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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:28:29 PM EDT
[#1]
In general, I agree with his advice.
The only part I might have a very minor qualm with is his #1 recommendation of holstering the gun immediately. I've seen enough videos and stories of attackers downed by a Good Guy, only to have him 'come back alive' and continue the fight to the point of the victim needing to shoot again. That being said, I'm sure it's a very, very small percentage of the time. Otherwise, I agree with the poster above about local/state law. Learning the laws of your own state is critical to understanding how the legal concept of self-defense actually works and applies to every-day life. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:29:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JosephTurrisi: The Sheriff Deputy that taught my NC CHP class said if you are involved in a shooting to make sure your story is the only one to be heard meaning that you shoot to kill. He also said other than making the statement that you were in fear for your life not to say anything with out your attorney present And away we go. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:36:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: This thread again. Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:44:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Nice rack, by the way.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Nice rack, by the way. Not mine, just found it online.  Originally Posted By 99avant: ROTFL Thanks for the laugh, needed that Glad to help. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:45:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Florida members: don't follow legal advice from a non-Florida lawyer. Instead figure out who is a knowledgeable self defense criminal attorney in your area or region. Schedule some time with that attorney to talk about do's and don't's based on his or her experience in Florida courtrooms with Florida law and SAOs near you. Maybe even offer to pay for 30 minutes or and hour for this conversation. Maybe cost you $150 or so for 30 minutes. You'll learn a lot more practical information than a video by an attorney who doesn't know what an information is or the various types of SYG defenses allowed by statute, case law, and the rules of criminal procedure. This is not meant to disparage what the video in the OP says. It's just not Florida law. That's your pro-bono minute.  This is GD. Get out of here with your logic. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:46:57 PM EDT
[#6]
There's a guy here with a cat as his avatar. I don't recall his username. He's BTDT, maybe he'll chime in with personal experience.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:53:26 PM EDT
[#7]
In my wallet, I carry a card that I made up with tips from a similar Massad Ayoob video I watched.
1. Call in the incident. 2. Establish the dynamic - "Self defense due to _________". 3. "I would like to cooperate in your investigation, but I am unable to give any statement at this time." 4. Point out any evidence. 5. Point out any witnesses. 6. Request an attorney and say nothing more. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:55:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911. The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO.  |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:57:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jodan1776: Unless you're being sarcastic, this is the opposite of most of the points from Massad Ayoob's tips. that's why we so NEED a sarcasm emoji
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:10:58 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:12:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Florida members: don't follow legal advice from a non-Florida lawyer. Instead figure out who is a knowledgeable self defense criminal attorney in your area or region. Schedule some time with that attorney to talk about do's and don't's based on his or her experience in Florida courtrooms with Florida law and SAOs near you. Maybe even offer to pay for 30 minutes or and hour for this conversation. Maybe cost you $150 or so for 30 minutes. You'll learn a lot more practical information than a video by an attorney who doesn't know what an information is or the various types of SYG defenses allowed by statute, case law, and the rules of criminal procedure. This is not meant to disparage what the video in the OP says. It's just not Florida law. That's your pro-bono minute. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:16:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: that's why we so NEED a sarcasm emoji Yeah I figured it out after reading some other replies to your post |
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:37:16 PM EDT
[#13]
silence is golden.
