Euro gasoline sulphur levels? Thank you! |
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Posted: 5/25/2024 9:43:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Base oils. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/baseoils-532924.jpg PAO’s love to eat rubber. Like absolutely love to eat rubber. I’m not super in tune with what MB is using in their transmission fluids. But I’m guessing it’s going to basically be a straight PAO. And it will do that. TES295 used to do that. One reason why they went to TES 668 with Allison automatics. 295 was a straight pao based Dex 3. 668 is a Group 3 / Ester based Dex 3. Will use of redline oil eat my seals? Is it formulated so that is not an issue? I know it’s a blend of ester and pao |
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