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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:39:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set. A lot of people on ar15.com hate capitalism. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:40:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jjrockbush: Who is paying $1000? my ins copay is $10. For 6 weeks supply. It lowered my A1C from 7.2 to 6.5 in 6 months. I am not trying to lose weight, it was prescribed to lower my A1C.  My wife is diabetic. We pay $922 for her Ozempic each month. Oh, and another $450 for Jardiance. Both are in the super-duper-none-of-this-copay-shit category of drugs by her insurance company. The only good news is we get through her $7000 deductible by April. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:41:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Selling it for $5 will recoup their investment after how long?
Surely this takes into account the cost of R&D, the cost of clinical trials, getting the drug approved with the FDA? Additionally, the cost to make and recoup the investment isn’t the only consideration. Supply and demand, their fiduciary responsibility to their investors to make as much money as they can while they hold the patent. I’m sure this was all considered. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:42:45 PM EDT
[#4]
What is a fair profit? In my mind the absolute top end of what they can get.
I enjoy new therapies and breakthroughs and those R&D dollars do not fall from the money tree, they are provided by $1000.00 medications that people are clamoring for. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:42:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: Ethical R&D, hiring teams of doctors, ethical testing and multiple studies, and FDA approval is a years-long process. Even a drug that was 100% free to make and required no advertising/incentivization to get out there would cost many millions of dollars to actually initially bring to market. That's why new drugs enjoy a period of time without competition. Not to mention drug companies are testing dozens of drugs and procedure and they don't always pan out. The ones that do make it to market have to pay for the ones that never see the light of day. Yup. At the end of the day, the company’s goal is to make money, not benefit humanity while breaking even, or risking loss. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:45:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jjrockbush: Who is paying $1000? my ins copay is $10. For 6 weeks supply. It lowered my A1C from 7.2 to 6.5 in 6 months. I am not trying to lose weight, it was prescribed to lower my A1C. I have very high insulin resistance ("shockingly high" was the phrase my doc used). My doctor thinks some of these drugs being recently marketed as weight loss things (ie: ozempic) would be great for my specific condition, but insurance refuses to cover them without a diabetes diagnosis. Evidently insulin resistance alone is something that separate from the beetus or even prediabetes, because I'm neither diabetic or even prediabetic by whatever metrics they use to determine that on several blood tests throughout the years. I guess my A1C(?) and blood sugar(?) numbers are just fine. I should probably learn more about what they all mean. He said he can prescribe any one of these drugs to me if I wanted, but it will be like $1-2k month without insurance and since I'm not even prediabetic there's no way I'd get coverage. I asked him point blank, OK lets schedule another blood test and how can I purposefully fail it to get a diabetes diagnosis... just a couple donuts and a milkshake on the way to the blood test or something. He was not very receptive to my strategy 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:47:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MeInMediocrity: When the patent expires, the price will probably drop. If you want to make real change, shorten the duration of all patents by about 5 years. When the patent system was originally conceived, things moved much slower. Have drawings and test reports to send to the other office? Wait for the Pony Express guy to get here. Yes, I know the USPS still runs at that speed, but most things nowadays go over the internet in a few minutes. The reduced cycle time for most business activities should be reflected in the patent duration. And here’s an example of someone who doesn’t understand how free market economy and finances, work. Give them a shorter time to recoup their R&D and approval costs, AND make a profit, and all that results, is that they jack up the price even more, because of the shorter time to do that. This is simply a different way of saying, “People need higher wages. Raise the minimum wage to $20, so people can afford stuff”. Yeah, but when companies have to pay everyone more, they raise their prices, so those people who are earning more wind up bitching about how everything is more expensive, and they still can’t buy stuff. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:47:58 PM EDT
[#8]
to get some idea of the 'new drug' development, go to cnn business and look at stocks that are showing major movements. its often biotech and you'll see s company move from nothing to 50 dollars and back down as drugs with promise are developed and then failed trials. or after ok'd side effects create lawsuits that kill profits.
there is a lot of crap in the medical industrial complex but just because its cheap to manufacturer something reflect the total cost to bring that product to market. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:52:40 PM EDT
[#9]
You can get it at a compounding pharmacy for 80% off the brand name price.
