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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:36:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Killing a resident who displayed no threatening actions seems like the logical and sane thing to do then for a "reasonable officer." The officer "went home safely" and that's the only thing that matters to a certain percentage of this site. Any amount of bad training and paranoia is excusable to that end. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:38:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: 16:32:02 per the time stamp in the upper right corner of the screen approximately 3:58 in the Police Activity YT video (where the screen grab came from) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53285/IMG_5624_png-3210081.JPG Both of which happened before the shooting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By Beltfed308: Time stamp? Seems to be missing. 16:32:02 per the time stamp in the upper right corner of the screen approximately 3:58 in the Police Activity YT video (where the screen grab came from) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53285/IMG_5624_png-3210081.JPG Both of which happened before the shooting. The "step back" and gun clearing the holster happened within less than a second of each other. Dude was already dead at the point the cop said it, he just didn't know it yet. For a profession that is all about the OODA loop when a cop makes an error, there's an amazing expectation for the public that they don't need one. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:39:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Killing a resident who displayed no threatening actions seems like the logical and sane thing to do then for a "reasonable officer." “Reasonable officer” is a rare breed, seldom seen in the wild since the early 19th century. They are easily spotted in current times however, by their lack of sleeve tattoos, punisher logos, and bruised relations. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:40:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: The thing is, I can see this from both sides. And BOTH sides have solid arguments. I totally agree that it is EVERY citizens right to be armed and to come to the door with a firearm in hand. But I also understand what the officer was thinking and see why this went bad so quickly. So do I. Because they are taught that they are in the most deadly profession in the world and he saw a man with a gun so he did what he was trained to do. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:41:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Seriously? Maybe they aren’t shot through doors very often BECAUSE THEY DON’T STAND IN FRONT OF THEM??? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: You guys have to do something about the hundreds of officers shot every months through doors. Seriously? Maybe they aren’t shot through doors very often BECAUSE THEY DON’T STAND IN FRONT OF THEM??? That went over your head. Also the couple times LEOs have come to my house one stood to the side and one in front of the door. Neither were miraculously shot through the door or drywall and I had a shotgun right next to the door. I also didn't answer the door either, saw who it was and waited until they left. They never left a note so I assume it was not important. I seriously doubt many are getting shot through doors regardless if they are in front or off to the side. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:41:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: Wow, fucked up shooting. Hard to believe anyone would try to defend it. Cops shooting people who are minding their own business in their own homes is a thing now. Been a thing Read this one https://thecivilrightslawyer.com/2023/03/20/swat-team-surprises-kid-on-couch-and-shoots-him/ |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:41:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: The downside to tactically hiding next to the door is that the resident doesn't know anything other than some random unknown subject is banging on his door while verbally claiming to be LE but hiding themselves from view. That happens to be a common tactic of armed criminals. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: While I understand your point, I would argue that approaching an officer with a firearm in hand on a domestic disturbance call could reasonably be called “threatening”. The downside to tactically hiding next to the door is that the resident doesn't know anything other than some random unknown subject is banging on his door while verbally claiming to be LE but hiding themselves from view. That happens to be a common tactic of armed criminals. I don’t disagree with you at all on that. However, if somebody is announcing “sheriffs department“, and pounding on your door, with nobody standing in front of the peep hole And your first thought is, that must be somebody impersonating the police and trying to get into my apartment. Would you open the door? Or would you call the sheriffs department? You can’t expect the deputy to stand in front of the door. That’s just ridiculous and I think that making ridiculous statements like that have no place in what needs to be a serious discussion. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:42:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I don’t disagree with you at all on that. However, if somebody is announcing “sheriffs department“, and pounding on your door, with nobody standing in front of the peep hole And your first thought is, that must be somebody impersonating the police and trying to get into my apartment. Would you open the door? Or would you call the sheriffs department? You can’t expect the deputy to stand in front of the door. That’s just ridiculous and I think that making ridiculous statements like that have no place in what needs to be a serious discussion. "Why do people call the cops for everything rather than looking for themselves?" also: "Why didn't someone call the cops rather than looking for themself?" |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:44:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M4GunFighter]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: So do I. Because they are taught that they are in the most deadly profession in the world and he saw a man with a gun so he did what he was trained to do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: The thing is, I can see this from both sides. And BOTH sides have solid arguments. I totally agree that it is EVERY citizens right to be armed and to come to the door with a firearm in hand. But I also understand what the officer was thinking and see why this went bad so quickly. So do I. Because they are taught that they are in the most deadly profession in the world and he saw a man with a gun so he did what he was trained to do. Question for you. Number one, how long have you been a police officer? And number two, how many gun fights have you been in? If the answer to that first question is zero years and the answer to that second question is also zero, then I think we can both agree that you don’t know About anything that you’re talking about. Believe it or not, in my experience every officer out there is not trying to excuse every other officers bad behavior. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s generally the line level officers trying to get rid of the bad eggs Because they make them look bad. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:47:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Question for you. Number one, how long have you been a police officer? And number two, how many gun fights have you been in? If the answer to that first question is zero years and the answer to that question is also zero, then I think we can both agree that you don’t know About anything that you’re talking about. Believe it or not, in my experience every officer out there is not trying to excuse every other officers bad behavior. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s generally the line level officers trying to get rid of the bad eggs Because they make them look bad. How many years have you been a cop and how many gunfights have you been in? As to your last sentence, do you think this cop makes cops look bad or good? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:48:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BourbonBeast]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Question for you. Number one, how long have you been a police officer? And number two, how many gun fights have you been in? If the answer to that first question is zero years and the answer to that second question is also zero, then I think we can both agree that you don’t know About anything that you’re talking about. Believe it or not, in my experience every officer out there is not trying to excuse every other officers bad behavior. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s generally the line level officers trying to get rid of the bad eggs Because they make them look bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: The thing is, I can see this from both sides. And BOTH sides have solid arguments. I totally agree that it is EVERY citizens right to be armed and to come to the door with a firearm in hand. But I also understand what the officer was thinking and see why this went bad so quickly. So do I. Because they are taught that they are in the most deadly profession in the world and he saw a man with a gun so he did what he was trained to do. Question for you. Number one, how long have you been a police officer? And number two, how many gun fights have you been in? If the answer to that first question is zero years and the answer to that second question is also zero, then I think we can both agree that you don’t know About anything that you’re talking about. Believe it or not, in my experience every officer out there is not trying to excuse every other officers bad behavior. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s generally the line level officers trying to get rid of the bad eggs Because they make them look bad. How many police officers get killed in the line of duty every year? How many pizza delivery drivers? If you've never delivered a pizza to a sketchy neighborhood at night time, then I think we can both agree that you don't know About anything related to an actual dangerous job. Also, thought you said you were taking a break from the thread? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:49:03 PM EDT
[#12]
As a point of reference, this cop wasn't in a gunfight either. He just straight shot a non-threatening man.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:49:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m saying if I have my weapon to my side and you are up and pointed at me. I guarantee I get the first round off. You keep saying he issued no commands, like he’s legally required to. He’s not. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz: So you're saying that the Airman was going to raise his weapon and fire before the Deputy could apply the 5 pounds of pressure on the trigger of his service weapon? He had the drop on him 100%. Issued no command and smoked him. Yeah we agree they are probably calculating the multi million dollar settlement they will be paying. Probably no charges for the trigger happy deputy. He gets fired then gets a job in another department. Tax payer foots the bill per usual. I’m saying if I have my weapon to my side and you are up and pointed at me. I guarantee I get the first round off. You keep saying he issued no commands, like he’s legally required to. He’s not. I must of missed the part where he pointed the gun at the officers. I saw a startled kid trying to figure out WTF was going on. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:50:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: As a point of reference, this cop wasn't in a gunfight either. He just straight shot a non-threatening man. QFT |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:53:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: This is the first thing that you and I have agreed on. The county will be paying out. You’re taking a still picture from an event that lasted less than what, a second? Maybe two seconds at the most? And in that time you’re expecting the officer to register that the subjects free hand is facing him, though I have zero idea what that means, you seem to feel that this is a position of supplication, though that’s not true at all. And you expect him to not think this guy is a threat because his weapon is currently pointed down? Have you ever heard that action is faster than reaction? is this a parody account that im unaware of? |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:54:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FivespeedF150: That image is gonna get plastered everywhere. As it should. Looks like that cop should be facing murder charges. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:57:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PeepEater]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I don’t disagree with you at all on that. However, if somebody is announcing “sheriffs department“, and pounding on your door, with nobody standing in front of the peep hole And your first thought is, that must be somebody impersonating the police and trying to get into my apartment. Would you open the door? Or would you call the sheriffs department? You can’t expect the deputy to stand in front of the door. That’s just ridiculous and I think that making ridiculous statements like that have no place in what needs to be a serious discussion. You can present credentials without exposing most of your body. If he was that scared could have even waited for someone to come up with a shield before knocking. Was opening the door dumb? Probably. The general public is expected to do dumb things. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:59:36 PM EDT
[#18]
30 years and more than a few.