phone no coverage. greyman. you only exist by the goodness of those irrevocable trusts, non profit orgs, offshore methods. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:44:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homernomer: What's interesting is that 25-28 years later, you still share that. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:06:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: This thread again. Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. This may be the stupidest advice I have ever read on this forum... And thats saying a lot... Leaving the scene of a car accident with injury is a felony in most states... Shoot and kill someone and leave?!?? Good luck with that... 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:33:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: This thread again. Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. Fleeing the scene of a shooting always looks good. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:39:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I know of a dozen shootings where people talked to police without a lawyer. Never charged, never arrested, never handcuffed. It depends on your location. NYC that is probably superb advice. And no, repeating “I was in fear for my life” because a 12 year old went into your yard to get his ball ain’t some magical spell to avoid charges. Obviously each scenario is different but a guy who kicked in your door to burglarize and catches a 55grain Com is a bit different than chasing down kids who egged your house. It’s location and situationally dependent how things are going to go down with local LE. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:08:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Call a lawyer that specializes in firearms laws, ASAP. Don't answer any questions from the PD, it will hurt you because that is admissible evidence if you say something wrong.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:29:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: It’s location and situationally dependent how things are going to go down with local LE. Correct. NYC would be different from Texas, Hunt county, Van Zandt, Johnson, etc. LA would be completely different also. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:35:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: People who don't want to wind up sharing a prison cell with other murderers don't. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By iwouldntknow: Correction. *you* don't shoot people over nonviolent crimes. People who don't want to wind up sharing a prison cell with other murderers don't. Wrong 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:37:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JosephTurrisi: The Sheriff Deputy that taught my NC CHP class said if you are involved in a shooting to make sure your story is the only one to be heard meaning that you shoot to kill. He also said other than making the statement that you were in fear for your life not to say anything with out your attorney present That makes sense in a world where there's no people, cell phones, or CCTV. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:39:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SquatchAv8: Everything is video recorded now. Very high probability that your fleeing the scene would drastically complicate things. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SquatchAv8: Originally Posted By W_E_G: This thread again. Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. Not if you happen to be eating in a taqueria when a "statistically more likely to commit crime" comes in lol |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:15:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Get on the phone and call Ayoob. Tell him you'll pay to have his toupee flown first class to your location.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 9:47:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cycletool: I have a customer that was represented by Kirk. He was the lawyer that was provided by the Concealed Carry Association type CCW insurance. The shooter was a bouncer at a bar in Spokane and was jumped by 3 guys he was escorting out. One pulled a knife and got himself vented. The bouncer had nothing but great things to say about Kirk. The WA legal system, not so much. He said without Kirk he would probably still be in jail. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:02:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg Just make sure they aren't somewhere that might be searched. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:12:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Make sure you've shot them dead. Immediately leave and seek medical attention. Don't tell anyone anything until you get a lawyer.
Am I doing this right? |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:29:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alwaysright: Came across this and thought it was interesting. Massad Ayoob Explains Why You Should Make A Brief Statement. https://youtube.com/shorts/kS0LDEUO0x4?si=99w1wX9JNkisA6-Y You should probably listen to a real lawyer instead of an out of touch former cop.  Lawyer Reviews Massad Ayoob's Advice On Talking To Police  Talk to Police? Or Don't Talk to Police? Marc J. Victor & Massad Ayoob Agree to Disagree |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:33:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: You don’t shoot people over non violent crimes. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:37:51 AM EDT
[#29]
I have grip tape on my pistols. After I dump a mag imma rip off a piece of tape and slap it over my mouth. GD approved tactic.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:24:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Local guy shot and killed sisters tweaker BF a few weeks ago. Arrested for murder and then released next day. DA public statement said that on the 911 call they could hear him directing other to "get towels and hold pressure" and to "get an ambulance here quick".
Said that was enough to show he wasn't trying to murder the dirtbag. Self defense, no charges. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:30:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: that's why we so NEED a sarcasm emoji The last line didn't do it for you? It certainly did for me. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:31:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli: CPR theater to pump the rest of the blood out of them. Good call. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli: Originally Posted By staringback05: If not in a riot area attempt to render some kind of aid...malice is a helluva thing to jurors 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:37:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: This thread again. Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: This thread again. Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. Consciousness of guilt is the inference that the defendant knows that he is guilty of a crime because he has taken one or more of the following actions after it. These actions include: Fleeing from the crime scene or jurisdiction, False alibies, Changing or altering personal appearance, Hiding or destroying evidence, Bribing a witness, Intimidating a witness or even killing a witness. In a criminal trial the District Attorney or prosecutor can show that this type of conduct was due to a defendant’s criminal conduct and it would have not occurred otherwise. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:18:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911.
The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:24:49 PM EDT
[#35]
I suppose urinating on the corpse would be frowned upon.
