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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:17:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Donut777donut: Who thought what was impossible? It all comes down to price. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Donut777donut: Originally Posted By jm0502: PSA steps up and does something no one thought was possible. People still bitch. Who thought what was impossible? It all comes down to price. Yeah, we’ve been making brass cased in 7,62x39 for literally decades. Not exactly impossible, it was just hard to have that US made ammo compete with dirt cheap steel cased imports. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:18:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jerret_S: 2005- 2007 the golden years. AK kits out the ass with barrels. $80-100 OTD on 7.62x39 for a 1k case at the local gun show. Also remember buying that Czech silver tip 7.62x54 for $60 a crate the same time. Sucks I was only making $10-14/hour just out of school for that timeframe My first rifle was an M1 Garand. My second rifle was a Chinese SKS. My "SHTF/HD" loadout was the SKS with a Chinese stripper clip vest. That's literally all I could afford as a college student in 2005-2007. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:19:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaxxII: One of the bigger arguments against brass cased ammo (x39 & 5.45), is that semi autos Brass fired from AK’s does not have an easy life. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:20:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Go check your AR. Extractor is also steel. Most folks are full of shit. AKs run brass case fine. Only "hard on brass" part is some of them launch the brass into the dust cover and dent the brass. Just size it, load it and shoot it again. I've been running the same brass cases through my ARs and AKs for a while. Brass is no worse off after AK use. Exactly. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:23:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackTaco: Scored this about 10 years back on the cheap. Along with 2 brand new in the box Norinco NHM91’s….I think about $300 ea. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/126656/IMG_3660_jpeg-3169674.JPG And a few crates of some other 762x39 that I forgot what it is.  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/126656/IMG_3659_jpeg-3169675.JPGFuck me- what a deal! That unknown ammo is probably Yugo. Hard to tell from that angle though. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:30:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lexustech48]
[#6]
223 Rem or 556, no matter. I want to see an entire factories dedicated to just the production of this in steel case by PSA. I want to keep my brass for business, but have extra cheap and plentiful steel case for training.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:30:33 AM EDT
[#7]
I believe I read in the AK ammo group that its was going to be .45 cents per round. Hard pass if so.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:32:51 AM EDT
[#8]
About frigging time! My AK's are hungry.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:02:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 64FXR: I believe I read in the AK ammo group that its was going to be .45 cents per round. Hard pass if so. 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:08:32 AM EDT
[#10]
One thing this thread is bringing to light is that most of you just stack and don't actually shoot.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:33:37 AM EDT
[#11]
I may buy some depending on the price and just because I like to support PSA.
It's not like I need any more right now, but I eventually will. Unlike some people, although I have bought cases of it in the past when it was way cheaper, it's not just sitting around waiting for me to take pictures of it and post it on Arfcom, reminiscing about the good ol' days of cheap ammo. I have 12 guns in 7.62x39mm (half of which are not AKs) and I shoot it frequently. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:17:06 AM EDT
[#12]
My understanding is that as a manufacturing input steel is significantly less expensive than brass. If everything else is equal (American QC and quality for bullet production and loading) the cost savings will be worthwhile. Steel casing, by themselves, are not bad.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:35:14 AM EDT
[#13]
I doubt it will be under $450 a case for a while.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:41:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Cries in belt fed 762 commie
