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Posted: 3/18/2024 2:14:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By curiomatic: You should establish your accuracy baseline with good factory ammo and work from there. When I shot matches with my 1911 where brass retrieval wasn't possible, I used Blazer aluminum case 45 ACP ammo, which worked well in my Colt Series 70. If your Glock doesn't shoot well with three or four brands of factory ammo, call Glock. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By curiomatic: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By curiomatic: If you want to know your Glock's chamber dimensions, you'll have to make a chamber casting with Cerrosafe or some similar product. Brownell's sells it. Glocks are built more for reliability than match accuracy. I'd be okay with a "loose" chamber if a bear was charging me. Maybe try a Gen5, G20 with the new and improved barrel? Was going to order cerrosafe but wanted to wait for the KKM barrel. Only Gen 3 Glocks are allowed in California unless I’m a LEO (which I’m not) I agree on loose chambers and reliability but after shooting great groups with pistols for years, I cannot accept 8” at 12 yards and no group whatso ever. Rounds land high, low, left, right and everything in between. You should establish your accuracy baseline with good factory ammo and work from there. When I shot matches with my 1911 where brass retrieval wasn't possible, I used Blazer aluminum case 45 ACP ammo, which worked well in my Colt Series 70. If your Glock doesn't shoot well with three or four brands of factory ammo, call Glock. This sounds like the best answer. Do you know any true velocity 10mm ammo other than Buffalo bore? I know guns like different brands but any Glock 10mm owners chime in what ammo has worked well for them? 180gr like someone said as it has a large bearing surface. XTPs have shot well out of my Glocks, 1911, and CZ 75. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 2:16:43 AM EDT
[#2]
The problem is you OP. Your guns are fine.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 2:17:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By merick: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/giphy__3_-1051.gif If you wanted an accurate pistol why did you buy a subcompact 10mm glock? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By merick: Originally Posted By rabidus: Thanks! I normally don’t wear velvet gloves and use a magnifying glass to look for issues but “Only accurate rifles are interesting.” -Townsend Whelen I also apply that quote to pistols. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/giphy__3_-1051.gif If you wanted an accurate pistol why did you buy a subcompact 10mm glock? There is no reason why a mass produced pistol cannot get 2” groups or better at 12 flipping yards. That’s the fun in reloading. find the right bullet, COL, powder, primer and casing to take that 2” and tighten it into 1” or more. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 2:23:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By billygoat69: Or you could try factory ammo like a bunch have suggested instead of refusing to acknowledge that your ammo is most likely the issue. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By billygoat69: Originally Posted By rabidus: Is the chamber the result of the poor groups? Never had this poor groupings before out of any pistol I shot. That’s why I’m on here. The loose chamber is the only thing I can think of. It could be me. Sure. I don’t think it is. I’m on here for any possible answers to the groupings other than me. This is a gun forum. You post something you think is not right and try to get more answers. Instead it turned into a pissing match that I can’t shoot. Dog pile even. Or you could try factory ammo like a bunch have suggested instead of refusing to acknowledge that your ammo is most likely the issue. It very well may be. Small sample size but in 20 years of reloading I never had groups this bad for a pistol. My G19s can get great groups with cast 120gr, Winchester 115gr FMJ, RMR 124gr, 147gr FMJ etc… Both of them. Made years apart. That’s what threw me for a loop in creating this thread. Until now, never had this poor groupings using reloads, using 2 different bullet weights/types. Yes, I will buy some 10mm ammo and reaccess. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 2:27:10 AM EDT
[#5]
IMO, the biggest detriment to Glock accuracy is the overtravel on a factory trigger.
That's especially noticeable on a smaller framed model. Try throwing an Apex in it and see what happens. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:34:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Phil_Billy]
[#6]
Originally Posted By rabidus: I’m a glutton for punishment from gun manufactures. This is the 3rd pistol in 3 years (twice from Colt, now this Glock) that will have to go back to the manufacture, bought new. Groupings were 8” @ 12 yards using 135gr Nosler and 200gr Montana Bullet Works. Moved COL out, in, tried the full powder charge as recommended by Hodgdon. All were absolute crap groups. Also tried different charges using different COLs. SAAMI: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0042_jpeg-3162198.JPG Glock Perfection.  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0043_jpeg-3162199.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0039_jpeg-3162200.JPG As others have said and as a former machinist I strongly doubt those venier calipers are giving you an accurate measurement. If you were using ball gauges and a micrometer and getting those readings I would be concerned. Have you tried shooting factory ammo? I've owned over a dozen Glocks and currently have 8 right now. The closest thing I ever came to an issue was the wrong pins installed for the trigger group causing them to walk out under prolonged firing. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:34:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Did Glock lose a customer?
