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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:20:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Are we good horse-traders or suckers?
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:22:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheKill: Handing them right over to Ukraine for sure. And that's cheap! |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:36:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KELBEAST]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Ukraine has zero use for MIG-31 and MIG-27 parts as they have zero examples. This was to deny Russia or use as decoys. Maybe they don’t intend to use them for parts. Wikki says Ukraine “has retired their MiG 27’s” but doesn’t give any info to how may they had or when they retired them. They might still have some 27 pilots or training plans. And if the 31’s are still flight worthy, it might be easier to transition MiG 25 pilots to it than the F16 which seem to be delayed until the second coming of Jesus |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:38:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperSixOne: CIA can't even hide from yahoo news Hide? Both groups probably meet at the same company outing where dildos and apples are passed out on entry |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:10:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nightstalker: Are we good horse-traders or suckers? Suckers of course. Every single taxpayer dollar is being spent on some thing that makes your life more miserable or ends it entirely under the reign of the current administration. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:40:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FerrousDueler: I wonder if it's some of these?https://www.google.com/maps/search/kazakhstan+ait+force+base/@43.747333,77.1202159,218m/data=https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78284/kazakhair_jpg-3200760.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78284/kazahmig31semey_jpg-3200769.JPG MIG-29, MI-24 and Su-24s would be quite useful even if just for parts. MIG-23s are probably best used for museums. Even if you could turn it into a UAV/cruise missile it would probably be cheaper to just build a purpose built one. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:44:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: Are we talking LBFM type of housekeeper or just a housekeeper? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: Originally Posted By Ben: You might be surprised how cheap things are in Kazakhstan. My marble floor apartment, with multiple bedrooms, an office, and even a sweet full on sauna...in the most expensive modern place in the country... Was less than a studio apartment in Virginia. Significantly less. And you could hire a full-time house keeper for about 150 dollars a month. Are we talking LBFM type of housekeeper or just a housekeeper? Our 21 year old nanny was a semi-finalist in the Ms Kazakhstan competition. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:58:22 PM EDT
[#8]
I am in. For 20 grand I now can have a jet for display on my front lawn. The wife will kill me after vthis purchase.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:08:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By passgas55: I am in. For 20 grand I now can have a jet for display on my front lawn. The wife will kill me after vthis purchase. Well, I mean, Stalin was right when he said "Death solves all problems. No man, no problem." |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:10:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Parts is parts.
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:32:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stoner63a: MIG-23K in Holt Florida front yard Google Earth 30 Deg 45' 17.61" N 86 Deg 41' 48.37" W Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stoner63a: Originally Posted By Findsman: A Mig-31 in the front yard would be the ultimate "keep up with the Jones" move.  Google Earth 30 Deg 45' 17.61" N 86 Deg 41' 48.37" W |
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:40:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By deschutes541: I saw someone speculate that they were bought to prevent the Russians from getting spare parts. My first thought as well. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:48:55 AM EDT
[#13]
There’s no guarantee that these are being bought as parts aircraft or for Ukraine. If you’re paying attention to what’s going on in Africa, Countries are aligning with China or the west, and there’s the real potential for territorial wars and score settling. The fastest way to get some double digit IQ dictator to align with the west is to promise him some fancy fighter jets. And even Soviet fighter bomber technology as far superior to a nonexistent Air Force.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:13:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I doubt many are combat/airworthy for $20k Spare parts at most. Most likely. Probably rusted out piles of scrap at this point. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:17:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Israel is in the business of updating avionics and modernizing former Soviet aircraft. Buying these airframes, and paying the Israelis to update and restore them would be a great way to shift some corporate welfare to Israel, and leave us with a nice little arsenal of competent combat aircraft that could be used to buy influence in Africa.
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:29:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I doubt many are combat/airworthy for $20k Spare parts at most. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:34:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Turn them into reusable drones and give them to the Ukes. Russians won't be able to differentiate between friend and foe. They will have to shoot down everything that flies, including their own jets.
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:39:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarandM1: They'll get what they pay for in this case: The Russian versions of those planes are far superior to these, unless the US plans on financing upgrades in weapons and avionics. It would be like putting a 1980s Block 10 F-16 up against a Block 72 version. After 40 years of upgrades they're completely different planes. AH yes, but what does a S-400 missile cost? how many does russia have left? This is the old "run enemy out of ammo" tactic...
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:39:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Mom I want F18...son we have F18 at home
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:50:46 AM EDT
[#20]
A good deal for everyone.