I never thought it would be more expensive than .223 |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:46:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: My first rifle was an M1 Garand. My second rifle was a Chinese SKS. My "SHTF/HD" loadout was the SKS with a Chinese stripper clip vest. That's literally all I could afford as a college student in 2005-2007. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Jerret_S: 2005- 2007 the golden years. AK kits out the ass with barrels. $80-100 OTD on 7.62x39 for a 1k case at the local gun show. Also remember buying that Czech silver tip 7.62x54 for $60 a crate the same time. Sucks I was only making $10-14/hour just out of school for that timeframe My first rifle was an M1 Garand. My second rifle was a Chinese SKS. My "SHTF/HD" loadout was the SKS with a Chinese stripper clip vest. That's literally all I could afford as a college student in 2005-2007. One of my SHTF loadouts is still an SKS and battle belt setup to hold SKS stripper clips (among other things.) 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:57:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toby1: Impress me, start producing 7.62x25. Yup, a a little ar based pdw would be awesome |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:11:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Your1Savior: Get x39 back down to 15-25 cpr and I'll buy an AK again it's never going back to that.... unfortunately... |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:52:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 64FXR: I believe I read in the AK ammo group that its was going to be .45 cents per round. Hard pass if so. AAC 5.56 55gr FMJ is currently 50cpr. I would like to think steel case should be cheaper than that, but I'm not sure how much of a difference the case makes in input costs, and I would think the tooling costs for this endeavor are eye watering. For the 2A community, the biggest win from PSA/JJE doing this isn't cheaper ammo. It's having a domestic source of this ammo. We've lost foreign ammo sources because the US government was angry at the producing nation (China), because sanctions (Russia), because wars (Ukraine), because the threat of wars (Taiwan & Serbia), and because BATFE arbitrarily decided common rifle loads are actually armor piercing pistol ammo (5.45 and 7.62x39). JJE building a big ammo printer and making it go BRRRRR is a great thing for us, even if the prices aren't awesome. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:33:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: AAC 5.56 55gr FMJ is currently 50cpr. I would like to think steel case should be cheaper than that, but I'm not sure how much of a difference the case makes in input costs, and I would think the tooling costs for this endeavor are eye watering. For the 2A community, the biggest win from PSA/JJE doing this isn't cheaper ammo. It's having a domestic source of this ammo. We've lost foreign ammo sources because the US government was angry at the producing nation (China), because sanctions (Russia), because wars (Ukraine), because the threat of wars (Taiwan & Serbia), and because BATFE arbitrarily decided common rifle loads are actually armor piercing pistol ammo (5.45 and 7.62x39). JJE building a big ammo printer and making it go BRRRRR is a great thing for us, even if the prices aren't awesome. This is the way I see it. It will be nice to have a domestic supply of 5.45x39 especially. I do not expect prices to ever go back to 15-18 cents/rd like we saw years ago, for reasons you mentioned above. Much of that was coming from surplus stocks being sold off cheap, or being produced in formerly state owned arsenals where the cost of the equipment had long been written off. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:46:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Even if it’s on The expensive side it’s better than nothing since any import ammo could be banned over night
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:51:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Even if it’s on The expensive side it’s better than nothing since any import ammo could be banned over night Domestic ammo could be banned over night too. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:51:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 64FXR: I believe I read in the AK ammo group that its was going to be .45 cents per round. Hard pass if so. What's the alternative? The cheapest imported steel case 7.62x39 is currently around 52 cents/rnd |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:55:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Donut777donut: Domestic ammo could be banned over night too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Donut777donut: Originally Posted By Smd226: Even if it’s on The expensive side it’s better than nothing since any import ammo could be banned over night Domestic ammo could be banned over night too. Domestic ammo isn't getting banned without both houses of Congress signing off it. Existing legislation puts the bar to ban imported ammo much lower. Imported ammo can and has been lost due to EOs, sanctions, ATF decisions, and the producing country re-prioritizing. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:56:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Domestic ammo isn't getting banned without both houses of Congress signing off it. Existing legislation puts the bar to ban imported ammo much lower. Imported ammo can and has been lost due to EOs, sanctions, ATF decisions, and the producing country re-prioritizing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By Donut777donut: Originally Posted By Smd226: Even if it’s on The expensive side it’s better than nothing since any import ammo could be banned over night Domestic ammo could be banned over night too. Domestic ammo isn't getting banned without both houses of Congress signing off it. Existing legislation puts the bar to ban imported ammo much lower. Imported ammo can and has been lost due to EOs, sanctions, ATF decisions, and the producing country re-prioritizing. I understand that, but it’s possible. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:16:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Come on, $7 per box of 20!