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:04:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tct1000: this is pure gold.  and not in the good way that you'll take italso OP:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ7ed_ODHNkThat will for sure be a new copy paste in the future. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:06:20 AM EDT
[#9]
does op have any pistols he shoots well?
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:25:57 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: I would try the gun with factory ammo before sending it back. A box of CCI or Blazer brass. Yep. Eliminate any variables. Definitely try a box of good self defense ammo also. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:30:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Well, it’s too late to have Gaston call you, so your only remaining option is to cut it up with a bandsaw.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:04:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: This sounds like the best answer. Do you know any true velocity 10mm ammo other than Buffalo bore? I know guns like different brands but any Glock 10mm owners chime in what ammo has worked well for them? 180gr like someone said as it has a large bearing surface. XTPs have shot well out of my Glocks, 1911, and CZ 75. Glock uses a lot of CCI ammo for testing pistols. Yet you seem focused on loading the hottest ammo possible . Rarely is the hottest ammo the most accurate ammo. A barrel is not going to change much other than the fact that Glock does not recommend cast bullets in older generations. Is the barrel leaded ? Have you cleaned the gun ? |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:04:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: shotar]
[#13]
Glock 10mm barrels are notably inaccurate. That's why you see a heavy aftermarket presence from kkm and lone wolf. Nit sure about Gen 5. They might be better as they certainly were a great improvement in everything else.
A number of prominent guntubers have noted this. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 7:07:44 AM EDT
[#14]
My G20 Gen4…the chambered round def moves in the barrel. I can hear it. I’ve confirmed this in a few ways and it bothered the shit out of me for months. Luckily I have two friends with Glock 20s and I literally tried every combination of my extractor, springs, my barrel, their slide…you name it. I even tried a KKM barrel. Still did it. I eventually narrowed it down to my slide . Literally if I tap the right side of the side it’ll be quiet. Tap the left side and shake it, bullet rattles. I can even do this with a chambered slide while the slide is not even on the frame, but everything else in place…barrel, recoil spring etc. stick a pencil eraser side in the barrel, and it’ll stay quiet. I duplicated this in their slides too but not as much as mine does.
It is definitely something to do with the way the extractor is grabbing the rim of the cartridge. I’ve tried 4 extractors, they all do it…different extractor plungers…you name it, I’ve tried it. Something to do with my particular slide, maybe the cutout slot for the extractor idk. I ended up sending it to Glock, they didn’t say much really. Shoots fine. Seems accurate enough although I’m not a great shooter. I stopped caring about it. 
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Posted: 3/18/2024 7:20:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Send it back so they can laugh at you |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 7:43:50 AM EDT
[#16]
I've had a Glock 20 for more than a year and never shot it, I just never got around to it. I shot it yesterday and it's way more accurate than I am. But I put a KKM barrel in it. Now I want to try the factory barrel and compare.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:10:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gunnie357]
[#17]
I measured my Gen 3 G29 this morning before I left the house. I got with lyman calipers between .432-.434, depending on the depth and placement of the caliper jaw. It shoots far better than 8" at 12 yards.
That leads me to believe one of two issues: Ammunition—you said they are reloads, and you can't test them in any other gun. Issues could include too much crimp, casing too short, powder charge the gun doesn't like, bullet weight it doesn't like, under or oversized in the case of the lead bullet, and too short of OAL for the particular gun. Remedy- try factory ammunition. Mine likes Hornady Custom and Critical Duty Shooter- not going through possibilities, but if you shoot as well as you say, see the above issue; if you don't, see the below remedy. Remedy- If you dont shoot as well as you say let someone else shoot it with factory ammo, Shoot better. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:13:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Also, what you're posting are the cartridge specs not the chamber. That. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:14:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: diesel1]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. And this from another post: "Glock 10mm barrels are notably inaccurate." |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:21:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: You guys are insufferable. I'm betting it's probably a bad reload. Maybe polygonal rifling isn't agreeing with the bullets your using. I also don't think the chamber dimensions are really helpful or an issue. That said, the participants of GD dont realize it, but GD actually exists as a kind of quarentine for retards to keep them out of tech. Just post in tech next time lol. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:22:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. One would use an ID micrometer. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:24:11 AM EDT
[#22]
You're shooting reloads Bro, you lost this one. Glock explicitly tells you NOT to shoot reloaded ammo in any of their pistols! To boot, you're shooting perhaps the WORST pistol cartridge ever developed! It's inherently inaccurate, has no redeeming qualities. Buy a G21 if you want a big Glock.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:31:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sb67: You're shooting reloads Bro, you lost this one. Glock explicitly tells you NOT to shoot reloaded ammo in any of their pistols! To boot, you're shooting perhaps the WORST pistol cartridge ever developed! It's inherently inaccurate, has no redeeming qualities. Buy a G21 if you want a big Glock. Hating on 10MM here is a bold strategy, at least some of the flack will be taken off OP |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:36:09 AM EDT
[#24]
I would do as others have suggested any put a few boxes of factory ammo thru it. I have a Gen3 as well (20SF) and had two other builds prior. I’ve used PMC 180gr FMJ , which is basically 40 S&W velocity in a longer case and Underwood 200 and 135gr JHP and all function well and are accurate. There are simply to many variables when you’re basing your conclusions on reloads of a round you have no other firearm to compare results against. Regardless of what you perceive the chamber issues to be you have insufficient evidence to draw any conclusions. Is the hassle of ammo purchases why you avoided just buying some factory ammo to test with? If you’ve owned a 45-70 and just bought a 10mm but are concerned about the cost of ammo it seems a bit odd. As one who owns both and doesn’t reload I have little sympathy for folks that complain about the price of ammunition. Nothing personal just a statement. Hopefully the results will be satisfactory, and welcome to the 10mm owners society.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:36:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Reloading books are written with different loadings to try. They are not perfect for every gun in that caliber.