Ukraine gets parts birds or possibly flying examples. Seller gets money. We deprive Russia of more planes to threaten the west and Ukraine Win for everyone |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:54:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheKill: Handing them right over to Ukraine for sure. And that's cheap! |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:33:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: A good deal for everyone. Ukraine gets parts birds or possibly flying examples. Seller gets money. We deprive Russia of more planes to threaten the west and Ukraine Win for everyone So at what point do we stop spending money on Ukraine? |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:37:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Kazakh and Russian relations aren't exactly at an all time high. They're trying to get Putin to start some shit there so they can get that sweet and endless "Defend Democracy" $. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:54:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: So at what point do we stop spending money on Ukraine? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:05:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By F4Squid: $20k? I'd of bought a mig29 or 31, I'd be playing DCS in my front yard right now. There's a bunch of specat jaguars up for sale at the moment and no one wants them. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:26:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Our 21 year old nanny was a semi-finalist in the Ms Kazakhstan competition. Where are the pics of said nanny, and /or the said competition?  or  |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:38:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: A Mig-31 in the front yard would be the ultimate “keep up with the Jones” move. Or KEEP OF THE GRASS! |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By KA3B: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-buys-81-soviet-era-145127753.html The US has purchased 81 Soviet-era combat aircraft from Kazakhstan, the Kyiv Post reports. Kazakhstan, which is upgrading its air fleet, auctioned off 117 Soviet-era fighter and bomber aircraft, including MiG-31 interceptors, MiG-27 fighter bombers, MiG-29 fighters, and Su-24 bombers from the 1970s and 1980s. The motive behind the US purchase remains undisclosed, said the Post, but it raised the possibility of their potential use in Ukraine, where similar aircraft are in service. https://www.defensemirror.com/news/36665 We inspected those jets for the government. They didn’t want them going to Russia for spare parts. Don’t even know if they are worth sending to UKR for parts, but they do have good over haul abilities. @KA3B  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:43:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: Maybe they don't intend to use them for parts. Wikki says Ukraine "has retired their MiG 27's" but doesn't give any info to how may they had or when they retired them. They might still have some 27 pilots or training plans. And if the 31's are still flight worthy, it might be easier to transition MiG 25 pilots to it than the F16 which seem to be delayed until the second coming of Jesus Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Ukraine has zero use for MIG-31 and MIG-27 parts as they have zero examples. This was to deny Russia or use as decoys. Maybe they don't intend to use them for parts. Wikki says Ukraine "has retired their MiG 27's" but doesn't give any info to how may they had or when they retired them. They might still have some 27 pilots or training plans. And if the 31's are still flight worthy, it might be easier to transition MiG 25 pilots to it than the F16 which seem to be delayed until the second coming of Jesus UAs MiG-27s were parked at the Lviv plant when the war started. UA doesn't have any active MiG-25s. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:43:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: We have a lot here that are government or contractor operated too for adversarial training. Seems like a good deal if they're not total shitheaps. 4477th first, then Draken, AA, etc. The agency still owns/operates it, we just don't call it Air America anymore. Only problem I can see is if the types listed are correct(probably not), how will spares for a Mig-31 be obtained? Didn't know the Kazaks had any, thought those were Soviet/Russian ADF only... |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:47:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarandM1: They'll get what they pay for in this case: The Russian versions of those planes are far superior to these, unless the US plans on financing upgrades in weapons and avionics. It would be like putting a 1980s Block 10 F-16 up against a Block 72 version. After 40 years of upgrades they're completely different planes. LOL, still triyng the monkey model bullshit, Comrade? I would not be surprised to find out that the RuAF shit has not been upgraded in decades which means it's the exact same shit. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:52:15 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:56:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Abakan: LOL, still triyng the monkey model bullshit, Comrade? I would not be surprised to find out that the RuAF shit has not been upgraded in decades which means it's the exact same shit. He simps hard for Russia. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 2:42:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SFHC: We inspected those jets for the government. They didn’t want them going to Russia for spare parts. Nice info!  |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 4:41:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I doubt many are combat/airworthy for $20k Spare parts at most. Maybe it was a clever move to pull a huge stash of spare parts out of the reach of Russia? |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 8:20:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SFHC: We inspected those jets for the government. They didn’t want them going to Russia for spare parts. Don’t even know if they are worth sending to UKR for parts, but they do have good over haul abilities. @KA3B https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4687-_W__jpeg-3201309.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4686-_W__jpeg-3201310.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4683-_W__jpeg-3201312.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4685-_W__jpeg-3201313.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SFHC: Originally Posted By KA3B: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-buys-81-soviet-era-145127753.html The US has purchased 81 Soviet-era combat aircraft from Kazakhstan, the Kyiv Post reports. Kazakhstan, which is upgrading its air fleet, auctioned off 117 Soviet-era fighter and bomber aircraft, including MiG-31 interceptors, MiG-27 fighter bombers, MiG-29 fighters, and Su-24 bombers from the 1970s and 1980s. The motive behind the US purchase remains undisclosed, said the Post, but it raised the possibility of their potential use in Ukraine, where similar aircraft are in service. https://www.defensemirror.com/news/36665 We inspected those jets for the government. They didn’t want them going to Russia for spare parts. Don’t even know if they are worth sending to UKR for parts, but they do have good over haul abilities. @KA3B https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4687-_W__jpeg-3201309.