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:30:36 PM EDT
[#36]
I always liked Clint Smith's answer to that question:
If possible, call 911 before confronting the intruder. "There's someone in my house and I'm in fear for my life!" Then put down the phone without hanging up, so the dispatch call logs records you challenging the intruder. Once LE gets there; 1. "I was in fear for my life/my family's lives." 2. "I want him arrested", even if they're clearly dead (implies criminality on the part of the intruder) 3. Shut the fuck up |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:56:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NYresq1: This may be the stupidest advice I have ever read on this forum... And thats saying a lot... Leaving the scene of a car accident with injury is a felony in most states... Shoot and kill someone and leave?!?? Good luck with that... My old agency investigated a shooting at a shitty bar a few years ago. The dead guy (drunk as fuck) pulled a gun and pointed it at the shooter, who shot the dead guy in the forehead with a single round out of an LCR from about 15 feet (shooter was sober) and killed him DRT. The dead guy was a popular local and the bar patrons started getting really worked up and the shooter thought he was about to get worked over or worse, so he jumped on his bike and took off. He came back 15 minutes later and cooperated with the investigation once LE was on scene. He was never charged, despite what the locals and the dead guy's family wanted. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:39:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ajek: You should probably listen to a real lawyer instead of an out of touch former cop.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMgMBuC7A-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRryn3NjPmMQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ajek: Originally Posted By Alwaysright: Came across this and thought it was interesting. Massad Ayoob Explains Why You Should Make A Brief Statement. https://youtube.com/shorts/kS0LDEUO0x4?si=99w1wX9JNkisA6-Y You should probably listen to a real lawyer instead of an out of touch former cop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMgMBuC7A-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRryn3NjPmM Attached File |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:42:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli: Originally Posted By staringback05: If not in a riot area attempt to render some kind of aid...malice is a helluva thing to jurors It’s true |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:54:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EvanWilliams: Situation is flawed—“if he is down and not out” Make sure he is down AND out It may take quite some time to be certain there is no other threat and calm down enough to be able to call 9-1-1. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: W_E_G]
[#41]
OK, so stick around and wait for the intruder's buddies to show up and tune you up good.
Because home invaders always work solo and the cops will be there lickety split. Retreating to safety is for chumps. Be sure to stick around and dazzle the patrol cops with your legal knowledge. Just go hide behind a tree out in the alley and when the cops get there, wave them over. Maybe be sure your lawyer is on speaker-phone.  99% says anyone who sticks around for the cops also talks to the cops. But it sounds like y'all know how to handle this sort of thing. So have at it. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 4:53:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fadedsun]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Wrong https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/181959/IMG_3544-3169751.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Wrong https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/181959/IMG_3544-3169751.jpg Except for those pesky Penal code mentions such as Burglary, Arson, robbery, and aggravated robbery. Pled guilty, 8 years of probation for manslaughter over shooting a theif A ton of people have been arrested, charged, and convicted over shooting over property in Texas. The castle doctrine is pretty hard and fast and provides legal protection. Originally Posted By Pantexan: What about squatters ? Nothing changes. If people break into a house you live in it's not squatting, it's a home invasion and under Texas PC burglary and subsequently falls under the Castle Doctrine of Texas. If someone breaks into a vacant house you can still charge them with Criminal Trespass. Originally Posted By W_E_G: OK, so stick around and wait for the intruder's buddies to show up and tune you up good. Atleast be consistent. In one sentence you advocate fleeing and in another you are against retreating to safety. Originally Posted By W_E_G: Because home invaders always work solo and the cops will be there lickety split. You're advocating running away from your home? You're in your house. You're armed. You're awake and ready. Why give up the advantage and flee your home? Originally Posted By W_E_G: Retreating to safety is for chumps. Unless the bad guys friends are coming, right? Originally Posted By W_E_G: Be sure to stick around and dazzle the patrol cops with your legal knowledge. You don't have to recite the Penal code. Originally Posted By W_E_G: Just go hide behind a tree out in the alley and when the cops get there, wave them over. So retreat so safety and run away from your home? Originally Posted By W_E_G: Maybe be sure your lawyer is on speaker-phone. I don't know many lawyers who can be on the phone that quickly at odd hours of the night. Originally Posted By W_E_G: 99% says anyone who sticks around for the cops also talks to the cops. Yeah, because cops nowadays beat confessions out of people Originally Posted By W_E_G: But it sounds like y'all know how to handle this sort of thing. So have at it. We will be sure to run away to safety and not run away at the same time. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 4:56:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Thanks for posting
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Posted: 3/27/2024 5:08:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Silas: Thanks for posting
