Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Certainly need more info on the whole story.

Why come to the door with a gun?
Look out peephole see cop, put gun away, open door.

was cop told the wrong address? If so by the RP or the dispatcher?

I can understand the cop shooting him when he saw the gun.  This could just be a whole tragic chain of events.

Originally Posted By josepha1:
Ben Crump?

Originally Posted By BoomerShooter:
Ooof

Originally Posted By pale_pony:

He's a pro level Race Pimp and anti white bigot

But I'll allow it this time and I pray he hangs the cocksuckers who killed the Airman

Originally Posted By M4GunFighter:




This is the first thing that you and I have agreed on. The county will be paying out.

You’re taking a still picture from an event that lasted less than what, a second? Maybe two seconds at the most? And in that time you’re expecting the officer to register that the subjects free hand is facing him, though I have zero idea what that means, you seem to feel that this is a position of supplication, though that’s not true at all.   And you expect him to not think this guy is a threat because his weapon is currently pointed down? Have you ever heard that action is faster than reaction?

Originally Posted By Goback:

The difference may not being geographically but experience. I work in one of the countries most violent city.

Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:


The reporting party claimed she heard two people arguing and a slap. And yet, there was only one person present. She’s either mistaken or lying.

Originally Posted By BlackRifleJihad:


Well this part of the country isn’t one of the most violent cities though. I’d think working in LA and working in NW Florida you’d would have slightly difference mindset.

Originally Posted By Justice23:
So it was the apartment the reporting person told the police domestic violence was possibly occurring.

Deputy knocked and announced sheriffs office twice.

Door gets opened with ma with a gun held down at his side.

Voices inside are heard mentioning the police but aren't of great audio quality.

Deputy shoots man with gun in hand.

Am I missing something?

This will be deemed an objectively reasonable use of force.

Originally Posted By TGE:
Sure, sure. Summary: disparage victim with accusations of wife-beating to shift blame onto him, fabricate a verbal threat to fit what you hope happened and thus remove even more responsibility from the killer, then declare that anyone who ever holds a firearm in a casual manner inside their own home is "flashing" their piece because that sounds scarier than saying the victim was "holding it at his side in an u threatening manner".

Like I said, very unpredictable

Originally Posted By TAG_Match:


One thing that occurred to me is the airman lived at the very end of that walkway on the top floor.  Karen would have to live next door to hear anything.  That’s not a location one just “walks by” frequently.

Originally Posted By Justice23:
So it was the apartment the reporting person told the police domestic violence was possibly occurring.

Deputy knocked and announced sheriffs office twice.

Door gets opened with ma with a gun held down at his side.

Voices inside are heard mentioning the police but aren't of great audio quality.

Deputy shoots man with gun in hand.

Am I missing something?

This will be deemed an objectively reasonable use of force.

Originally Posted By Justice23:
...

This will be deemed an objectively reasonable use of force.

Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


To use deadly force, he would have had to have:



(TN v. Garner, quoted by the 11th circuit)

In cases following Garner in the Eleventh Circuit, the court found that the “mere presence of a
gun or other weapon is not enough to warrant the exercise of deadly force and shield an officer
from suit;” however, when a suspect’s gun is “available for ready use” — even when the suspect
has not “drawn his gun” — an officer is “not required to wait and hope for the best.” In addition,
the court reiterated that Garner does not require an officer to always provide a warning before
using deadly force but, instead, only “if feasible.”

Here, the cop fired immediately upon seeing the pistol, in his right hand, pointed downwards. My view of the footage does not show it being raised at all prior to shots being fired. Instead, the man's left hand raises up just before shots are fired.

Thus to comply with clearly established 11th circuit case law, to justify deadly force, the officer will have to articulate why it wasn't feasible to give a warning before immediately firing.

It should have gone like this: drop the weapon, then shoot if he doesn't, or attempts to raise it. Plenty of shootings go just like that. Or, IMO of course, there would need to be some additional facts. Here the officer was responding to a Karen call that didn't even allege a crime occurred. A third party heard people arguing - that's it. Nobody from that apartment asked for help. There may have been some reasonable suspicion. However, that's irrelevant, because without a warrant, the only options available to the officer were:

1. a consensual knock and talk (which wasn't happening b/c he was pounding on the door and ordering it to be opened); or
2. have probable cause to believe that an emergency/exigency is occurring inside (which he didn't b/c the Karen call provided little information, none of which alleged anyone was in immediate danger - but I suppose that's the issue that's going to be investigated/litigated and perhaps decided by a jury ultimately).

Freedom is scary. If you don't want to confront people who may be armed, don't knock on their fucking door at the request of a Karen.

Originally Posted By morglan:
Beginning to look like, if the police show up at your house unannounced, they're probably going to try to kill you.