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:55:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: Yes a compounding pharmacy can and will make it for you for much less money. Or buy semaglutide peptides for research purposes… |
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SGP
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:05:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluemax_1: And here's an example of someone who doesn't understand how free market economy and finances, work. Give them a shorter time to recoup their R&D and approval costs, AND make a profit, and all that results, is that they jack up the price even more, because of the shorter time to do that. This is simply a different way of saying, "People need higher wages. Raise the minimum wage to $20, so people can afford stuff". Yeah, but when companies have to pay everyone more, they raise their prices, so those people who are earning more wind up bitching about how everything is more expensive, and they still can't buy stuff. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:07:21 PM EDT
[#12]
It's hard to pay for research when selling prescriptions for $5 a month.
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:10:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By erud: Exactly. Drug companies are not going so spend millions of dollars and 10+ years of R&D making a product to sell for $5 per month. There is the key. They need to get back R&D costs in addition to a reasonable profit which almost surely will be far more that $5/month retail. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:12:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: Yes a compounding pharmacy can and will make it for you for much less money. But it is not exactly the same thing. The compounders are using semaglutide sodium. FDA on Semaglutide Sodium |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:13:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Supply and demand.
There is a never ending demand of obese folks who’d rather pay $1000 a month to lose weight, rather than exercise and not hammer down on fast food every meal. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:19:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15bang: 50% of r&d is paid by us. Lol No not even in the ballpark. Maybe a few % of the original research identifying a potential target. But it takes billions to do the RnD and get something to market. And the fail rate even very late in the process is quite high. Drug companies assume huge risks to do this. Could it be far cheaper? Yes, get rid of the FDA and take your chances. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:29:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set. I agree. I would charge them $600/gallon for gas! |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:31:17 PM EDT
[#18]
I think fat people should pay more for health insurance. So there's that.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:35:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By phungus: Isn’t its main use for diabetes? |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:45:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Are other companies free to produce the medicine and sell it cheaper while still making a profit? If not, that's not very capitalist of us.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:56:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:59:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set. I’m sure Yale calculated all the salaries and years of research, along with the costs of research for the next generation of drugs. drug prices are outrageous, but so is that claim. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:59:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jjrockbush: Who is paying $1000? my ins copay is $10. For 6 weeks supply. It lowered my A1C from 7.2 to 6.5 in 6 months. I am not trying to lose weight, it was prescribed to lower my A1C. You do understand your prescription is subsidized? (ie. Paid for by somebody else). The $10 is a token amount, to make you feel like you’re contributing something. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:00:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AWMCoalition: That's can't cover the R&D cost which is probably in the Billions. I haven't read the whole article. It may take $5 in material to produce, but that's not the only cost. Profits from one drug will fund current drug costs plus startup cost for other products. What's the R&D cost, which is probably all the article covers. What's the cost of insurance? One lawsuit can be millions, or fairly open ended. What's the cost of the advertising? Just think of the cost of catering for a few of the actors in the commercials. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:12:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BobP]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AL25: Researchers at Yale University, King’s College Hospital in London and the nonprofit Doctors Without Borders should develop their own drugs and sell them for whatever price they want. They actually are partly causing the higher cost in the US. They lobby the companies for free or reduced rate on drugs. Drug companies will donate some drugs to other poor countries. Someone needs to pay for those free drugs. Back when it was popular to go to Canada for cheaper drugs, it came out why drugs were cheaper in Canada. The Canadian government required the companies give them samples, in some cases the asked for formulas. The Canadian government would tell the companies how much they could charge. If the company didn't agree, the Canadian government would produce a generic version of the drug and lock out the originating company. Please ignore conversion rates. Let's say a drug costs $5/unit to produce. To make a profit, the company needs to sell it for $7/unit. Canada tells them to sell it in Canada for $4/unit. The company now has to come up with $3/unit somewhere else to make up for the loss. Guess who pays? Now the US customer is paying $10/unit while Canada pays $4/unit. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:14:02 PM EDT
[#26]
The ingredient costs is just a small part of the price of the drug. How much was the research and trials cost?
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:14:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low-Cap: Yes. And now do insulin, greedy motherfuckers. And not for the sake of the lardasses but for kids who have type 1. Good RX shows it for $35/month. How much do you feel it should cost? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:14:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Can we go after car makers next for selling expensive cars?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:17:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: Are other companies free to produce the medicine and sell it cheaper while still making a profit? If not, that's not very capitalist of us. Unironically: IP, copyright law, patents, etc is extremely anti-capitalist butttt that’s a little too radical of an idea for the “oh yeah definitely $1000 a month to recoup costs is pure capitalism with zero government fuckery” crowd. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:19:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ronin72]
[#30]
@Dorcas
Is she on Medicare? Do you qualify for 340B? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dorcas: My wife is diabetic. We pay $922 for her Ozempic each month. Oh, and another $450 for Jardiance. Both are in the super-duper-none-of-this-copay-shit category of drugs by her insurance company. The only good news is we get through her $7000 deductible by April. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:20:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:20:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin72: @Dorcas Is she on Medicare? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin72: @Dorcas Is she on Medicare? Originally Posted By Dorcas: My wife is diabetic. We pay $922 for her Ozempic each month. Oh, and another $450 for Jardiance. Both are in the super-duper-none-of-this-copay-shit category of drugs by her insurance company. The only good news is we get through her $7000 deductible by April. No. Way too young. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:21:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15bang: 50% of r&d is paid by us. I'd like to know how tax payer money gets funneled to them for R&D, or in the form of grants, tax breaks etc and how much they will sell it for outside of America. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:21:30 PM EDT
[#34]
As someone with extensive knowledge of big pharma...