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:20:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JamesJones]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: What's the alternative? The cheapest imported steel case 7.62x39 is currently around 52 cents/rnd Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: Originally Posted By 64FXR: I believe I read in the AK ammo group that its was going to be .45 cents per round. Hard pass if so. What's the alternative? The cheapest imported steel case 7.62x39 is currently around 52 cents/rnd I occasionally see $450 a case. I primarily buy AAC now but I've noticed they stay right at the cheapest level. If other brands go down they normally will follow but they stay right about even with competition. The only outlier is the 77gr or heavy match type loads. They are killing that market in price. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:20:45 PM EDT
[#27]
No lacquer?
Booo! |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:24:15 PM EDT
[#28]
MAACA . . . MakeAllAmmoCheapAgain
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:24:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I don’t know if I can trust psa made 7.62x39. I’m sitting on about 16 cans of Barnaul 840rd spam cans. I’d rather buy commercial spec stuff from Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, etc. Former and future soviet bloc only. I get it. Russia is an amazing, amazing country. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:26:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I don’t know if I can trust psa made 7.62x39. I’m sitting on about 16 cans of Barnaul 840rd spam cans. I’d rather buy commercial spec stuff from Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, etc.  Not sure if serious.jpg |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:28:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Evintos]
[#31]
There's one that looks like the 2 piece Shell Shock Technologies NAS3 cases. It looks like it got the gap or it could be an optical illusion.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:28:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homernomer: Former and future soviet bloc only. I get it. Russia is an amazing, amazing country.  Attached File Attached File |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:35:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: 185 a k is cheap. The 99$ a case is never coming back. Never. I remember getting 7.62x39 in NC for $75 a case in 2003 .😪 |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:56:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NATIONALIST: I remember getting 7.62x39 in NC for $75 a case in 2003 .😪 I remember getting boxes of wolf military classic for 1.99 from Cheaper than dirt in 2004. Those were the days. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:59:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JamesJones]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I remember getting boxes of wolf military classic for 1.99 from Cheaper than dirt in 2004. Those were the days. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By NATIONALIST: I remember getting 7.62x39 in NC for $75 a case in 2003 .😪 I remember getting boxes of wolf military classic for 1.99 from Cheaper than dirt in 2004. Those were the days. Unless PSA decides to make AKs great again I feel like "I remember when is the dumbest form of conversation" Just quotes from Tony Soprano |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:42:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jerret_S: 2005- 2007 the golden years. AK kits out the ass with barrels. $80-100 OTD on 7.62x39 for a 1k case at the local gun show. Also remember buying that Czech silver tip 7.62x54 for $60 a crate the same time. Sucks I was only making $10-14/hour just out of school for that timeframe the years 2000-2001 were epic, too. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:49:39 PM EDT
[#37]
I'll believe it when I see it
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:54:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesJones: Unless PSA decides to make AKs great again I feel like "I remember when is the dumbest form of conversation" Just quotes from Tony Soprano Well they've been selling them for years. I'm sure the number sold would shock you. They wouldn't just blindly ramp up/start up ammo production without numbers. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:59:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Per Jamin, the initial steel case plans are 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, and 5.45x39 @governmentman Where do you find reloadable 5.45? |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:05:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: I didn't know that. Why is that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: Originally Posted By MaxxII: One of the bigger arguments against brass cased ammo (x39 & 5.45), is that AK extractors are rough on brass. Brass fired from AK’s does not have an easy life. I didn't know that. Why is that? @11boomboom, As mentioned by other posters, AK are over-gassed and designed around steel-cased ammo. Steel does not contract as rapidly as brass does after firing and needs a strong grippy extractor to tear it out of the chamber. Because the AK is designed around steel-cased ammo, it is very rough on the rims of brass-cased ammo. The two AK's I shoot the most often are my Arsenal SLR101s (7.62x39) and my PSA AK 101 (5.56x45). Both are rough on the rim of brass-cased ammo. As noted by other posters, you can mitigate this with either a KNS adjustable piston or an Occam Defense adjustable gas block. I do not know if that will make the case rim's less damaged or not, but it should make the gun recoil a little easier and result in less denting as the case is flung out of the chamber. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:09:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Go check your AR. Extractor is also steel. Most folks are full of shit. AKs run brass case fine. Only "hard on brass" part is some of them launch the brass into the dust cover and dent the brass. Just size it, load it and shoot it again. I've been running the same brass cases through my ARs and AKs for a while. Brass is no worse off after AK use. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Originally Posted By Donut777donut: I would infer that the design of the ak steel extractor exerts force on the softer brass case damaging the brass from what he said. Go check your AR. Extractor is also steel. Most folks are full of shit. AKs run brass case fine. Only "hard on brass" part is some of them launch the brass into the dust cover and dent the brass. Just size it, load it and shoot it again. I've been running the same brass cases through my ARs and AKs for a while. Brass is no worse off after AK use. Both the AK's I shoot the most are hard on the rims of brass-cased ammo. The extractor is sharp and grippy and leaves jagged and rough edges on my brass. Yes, the extractor on the AR is steel. Brass comes out of the chamber easier than steel because of it's physical properties. Brass is more "springy" than steel and "springs" back to size allowing easier extraction than steel case. You can shoot steel case out of your AR's just fine. It will however wear out your extractor faster than using brass-cased ammo. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:29:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: governmentman]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TontoGoldstein: @governmentman Where do you find reloadable 5.45? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TontoGoldstein: Originally Posted By governmentman: Per Jamin, the initial steel case plans are 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, and 5.45x39 @governmentman Where do you find reloadable 5.45? Hornady can be found at ~95 cpr shipped from AE and a few others. Sportsman's Guide has been doing occasional coupons that are also good on ammo, and might be able to get it at 85 cpr or so if you catch that I'm still rationing my 5.45 7N6 stash have haven't had to buy any myself. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:29:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaxxII: Both the AK's I shoot the most are hard on the rims of brass-cased ammo. The extractor is sharp and grippy and leaves jagged and rough edges on my brass. Yes, the extractor on the AR is steel. Brass comes out of the chamber easier than steel because of it's physical properties. Brass is more "springy" than steel and "springs" back to size allowing easier extraction than steel case. You can shoot steel case out of your AR's just fine. It will however wear out your extractor faster than using brass-cased ammo. So pull your extractors and buff the sharp edges? It aint rocket science. Ive been running steel in ARs for a LONG time. Particularly 7.62x39. Ive only ever replaced one AR extractor and it was in a rifle that had never seen steel case. That was after many thousands of rounds. Many thousands. It was toast. Cheap insurance to have a few $18 extractors on hand. Brass is actually much easier to fire form than steel showing it is affected to a greater extent than steel under the pressures and temperatures in the chamber. Steel does not expand and form to the chamber as well and allows gas and debris to pass by as it does not seal the chamber. This is where the brass before steel but not brass after steel comes in. The brass will expand to the walls and "stick" to the carbon on the chamber walls. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:31:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Hornady can be found at ~95 cpr shipped from AE and a few others. I'm still rationing my 5.45 7N6 stash have haven't had to buy any myself. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein: Originally Posted By governmentman: Per Jamin, the initial steel case plans are 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, and 5.45x39 @governmentman Where do you find reloadable 5.45? Hornady can be found at ~95 cpr shipped from AE and a few others. I'm still rationing my 5.45 7N6 stash have haven't had to buy any myself. I havnt seen the Hornady brass for a while. I bought a few bags a while back. Otherwise I form 556/223 brass. A 545 bolt works fine but a 223/556 bolt can be swapped in as long as headspace is good. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:34:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: I havnt seen the Hornady brass for a while. I bought a few bags a while back. Otherwise I form 556/223 brass. A 545 bolt works fine but a 223/556 bolt can be swapped in as long as headspace is good. I'm seeing it in stock at several reputable sellers, so they must have done another run of it |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:35:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Spyider]
