User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:17:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Clearly, the faggots consider that "threatening" because anyone but them having a gun is a threat. If we were to apply that same gay standard, I could just draw my CCW and legally shoot any cop I see on the street, for brandishing a gun that I feel threatened by. Obviously I would never do that, because for one that's not how the law works anywhere. And two, I am not a faggot who feels immediately threatened by another man possessing a gun in a non threatening manner. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By TresOsos: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By BCPVP: I can't think of any tactical/safety benefit to opening your door with a gun in hand but at your side. If you're concerned, why are you opening the door in the first place? If you're not concerned, why are you answering with a gun in hand on full display? The only reasons that make any sense are if you plan to shoot the person on the other side of the door or you want to make them think you will/might. Don't really understand the pushback on this. WI is an open carry state but that doesn't mean I can walk around town with a gun in my hand, even if I don't point it at anyone. Likewise, being on my property doesn't mean it's impossible for me to brandish a gun. Because the kid was doing nothing wrong. Opening the door with a pistol in your hand is perfectly legal. He was in his own fucking home, minding his own fucking business. And now he is dead. Due to a situation created entirely by the presence of a police officer, and justified by the uniform he was wearing. You don't understand the problem with this? i wouldn't call what I saw on video as Brandishing, thats a big stretch. Maybe homosexuals and heterosexuals have different interpretations of “brandishing”? Because the heterosexuals don’t believe this to be brandishing: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/583190/40104ADD-976E-402E-85B5-355CE3851CE4_jpe-3211762.JPG Clearly, the faggots consider that "threatening" because anyone but them having a gun is a threat. If we were to apply that same gay standard, I could just draw my CCW and legally shoot any cop I see on the street, for brandishing a gun that I feel threatened by. Obviously I would never do that, because for one that's not how the law works anywhere. And two, I am not a faggot who feels immediately threatened by another man possessing a gun in a non threatening manner. Yeah. Agreed. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:17:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: I've watched it many times already, Mr. Crump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By BCPVP: I understand that. Lug1 doesn't seem to because he's hung up on the fact that the gun was pointed downward being proof that it's not brandishing. Watch the video. Its manslaughter. Open and shut. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:18:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Amazon delivery driver rings the doorbell and you show up with a gun visible to them in your hand? Be fucking honest for a moment: if you saw it was a cop at your door, you're still going to answer it with a gun in your hand, on the off chance it's actually an criminal posing as a cop? Andrew Branca of the LawofSelfDefense.com is planning on discussing this case in further depth come Monday, but from the twitter responses I've seen so far, he recognizes this as lawful. I trust his evaluations far more than anyone on this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Absolute nonsense. It is well known and commonly accepted that criminals pose as delivery men, and cops to gain entry to rob and kill normal people. I have opened my door for people, with a gun in my hand, for this reason. SCOTUS has regularly affirmed the right to keep and bear arms. The most tested, proven and supported RTKBA is using a pistol in defense of self in the home. If the FL law of brandishing were appropriately applied as you describe, then it would be an unconstitutional law. Given the above, plenty of normal people regularly open the door ready to kill attackers. There are self defense trainers who teach to do that. Arguing that constitutes brandishing is complete nonsense. It's reasonable to assume that's what this guy did. Opened the door to see what someone claiming to be a Deputy wanted. He assumed the Deputy would not shoot him by taking up a defensive posture. The Deputy illegally shot him anyway. At no time did this guy show any aggression or intent to harm the Deputy. He kept his weapon pointed away and raised his off hand in a clear sign of submission. Amazon delivery driver rings the doorbell and you show up with a gun visible to them in your hand? Be fucking honest for a moment: if you saw it was a cop at your door, you're still going to answer it with a gun in your hand, on the off chance it's actually an criminal posing as a cop? Andrew Branca of the LawofSelfDefense.com is planning on discussing this case in further depth come Monday, but from the twitter responses I've seen so far, he recognizes this as lawful. I trust his evaluations far more than anyone on this thread. It's hard to tell for sure, but I don't think it was his intention to expose himself and his weapon so fully. I believe he only did so, because he thought the Deputy was still around the corner. I believe he likely looked out the peephole and never saw the deputy. I have opened the door for packages, with a gun in my hand, that I keep hidden from view. My entryway is different than this guys. I have also gone to the door for "police" while armed. But I didn't open the door, nor respond in any way. I was just prepared to shoot any police impersonator who might try to break in. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:19:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Wild animals are unpredictable and you can't necessarily know what actions might cause an attack. Like an acorn? Or doing a legal action within your own home? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:22:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Amazon delivery driver rings the doorbell and you show up with a gun visible to them in your hand? Be fucking honest for a moment: if you saw it was a cop at your door, you're still going to answer it with a gun in your hand, on the off chance it's actually an criminal posing as a cop? Andrew Branca of the LawofSelfDefense.com is planning on discussing this case in further depth come Monday, but from the twitter responses I've seen so far, he recognizes this as lawful. I trust his evaluations far more than anyone on this thread. Yeah, no shit it most likely “lawful”. In rainbow land does lawful also mean “necessary”? Morally acceptable? Any less contemptible? Any less dead? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:22:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Apparently so. It seems I've massively overestimated people's decision making skills on this forum. Good luck. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:24:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Dude, shootings like this are EXACTLY why some believe that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By jDrexler: It's sad when you guys don't even realize that you are basically arguing that us regular joes should interact with police with the same caution we would a wild animal. Exactly! Therefore the airman was prudent answering the door with a gun. It's unfortunate he did not appreciate the level of danger he was in. What danger would the airmen have likely faced if he had opened the door with no gun in hand? I guess you think the cops are always out hunting young black men for sport so the very existence of an officer at his door was a lethal threat? BLM-level thinking going on in this thread. Dude, shootings like this are EXACTLY why some believe that. I will never open the door for cops unless: 1. I called them 2. They are in what appears to be a correct uniform, and have marked cars visible, and claim to have a warrant. Even then, I will probably try to call the station to confirm it's them. Anything else the door stays closed. If they start trying to bust through, they are getting shot. Trusting someone at the door who says "police" or Sheriff's office is not smart these days. Even if it is the law, interacting with them when you don't have to is also dumb. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:31:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Apparently so. It seems I've massively overestimated people's decision making skills on this forum. Decision making skills? Like calling “shots fired, officer down” because you heard an acorn fall from a tree? |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:32:18 PM EDT
[#9]
The guy asked someone if they called the police after the police officer knocked and identified himself.
Opening the door to the Sherriff's office with a loaded 9mm is never a good idea. |
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:36:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Yeah, no shit it most likely “lawful”. In rainbow land does lawful also mean “necessary”? Morally acceptable? Any less contemptible? Any less dead? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Amazon delivery driver rings the doorbell and you show up with a gun visible to them in your hand? Be fucking honest for a moment: if you saw it was a cop at your door, you're still going to answer it with a gun in your hand, on the off chance it's actually an criminal posing as a cop? Andrew Branca of the LawofSelfDefense.com is planning on discussing this case in further depth come Monday, but from the twitter responses I've seen so far, he recognizes this as lawful. I trust his evaluations far more than anyone on this thread. Yeah, no shit it most likely “lawful”. In rainbow land does lawful also mean “necessary”? Morally acceptable? Any less contemptible? Any less dead? One of the threads that winds itself through every discussion like this is a pervasive belief that legal is equivalent to moral, and difficulty understanding that people can take serious issue with things that are currently deemed legal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:37:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: Really? Aikibiker posted the other video from them and this one, also from them, was the top suggested video for me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: Originally Posted By UV18: Using a video of a former cop that shot an unarmed black man....... good choice  Yep... 100% certain. An unarmed black man that was putting his hands down so an officer could grab them to place him in cuffs. He was then shot in the back from the person in that video. No weapons. No furtive movements and he was lowering his arms as directed by the officer getting ready to handcuff him. Nowadays, we would have seen protests, him charged, and a much bigger payout than what that person received. Here is a short story about it.... but there are tons more out there https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/barlow-orlando-1974-2003/ |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:41:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Apparently so. It seems I've massively overestimated people's decision making skills on this forum. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Jackslack: Originally Posted By BCPVP: A gun in hand, on display, for no other purpose. Opening the door with the gun indicates that the victim did not have a subjective fear of what was outside. No person with functioning survival instincts would give up the safety of staying inside if they truly believed there was a threat. Which leaves the only other motivations as being to shoot or intimidate the person knocking. Since he didn't have the gun pointed when he answered, that really just leaves intimidation. Which is not lawful. You have misjudged a large portion of the human race. And we have massively overestimated the competence of the modern cop as well. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:44:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lug1: So we are calling people by other names now? Mr. Beto? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lug1: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By BCPVP: I understand that. Lug1 doesn't seem to because he's hung up on the fact that the gun was pointed downward being proof that it's not brandishing. Watch the video. Its manslaughter. Open and shut. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:45:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: And we have massively overestimated the competence of the modern cop as well. Not all of us 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:45:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: And we have massively overestimated the competence of the modern cop as well. When the hiring minimums are a GED for a job that starts you off at $19/hr, society gets what it is willing to pay for. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:50:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ~snip: You can. Back when I was a fine tuned up implement of law enforcement, I could draw from holster, put 2 rounds in the 10 ring at 10yds in 0.6 seconds. The criminal knows what he is going to do before he does it, he just works himself up to do it or waits for an opportunity to do it, then does it. The victim's brain takes a few seconds to react. Also goes back to the "knife drill". A criminal armed, at 7 yards away, 21 feet, can advance and attack you faster than an average person or cop can draw. (Especially considering the differences between the thumb strapped Level 2 retention holsters used on LE duty belts and regular person CCW with IWB, OWB or groin carry combined with seasonal clothing) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ~snip: Originally Posted By ~snip: And a guy can draw from a holster and shoot someone before the other person can react. Don't make me show the math*. * - The math is just some numbers with no math. You can. Back when I was a fine tuned up implement of law enforcement, I could draw from holster, put 2 rounds in the 10 ring at 10yds in 0.6 seconds. The criminal knows what he is going to do before he does it, he just works himself up to do it or waits for an opportunity to do it, then does it. The victim's brain takes a few seconds to react. Also goes back to the "knife drill". A criminal armed, at 7 yards away, 21 feet, can advance and attack you faster than an average person or cop can draw. (Especially considering the differences between the thumb strapped Level 2 retention holsters used on LE duty belts and regular person CCW with IWB, OWB or groin carry combined with seasonal clothing) QFT This demonstrates why situational awareness is critical, the criminals are using any advantages. "be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James "Mad Dog" Mattis |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:52:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: No. There's no indication from your scenario that the guy is carrying in a manner meant to intimidate others. Answering a door with a gun in hand and visible means you intend for it to be noticed by the person at the door. My turn: Suppose a man lives in an open carry state. He's driving down the road and is pulled over by police. The officer asks the man to step out of the car. He steps out with a gun in his hand. What do you think happens to the guy? What do you think (legally) happens to the cop? I think we've found your belief system, Mr. Vice President!  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:54:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigSky171]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: When the hiring minimums are a GED for a job that starts you off at $19/hr, society gets what it is willing to pay for.  Was it CA that wants to make it good for illegals to be cops? Wait until that shitshow kicks off. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 4:59:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: When the hiring minimums are a GED for a job that starts you off at $19/hr, society gets what it is willing to pay for. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By fxntime: And we have massively overestimated the competence of the modern cop as well. When the hiring minimums are a GED for a job that starts you off at $19/hr, society gets what it is willing to pay for. Maybe society has figured out that is all most of them are worth................ Hell, most GI's make less and have ROE's in war areas that are more strict then cops have much of the time. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:06:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Doesn't seem like it was very prudent, was it? What danger would the airmen have likely faced if he had opened the door with no gun in hand? I guess you think the cops are always out hunting young black men for sport so the very existence of an officer at his door was a lethal threat? BLM-level thinking going on in this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By jDrexler: It's sad when you guys don't even realize that you are basically arguing that us regular joes should interact with police with the same caution we would a wild animal. Exactly! Therefore the airman was prudent answering the door with a gun. It's unfortunate he did not appreciate the level of danger he was in. What danger would the airmen have likely faced if he had opened the door with no gun in hand? I guess you think the cops are always out hunting young black men for sport so the very existence of an officer at his door was a lethal threat? BLM-level thinking going on in this thread. Well the airman was obeying the law and in his own home when a cop killed him. So... |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:08:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Really? This whole situation went down extremely predictably. The guy appears in front of the cop armed with a gun and he got shot. If you recognize that it's dangerous to suddenly appear to have a gun in your hand, at close range, with a cop that's trying to interact with you, you can work backwards to figure out a smarter, safer way. Like, not answering the door with a gun in hand. Wild animals are unpredictable and you can't necessarily know what actions might cause an attack. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Mikhail_86: Originally Posted By BCPVP: On the contrary, interacting with a wild, dangerous type of animal would definitely justify having a gun in hand. That cop is a wild, dangerous type of animal Wild animals are unpredictable and you can't necessarily know what actions might cause an attack. Is a non-cop allowed to shoot any cop that he sees that has a gun in his hands? Or is this one of those one way things? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:11:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: I've watched it many times already, Mr. Crump.  Ok. Sorry I was hoping you had something of value to say. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:12:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Ok. Sorry I was hoping you had something of value to say. pornhub was probably down last night |
