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Link Posted: 5/12/2024 11:49:42 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By JAD762:
If only they hired a few more redundant vice presidents, this all could have been avoided.
View Quote

This

How much money can they put into profit is all that matters....not security or better infrastructure or better patient systems
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 11:50:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OKnativeson] [#2]
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Originally Posted By SARS:


Nowhere I've ever worked is even remotely efficient during downtime. Important therapies and drugs are often delayed or missed.

A lot of the downtime forms I've seen are horribly inefficient printouts of electronic forms that are nearly unreadable due to being long and awkward. Going into downtime isn't a shift back to when there was an efficient paper process. It's a total shit show.

Difficult and slower is a big fucking deal when caring for critically ill patients.

I'd like to see the leadership of these organizations that replace competent Americans with shitty third worlders to save a buck in the short term be punished appropriately. It won't happen of course.
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spot on.
its a legitimate nightmare.
patient care is completely jeopordized.
without a doubt people will die and or be incapacitated in some way from the situation.

we broke all 4 heavy duty system copiers on friday making triplicate copies for lab reporting. stalled everything. when you run critically low staffed personnel levels with all systems operating correctly, downtime takes 4-6X people or even more.

there is no one to handle it.

even if it were all corrected and we were back up running monday or tuesday, it would take a month for all results to be entered into the LIS system.

I could go into further details of the situation on my end, but I think I would be in a very gray area with Corporate.

the situation is critical.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 11:52:58 AM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By PacNW5:


Something like 80% of companies pay the ransom
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the largest hospital in the State - St Francis, negotiated with the ransomers and paid the negotiated amount. FBI was UBER PISSED

1 for negotiating privately without the FBI knowledge
2 for paying it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 11:58:10 AM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By PacNW5:


https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-charges-russian-national-developing-and-operating-lockbit-ransomware

The U.S. Justice Department unsealed charges today against a Russian national for his alleged role as the creator, developer, and administrator of the LockBit ransomware group from its inception in September 2019 through the present. At times, LockBit was the most prolific ransomware group in the world.

Khoroshev allegedly acted as the LockBit ransomware group’s developer and administrator from its inception in or around September 2019 through May 2024. Khoroshev and his affiliate coconspirators, grew LockBit into what was, at times, the most active and destructive ransomware variant in the world. The LockBit ransomware group attacked more than 2,500 victims in at least 120 countries, including 1,800 victims in the United States. LockBit victims included individuals, small businesses, multinational corporations, hospitals, schools, nonprofit organizations, critical infrastructure, and government and law-enforcement agencies. Khoroshev and his co-conspirators extracted at least $500 million in ransom payments from their victims and caused billions of dollars in broader losses, such as lost revenue, incident response, and recovery.

n addition, as previously announced, law enforcement developed decryption capabilities that may enable hundreds of victims around the world to restore systems encrypted using the LockBit ransomware variant. Victims targeted by this malware are encouraged to contact the FBI at https://lockbitvictims.ic3.gov/ to enable law enforcement to determine whether affected systems can be successfully decrypted.
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we should sanction russia. that would teach them.



Link Posted: 5/12/2024 11:59:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Didn't United Healthcare go through this a month or two ago. i think they paid.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:07:55 PM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By Waldo:

They need to go back to keeping your medical records in a filing cabinet.
View Quote



Needing more medical records personnel
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:12:19 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By Kingdead:
At this point let's do it. I'm not saying the US is innocent in foreign affairs, but fucking with healthcare is universally not beneficial to mankind.
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Originally Posted By Kingdead:
Originally Posted By Bubbles:

We'd likely end up going to war with Russia.
At this point let's do it. I'm not saying the US is innocent in foreign affairs, but fucking with healthcare is universally not beneficial to mankind.


Has this been proved to be a Russian Government operation?
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:14:04 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By brahm:
Didn't United Healthcare go through this a month or two ago. i think they paid.
View Quote
Their subsidiary (change) that's basically a claims processing company, used by lots of insurance companies other than UH, did.

The impacts of that are still ongoing, vendors and providers all across the country got hosed, and at minimum, needed to refile up to a months worth of claims (and pay for the privilege).
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:14:34 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By brahm:


we should sanction russia. that would teach them.



View Quote


There seem to be a lot of Russians involved in Cyber Crime. Obviously, many of their young people have the technical skills but they continue to choose the criminal path to use them.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:17:26 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By brahm:
Didn't United Healthcare go through this a month or two ago. i think they paid.
View Quote


Change Healthcare/Optum Insight. Owned by UHG, but not the insurance provider.

Medical, dental, and vision claims processing, routing, and analytics. Along with ~95% of the e-prescriptions in the US, and something like 98% of the not in house lab orders and results publishing. Amongst other, lesser criticality items in the healthcare data space.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:18:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Critical equipment should be airgapped from the internet.

