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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:14:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. From talking with wardens, there are two types of violators. Average dudes who either get caught up in the moment, misinterpret the regs, make a mistake, or take game out of economic necessity. Then there are dudes like this, habitual offenders who are more or less “thrill killers.” They have complete disregard for the rules and are sort of the serial killers of the poaching world. These are the guys they really want to catch. I would be willing to bet they were already on this guys case for a bit before he took the record buck, based on the number of indictments and the length of time they occurred over. As for the “social media” metadata stuff, that’s a whole other civil rights issue outside of wildlife. You want to get mad about government overreach? Go do some research on LE using 3rd party location and credit card data to find crime without a warrant. There was an article recently where ATF busted a guy in NY or NJ for having an homemade Glock using 3rd party data. Bottom line, by and large wildlife management is one of the few areas where government has a necessary purpose, and not only that, they have done a pretty decent job at it as well. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:36:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. One of the Northwoods Law or Texas Law shows I watched recently had a case where they took DNA samples and ran tests from some samples they took, so they can get pretty serious if they choose. I don’t know of any professional poachers I’ve been acquainted with, but I’ve known quite a few recreational hunters and fishermen that pushed the limit on everything they did just for bragging rights. I heard enough of them to know that if there weren’t anyone enforcing the laws they could put a dent in game and fish populations. Trying to one up everyone else, I’ve known a handful that absolutely would night hunt or trespass. Trespassing and poaching can lead to accidental shootings and should be dealt with pretty severely. If you’re on land you’re supposed to be on, one of the benefits is knowing you can walk to your stand without worrying if someone is hunting in an area you walk through. Catching a trespasser or poacher even accidentally can get ugly as well. |
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ZWE
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:43:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DubyaB: How do you feel about property rights? Trespassing charge is fine but I'll never understand people obsessed with hunting and deer jackers. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:45:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 8nbait: He was not charged with spotlighting and killing a deer. He was just charged with shinning a light on wildlife. Imagine you are your buddy are 1/2 mile outside of a town by a church like this guy and a buck crosses the road at night in from of you. You stop and pull a flashlight out of the glove box and get a better look at the deer. THis would be a crime in Ohio. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 8nbait: Originally Posted By ZW17: What is the charge of Jacklighting? Is that spotlighting? He was not charged with spotlighting and killing a deer. He was just charged with shinning a light on wildlife. Imagine you are your buddy are 1/2 mile outside of a town by a church like this guy and a buck crosses the road at night in from of you. You stop and pull a flashlight out of the glove box and get a better look at the deer. THis would be a crime in Ohio. It's basically the same as spotlighting. It's not illegal to shine a flashlight at wildlife. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-1533.161 |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:47:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Who gets that serious about deer: I mean you shoot it, pull off the back straps and have the rest turned into summer sausage and deer sticks so you can bring them to every party and act like it’s better than anything else ever made:
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:48:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: One of the Northwoods Law or Texas Law shows I watched recently had a case where they took DNA samples and ran tests from some samples they took, so they can get pretty serious if they choose. I don’t know of any professional poachers I’ve been acquainted with, but I’ve known quite a few recreational hunters and fishermen that pushed the limit on everything they did just for bragging rights. I heard enough of them to know that if there weren’t anyone enforcing the laws they could put a dent in game and fish populations. Trying to one up everyone else, I’ve known a handful that absolutely would night hunt or trespass. Trespassing and poaching can lead to accidental shootings and should be dealt with pretty severely. If you’re on land you’re supposed to be on, one of the benefits is knowing you can walk to your stand without worrying if someone is hunting in an area you walk through. Catching a trespasser or poacher even accidentally can get ugly as well. There's something to be said for the type of person that does this being a danger in general. Constant disrespect for laws and rules just for the thrill is psychopathic behavior, and involving weapons generally raises alarms. So I get the "ticking time bomb" aspect of it. I find a ton of laws pointless or unconstitutional, but that doesn't mean I can ignore them at my leisure because there are still consequences and unfortunately "that's a stupid and pointless law" doesn't hold up in court. But to some people, they don't care. And yeah, something like trespassing is definitely asking for trouble, given the landowner you may not know at all, and night hunting (at least the way idiots used to do it back home) can be extremely dangerous. Coming at a case like this from that standpoint would make it more palatable, but like I said some of the things they mentioned definitely gave me pause in the sense of having a hard time believing wildlife officers have that kind of power. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:52:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: John_Wayne777]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: Maybe he's a poacher, or maybe Ohio is taking a page from the West Virginia playbook. https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2022/11/24/officers-lose-their-trophies-they-chose-poorly/ This. I don't automatically believe the government narrative in these types of cases. There are plenty of shitbag poachers out there, too. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:57:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: In before the guys complaining about “Muh King’s deer!” Yep. You beat me to it 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:55:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: To make some argument that state fish and game agencies are akin to the most bloated and corrupt parts of our federal government is laughable. In Ohio there is exactly one ODNR Officer per each county. My county, a rural county, we have hundreds of active officers working at different agencies and exactly one to enforce wildlife law. Not to mention, in my almost 30 years afield I’ve interacted with exactly 3 wildlife officers. You could poach for years and get away with it if you were smart about it. Compared to any other regulated activity, enforcement of wildlife law is pretty lax. When I killed a 197” B&C buck a few years ago did I get harassed by the ODNR? Nope. Didn’t even get a phone call. I’m sure they probably looked at the coordinates when I validated my landowner game check, but that’s probably about it. (As they should.) Shit, I didn’t even buy a hunting license that year as I only hunted my own property (not required per state law.) Is there government overreach going on in this county that is bloated and needs cut back? Sure. But does that include state wildlife agencies that are largely self funded via license and tag sales? I don’t see it, especially when in large part they are doing a good job of exactly the thing they were put in place to do. Do they get shit wrong sometimes? No doubt, and ours certainly hears from me when they are getting it wrong. But I also know why they exist, and I wouldn’t want them to go away. This guy was a serial offender. He is exactly the guy we pay our wildlife agencies to catch. Arguing against wildlife enforcement in this thread is, let’s just say odd. I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. The indictments didn't say that, it was posters in the thread. I'm not sure it's been said how ODNR got the information they did. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tsg68]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Would never trust someone with that beard. “Honest Abe” my ass…. 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 12:10:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: It's a deer. Who gives a flying fuck? They should be on the extinction list. Why we allow these things to wander into highways and destroy property is an enigma to me. If they are destroying property, you can get a depridation permit to kill them, out of season. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:47:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE: The indictments didn't say that, it was posters in the thread. I'm not sure it's been said how ODNR got the information they did. I think this paragraph in the article linked, led a lot of people to believe they tracked his phone… “Wildlife officers discovered through warranted searches of cellphone data that Christopher Alexander had illegally hunted the trophy buck on private property about 10 miles from his sister’s land” |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:19:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AttachedFile: That's kinda why I ask. How does jealousy or such validate getting a warrant? What were the grounds for a judge giving the ok for a warrant? I understand someone seeing it on a trail cam or something the same day some distance away. Not directed at you and not defending the guy, just curiosity. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AttachedFile: Originally Posted By Texaspyro21: Originally Posted By AttachedFile: So what made them question the kill from the start? Is there a fenced in pay to hunt place down the road with big bucks he took it from or??? Also, never underestimate the jealousy of some people who aren't happy at what other people kill. Then there's those who think that because they've never killed a buck that big, the hunter must have done it illegally. That's kinda why I ask. How does jealousy or such validate getting a warrant? What were the grounds for a judge giving the ok for a warrant? I understand someone seeing it on a trail cam or something the same day some distance away. Not directed at you and not defending the guy, just curiosity. This shit bird did an hours long interview not long after he killed the deer. I heard it. It was obvious he was lying about the entire thing. Any experienced hunter knew he was lying. And game wardens have heard it all and I am sure they knew from the beginning they too knew he was lying. It just took a little time to get the digital evidence and get the deadbeat's friends to roll over on him. For those who don't hunt big game, it seems like a trivial trespassing issue. It is anything but that. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:22:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: To make some argument that state fish and game agencies are akin to the most bloated and corrupt parts of our federal government is laughable. In Ohio there is exactly one ODNR Officer per each county. My county, a rural county, we have hundreds of active officers working at different agencies and exactly one to enforce wildlife law. Not to mention, in my almost 30 years afield I’ve interacted with exactly 3 wildlife officers. You could poach for years and get away with it if you were smart about it. Compared to any other regulated activity, enforcement of wildlife law is pretty lax. When I killed a 197” B&C buck a few years ago did I get harassed by the ODNR? Nope. Didn’t even get a phone call. I’m sure they probably looked at the coordinates when I validated my landowner game check, but that’s probably about it. (As they should.) Shit, I didn’t even buy a hunting license that year as I only hunted my own property (not required per state law.) Is there government overreach going on in this county that is bloated and needs cut back? Sure. But does that include state wildlife agencies that are largely self funded via license and tag sales? I don’t see it, especially when in large part they are doing a good job of exactly the thing they were put in place to do. Do they get shit wrong sometimes? No doubt, and ours certainly hears from me when they are getting it wrong. But I also know why they exist, and I wouldn’t want them to go away. This guy was a serial offender. He is exactly the guy we pay our wildlife agencies to catch. Arguing against wildlife enforcement in this thread is, let’s just say odd. I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. I had sex with a game warden’s daughter in high school. Every time I hunted birds, a warden would show up, check my plug, license, and look for something to ticket me for. I got a ticket for fishing without a license while on the way to my truck to get my wallet/license (you have to carry it on your person). For about 4-5 years (until that particular GW retired or transferred or something) I’d always get pulled over and searched during deer season. I’m ok with enforcing fish/game laws, but GW aren’t perfect people either. Game wardens have a degree of latitude in searching or entry that most cops don’t- some of them abuse that. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 2:10:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tsg68: “Honest Abe” my ass…. https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HU66xivUPWg/WkDt13dOp4I/AAAAAAAAOf0/qYJTh6qXLa8aN12Wuq6oneJqsoTpwNnFwCEwYBhgL/s1600/Lincoln-2.jpg Well there was that civil war thing 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 2:20:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyBroshankle: It's a single fucking deer. If you are reading this and want to tax, arrest or shoot someone over a shooting a wild animal that isn't rare or on the verge of extinction, you need to look in the mirror and seek God. Tyrants everywhere. No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:04:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. Wait, so I’m not a patriot because I don’t believe in anarchy when it comes to wildlife management @BigBurkeyBoy? This fucking place…  I’m not quite sure how some of you people function in day to day real life. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:15:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:25:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tsg68: Lol, he still shot a record buck… Yes he did. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:02:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: Wait, so I’m not a patriot because I don’t believe in anarchy when it comes to wildlife management @BigBurkeyBoy? This fucking place… I’m not quite sure how some of you people function in day to day real life. Many don't. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:12:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: It's a deer. Who gives a flying fuck? They should be on the extinction list. Why we allow these things to wander into highways and destroy property is an enigma to me. Environmentalists read comments like this and think we're all retarded, and then get new laws passed to make it harder for us to use land for hunting. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:26:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Amish neckbeard