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:15:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Jesus Christ. And you wonder why people don’t care for cops anymore. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Are people being intentionally retarded? The misdemeanor would be the charge if nothing else happened, but it turns out if your actions of brandishing a firearm cause someone else to reasonably fear for their life, they are justified in using deadly force against you. Unluckily for the airman, he brandished a gun against someone who was also armed. Jesus Christ. And you wonder why people don’t care for cops anymore. This process is forging the US police force into a tool that globalists need to make that final grab on power. The globalists need police afraid of the public and the public afraid of their police. At certain point police will either be shot on site as enemies of the Constitution or police fearing for the corner they painted themselves in will follow the historical path of police forces that hated the populace they enforced the laws against. The slide in this direction is moving faster and faster. I dont know how we stop it either because most sides are too blinded to communicate. What I thought would be common sense things like not arresting or violating parental rights for protesting at school board meetings over parents rights over their kids has instead of stemming the decent did the opposite as police went along with clear nonsense. Its quite clear the state has enough police that are willing to enforce anything and everything against the people that law enforcement will not be significantly impacted by the few that have enough spine to walk away. I really hope I'm wrong or just black pilled on this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:19:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Decision making skills? Like calling “shots fired, officer down” because you heard an acorn fall from a tree? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Apparently so. It seems I've massively overestimated people's decision making skills on this forum. Decision making skills? Like calling “shots fired, officer down” because you heard an acorn fall from a tree? Not to forget that it wasn't just the one officer mag dumping because of a sound/acorn. A second officer did the same with sympathetic fire. 6 months later, we have this case now with all actors being from the same department. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:20:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beltfed308: Not to forget that it wasn't just the one officer mag dumping because of a sound/acorn. A second officer did the same with sympathetic fire. 6 months later, we have this case now with all actors being from the same department. What the fuck. You're shitting me. There's no way it's the same department. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:22:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: What the fuck. You're shitting me. There's no way it's the same department. lol |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Beltfed308]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: What the fuck. You're shitting me. There's no way it's the same department. Better yet, one resigned, no charges. The other yielded the usual investigated and justified. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:25:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: What the fuck. You're shitting me. There's no way it's the same department. It is. All fun and games until they get a Consent Decree jammed up their ass like LAPD did. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:25:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: What the fuck. You're shitting me. There's no way it's the same department. lol Oh my God.   |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:32:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: 2nd degree murder. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Watch the video. Its manslaughter. Open and shut. 2nd degree murder. It’s not a good shoot or a bad shoot in gun guy vernacular, but it will be within parameters of their department policy. If a DA wants to take it to a grand jury, it will be up to a jury of 18 to 24 to indict on some criminal complaint or no true bill. Yes, very unfortunate, tragic that the airman was killed. As to several posts about ‘so, now police can shoot and kill a guy for a misdemeanor’ Yes, it I hated cops that’s exactly how I would write a newspaper headline or a title to a GD post. ‘Police shoot and kill man for stealing a kit-kat bar’ and leave out that the man pulled a gun as the police approached to investigate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:33:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: burkeva]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: When the hiring minimums are a GED for a job that starts you off at $19/hr, society gets what it is willing to pay for. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By fxntime: And we have massively overestimated the competence of the modern cop as well. When the hiring minimums are a GED for a job that starts you off at $19/hr, society gets what it is willing to pay for. Same applies with the military. Edit to add: the difference being is that the .mil crew is not armed 24 /7 and when they are, they have layers of supervision watching them. And they still manage to smoke countless unknowns and friendlies during the course of their days. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Notcalifornialegal]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XNARC: It’s not a good shoot or a bad shoot in gun guy vernacular, but it will be within parameters of their department policy. If a DA wants to take it to a grand jury, it will be up to a jury of 18 to 24 to indict on some criminal complaint or no true bill. Yes, very unfortunate, tragic that the airman was killed. As to several posts about ‘so, now police can shoot and kill a guy for a misdemeanor’ Yes, it I hated cops that’s exactly how I would write a newspaper headline or a title to a GD post. ‘Police shoot and kill man for stealing a kit-kat bar’ and leave out that the man pulled a gun as the police approached to investigate. Watch the video. The guy had zero opportunity to see who was at the door since the cop was off to the sides and no reason to expect anyone from the sheriff's office. He was innocent man killed in his own house. Even WORSE this dude is from the SAME department that unloaded after an acorn dropped. That's a pattern of poor trying that will and now HAS gotten someone innocent killed. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:39:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By josepha1: Ben Crump? Yeah, sounds like a terrible shoot but who would want that POS anywhere near this? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:45:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By super223: The guy asked someone if they called the police after the police officer knocked and identified himself. Opening the door to the Sherriff's office The best thing he could have done would be to not answer the door at all. The officer was still going to be looking for something to arrest him on if he was unarmed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:48:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hhsmiley: Yeah, sounds like a terrible shoot but who would want that POS anywhere near this? Some of his results. https://bencrump.com/results/ |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:48:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: Maybe society has figured out that is all most of them are worth................ Hell, most GI's make less and have ROE's in war areas that are more strict then cops have much of the time. As I mentioned before…are you saying that a combat roe would restrict a soldier, approaching an armed military aged male would be required to identify himself, offer some type of warning to that male to drop his weapon before engaging? |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:49:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Amazon delivery driver rings the doorbell and you show up with a gun visible to them in your hand? Be fucking honest for a moment: if you saw it was a cop at your door, you're still going to answer it with a gun in your hand, on the off chance it's actually an criminal posing as a cop? Andrew Branca of the LawofSelfDefense.com is planning on discussing this case in further depth come Monday, but from the twitter responses I've seen so far, he recognizes this as lawful. I trust his evaluations far more than anyone on this thread. Of course not. I’m not going to the door at all. They can talk to the doorbell. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:51:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BCPVP: Doesn't seem like it was very prudent, was it? What danger would the airmen have likely faced if he had opened the door with no gun in hand? I guess you think the cops are always out hunting young black men for sport so the very existence of an officer at his door was a lethal threat? BLM-level thinking going on in this thread. You’re the one making statements about how it’s acceptable police work to kill non-threatening men in their home in the wake of a black man being killed. Have you considered how different the country would be if cops would stop being their own worst enemies? |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:51:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: You have misjudged a large portion of the human race. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: Originally Posted By BCPVP: A gun in hand, on display, for no other purpose. Opening the door with the gun indicates that the victim did not have a subjective fear of what was outside. No person with functioning survival instincts would give up the safety of staying inside if they truly believed there was a threat. Which leaves the only other motivations as being to shoot or intimidate the person knocking. Since he didn't have the gun pointed when he answered, that really just leaves intimidation. Which is not lawful. You have misjudged a large portion of the human race. Damn near every cop in Uvalde did just that. So from a reasonable officer standpoint he could be right. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:52:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XNARC: As I mentioned before…are you saying that a combat roe would restrict a soldier, approaching an armed military aged male would be required to identify himself, offer some type of warning to that male to drop his weapon before engaging? Oftentimes, yes. Depends on a lot of things. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:53:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By hhsmiley: Yeah, sounds like a terrible shoot but who would want that POS anywhere near this? Some of his results. https://bencrump.com/results/ If my son was killed like theirs was I’d want the meanest, dirtiest, most effective lawyer I could get my hands on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:53:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XNARC: As I mentioned before…are you saying that a combat roe would restrict a soldier, approaching an armed military aged male would be required to identify himself, offer some type of warning to that male to drop his weapon before engaging? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XNARC: Originally Posted By fxntime: Maybe society has figured out that is all most of them are worth................ Hell, most GI's make less and have ROE's in war areas that are more strict then cops have much of the time. As I mentioned before…are you saying that a combat roe would restrict a soldier, approaching an armed military aged male would be required to identify himself, offer some type of warning to that male to drop his weapon before engaging? It was done a lot in the ME. You just can't go blasting everyone you see. In open warfare the ROI are of course different. If the cop had drawn and demanded the HOMEOWNER drop his pistol, you wouldn't see this shitstorm but he didn't, he drew, immediately opened fire, and THEN demanded the HOMEOWNER drop his firearm. They seem to get that shit backwards way to often. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:57:32 PM EDT
[#44]
"Saint" George Floyd was highly suspect, I would have ruled innocent if on the jury. This however, was just gross negligence murder
Very bad shoot. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:58:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: Maybe society has figured out that is all most of them are worth................ Hell, most GI's make less and have ROE's in war areas that are more strict then cops have much of the time. But the GIs have adult supervision. |
|
|
|
AK, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 5:59:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MSGTUSAF: You realize the police whined to get the definition changed cause they didn't like being called civilian. The definition of civilian for the past century was basically anyone under the ucmj, cops aren't under the ucmj, they just whine alot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MSGTUSAF: Originally Posted By XNARC: Here….just like the gd, understand shit half ass https://i.imgur.com/KtquXKe.jpg You realize the police whined to get the definition changed cause they didn't like being called civilian. The definition of civilian for the past century was basically anyone under the ucmj, cops aren't under the ucmj, they just whine alot. LARP'ers need hero's they could conceivably measure up to and LEO's are as close as they're gonna get. 