I think that this is a horrible tragedy. Almost a perfect storm of fucked up shit that happened and it ended terribly. If you’re asking me if I think that officer did anything wrong? No, I don’t. He went to a domestic dispute, statistically the most dangerous call for officers. He went there, knocked on the door and announced himself. Did he stand in front of the door where he could be viewed? No, he didn’t. Officers are taught not to stand in front of the door because, believe it or not, there have been quite a few shot through the door. The door opened and there stood the subject with a firearm in his hand. The officer is under no obligation to allow that subject to raise the weapon, or to get the first shot off, He’s under no obligation to give any commands. He literally had less than a second to make a decision and he chose to fire. And it appears in this case, he may have killed an innocent person. It’s fucking HORRIBLE, but what would you have him do differently? Take an extra second to give commands and see if the subject drops the weapon? Definitely an option. But as I said, earlier, action is faster than reaction. And a suspect can literally get a round off when his weapon is pointed at the ground before you will ever get one off, even if you were drawn down on him. I can see both sides on this one and if the officer had fucked up, I’d be standing next to you with my pitch fork and torch. I just don’t think that was the case here. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:01:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: ... And it appears in this case, he may have killed an innocent person. ... That's a bold assertion. Don't hurt your credibility posting such wild claims. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:02:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m saying if I have my weapon to my side and you are up and pointed at me. I guarantee I get the first round off. You keep saying he issued no commands, like he’s legally required to. He’s not. keep posting this gold |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:03:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: While I understand your point, I would argue that approaching an officer with a firearm in hand on a domestic disturbance call could reasonably be called “threatening”. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By haveTwo: Killing a resident who displayed no threatening actions seems like the logical and sane thing to do then for a "reasonable officer." While I understand your point, I would argue that approaching an officer with a firearm in hand on a domestic disturbance call could reasonably be called “threatening”. I see what side of the argument your jack bit comes down on. Specifically the "fuck the citizen" side. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:05:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Nobody in the apartment had to call. That’s quite possibly the stupidest thing said so far. Just so I understand this. Your mother is in the house being raped. She can’t get to a phone, but a neighbor calls and says she i hears screaming next-door. The officer shouldn’t go to the door, because he’s “not fucking invited“?! Do you people even hear yourselves? Maybe just get over your hate of the police for a second and use some common sense. this has to be a parody account 
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:06:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: is this a parody account that im unaware of? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: This is the first thing that you and I have agreed on. The county will be paying out. You’re taking a still picture from an event that lasted less than what, a second? Maybe two seconds at the most? And in that time you’re expecting the officer to register that the subjects free hand is facing him, though I have zero idea what that means, you seem to feel that this is a position of supplication, though that’s not true at all. And you expect him to not think this guy is a threat because his weapon is currently pointed down? Have you ever heard that action is faster than reaction? is this a parody account that im unaware of? One could only hope. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:07:16 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: keep posting this gold Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m saying if I have my weapon to my side and you are up and pointed at me. I guarantee I get the first round off. You keep saying he issued no commands, like he’s legally required to. He’s not. keep posting this gold You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:07:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: The officer "went home safely" and that's the only thing that matters to a certain percentage of this site. Any amount of bad training and paranoia is excusable to that end. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Originally Posted By haveTwo: Killing a resident who displayed no threatening actions seems like the logical and sane thing to do then for a "reasonable officer." The officer "went home safely" and that's the only thing that matters to a certain percentage of this site. Any amount of bad training and paranoia is excusable to that end. Hard to believe anyone is defending this. Yet I'm occasionally reminded that no matter how evil you think a person can be, there is someone more evil. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:08:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: 30 years and more than a few. I think that this is a horrible tragedy. Almost a perfect storm of fucked up shit that happened and it ended terribly. If you’re asking me if I think that officer did anything wrong? No, I don’t. He went to a domestic dispute, statistically the most dangerous call for officers. He went there, knocked on the door and announced himself. Did he stand in front of the door where he could be viewed? No, he didn’t. Officers are taught not to stand in front of the door because, believe it or not, there have been quite a few shot through the door. The door opened and there stood the subject with a firearm in his hand. The officer is under no obligation to allow that subject to raise the weapon, or to get the first shot off, He’s under no obligation to give any commands. He literally had less than a second to make a decision and he chose to fire. And it appears in this case, he may have killed an innocent person. It’s fucking HORRIBLE, but what would you have him do differently? Take an extra second to give commands and see if the subject drops the weapon? Definitely an option. But as I said, earlier, action is faster than reaction. And a suspect can literally get a round off when his weapon is pointed at the ground before you will ever get one off, even if you were drawn down on him. I can see both sides on this one and if the officer had fucked up, I’d be standing next to you with my pitch fork and torch. I just don’t think that was the case here. And the homeowner in the home by himself should have expected the officer and all his fears to be at his door. "We had a call" from an outside party still doesn't cut it. The brief time listening at the door should have been a clue. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:09:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By bunchofmidgets: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m saying if I have my weapon to my side and you are up and pointed at me. I guarantee I get the first round off. You keep saying he issued no commands, like he’s legally required to. He’s not. keep posting this gold You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? That you were wrong when you said you were leaving the thread. 
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:11:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? I disagree with cops killing innocent people in their own home. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:13:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: That you were wrong when you said you were leaving the thread. LOL. I know, I know, I got sucked back in. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:17:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? you're drunk and now appealing or you're truly a menace to society. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:17:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: While I understand your point, I would argue that approaching an officer with a firearm in hand on a domestic disturbance call could reasonably be called “threatening”. So could the officer getting his gun out. Nevermind the fact that there’s no evidence of a domestic disturbance at that address. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:17:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: 30 years and more than a few. I think that this is a horrible tragedy. Almost a perfect storm of fucked up shit that happened and it ended terribly. If you're asking me if I think that officer did anything wrong? No, I don't. He went to a domestic dispute, statistically the most dangerous call for officers. He went there, knocked on the door and announced himself. Did he stand in front of the door where he could be viewed? No, he didn't. Officers are taught not to stand in front of the door because, believe it or not, there have been quite a few shot through the door. The door opened and there stood the subject with a firearm in his hand. The officer is under no obligation to allow that subject to raise the weapon, or to get the first shot off, He's under no obligation to give any commands. He literally had less than a second to make a decision and he chose to fire. And it appears in this case, he may have killed an innocent person. It's fucking HORRIBLE, but what would you have him do differently? Take an extra second to give commands and see if the subject drops the weapon? Definitely an option. But as I said, earlier, action is faster than reaction. And a suspect can literally get a round off when his weapon is pointed at the ground before you will ever get one off, even if you were drawn down on him. I can see both sides on this one and if the officer had fucked up, I'd be standing next to you with my pitch fork and torch. I just don't think that was the case here. That cop didn't have any immediate exigent circumstances and shot less than a second after yelling drop the gun. If you are going to issue commands you need to give people the opportunity to follow those commands. Police need to be trained at how handle situations exactly like this where people might answer the door armed when they're not 100% sure of what apartment unit the issue is at. As soon as that cop saw the gun he was shooting. The drop the gun command was just an ingrained CYA thing he did despite being impossible to comply with. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:18:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: I disagree with cops killing innocent people in their own home. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? I disagree with cops killing innocent people in their own home. I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me. I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:20:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beltfed308: And the homeowner in the home by himself should have expected the officer and all his fears to be at his door. "We had a call" from an outside party still doesn't cut it. The brief time listening at the door should have been a clue. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beltfed308: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: 30 years and more than a few. I think that this is a horrible tragedy. Almost a perfect storm of fucked up shit that happened and it ended terribly. If you’re asking me if I think that officer did anything wrong? No, I don’t. He went to a domestic dispute, statistically the most dangerous call for officers. He went there, knocked on the door and announced himself. Did he stand in front of the door where he could be viewed? No, he didn’t. Officers are taught not to stand in front of the door because, believe it or not, there have been quite a few shot through the door. The door opened and there stood the subject with a firearm in his hand. The officer is under no obligation to allow that subject to raise the weapon, or to get the first shot off, He’s under no obligation to give any commands. He literally had less than a second to make a decision and he chose to fire. And it appears in this case, he may have killed an innocent person. It’s fucking HORRIBLE, but what would you have him do differently? Take an extra second to give commands and see if the subject drops the weapon? Definitely an option. But as I said, earlier, action is faster than reaction. And a suspect can literally get a round off when his weapon is pointed at the ground before you will ever get one off, even if you were drawn down on him. I can see both sides on this one and if the officer had fucked up, I’d be standing next to you with my pitch fork and torch. I just don’t think that was the case here. And the homeowner in the home by himself should have expected the officer and all his fears to be at his door. "We had a call" from an outside party still doesn't cut it. The brief time listening at the door should have been a clue. Another notch in the column for never answering the door no matter what. Never know when a government agent will kill you for having a gun in your hand pointed down at the ground, and the other hand up in a stop symbol. You know the universal sign you're about to kill a cop just because |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:20:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me. I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody. And yet that's exactly what he did. Before body cameras we know exactly how this one would have been written up too. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:21:16 AM EDT
[#36]
At this point we need to discuss creating a duty for officers to retreat when no crime has been committed.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:21:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: you're drunk and now appealing or you're truly a menace to society. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bunchofmidgets: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? you're drunk and now appealing or you're truly a menace to society. Again, if you have something meaningful to contribute, I welcome it. Otherwise go back to your homework, it’s almost your bedtime. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:22:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: At this point we need to discuss creating a duty for officers to retreat when no crime has been committed. He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:24:21 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: And yet that's exactly what he did. Before body cameras we know exactly how this one would have been written up too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PeepEater: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me. I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody. And yet that's exactly what he did. Before body cameras we know exactly how this one would have been written up too. Now it's just creative report writing and hoping nobody actually looks at any video. Lying becomes "inaccurate" recollection if called out. Guess what kind of grace non government employees would get? Always question the government. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:25:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: At this point we need to discuss creating a duty for officers to retreat when no crime has been committed. He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. What evidence of a crime did he have knowledge of? Uppity citizen with a gun that wasn't pointed at him? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:26:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Bold claim to make when everyone involved agrees he was home alone. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By WesJanson: The apartment was the correct one described by the reporting party. Who was describing an act of domestic battery (2 weeks prior), and another ongoing disturbance, not a noise complaint. Neighbors complaining about fighting is how the vast majority of domestics get reported, and arrested on. This is a normal daily call anywhere in the country. Airman probably *was* beating his girlfriend, not that she'll ever admit to it now except *maybe* if called to the stand and cross examined by the deputy's defense counsel. Bold claim to make when everyone involved agrees he was home alone. That's not a "claim", thats a simple assertion of incontrovertible fact. They responded to a disturbance call. RP reports history of hearing male threatening and striking female inside residence. In no agency in this country does that constitute a noise complaint. Period. People are referring to this incident as being a "noise complaint" and calling the RP a Karen because they're trying to minimize the circumstances to make the officers look like they shouldn't have been there. DV /= noise complaint. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:28:12 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me. I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: You keep quoting my posts and then inserting senseless quips, is there something there that you can intelligently disagree with? I disagree with cops killing innocent people in their own home. I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me. I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody. Look, I really am genuinely saying this out of concern, I am not trying to be an internet edgelord, and I hope I don't catch a time out / account ban for this. If you aren't sure whether or not you'd shoot someone in their own home, just for being armed, you shouldn't be a police officer. You swore an oath to defend the constitution, which includes the right to keep and bear arms. You don't get to just shoot someone because they are armed, again, standing in the doorway of their own home. I don't know how else to explain this. Again, I am really not trying to be a dick here, but if what you said is how you actually feel I'd get that sorted out before something like this happens and we're all watching your body cam. I don't want you in jail, or your last name as a hashtag, with an injured or dead person. I don't think you do either. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:29:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: What evidence of a crime did he have knowledge of? Uppity citizen with a gun that wasn't pointed at him? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: At this point we need to discuss creating a duty for officers to retreat when no crime has been committed. He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. What evidence of a crime did he have knowledge of? Uppity citizen with a gun that wasn't pointed at him? He was there to investigate a domestic disturbance. A woman heard screaming. So prior to making contact and conducting at least a cursory investigation how was he to know that no crime had been committed? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:29:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: At this point we need to discuss creating a duty for officers to retreat when no crime has been committed. He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. He also didn't know that a crime had been committed. Karen's rambling story about arguments she heard at some apartment in the past sure didn't tell him a crime was occurring. He seemed rather unconcerned when he stopped and listened at the door. He ordered the door to be opened (well, as close as cops ever get to actually ordering something to happen), then shot the guy who wasn't known to be dangerous, wasn't witnessed threatening anyone, and wasn't a fleeing felon. In your humble opinion, would I be acting in lawful self defense if I killed someone who opened the door just because they had a gun in their hand? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:30:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Again, if you have something meaningful to contribute, I welcome it. Otherwise go back to your homework, it’s almost your bedtime. It's amusing when someone demanding intelligent disagreement resorts to juvenile insults. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:31:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:31:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Surprised that anyone in 2024 doesn't have their place barricaded and some sort of surveillance in place to determine who is outside. No one is getting into my home without a ram and a good bit of time and effort.
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:32:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: I’m totally with you on that. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that. This is a fucked up situation. I’m simply saying that this one isn’t as cut and dry as some people are making it out to be. I honestly don’t know if I’d have reacted differently if I were in his place. I’ve been in situations where I almost fired and didn’t and it turned out to be a really good thing, but I could have just as easily pulled the trigger, something just stopped me. I just don’t know on this one. Putting myself in his position, man I just don’t know. I can guarantee you this. He’s second guessing his whole life right now. He didn’t go out on patrol that day just hoping he was going to get to dump somebody. For something "not cut and dry" you made a rather unambiguous assessment that "...in that video, that officer didn’t do anything wrong. " 
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:32:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: He was there to investigate a domestic disturbance. A woman heard screaming. So prior to making contact and conducting at least a cursory investigation how was he to know that no crime had been committed? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By M4GunFighter: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: At this point we need to discuss creating a duty for officers to retreat when no crime has been committed. He didn’t know that no crime had been committed. You’re judging him on what we know now. Not what he knew then. What evidence of a crime did he have knowledge of? Uppity citizen with a gun that wasn't pointed at him? He was there to investigate a domestic disturbance. A woman heard screaming. So prior to making contact and conducting at least a cursory investigation how was he to know that no crime had been committed? Maybe not murder the guy who answers the door and isn't threatening? Maybe get some real justification for lethal force first. That too hard of a concept? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:33:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRat: Surprised that anyone in 2024 doesn't have their place barricaded and some sort of surveillance in place to determine who is outside. No one is getting into my home without a ram and a good bit of time and effort. Reinforced is a much nicer word.
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