You should know this if you have been reloading for 20 years. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:37:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: GD, “Your groups suck because you cannot shoot!” “That’s rifle, where are your pistol scores?” “Some people should not own guns” “In all my years of teaching new shooters, it’s not the gun, it’s you.” “It’s the Indian, not the arrow” I then defend myself that I can shoot using real life examples. GD OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. You guys are insufferable. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By SemperGumbi: Originally Posted By rabidus: Never got an award for pistol. I was at MCRD or Pendleton back in ‘08 for an educator workshop. Got to shoot the simulator. It was fun, for the pistol range, one of the Marines asked if I needed a tutorial, told him, “thanks but I got it..” Started shooting, all shots were hitting COM and head shots. Ran 2-3 mags through it and the room got quieter, heads started to turn over, granted, these are teachers so not much to talk about. Got done. Stopped for a second, looked around and the entire room was watching me. A major and a colonel were watching and smiled. 2 young Marines pushed some teachers aside and said, we got this…they shot 1/2 a mag, shot like shit, and moved away from the line. A few people in the room said, “Damn” As I passed the officers, the Major gave me a nod. I don’t shoot competition, I’m sure many can beat me but at the range, I only met 1 other person who could outshoot me with a pistol, he won awards in the Army pistol competition. So I’m no Jerry Miculek by any stretch but I’m also not a slack jawed basement dweller. OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile.  GD, “Your groups suck because you cannot shoot!” “That’s rifle, where are your pistol scores?” “Some people should not own guns” “In all my years of teaching new shooters, it’s not the gun, it’s you.” “It’s the Indian, not the arrow” I then defend myself that I can shoot using real life examples. GD OMG it is sad that you would write something like this about yourself. You need to get out of your own head once in awhile. You guys are insufferable. Lol, you defend yourself with a made up story |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:44:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zephyr: It's a $30 caliper. Used incorrectly for this measurement. A chamber drawing is probably shown nearby to allow comparison to the cartridge dimensions. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:45:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Lol, you defend yourself with a made up story Even if it’s real… A guy in the Army outshot a bunch of shitty shooters, not really a brag. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:47:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Nick_Adams]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: I would try the gun with factory ammo before sending it back. A box of CCI or Blazer brass. Or try shooting some real 10mm factory ammo, like UW’s ‘Range Supply’ 10mm 180grn FMJ @ 1250+fps. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022571423?pid=297178 |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:48:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. Uh….  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:50:28 AM EDT
[#31]
135 is on the light end of the loadings . I would try 165-180.
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:52:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Nick_Adams]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: This sounds like the best answer. Do you know any true velocity 10mm ammo other than Buffalo bore? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By curiomatic: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By curiomatic: If you want to know your Glock's chamber dimensions, you'll have to make a chamber casting with Cerrosafe or some similar product. Brownell's sells it. Glocks are built more for reliability than match accuracy. I'd be okay with a "loose" chamber if a bear was charging me. Maybe try a Gen5, G20 with the new and improved barrel? Was going to order cerrosafe but wanted to wait for the KKM barrel. Only Gen 3 Glocks are allowed in California unless I’m a LEO (which I’m not) I agree on loose chambers and reliability but after shooting great groups with pistols for years, I cannot accept 8” at 12 yards and no group whatso ever. Rounds land high, low, left, right and everything in between. You should establish your accuracy baseline with good factory ammo and work from there. When I shot matches with my 1911 where brass retrieval wasn't possible, I used Blazer aluminum case 45 ACP ammo, which worked well in my Colt Series 70. If your Glock doesn't shoot well with three or four brands of factory ammo, call Glock. This sounds like the best answer. Do you know any true velocity 10mm ammo other than Buffalo bore? Double Tap and Underwood for sure. Among ‘mainstream’ ammo-makers, Federal and Winchester are offering a couple of ‘heavy-n-fast’ 10mm loads. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022393638?pid=135158 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021558987?pid=674839 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026114215?pid=932299 The best answer is, get set up to reload if you really want to see what the cartridge can do. If you don’t reload, well, poors don’t do well in real 10mm-Landia. You gots to pay to play there. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:52:31 AM EDT
[#33]
This thread is lesser for not having Robert Redford as Jeremiah Johnson available in the image library.