The average production line can make dozens of products... A schedulers job is to schedule (and confirm ingredients) the line to be the most profitable. If the gubment said I could only sell the product for $5, that product would simply not be scheduled. I would schedule other products that are more profitable. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:21:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moleonlobby: True. On the flip side, American prices are so much higher because we subsidize drug sales in other countries. About the same as everything else, I guess. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moleonlobby: Originally Posted By Going_Commando: Someone has to pay for the r&d and FDA approval. If these highly educated fucking morons would realize that new medications and technology don't grow on trees or appear in thin air, then maybe pharmaceutical pricing would make more sense. No one is going to figure out a god damned thing if they don't get paid to do it. True. On the flip side, American prices are so much higher because we subsidize drug sales in other countries. About the same as everything else, I guess. Wait. Are you telling me that price points vary around the world because what people are willing to pay varies with income? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ronin72]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dorcas: No. Way too young. @Dorcas Have you applied for a coupon card? Do you qualify for 340B? |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:22:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Are they factoring in R&D and other costs?
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:25:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: A lot of people on ar15.com hate capitalism. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set. A lot of people on ar15.com hate capitalism. Including the OP. The fungus is among us. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:28:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jjrockbush: Who is paying $1000? my ins copay is $10. For 6 weeks supply. It lowered my A1C from 7.2 to 6.5 in 6 months. I am not trying to lose weight, it was prescribed to lower my A1C. We're on Medicare[retired] my wife is diabetic and prescribed it for her A1C. Last month it was $550 for it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:28:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AWMCoalition: That's can't cover the R&D cost which is probably in the Billions. also no doubt for retainer / lawyers / insurance against sometimes inevitable lawsuits from possible un-intended long term side effects... |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:31:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Their property. The price is theirs to set. This. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:35:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By erud: Exactly. Drug companies are not going so spend millions of dollars and 10+ years of R&D making a product to sell for $5 per month. Not to mention the 90% of drugs that they work on that never make it into production. Or the countries that we allow to make/buy sell it way cheaper so Americans can subsidize those countries |
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SGP
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:36:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Wait. Are you telling me that price points vary around the world because what people are willing to pay varies with income? 
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:36:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Now let’s have Yale figure out how much an education should cost.
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:22:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Wait. Are you telling me that price points vary around the world because what people are willing to pay varies with income? Not to mention countries like France have a good measure of socialized medicine and so taxes on the people pay for a good portion of the meds. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:28:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Get Lelita on the case. Sounds like textbook fraud, victim or not. A private citizen or entity assigning their own value to property? Especially when it's been deemed cheaper? Consumers have been misled on the non-approved price and for sure spent more money under that illusion.
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:35:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Big pharma simping? After covid and the scams that were pulled? I'm shocked at arfcom
 You guys have no idea wtf you are talking about. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:51:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SparticleBrane]
[#48]
Arfcom: "My health insurance premiums are insane and out of control!!
 Also Arfcom: "I'm totally ok with pharmaceutical companies charging exorbitant prices for drugs, and if you're not ok with being bent over without any lube like I am, you're a dirty communist!!" ...without any trace of irony and not seeing the connection between those two things.  For all of you defending the pharmaceutical companies, don't forget that you are paying for these exorbitantly-priced drugs directly out of your own pocket through your health insurance premiums, even if you're not taking said drugs. You're basically applauding these companies and begging them to bend you over without any lube at your next health insurance premiums renewal. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:53:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hostile1: Big pharma simping? After covid and the scams that were pulled? I'm shocked at arfcom You guys have no idea wtf you are talking about. Most of arfcom would go under the desk and fellate a big company's CEO just to prove how capitalist they are. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:54:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By L_JE: Yale, King's College and the Doctor's group are free to develop their own pharmaceuticals. Attached File |
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