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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:47:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Don't worry. I've been personally assured we will never need anything we gave away in Ukraine in a conflict against China. I think one of them tried to explain that if we were in a war with China, Russia would get involved anyway, so if we give everything away and weaken Russia now, it is a net benefit 
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:52:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By thor_ducati: Originally Posted By djkest: Originally Posted By thor_ducati: Found the problem. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67413/IMG_1344_jpeg-3165113.JPG Clearly the more inclusive radar will take way longer to be fabulous. That's not what "discrimination" means in a missile defense context. Most newer systems employ countermeasures, so your sensor / detection systems need to be able to discriminate between the decoys and the lethal object. https://media1.giphy.com/media/xT9IgHCTfp8CRshfQk/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952t1023akq55ztry76nemn562uhqikz0bl7fmuntok&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g It's big too. Like Aegis ashore  https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/long-range-discrimination-radar.html |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:10:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By steve_n_houston: Why can't we be ready sooner? Rainbow flags on backorder? Originally Posted By webtaz99: If they go any faster they'll tip the island over! |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:16:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Wouldn’t it be easier to park some Destroyers around the island at the four corners while you wait.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:24:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: destaccado]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. Why would we be enraged? The American populace should be enraged that people without a clue continually chime in on topics they know next to nothing about yet since it's the majority of the populace; I guess they can't be. China has a large surplus male population until roughly 2030. China wants Taiwan. China is rapidly building every type of ship they need to take Taiwan and every missile to make our Navy irrelevant near their borders at an extremely rapid pace. Maybe you can explain what they're doing that for to the rest of us? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:40:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Don't worry. I've been personally assured we will never need anything we gave away in Ukraine in a conflict against China. That was all just garbage we were going to have to pay to get rid of anyway. We actually saved a ton of money. Also, it was all made to kill Russians and nothing but Russians. It wouldn't have worked on the Chinese. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:47:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Maybe spend less time on DEI indoctrination and more on military stuff?
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:52:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Meanwhile the USCG is pulling defensive weapons systems off of some vessels and then moving them to the pacific.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:55:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: I think this is more budget posturing then anything. The solution has changed a bit too. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/10/missile-defense-agency-provides-new-details-on-defense-of-guam/ https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47643 THAAD and patriot is already there. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/466723/thaad-battery-guam-successfully-completes-table-viii-evaluatio https://www.defensenews.com/smr/defending-the-pacific/2023/03/17/first-wave-of-tech-to-defend-guam-from-newer-threats-due-in-2024/ Not sure what the timing is for getting more batteries and LTAMDS in though. Bring back the Sprint |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:00:59 PM EDT
[#10]
when is the war scheduled to start? I didn't get the memo....
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:05:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: I suspect for reasons he does not tip. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Originally Posted By bayouhazard: They should ask Hank Johnson for some tips. I suspect for reasons he does not tip. Oh , he tips. It's GUAM that doesn't tip. And since the AF was kind enough to give EVERYBODY an idea of how long it MIGHT take......... remember, the Chinese are pretty much ready NOW. Even if they don't have EVERYTHING ready, they have enough raw manpower to throw in the mix at ANY time that things will be ugly..... |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:06:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By webtaz99: If they go any faster they'll tip the island over! Came to post this. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:06:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: when is the war scheduled to start? I didn't get the memo.... Going by PACOM - May 2027 |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:10:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: The fact that the arms industries havent been ramped up to a war time footing starting in Feb 2022 is simply idiotic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: The fact that the arms industries havent been ramped up to a war time footing starting in Feb 2022 is simply idiotic. I was just at my LGS today, no LR primers and no idea when they might come in. Also, he said they've been told by pretty much everybody no new orders for the foreseeable future. I woudn't call it ramping up, but somebodies buying lots of ammo. On the lighter side, if whoever traded in their Gen 1 M&P Shield with F/O sights is on here, thank you. $199 OTD wasn't even a decision.  |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:38:38 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:18:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: I suspect this is true. Every move Biden has made since being installed in the Whitehouse has been to weaken America. I think he is positioning us to be engaged in a couple wars simultaneously, and get our asses handed to us. I would bet the Pentagon is 100% behind the plan, as is the CIA and FBI. Not one American general officer resigned in protest after the cluster fuck that was the afghan withdrawal. That tells me everything I need to know. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By Southernman077: Losing is all part of the plan. I suspect this is true. Every move Biden has made since being installed in the Whitehouse has been to weaken America. I think he is positioning us to be engaged in a couple wars simultaneously, and get our asses handed to us. I would bet the Pentagon is 100% behind the plan, as is the CIA and FBI. Not one American general officer resigned in protest after the cluster fuck that was the afghan withdrawal. That tells me everything I need to know.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:24:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Do we need to tell China to step up the delivery of the electronic parts we need? We better order more rare earths too.