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 6:03:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Watch the video. The guy had zero opportunity to see who was at the door since the cop was off to the sides and no reason to expect anyone from the sheriff's office. He was innocent man killed in his own house. Even WORSE this dude is from the SAME department that unloaded after an acorn dropped. That's a pattern of poor trying that will and now HAS gotten someone innocent killed. Here’s how the peep hole works, deputy wasn’t outside the view, announced himself as from the sheriffs office, and there was someone inside heard loud enough to be picked up by the deputy’s bwc saying ‘police’ . So, then…if the airman did hear the deputy announce himself, look out the peep hole, see the deputy in uniform, acknowledge the deputy’s presence by saying something to the effect of ‘police’ and yet opened that door with gun in hand, what would you make of that?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 6:05:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Damn near every cop in Uvalde did just that. So from a reasonable officer standpoint he could be right. That was isolated to just the entire department plus some.  Now contrast that with the FL UPS case from 3 years ago? The officers moved in and effectively ended a dramatic hostage incident, using available cover and advanced, professional law enforcement training tactics. The victims are still waiting for the "investigation report" last I checked a few months ago. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 6:06:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SmilingBandit]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XNARC: Here’s how the peep hole works, deputy wasn’t outside the view, announced himself as from the sheriffs office, and there was someone inside heard loud enough to be picked up by the deputy’s bwc saying ‘police’ . So, then…if the airman did hear the deputy announce himself, look out the peep hole, see the deputy in uniform, acknowledge the deputy’s presence by saying something to the effect of ‘police’ and yet opened that door with gun in hand, what would you make of that? https://i.imgur.com/aPQKjMg.gif The field of view on a peep hole is finite and you can't say for certain whether the officer was in or out of it. ETA: Heck, after the first banging on the door, the officer is standing off to the side and you can't even see the peep hole from the body cam but you think that the peep hole would definitely see the officer?
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/11/2024 6:07:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Maybe homosexuals and heterosexuals have different interpretations of “brandishing”? Because the heterosexuals don’t believe this to be brandishing: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/583190/40104ADD-976E-402E-85B5-355CE3851CE4_jpe-3211762.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By TresOsos: Originally Posted By BCPVP: Originally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By BCPVP: I can't think of any tactical/safety benefit to opening your door with a gun in hand but at your side. If you're concerned, why are you opening the door in the first place? If you're not concerned, why are you answering with a gun in hand on full display? The only reasons that make any sense are if you plan to shoot the person on the other side of the door or you want to make them think you will/might. Don't really understand the pushback on this. WI is an open carry state but that doesn't mean I can walk around town with a gun in my hand, even if I don't point it at anyone. Likewise, being on my property doesn't mean it's impossible for me to brandish a gun. Because the kid was doing nothing wrong. Opening the door with a pistol in your hand is perfectly legal. He was in his own fucking home, minding his own fucking business. And now he is dead. Due to a situation created entirely by the presence of a police officer, and justified by the uniform he was wearing. You don't understand the problem with this? i wouldn't call what I saw on video as Brandishing, thats a big stretch. Maybe homosexuals and heterosexuals have different interpretations of “brandishing”? Because the heterosexuals don’t believe this to be brandishing: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/583190/40104ADD-976E-402E-85B5-355CE3851CE4_jpe-3211762.JPG Gun to side, other hand up and visible, nope i would not call that brandishing a firearm. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