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:16:05 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Florida members: don't follow legal advice from a non-Florida lawyer. Instead figure out who is a knowledgeable self defense criminal attorney in your area or region. Schedule some time with that attorney to talk about do's and don't's based on his or her experience in Florida courtrooms with Florida law and SAOs near you. Maybe even offer to pay for 30 minutes or and hour for this conversation. Maybe cost you $150 or so for 30 minutes. You'll learn a lot more practical information than a video by an attorney who doesn't know what an information is or the various types of SYG defenses allowed by statute, case law, and the rules of criminal procedure. This is not meant to disparage what the video in the OP says. It's just not Florida law. That's your pro-bono minute. Well said. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:32:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Except for those pesky Penal code mentions such as Burglary, Arson, robbery, and aggravated robbery. Pled guilty, 8 years of probation for manslaughter over shooting a theif A ton of people have been arrested, charged, and convicted over shooting over property in Texas. The castle doctrine is pretty hard and fast and provides legal protection. Nothing changes. If people break into a house you live in it's not squatting, it's a home invasion and under Texas PC burglary and subsequently falls under the Castle Doctrine of Texas. If someone breaks into a vacant house you can still charge them with Criminal Trespass. Atleast be consistent. In one sentence you advocate fleeing and in another you are against retreating to safety. You're advocating running away from your home? You're in your house. You're armed. You're awake and ready. Why give up the advantage and flee your home? Unless the bad guys friends are coming, right? You don't have to recite the Penal code. So retreat so safety and run away from your home? I don't know many lawyers who can be on the phone that quickly at odd hours of the night. Yeah, because cops nowadays beat confessions out of people We will be sure to run away to safety and not run away at the same time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By iwouldntknow: Wrong https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/181959/IMG_3544-3169751.jpg Except for those pesky Penal code mentions such as Burglary, Arson, robbery, and aggravated robbery. Pled guilty, 8 years of probation for manslaughter over shooting a theif A ton of people have been arrested, charged, and convicted over shooting over property in Texas. The castle doctrine is pretty hard and fast and provides legal protection. Originally Posted By Pantexan: What about squatters ? Nothing changes. If people break into a house you live in it's not squatting, it's a home invasion and under Texas PC burglary and subsequently falls under the Castle Doctrine of Texas. If someone breaks into a vacant house you can still charge them with Criminal Trespass. Originally Posted By W_E_G: OK, so stick around and wait for the intruder's buddies to show up and tune you up good. Atleast be consistent. In one sentence you advocate fleeing and in another you are against retreating to safety. Originally Posted By W_E_G: Because home invaders always work solo and the cops will be there lickety split. You're advocating running away from your home? You're in your house. You're armed. You're awake and ready. Why give up the advantage and flee your home? Originally Posted By W_E_G: Retreating to safety is for chumps. Unless the bad guys friends are coming, right? Originally Posted By W_E_G: Be sure to stick around and dazzle the patrol cops with your legal knowledge. You don't have to recite the Penal code. Originally Posted By W_E_G: Just go hide behind a tree out in the alley and when the cops get there, wave them over. So retreat so safety and run away from your home? Originally Posted By W_E_G: Maybe be sure your lawyer is on speaker-phone. I don't know many lawyers who can be on the phone that quickly at odd hours of the night. Originally Posted By W_E_G: 99% says anyone who sticks around for the cops also talks to the cops. Yeah, because cops nowadays beat confessions out of people Originally Posted By W_E_G: But it sounds like y'all know how to handle this sort of thing. So have at it. We will be sure to run away to safety and not run away at the same time. Yep he's in prison with the other murderers.  Oh dang nevermind. At least this guy who chased down a car thief with his gun out at a mall then shot him is going to prison. And this guy who shot a thief then stood over him and put a bullet in his brain then fled the scene faced no charges. When analyzing situations, it's wise to consider your own blind spots. You've sworn your undying allegiance to the State, and we need people like you for some roles. We could not survive people like you in all roles. You do your job artistically well, as you should, but the State isn't the ultimate Right. The world will be less confusing if you're able to recognize that. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:37:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gotigers]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkStar: And don't forget: 1. Don't talk to the cops 2. See rule 1. 1. agreed 2. "I THINK I AM HAVING A HEART ATTACK". Leave in ambulance, talk to lawyer. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:59:47 AM EDT
[#48]
You call 911 “I had to defend myself, please send police and an ambulance. I am here *location”.”
Hang up When the police show up and before they come in, safe your weapon, put it down, put your hands up. “I am C, I called the police” *point at perp* “that was my attacker” *point at any visible evidence* “there is evidence” *point at any witnesses*(if applicable) “there are witnesses” “I will make no statement until I consult with a lawyer” If they try further “lawyer” over and over |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 11:16:27 AM EDT
[#49]
What do you do if the cops ask if you have any other firearms in the house?
I'm guessing that if the cops show up they will have a lawful reason to search your house for "witnesses or other involved persons." |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 11:25:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Reload.
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