So should patient data.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:19:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:22:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:24:26 PM EDT
[#14]
My dr's office went through a ransomware attack recently. Sign of the times
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:27:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:32:41 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

This is the general state of IT security in the majority of healthcare today. if you want a good laugh read the congressional testimony on the change healthcare breach. 70% of the market share of pharmacy billing and the level of just outright negligence is astounding. Executives need to be in jail for that one.
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And that's what they couldn't hide, explain away, or throw someone under the bus for. Three months of a genuine security audit would have you ready to burn down data centers.

It was way worse than what the testimony would have you believe. Sadly, prior to the silicone valley pirates moving in to the C-suite and reimagining the company, Emdeon had pretty good security and network design.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:40:00 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By M82Assault:
Critical equipment should be airgapped from the internet.

So should patient data.
View Quote


Not possible, patient info has to be sent to insurance companies, legal firms, outside labs, healthcare companies, other hospitals, etc.

Hospital cybersecurity should be of paramount importance but is often an afterthought or underfunded. There is a lot of moving pieces for a hospital to function securely
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:46:40 PM EDT
[#18]
As much as I despise all the various stuff my company's IT security team has in place, things like this remind me why.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:51:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
Going to become more common with Change Healthcare paying the ransom earlier this year.
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They've all paid. CHI paid, UHG paid, Ascension will pay, and there are even more you haven't heard about who paid.

That's the entire reason it keeps happening. In the end, everyone in healthcare pays.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 12:54:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
a lot of folks don't realize this is bigger than 1 healthcare group getting hit and going offline.

Their facilities have data connections to other facilities in the areas as well. those facilities now have to sever connections and begin threat hunting  internally to ensure nothing crossed to them as well. we are going to likely find blackbasta was in their network for months before encrypting them.  That's the norm for that group. no telling what 3rd party fallout may come from this as well.
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We have a huge increase in processing because of all the providers that have lost EDI because of Change.  I suspect more soon after this Ass-cension thing.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:02:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer] [#21]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:08:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:11:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:12:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bubbles:

We'd likely end up going to war with Russia.
View Quote


and we're not right now?

let's get it over with already.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:14:22 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
Is this related to Ascension's decision to hire ~500 H1B workers over the past few years?  
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that program needs to end right the fuck now.  and then deport all of those visa holders.  

total scam operation.  I've bounced off h1b fools since the late 90s.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:16:54 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By The_Fly:
Yet another healthcare system that cut every possible corner on their IT infrastructure, and is going to get fucked hard and proper as a result.

View Quote


when you start looking at IT support the way you look at janitors, this is the inevitable result.  

saw it from the inside for 20+ years at big enterprise, gtfo and now I'm much more relaxed.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:18:23 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By 9divdoc:

Has this been proved to be a Russian Government operation?
View Quote
No.  

Why would Putin stop Russian techies from extorting cash from American companies?

Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:21:12 PM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By elmidgeto:


Change Healthcare/Optum Insight. Owned by UHG, but not the insurance provider.

Medical, dental, and vision claims processing, routing, and analytics. Along with ~95% of the e-prescriptions in the US, and something like 98% of the not in house lab orders and results publishing. Amongst other, lesser criticality items in the healthcare data space.
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Originally Posted By elmidgeto:
Originally Posted By brahm:
Didn't United Healthcare go through this a month or two ago. i think they paid.


Change Healthcare/Optum Insight. Owned by UHG, but not the insurance provider.

Medical, dental, and vision claims processing, routing, and analytics. Along with ~95% of the e-prescriptions in the US, and something like 98% of the not in house lab orders and results publishing. Amongst other, lesser criticality items in the healthcare data space.

Change also ran EDGE servers for some payers and HEDIS support.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:21:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:21:59 PM EDT
[#30]
is my Hippo compromised?
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:23:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:24:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Lets face it:

Nearly all IT at every medical institution is outsourcing bigly

Security in those outsourcing outfits is shit. Below shit.

Front door has lots of gates and locks. Back door is as wide open as a pornstar with a line of coke on the table.

Hell, even the "experts" like OKTA, Microsoft, and LastPass have all been in the news cuz they have such a soft underbelly.

Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:26:42 PM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By 9divdoc:



Needing more medical records personnel
View Quote


life's a bitch.  

hard to hold paper records ransom.  

small clinic I supported was/is 100% paper for primary record keeping, they do the required emr shit because they have to.  server/software downtime just slows down their ability to schedule new appointments.  that's it.  son of the founder has the same attitude his father had - computers and networks are for convenience.  start relying on them for critical functions and you have now created new methods for your business to fail.  claiming it's to save money is ignoring the true costs to keep them secure and redundant enough to recover from simple failures, let alone deliberate attacks. if you don't spend the money to make it redundant and secure, AND TEST IT, you're going to get bit.  not a question of if.  when.  btdt on the enterprise backup side of things.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:26:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Mayo Clinic stops attacks multiple times a day.