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:03:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By georgiaboy: Or, someone has spent time, effort, and money managing a property to hunt. Buying or leasing a property; putting in the time and money to put in stands, food plots, and feeders; paying taxes on the land; the list goes forever, just to have some trespassing shitstain come in and kill animals you've put the work in to develop. That tends to piss folks off. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By georgiaboy: Originally Posted By Texaspyro21: Also, never underestimate the jealousy of some people who aren't happy at what other people kill. Then there's those who think that because they've never killed a buck that big, the hunter must have done it illegally. If you catch game cam pics of the dude doing it, pics of the deer mins before it was shot (and the hunter claims it was miles away) or, and this is going to be controversial, you're high fenced, then I agree. Otherwise, bucks wander a large area, and that dude is innocent until proven guilty. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:10:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyBroshankle: Trespassing charge is fine but I'll never understand people obsessed with hunting and deer jackers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyBroshankle: Originally Posted By DubyaB: How do you feel about property rights? Trespassing charge is fine but I'll never understand people obsessed with hunting and deer jackers. Come on out one night and walk around when I'm pred hunting under nods, maybe you'll learn something. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:18:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:21:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: Originally Posted By RandyBroshankle: It's a single fucking deer. If you are reading this and want to tax, arrest or shoot someone over a shooting a wild animal that isn't rare or on the verge of extinction, you need to look in the mirror and seek God. Tyrants everywhere. No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. @BuckeyeRifleman this thread is a gold mine for your other thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2722563_Most-insane-takes-you-ve-seen-in-arfcom-GD.html |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:24:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE: @BuckeyeRifleman this thread is a gold mine for your other thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2722563_Most-insane-takes-you-ve-seen-in-arfcom-GD.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE: Originally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: Originally Posted By RandyBroshankle: It's a single fucking deer. If you are reading this and want to tax, arrest or shoot someone over a shooting a wild animal that isn't rare or on the verge of extinction, you need to look in the mirror and seek God. Tyrants everywhere. No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. @BuckeyeRifleman this thread is a gold mine for your other thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2722563_Most-insane-takes-you-ve-seen-in-arfcom-GD.html Haha yup! @AJE GD hunting threads are always grade A entertainment. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:43:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: This. Nowadays with as many cameras as there are in the woods a highly recognizable deer like that is on someone’s radar. If you shoot it and put it in the newspaper and say you shot it in a certain area and someone else has it a couple of hours earlier at a feeder twenty miles away on camera, there’s a good chance they’re making a phone call. Feeders are illegal in OH. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:09:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Dumber-626396-187.jpg People don’t think market hunting be like it is, but it do. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/68059/IMG_2179_png-3212483.JPG Two deer per person in the picture. How many states allow more than one deer per season? |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:10:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Feeders are illegal in OH. No they’re not. I don’t personally use them, but last I checked they are 100% legal on private land. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:18:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Why is this even an issue?
Did the guy, shoot towards another human? A house? Endanger anyone??? He shot a wild animal, the state would prefer to have that animal waste away and rot in a garbage dump than eaten by a family. Unless that guy was trespassing or putting others in danger, who cares. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:19:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperHeavy: Why is this even an issue? Did the guy, shoot towards another human? A house? Endanger anyone??? He shot a wild animal, the state would prefer to have that animal waste away and rot in a garbage dump than eaten by a family. Unless that guy was trespassing or putting others in danger, who cares. Uh, he was trespassing. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:33:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: Nationwide means a roughly identical agency in every state. No, it's not a federal agency. That's why I used the word nationwide and not the word federal. I have hunted for 30 years and fished for almost 40. I have worked with stocking and conservation organizations in two states. This is from me, not from any "anarcho-libertarian" website. Nobody really cares much about this. I did not say anything about any species other than the whitetail deer. For example, I know elk are not as widespread as they used to be. But somehow elk, a very, very similar animal to a whitetail deer, have, through extensive conservation management, been reestablished in some states. In PA, this means they've gone from a population of zero a hundred years ago to 1400 now. But the whitetail deer in Ohio have gone from zero (supposedly) to about 750,000 over that time period. Why are there 50 times as many deer? Instead of automatically assuming the premise is true, it would make more sense to question whether the numbers were accurate in the first place. But go ahead, continue to put words in my mouth. You're essentially arguing that government intervention is necessary everywhere in every state because of what happened in one state even if that very specifically didn't happen in another state. I'm saying that because conservation efforts are necessary or successful in some cases doesn't mean they are automatically necessary in all cases. In my decades living in OH, I saw it go from a deer sighting was something special to them being mile markers in certain areas where they were previously never seen. The reintroduction and management of deer in OH was started a century ago, and the reintroduction of elk is much more recent, less than 30 years. That would explain the difference in numbers, along with the habitat requirements of the two species. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:54:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: No they’re not. I don’t personally use them, but last I checked they are 100% legal on private land. It may have changed since I stopped hunting, but it was illegal to bait deer. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 5:07:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: No they’re not. I don’t personally use them, but last I checked they are 100% legal on private land. Except those three or four counties up north that have CWD. No baiting allowed there. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:56:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: Dude, the White tailed deer was considered extirpated from Ohio in 1909 and then reintroduced in 1922. 200 deer were reintroduced between 1922 and 1930. There wasn’t a hunting season for deer in the state until 1947 and only 8500 permits were sold, only 168 hunters were successful. Last year 213,928 people harvested a deer in the state. You can repeat this same story for virtually every state in the nation, all easily verified, factual information. This isn’t some conspiracy amongst the “fish cops” to keep “big government” control over wildlife. It’s just what happened. Saying it didn’t is one of the most retarded things I’ve read on this site. Of course wildlife populations are “estimates.” They are wild animals, so of course we don’t know exact numbers. But in the early 1900s when no one was seeing any deer, we knew we had a problem. Shit my dad remembers it being a huge deal to see a deer in the early 1960s. We have people alive who remember how bad it was. I never saw my first deer track until the 1970’s. And I stayed in the woods. Now they’re everywhere. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:01:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: It may have changed since I stopped hunting, but it was illegal to bait deer. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:04:38 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FS7: I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. . He wasn’t in uniform? I’ve had good and bad reactions with DNR. But they’ve always been in uniform. About half assume you are guilty from the start. Even on your own land. About half are a$$holes. If the guy is guilty, throw the book at him. But make sure the evidence is sound. And big whitetails have been known to roam miles during the rut. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:52:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: I had sex with a game warden’s daughter in high school. Every time I hunted birds, a warden would show up, check my plug, license, and look for something to ticket me for. I got a ticket for fishing without a license while on the way to my truck to get my wallet/license (you have to carry it on your person). For about 4-5 years (until that particular GW retired or transferred or something) I’d always get pulled over and searched during deer season. I’m ok with enforcing fish/game laws, but GW aren’t perfect people either. Game wardens have a degree of latitude in searching or entry that most cops don’t- some of them abuse that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By FS7: Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: To make some argument that state fish and game agencies are akin to the most bloated and corrupt parts of our federal government is laughable. In Ohio there is exactly one ODNR Officer per each county. My county, a rural county, we have hundreds of active officers working at different agencies and exactly one to enforce wildlife law. Not to mention, in my almost 30 years afield I’ve interacted with exactly 3 wildlife officers. You could poach for years and get away with it if you were smart about it. Compared to any other regulated activity, enforcement of wildlife law is pretty lax. When I killed a 197” B&C buck a few years ago did I get harassed by the ODNR? Nope. Didn’t