Originally Posted By WesJanson:
Thoughts on the video:

Crump lied, as usual. No one kicked a door down and made entry.

The apartment was the correct one described by the reporting party. Who was describing an act of domestic battery (2 weeks prior), and another ongoing disturbance, not a noise complaint.  Neighbors complaining about fighting is how the vast majority of domestics get reported, and arrested on. This is a normal daily call anywhere in the country. Airman probably *was* beating his girlfriend, not that she'll ever admit to it now except *maybe* if called to the stand and cross examined by the deputy's defense counsel.

Announcements were indeed given repeatedly. The use of "OPEN THE DOOR" is a bad choice of words since the resident can legally disregard it at will.

Something was said by the airman that the deputy reacts to, though it's inaudible on camera. The deputy's tone and alertness go up considerably after that, leading me to suspect that the airman did in fact say something indicating hostility of some kind.

Airman never points the pistol, and isn't given enough time to comply before getting shot. Officers are not legally required to be shot first before returning fire. That said, would a reasonable officer knocking on a door react with gunfire to someone holding a gun in hand by their side? It's happened a number of times over the years, and different courts have ruled in various ways on these cases.

There's a very subtle and important thing about Florida that 90% of GD isn't going to realize, which likely plays a role in this shooting. In the vast, overwhelming majority of the country, open carry is legal and seen on a relatively frequent basis. In FL open carry is banned to such an effectively thorough degree that most cops will rarely if *ever* encounter a non-threat with a pistol in their hand. It leads to a psychological triggering element that seeing a gun is a cause for drawing and threatening lethal force. Cops in FL who carry off duty carry concealed - cops in other states are way more likely to open carry off duty. It overall biases the threat decision reactions of officers in FL, and that likely is part of what caused him to shoot.

Overall, the use of force is likely to be ruled unjustified by IA, though there's a chance it's held as justifiable. I wouldn't be surprised if a grand jury is convened to decide on criminal charges. And he may well be no-billed because this has happened before a number of times over the years across the country. Particularly if the deputy's statement indicated he heard something like "fuck the police" from inside. Civilly it's hard to say where this one goes, though if Crump is involved the agency may just try to settle for a million or two and move on.

As I've said over and over in these threads...don't ever answer the door with a weapon visible. Period. Check the peephole, have a weapon in hand and out of sight, and don't go flashing it openly in front of cops. I was right about the Farmington case despite the outcries from the usual suspects, and I guarantee it will continue to happen in years to come. Just because something is lawful doesn't mean it won't keep you from becoming a casualty.

Originally Posted By XNARC:
Like I said…keep jerking off to pictures of  Eric Estrada in his chips uniform, the deputy is not going to prison for ass raping. Although tragic, the dude should not have answered his door knowing it was Jonny law and  drew on him

Originally Posted By TAG_Match:
Today I found out that a citizen having a gun in one’s hand is considered “Brandishing” by the police regardless of the legal and/or dictionary definition.  Since enough police accept the police definition of brandishing over the legal definition and/or common definition, it’s a reasonable and justified killing of a citizen.  The police definition is for police use ONLY.  Citizens must use the legal and/or common definition.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program of why police should be rewarded for these type shootings with more money and respect (read compliance) from the taxpayers.

Originally Posted By M4GunFighter:




I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me.  I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody.

Originally Posted By Creatyre:
I know GD won't like it, but it mentions he was on a video chat.

Was he on the phone with someone and they were screaming at each other which included threats and it was perceived by the officers that there were two people inside of the apartment and they believed that someone was in danger? They make entry, gun vs gun, and shots fired.

My hesitation is crump coupled with an "I can't breathe."

Go ahead, pile on me.

Originally Posted By M4GunFighter:






It's funny, if we were watching a video of the officer being blasted through the door, all you arm chair commandos would be saying "dumb fuck never should've stood in front of the door".


I always watch these videos and I can assure you when I do I am MUCH harder on the officers than you are. The difference is, I do it with a lot more knowledge than you.  I often watch them and think, "oh man, that's fucked up, he really screwed the pooch". Or sometimes I Watch videos where people are screaming for the officers head and I can see that he didn't do anything wrong. Unfortunately when people like you watch them it's like a college kid protesting for Palestine, all emotion no facts.

In this case I really feel for the victim, because in all appearances he didn't do anything wrong. But I can also tell you, in that video, that officer didn't do anything wrong. It's a fucked up situation and an all around tragedy. The county is going to pay out big time. I feel for that family that lost a loved one, but I also feel for that officer who has to live with what happened. He had a split second to make what he truly believed was a life or death decision and he has to live with his choice. Sometimes really bad things happen and this is one of those cases..