Is China obligated to supply parts and materials after the war starts? I hope so! |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:46:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Oh please, it's frikken island 2000 miles away from China. Put a few missile boats
closer to China and shoot down anything they might send. Just have worry about subs. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:44:46 PM EDT
[#19]
There isn't going to be a war with China over Taiwan.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:45:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rubik: There isn't going to be a war with China over Taiwan. That's not something anyone can predict with any degree of certainty. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:52:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. Why? China is discussing war with us as a forgone conclusion, and they give fuck-all what the American populace thinks about it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:59:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Don't worry. I've been personally assured we will never need anything we gave away in Ukraine in a conflict against China. The difference between what we had and what we gave to Ukraine won’t budge the needle in a war with China. Only being grown up adults and making more will do that. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:59:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwr6: Why? China is discussing war with us as a forgone conclusion, and they give fuck-all what the American populace thinks about it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwr6: Originally Posted By DC2FA5: The fact that the politicians and brass discuss war with China as a foregone conclusion should enrage the American populace. Why? China is discussing war with us as a forgone conclusion, and they give fuck-all what the American populace thinks about it. Taiwan actually does belong to China. Of course they talk about war because they are willing to go to war over it. We aren't, don't, and shouldn't. We just need to build our own chip manufacturing, stop buying shit from China, and mind our own business. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:07:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rubik: Taiwan actually does belong to China. Of course they talk about war because they are willing to go to war over it. We aren't, don't, and shouldn't. We just need to build our own chip manufacturing, stop buying shit from China, and mind our own business. Build our own?  
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:08:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rubik: Taiwan actually does belong to China. Of course they talk about war because they are willing to go to war over it. We aren't, don't, and shouldn't. We just need to build our own chip manufacturing, stop buying shit from China, and mind our own business. The Dutch and Spanish have older claims to Formosa than the Chinese. The Chinese communists have no claim at all, beyond their insistence that all places inhabited by Han belong to them. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:32:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The difference between what we had and what we gave to Ukraine won’t budge the needle in a war with China. Only being grown up adults and making more will do that. Well, we got what we got from now until the several years it takes for that to happen. Step one at that point is to stop throwing critical requirements into a never ending bonfire which was created, by design, to burn those exact resources. There is also a large leap from deterrence to war, the first of which we can affect with what we have. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:39:30 PM EDT
[#27]
The fact that the political class isn’t taking this seriously and going back to 5% on defense is all you need to know.
When push comes to shove Biden is likely to withdraw without fighting. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:04:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: daemon734]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The fact that the political class isn’t taking this seriously and going back to 5% on defense is all you need to know. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The fact that the political class isn’t taking this seriously and going back to 5% on defense is all you need to know. That's extremely easy to fall back on when you will never be the person assuming risk. Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: When push comes to shove Biden is likely to withdraw without fighting. So it's not a huge leap to withdraw right now then. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:59:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: Want to know a little secret to winning a war with China, tell your wife to quit shopping at Costco, Walmart and Target. The libbys on the label is not made or grown in China. Plenty to buy at wally world not made in China. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:01:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: I suspect this is true. Every move Biden has made since being installed in the Whitehouse has been to weaken America. I think he is positioning us to be engaged in a couple wars simultaneously, and get our asses handed to us. I would bet the Pentagon is 100% behind the plan, as is the CIA and FBI. Not one American general officer resigned in protest after the cluster fuck that was the afghan withdrawal. That tells me everything I need to know. All the ones with integrity were drummed out. It sucks I can't argue against any of your points. I hate that it's all correct. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:43:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: That's extremely easy to fall back on when you will never be the person assuming risk. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: That's extremely easy to fall back on when you will never be the person assuming risk. You’re looking at it from the bottom up and I’m looking at it from the top down. So it's not a huge leap to withdraw right now then. If that happens it’s the end of the United States as a superpower. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:46:08 PM EDT
[#32]
LOL that's code for we want more money!