No other business has as much information as a healthcare company…
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:28:01 PM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
https://therecord.media/cybersecurity-regulations-healthcare-industry-anne-neuberger-rsa


She went on to criticize UnitedHealth Group for not having patient data encrypted in Change Healthcare unit, a subsidiary, before it was hacked earlier this year. Neuberger argued that if the data had been properly protected, the ransomware gang that breached company networks would not have been able to do much with it.

View Quote


The ironic part here, is that of the dozen or so copies of the data lake CHC maintenance in various places, about half were encrypted at rest and in flight.

The other half were application dependent that required a full DB copy, and at rest or in flight encryption broke those applications hard.

The C-suite loved to tout the encrypted and secured portions of the environment, and pull the see no, hear no, speak no routine on the rest. And woe betide any admin, engineer, or ops that tried to improve anything.

So damn glad to be done with that place and IT in general.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:29:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:34:20 PM EDT
[#37]
If I were president, I'd authorize air strikes on any nation state-sponsored cyber attacks.  If it was just hacker groups, I'd sanction the countries who failed to prevent the attacks.  If we don't get serious, these fucktards can bring the western world to its knees with little effort.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:37:42 PM EDT
[#38]
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:


paper records get stolen all the time. former job we routinely had bankers boxes of medical records come up "missing" from clinic offices.
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understand.  but a few boxes of records is not the entire dataset ransomware encrypted.  

there are costs associated with every choice.  one big basket just makes it more likely for the entire basket to be impacted.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 1:50:41 PM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
No.  

Why would Putin stop Russian techies from extorting cash from American companies?

View Quote


In countries with high corruption rates, it's very easy for cyber criminals to just pay off the local police forces, especially when their targets are all foreigners.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 2:01:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAD762:
If only they hired a few more redundant vice presidents, this all could have been avoided.
View Quote


The president/CEO needs to have a lot of yes-men and yes-women.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 2:04:55 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By xciapup:
Lack of nurses.

Doctors are owned by the AMA and CDC and employees of hospital owners.

Big pharma bribing and lying.

Processed foods.

Virtually no digital security.  (Hippa LOL)

Illegals flooding the system and not paying a dime.

That is where we are.
View Quote

Link Posted: 5/12/2024 2:26:26 PM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By OKnativeson:



absolutely.
their IT dept made me want to throw cats into lawnmowers some days.
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Originally Posted By OKnativeson:
Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
Is this related to Ascension's decision to hire ~500 H1B workers over the past few years?  



absolutely.
their IT dept made me want to throw cats into lawnmowers some days.


Just think of all the money they saved by outsourcing IT to another country!
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 2:37:58 PM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By Bat15:


Just think of all the money they saved by outsourcing IT to another country!
View Quote



it didn't go for any pay increases for Allied Health Professionals.

I worked for them for 5 years and never got any raises or pay increases, despite being a 5 Star Employee with the highest of certifications. of course they paid my wife less money with more experience and the same credentials for the same job.

Ascension is an evil company that acts like a Mafia.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:06:33 PM EDT
[#44]
So …. This stems from severs not patched for an app vulnerability.  Ransomware built to exploit that vulnerability gets in and …. You have what Ascension and United Health experienced this year.

How about …. Patch all the servers?  Like …. 6-12 times a year, install all the patches for software installed on the server.  

Might that keep Russians out of the servers?
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:20:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:23:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By racer765:


when you start looking at IT support the way you look at janitors, this is the inevitable result.  

saw it from the inside for 20+ years at big enterprise, gtfo and now I'm much more relaxed.
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Originally Posted By racer765:
Originally Posted By The_Fly:
Yet another healthcare system that cut every possible corner on their IT infrastructure, and is going to get fucked hard and proper as a result.



when you start looking at IT support the way you look at janitors, this is the inevitable result.  

saw it from the inside for 20+ years at big enterprise, gtfo and now I'm much more relaxed.


Its why I've refused to work corporate IT in my career.  I've always done small business consulting and higher education.  I don't make quite as much money, but I also don't deal with outsourcing/layoff bullshit either.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:27:42 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
you would honest to god be amazed at the push back security teams get for simply making sys admins patch systems. especially in healthcare.
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Pushback from who?   Honest question-I want to understand this.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:34:36 PM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher:
If I were president, I'd authorize air strikes on any nation state-sponsored cyber attacks.  If it was just hacker groups, I'd sanction the countries who failed to prevent the attacks.  If we don't get serious, these fucktards can bring the western world to its knees with little effort.
View Quote

Pay the Big Guy 10%, and you'll get airstrikes.  
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:39:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAD762:
If only they hired a few more redundant vice presidents, this all could have been avoided.
View Quote




Add some DEI hires to really seal the deal.
Link Posted: 5/12/2024 3:48:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

They need to go back to keeping your medical records in a filing cabinet.
View Quote


One of the largest volume gun stores in my area still does transactions on paper books. Has since i can recall. You buy a gun there, the sales booklet is filled out and you get a carbon copy. I always thought that smart. Tangible is better than digital. Especially with the heat that business takes.
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