[#46]
if PSA can find a way to make the x39 ammo 30 cpr or less then I'll be buying... otherwise no thanks. That and I bet PSA won't load them hot like Barnaul does... that shit is some hot stuff and is EXCELLENT. For anyone wondering they run 100-150 fps faster than any other imported steel cased ammo. Shit, its faster than all the brass case offerings available. Standard deviation is only like 20 fps on average. Some amazing shit.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:38:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spyider: if PSA can find a way to make the x39 ammo 30 cpr or less then I'll be buying... otherwise no thanks. That and I bet PSA won't load them hot like Barnaul does... that shit is some hot stuff and is EXCELLENT. For anyone wondering they run 100-150 fps faster than any other imported steel cased ammo. Shit, its faster than all the brass case offerings available. Standard deviation is only like 20 fps on average. Some amazing shit. Are there any popular centerfire rifle cartridges at or under 30 cents per round? |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:40:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Are there any popular centerfire rifle cartridges at or under 30 cents per round? I don't think there are.  Like I said earlier, if the PSA 7.62x39 goes for 9mm prices, that's a huge win. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:51:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: So pull your extractors and buff the sharp edges? It aint rocket science. Ive been running steel in ARs for a LONG time. Particularly 7.62x39. Ive only ever replaced one AR extractor and it was in a rifle that had never seen steel case. That was after many thousands of rounds. Many thousands. It was toast. Cheap insurance to have a few $18 extractors on hand. Brass is actually much easier to fire form than steel showing it is affected to a greater extent than steel under the pressures and temperatures in the chamber. Steel does not expand and form to the chamber as well and allows gas and debris to pass by as it does not seal the chamber. This is where the brass before steel but not brass after steel comes in. The brass will expand to the walls and "stick" to the carbon on the chamber walls. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Originally Posted By MaxxII: Both the AK's I shoot the most are hard on the rims of brass-cased ammo. The extractor is sharp and grippy and leaves jagged and rough edges on my brass. Yes, the extractor on the AR is steel. Brass comes out of the chamber easier than steel because of it's physical properties. Brass is more "springy" than steel and "springs" back to size allowing easier extraction than steel case. You can shoot steel case out of your AR's just fine. It will however wear out your extractor faster than using brass-cased ammo. So pull your extractors and buff the sharp edges? It aint rocket science. Ive been running steel in ARs for a LONG time. Particularly 7.62x39. Ive only ever replaced one AR extractor and it was in a rifle that had never seen steel case. That was after many thousands of rounds. Many thousands. It was toast. Cheap insurance to have a few $18 extractors on hand. Brass is actually much easier to fire form than steel showing it is affected to a greater extent than steel under the pressures and temperatures in the chamber. Steel does not expand and form to the chamber as well and allows gas and debris to pass by as it does not seal the chamber. This is where the brass before steel but not brass after steel comes in. The brass will expand to the walls and "stick" to the carbon on the chamber walls. You're right. It aint rocket science. Thanks for confirming my point that AK's are rougher on brass, and that AR extractors get worn out faster on steel case. This isnt something to lose your mind on. Just understand the design of the platform and make accommodations as needed. Buying spare extractors for AR's you will be shooting alot of steel case is a smart thing to do. Like you said, it's cheap insurance. On the AK, if I was going to feed them a steady diet of brass, I'd be inclined to buff/file down the sharp edges. However, my point was that inherently, the AK platform is rough on brass. Not a big deal, just understand it and make accommodations as needed. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:52:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: I don't think there are. Like I said earlier, if the PSA 7.62x39 goes for 9mm prices, that's a huge win. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: Originally Posted By AbleArcher: Are there any popular centerfire rifle cartridges at or under 30 cents per round? I don't think there are. Like I said earlier, if the PSA 7.62x39 goes for 9mm prices, that's a huge win. 100% |
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