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:48:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Basqueguy545: LOL that's code for we want more money! Well, the military is drastically underfunded right now. Not that they don’t waste a lot of what they get. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:48:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steve_n_houston: Why can't we be ready sooner? Rainbow flags on backorder? Gender "affirmative" care simply has to take the highest priority 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:50:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Biden +3% 2024 DOD budget is now down to 0% and 2025 was supposed to be +1% neither the 2024 or 2025 would cover inflation but now due to continual CRs the budget for not all but many of the programs is falling into the negative, if Congress even comes to a vote to pass tomorrow, which it may not. Defense companies probably see the tea leaves as not warranting doing more than minimums until the wind changes which for the purposes of this article means a day late and a dollar short. These platforms and systems - F35s, aircraft carrier, nuke subs, air defense are pricey and complicated with lots of delays even know Biden White House is rolling submarine building down to 1 and giving up on bothering to stick to 2 at a time the Navy's attack subs are dropping down to 48 instead of the 62 requirement so the Aussies are having a panic attack |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:59:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BayEagle: Hey be reasonable. Those DEI consultants are expensive. Hollywood, academia, corporate America - sweet gigs ensuring “equity” everyone talking military industrial complex - how bout that DEI grift $ |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:01:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Well, the military is drastically underfunded right now. Not that they don’t waste a lot of what they get. Perfect storm - underfunded while having an inability to pass audits for the money they do get, little of which goes towards private snuffy |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:01:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By webtaz99: If they go any faster they'll tip the island over! The fact that guy is still a politician tells you everything about the state of our country. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:02:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: You’re looking at it from the bottom up and I’m looking at it from the top down. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: You’re looking at it from the bottom up and I’m looking at it from the top down. You're looking at it as someone who doesn't understand that this conflict is going to happen and we are absolutely going to be unprepared. You seem to think that our unpreparedness is somehow indicative of the enemy's intent. Being that you have zero actual personal risk tied in here you are willing to assume that risk on behalf of those that do, by giving away large amounts of critical resources that will be needed. The fact that you think being able to point fingers, assign blame, and say "I told you so" does not change the situation from what it is inevitably going to be. Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If that happens it’s the end of the United States as a superpower. Withdrawing from Ukraine proxy support? Nah. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:05:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ryan_Scott]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: You're looking at it as someone who doesn't understand that this conflict is going to happen and we are absolutely going to be unprepared. You seem to think that our unpreparedness is somehow indicative of the enemy's intent. Being that you have zero actual personal risk tied in here you are willing to assume that risk on behalf of those that do, by giving away large amounts of critical resources that will be needed. The fact that you think being able to point fingers, assign blame, and say "I told you so" does not change the situation from what it is inevitably going to be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: You're looking at it as someone who doesn't understand that this conflict is going to happen and we are absolutely going to be unprepared. You seem to think that our unpreparedness is somehow indicative of the enemy's intent. Being that you have zero actual personal risk tied in here you are willing to assume that risk on behalf of those that do, by giving away large amounts of critical resources that will be needed. The fact that you think being able to point fingers, assign blame, and say "I told you so" does not change the situation from what it is inevitably going to be. I’m telling you to be realistic and understand that what’s been given isn’t enough to change the course of a war with China. If you can’t do it now you couldn’t do it then. Which is why the solution isn’t to hoard what you’ve got it’s to build more. It’s too late of course. I’m sorry for how you’ll suffer for leaderships failures. Withdrawing from Ukraine proxy support? Nah. Taiwan. I was talking about Taiwan. Korea will fold, the Aussies will get spooked and Japan will build The Bomb. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:48:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I’m telling you to be realistic and understand that what’s been given isn’t enough to change the course of a war with China. If you can’t do it now you couldn’t do it then. Which is why the solution isn’t to hoard what you’ve got it’s to build more. It’s too late of course. I’m sorry for how you’ll suffer for leaderships failures. Ah, so you acknowledge it's too late to fix some very specific problems, so the answer is to make the problems much worse. Thanks for your insight as usual. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:01:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Well, the military is drastically underfunded right now. Not that they don’t waste a lot of what they get. Don't we spend more than the rest of the world combined? Read that on the internet. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:04:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Need more betel nut to get the job done.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:05:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Don't we spend more than the rest of the world combined? Read that on the internet. PACOM commander says nope. Since our military enemies don’t share their accounting info it’s all guess work what they spend |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:06:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Ah, so you acknowledge it's too late to fix some very specific problems, so the answer is to make the problems much worse. Thanks for your insight as usual. The solution is to make a plan that involves the Army less. Since we don’t have enough Navy to support the Army there anyway. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:06:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Don't we spend more than the rest of the world combined? Read that on the internet. If you account for hidden money and differentials in purchasing power China alone is close to us. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:11:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The solution is to make a plan that involves the Army less. Since we don’t have enough Navy to support the Army there anyway. Oddly enough, the people that do this for a living disagree. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:20:58 PM EDT
[#48]
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:39:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Oddly enough, the people that do this for a living disagree. Depends on what you mean by "do this for a living." Given that Congress has slashed the Army's budget and increased those of the other services, I would think that it's pretty clear what the people who do this for a living are up to. |
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