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4686-_W__jpeg-3201310.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4683-_W__jpeg-3201312.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203891/IMG_4685-_W__jpeg-3201313.JPG I’ll start the bidding at $30k for a lawn ornament MIG-29! The U.S. can make money! (they will melt them i bet) |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:08:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: So at what point do we stop spending money on Ukraine? When the war is over, Russia stops being belligerent and starting conflicts, and Christ returns. The price of security and peace is eternal vigilance. Evil never sleeps. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:11:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: When the war is over, Russia stops being belligerent and starting conflicts, and Christ returns. The price of security and peace is eternal vigilance. Evil never sleeps. I recall hearing a story awhile ago about the fall of the medieval kingdom of Hungary. Short version, the nobility sabotaged their own military for a tax cut.  The Folly of Liberal History Discussed around 7 minutes in on this. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:32:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I’ll start the bidding at $30k for a lawn ornament MIG-29! The U.S. can make money! (they will melt them i bet) I'll bet those are going to be flown out to Poland and then Ukraine as parts. Anything is restorable with enough time and money. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:34:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I’ll start the bidding at $30k for a lawn ornament MIG-29! The U.S. can make money! (they will melt them i bet) Problem is transport costs will eat you alive. No ports in Kaz. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:37:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: We have a lot here that are government or contractor operated too for adversarial training. Seems like a good deal if they're not total shitheaps. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:09:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I doubt many are combat/airworthy for $20k Spare parts at most. Ukraine probably desperately needs spare parts for their aircraft. I understand they had to dig through their own aircraft junkyard and museums to get more SU-24 Fencers flying to launch Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG cruise missiles. They started the war with only 6 |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:21:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Ukraine has zero use for MIG-31 and MIG-27 parts as they have zero examples. This was to deny Russia or use as decoys. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Originally Posted By RodMI: Russia would grab them if we didn't and Ukraine needs them. Ukraine has zero use for MIG-31 and MIG-27 parts as they have zero examples. This was to deny Russia or use as decoys. The Kazaks may have just pulled buy it all or don't buy anything sales ploy. Gets them a few more dollars and gets the junk cleared out. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:27:44 AM EDT
[#44]
I think you guys are all missing how American aide works.
Americans will get possession of the old aircraft but think of it as a trade in, not just the transfer of old planes. They will use the money to buy new American planes and parts instead. American workers and companies will have to make them and the buyers will be dependent on the USA for parts and training. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 3:01:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I recall hearing a story awhile ago about the fall of the medieval kingdom of Hungary. Short version, the nobility sabotaged their own military for a tax cut.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w38t-NhrADMDiscussed around 7 minutes in on this. Thanks @hesperus! I will watch it. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 3:08:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: So at what point do we stop spending money on Ukraine? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By fadedsun: A good deal for everyone. Ukraine gets parts birds or possibly flying examples. Seller gets money. We deprive Russia of more planes to threaten the west and Ukraine Win for everyone So at what point do we stop spending money on Ukraine? Never. Corrupt politicians still need kickbacks. Lonely losers still need cheap mail order brides. And people still need to virtue signal from the comfort of their basements. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 4:52:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I doubt many are combat/airworthy for $20k Spare parts at most. Probably or the Kazakhstan government is trying not to piss off Putin by playing both sides. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 4:55:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Makarov]
[#48]
I’d pay $20K for a super cool lawn ornament like that
but I also think old toilets used as flower pots are classy, too
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DEU
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Posted: 4/30/2024 5:23:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Makes me want to buy a MIG-31 and sit in it while blasting Magic spear
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Posted: 4/30/2024 5:46:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm]
[#50]
I know of guy that back in the early 90's, after the fall of the USSR and their "expansion" in Africa, that bought 100's of Migs on what were essentially boneyards in many countries for pennies on the dollar. The Africans, with IQs in the 70s were incapable of even fueling let alone properly maintaining these aircraft, so the birds just sat out in the open on the airfields. It turns out that Soviet aircraft are pretty durable. He had crews of AC mechanics from former eastern bloc countries come down, pull the engines, crate them and send them back to Poland IIRC to be refurbished. He then sold them to hospitals and non-profits in back in Africa as primary electrical power generation turbines….seems they ran forever on diesel. He also crated the now engineless air frames, had them sent back to Poland as well and everything disassembled for either spare parts or scrap. He was able to do all this by leveraging the economic quandary that both Africa and Eastern Europe were in right after the wall came down. |
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