Thanks Subnet! 
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:53:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Sell and buy magnum revolver
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:54:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: intheburbs]
[#35]
I hate customers like OP. Using your shitty-ass HF calipers to measure, claiming it's out of spec. Pray tell, how does a precision-machined piece get allegedly out of round by two thou?Also, I'm pretty sure accuracy isn't a warranty issue.
Not even using factory ammo as a baseline? And it's happened three times? Twice with Colt? If I was Glock, I'd take back the pistol, issue a refund, and send OP over to HK or Sig. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:56:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slappomatt: I mean its a pocket 10mm glock. what did you expect? sub moa? 8” at 12 yards is terrible for most any firearm. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:56:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Gun prints 8” at 12 yards.
GD: “Lol OP suxorz, git gud scrub!” Typical. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:00:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex: 8” at 12 yards is terrible for most any firearm. Highly doubt there’s a factory Glock in existence that actually groups that bad. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:01:24 AM EDT
[#39]
There's always KKM
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:05:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc: There's always KKM. Or a Bar-Sto for an oversized tube that will need to be fitted. Not a “drop-in,” but it will have a nice tight chamber. I picked up a stock length Bar-Sto barrel for my G29 years ago, and my ‘smith fitted it perfectly. I use it when shooting max handloads, but it would serve just as well for EDC. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:16:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver: I'm betting it's probably a bad reload. Maybe polygonal rifling isn't agreeing with the bullets your using. I also don't think the chamber dimensions are really helpful or an issue. That said, the participants of GD dont realize it, but GD actually exists as a kind of quarentine for retards to keep them out of tech. Just post in tech next time lol. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver: Originally Posted By rabidus: You guys are insufferable. I'm betting it's probably a bad reload. Maybe polygonal rifling isn't agreeing with the bullets your using. I also don't think the chamber dimensions are really helpful or an issue. That said, the participants of GD dont realize it, but GD actually exists as a kind of quarentine for retards to keep them out of tech. Just post in tech next time lol. Truer words have never been spoken. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:19:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By GreatWaputi: Not everyone should own guns https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0110_jpeg-3162257.JPG Lmao. Did you seriously post a picture of your Appleseed target? That stuff is for kids to learn how to shoot. Getting rifleman rank at Appleseed is extremely easy. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:21:47 AM EDT
[#43]
My Glock 26 is less accurate than my SIG P210-2. I demand my money back because it's such a lemon.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:22:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Just wanted to say that you can't accurately measure ID of something with a caliper.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:22:44 AM EDT
[#45]
I’m not a reloader or a sme, but I found this. It seems to imply a .003” difference between the cartridge od and the chamber id.
 Attached File |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:24:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: Double Tap and Underwood for sure. Among ‘mainstream’ ammo-makers, Federal and Winchester are offering a couple of ‘heavy-n-fast’ 10mm loads. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022393638?pid=135158 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021558987?pid=674839 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026114215?pid=932299 The best answer is, get set up to reload if you really want to see what the cartridge. If you don’t reload, well, poors don’t do well in real 10mm-Landia. You gots to pay to play there. IIRC, Paul Harrell got at (or near) original spec velocities from Sig Elite 10mm ammo, as well. But been a while since I watched that video. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:25:12 AM EDT
[#47]
I would absolutely get them to get that black smudge off of my barrel.
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USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:26:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Not flinching. Shoot 12ga slugs, 338LM, 45-70, full power 45 ACP+p no problemo. You didn't answer the question on how factory ammo shoots. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:32:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Accurate enough. And please explain how one would use a micrometer to measure an inside diameter. As others have said, as slight variation in chamber size should not affect accuracy. I'd be more concerned about bore dimensions. Good suggestions re factory ammo. And this from another post: "Glock 10mm barrels are notably inaccurate." for the non poors  Attached File |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:36:17 AM EDT
[#50]
It's Monday now. Don't know how it works in Commiefornia, but you should probably head to a gun store when they open and buy a box of factory 10mm ammo and see if the Glock likes it.
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