even get a phone call. I’m sure they probably looked at the coordinates when I validated my landowner game check, but that’s probably about it. (As they should.) Shit, I didn’t even buy a hunting license that year as I only hunted my own property (not required per state law.) Is there government overreach going on in this county that is bloated and needs cut back? Sure. But does that include state wildlife agencies that are largely self funded via license and tag sales? I don’t see it, especially when in large part they are doing a good job of exactly the thing they were put in place to do. Do they get shit wrong sometimes? No doubt, and ours certainly hears from me when they are getting it wrong. But I also know why they exist, and I wouldn’t want them to go away. This guy was a serial offender. He is exactly the guy we pay our wildlife agencies to catch. Arguing against wildlife enforcement in this thread is, let’s just say odd. I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. I had sex with a game warden’s daughter in high school. Every time I hunted birds, a warden would show up, check my plug, license, and look for something to ticket me for. I got a ticket for fishing without a license while on the way to my truck to get my wallet/license (you have to carry it on your person). For about 4-5 years (until that particular GW retired or transferred or something) I’d always get pulled over and searched during deer season. I’m ok with enforcing fish/game laws, but GW aren’t perfect people either. Game wardens have a degree of latitude in searching or entry that most cops don’t- some of them abuse that. Are you trying to say that Dad did not "approve" of you bangin' his daughter? |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:03:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyBroshankle: It's a single fucking deer. If you are reading this and want to tax, arrest or shoot someone over a shooting a wild animal that isn't rare or on the verge of extinction, you need to look in the mirror and seek God. Tyrants everywhere. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:59:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Two deer per person in the picture. How many states allow more than one deer per season? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:01:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: georgiaboy]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 30calTBLkid: If you catch game cam pics of the dude doing it, pics of the deer mins before it was shot (and the hunter claims it was miles away) or, and this is going to be controversial, you're high fenced, then I agree. Otherwise, bucks wander a large area, and that dude is innocent until proven guilty. The hunter did claim it was miles away. Ten miles I think is what I read. Can you clarify for me, are you saying that if I don't high fence my entire property, they're not trespassing? I'm well aware that deer move around. Not across the county though. If the poacher says he killed a deer that my neighbors and I see on the regular ten miles away, he wasn't trespassing? I don't have to prove he was trespassing to know that he's full of shit. That's enough to look further. Notice the rabbit sheriff's didn't just run out and kick his door in; they did search warrants, compared locations, did interviews. You know, they did their jobs. I've owned 50+acres for a lot of years. If owning land has taught me anything it's that people are completely entitled FSA when it comes to going where they want and fishing/hunting my land. I've had a running chore keeping people off my land, and they act like I should just let them access it. I've literally had people cuss at me for hunting my own stand when they wanted to sit there that morning. Before you say "got a gun", go ahead and point a gun at another over a misdemeanor trespassing. They see you from 50 yards away, and start yelling, what you gonna do? climb down and chase them? Good luck. Wing them so they'll be there when the law finally arrives, again good luck. I've paid tens of thousands to maintain my land and pay the government their rent each year. Quite frankly, the idea that I should have to high fence my entire property to avoid tempting trespassers is absurd. If I want to hunt it once every five years and only kill mosquitoes that's my business. It doesn't give anyone else the right to come on my land because I'm selfish with my deer. It damn sure doesn't give some little meth-billy shit-stain like the one pictured the right to come on my land because I have developed something nice, and he wants it. If he leases the property next door, fine. If he owns a half acre a half mile down the road and the deer is standing in his front yard, great. If he drove 10 miles across town from his family land (that even his own family won't let him hunt), fuck him. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:08:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: georgiaboy]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheJudgeHolden: If being the number one biggest typical buck in all of recorded history in Ohio and the number three biggest all time in the entire United States of America isn't "rare" then I don't know what is... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheJudgeHolden: Originally Posted By RandyBroshankle: It's a single fucking deer. If you are reading this and want to tax, arrest or shoot someone over a shooting a wild animal that isn't rare or on the verge of extinction, you need to look in the mirror and seek God. Tyrants everywhere. If being the number one biggest typical buck in all of recorded history in Ohio and the number three biggest all time in the entire United States of America isn't "rare" then I don't know what is... I'm amazed how quickly GD goes from cussing about the Free Shit Army and Amish thieves to defending trespassers like they are the righteous defenders of true freedom. If someone trespassed in your living room would that be ok? They're just watching your TV; they don't have one so it's ok. Same logic. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:17:31 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AttachedFile: That's kinda why I ask. How does jealousy or such validate getting a warrant? What were the grounds for a judge giving the ok for a warrant? I understand someone seeing it on a trail cam or something the same day some distance away. Not directed at you and not defending the guy, just curiosity. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AttachedFile: Originally Posted By Texaspyro21: Originally Posted By AttachedFile: So what made them question the kill from the start? Is there a fenced in pay to hunt place down the road with big bucks he took it from or??? Also, never underestimate the jealousy of some people who aren't happy at what other people kill. Then there's those who think that because they've never killed a buck that big, the hunter must have done it illegally. That's kinda why I ask. How does jealousy or such validate getting a warrant? What were the grounds for a judge giving the ok for a warrant? I understand someone seeing it on a trail cam or something the same day some distance away. Not directed at you and not defending the guy, just curiosity. I can assure you the Nazis in my area have all of their big bucks named from Trail camera footage and the person who owned the property that came from probably has footage of him just a few minutes prior to him being poached. Also get a load of the restitution calculation formula at the end of the article. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:25:43 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By georgiaboy: The hunter did claim it was miles away. Ten miles I think is what I read. Can you clarify for me, are you saying that if I don't high fence my entire property, they're not trespassing? I'm well aware that deer move around. Not across the county though. If the poacher says he killed a deer that my neighbors and I see on the regular ten miles away he wasn't trespassing. I don't have to prove he was trespassing to know that he's full of shit. That's enough to look further. Notice the rabbit sheriff's didn't just run out and kick his door in; they did search warrants, compared locations, did interviews. You know, they did their jobs. I've owned 50+acres for a lot of years. If owning land has taught me anything it's that people are completely entitled FSA when it comes to going where they want and fishing/hunting my land. I've had a running chore keeping people off my land, and they act like I should just let them access it. I've literally had people cuss at me for hunting my own stand when they wanted to sit there that morning. Before you say "got a gun", go ahead and point a gun at another over a misdemeanor trespassing. They see you from 50 yards away, and start yelling, what you gonna do? climb down and chase them? Good luck. Wing them so they'll be there when the law finally arrives, again good luck. I've paid tens of thousands to maintain my land and pay the government their rent each year. Quite frankly, the idea that I should have to high fence my entire property to avoid tempting trespassers is absurd. If I want to hunt it once every five years and only kill mosquitoes that's my business. It doesn't give anyone else the right to come on my land because I'm selfish with my deer. It damn sure doesn't give some little meth-billy shit-stain like the one pictured the right to come on my land because I have developed something nice, and he wants it. If he leases the property next door, fine. If he owns a half acre a half mile down the road and the deer is standing in his front yard, great. If he drove 10 miles across town from his family land (that even his own family won't let him hunt), fuck him. My statement was adding to a previous statement. In that, if if someone could prove that the deer was on a property other than the property the hunter claimed it was on at the time of the shoot, or that the deer never left a property, or had evidence that the guy trespassed, then things would be a lot easier. I don't care if you high fence or not, it'd be pointless on a 50 acre postage stamp. Thanks for the rant, I guess. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:40:09 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigBurkeyBoy: No shit. Everyone here talks about being a minuteman, a patriot, ready to fight the system, capping redcoats etc. and then they go off on a kid for killing one of the king's deer. You guys have no idea what type of person it takes to fight tyranny. But I can give you a hint: it ain't the kind of guy who follows the fucking DNR regs. OK, so the moral of this story is; Always leave your cell phone at home Don't tell anyone where you are going Hunt private hard to reach places Get the deer out as quickly and quietly as possible so no one sees or hears you Under no circumstances do you take a picture of anything ever butcher the deer in an isolated place make your own European mount and hang where NO ONE but you will ever see Do not ever tell anyone else If the game warden shows up say Warrant, Lawyer Does this cover everything or did I miss something???? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:43:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oldgold: He wasn’t in uniform? I’ve had good and bad reactions with DNR. But they’ve always been in uniform. About half assume you are guilty from the start. Even on your own land. About half are a$$holes. If the guy is guilty, throw the book at him. But make sure the evidence is sound. And big whitetails have been known to roam miles during the rut. I couldn't tell. He was wearing a jacket, I remember, since it was early trout season and typical weather is often overcast and misty. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 1:33:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Are you trying to say that Dad did not "approve" of you bangin' his daughter? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By FS7: Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: To make some argument that state fish and game agencies are akin to the most bloated and corrupt parts of our federal government is laughable. In Ohio there is exactly one ODNR Officer per each county. My county, a rural county, we have hundreds of active officers working at different agencies and exactly one to enforce wildlife law. Not to mention, in my almost 30 years afield I’ve interacted with exactly 3 wildlife officers. You could poach for years and get away with it if you were smart about it. Compared to any other regulated activity, enforcement of wildlife law is pretty lax. When I killed a 197” B&C buck a few years ago did I get harassed by the ODNR? Nope. Didn’t even get a phone call. I’m sure they probably looked at the coordinates when I validated my landowner game check, but that’s probably about it. (As they should.) Shit, I didn’t even buy a hunting license that year as I only hunted my own property (not required per state law.) Is there government overreach going on in this county that is bloated and needs cut back? Sure. But does that include state wildlife agencies that are largely self funded via license and tag sales? I don’t see it, especially when in large part they are doing a good job of exactly the thing they were put in place to do. Do they get shit wrong sometimes? No doubt, and ours certainly hears from me when they are getting it wrong. But I also know why they exist, and I wouldn’t want them to go away. This guy was a serial offender. He is exactly the guy we pay our wildlife agencies to catch. Arguing against wildlife enforcement in this thread is, let’s just say odd. I have heard of stories of bad interactions with fish cops. I've never had one. I've maybe interacted with one twice in my life, and one time the guy didn't even mention he was a warden until after we'd talked for a while. I'm not arguing against enforcement. And yeah, I knew plenty of people in PA that did stuff like this (assuming this is true), and I don't care for it, not just because it's bad land management but because it gives hunters a bad name for a variety of reasons. But when I see something like this I usually think a few different things, ranging from "I'm glad all of the real problems in the world are solved" and "I can't believe they spend this much time and effort on pursuing a poacher." It's not just like they caught him jacklighting and taking a shot at an animal from the side of the road at night. I'm reading about warrants and cell phone metadata used to prosecute a case of poaching. That is insane to me, and there's a huge difference between game warden day to day enforcement and something like this. I had sex with a game warden’s daughter in high school. Every time I hunted birds, a warden would show up, check my plug, license, and look for something to ticket me for. I got a ticket for fishing without a license while on the way to my truck to get my wallet/license (you have to carry it on your person). For about 4-5 years (until that particular GW retired or transferred or something) I’d always get pulled over and searched during deer season. I’m ok with enforcing fish/game laws, but GW aren’t perfect people either. Game wardens have a degree of latitude in searching or entry that most cops don’t- some of them abuse that. Are you trying to say that Dad did not "approve" of you bangin' his daughter? That would certainly seem to be the case. I damned sure wasn’t the only one who did, btw. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 3:58:49 PM EDT
[#49]
So do they now check everyone cell records on the day they report harvesting? Complete government overreach buy the fish cops
if so screw taking your phone along. Just take a good old camera for photos |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:42:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clutchsmoke: You can feed them but it's illegal to hunt over a food pile. It’s 100% legal to hunt over food, except in the 3-4 counties that have known CWD. Unfortunately, it’s one of those things that if you don’t hunt over bait, you’re probably missing out on opportunities because your neighbors all are. I don’t like baiting, but it’s almost a must do. |
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