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Posted: 3/20/2024 1:02:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: That's a Garmin GNS-480. Thanks. I thought it looked pretty Garmin-ish. Kinda like my 430W just missing some buttons 
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:46:10 AM EDT
[#2]
OP you're moving along nicely. I myself could never trust my life to something like this that I built.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:18:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: clayvt]
[#3]
Spent the last day or so cleaning up and prepping the edges of the vertical stabilizer.
Went to harbor fright yesterday to get the spray gun and a few accessories to set up a filter/dryer for my compressor. HF had 2 filter systems. One was $69 and one $99. I was going to get the $69 because obviously it’s cheaper. But when I went they were out of the $69 one so I said screw it and got the $99 one. Thinking the only reason the $99 one was more because it came with a regulator and gauge. Well, I get home crack it open and realize it’s not a filter/drier. It’s a filter/lubricator…the exact opposite of what I need. Hopefully HF will take it back with torn apart packaging. So today it’s off to a different one which says they have the drier in stock plus the HF “3M” paint cup system in stock as well. Mine did not have them either. Picked up some pvc to make a rudimentary collapsible part stand so I’ll get that built today as well. Then I guess it’s onto prepping some scrap material and try my hand at spraying some primer! I picked up Stewart suystems ekoetch for the cleaner/etcher. A lot of folks have also suggested using bon ami cleaner as well before the eko etch so I’ll try and find some of that. Comet and Ajax are out since they contain bleach. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:37:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Spent the last day or so cleaning up and prepping the edges of the vertical stabilizer. Went to harbor fright yesterday to get the spray gun and a few accessories to set up a filter/dryer for my compressor. HF had 2 filter systems. One was $69 and one $99. I was going to get the $69 because obviously it's cheaper. But when I went they were out of the $69 one so I said screw it and got the $99 one. Thinking the only reason the $99 one was more because it came with a regulator and gauge. Well, I get home crack it open and realize it's not a filter/drier. It's a filter/lubricator the exact opposite of what I need. Hopefully HF will take it back with torn apart packaging. So today it's off to a different one which says they have the drier in stock plus the HF "3M" paint cup system in stock as well. Mine did not have them either. Picked up some pvc to make a rudimentary collapsible part stand so I'll get that built today as well. Then I guess it's onto prepping some scrap material and try my hand at spraying some primer! I picked up Stewart suystems ekoetch for the cleaner/etcher. A lot of folks have also suggested using bon ami cleaner as well before the eko etch so I'll try and find some of that. Comet and Ajax are out since they contain bleach. I used Alumiprep-33 on all of my parts before I alodined or primed them. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 1:02:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: I used Alumiprep-33 on all of my parts before I alodined or primed them. Etch cleaner for aluminum is getting to be a pain to find. The good stuff that I used to buy has gone away. Sometimes you find PPG dx533 or Axalta 13204S. A good alternative is Metaflex SP1050 from Akzonobel. It's water based work very well. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:29:37 PM EDT
[#6]
First test pieces with the primer. It’s a piece of a practice kit the guy I bought the tools from threw in. It was incomplete so I got some scrap.
Anyways, I spent most of today setting up the air system and had to wait for ups to drop off some high flow adapters since all of my local stores were out. And places wonder why folks turn to Amazon… Had the gun set at about 25psi and it was a decent pattern once I remembered the gun has a side fan control. Couldn’t figure out why it was just spraying a dot for a little bit. The little piece was dry to the touch in about 5 min but light in a few spots. I’m using the bigger piece for 2 experiments. The first is to see the difference between just straight ekoetch on one half and ekoetch plus a scuffing on the other. Then the second is I’m timing cure time and will start dimpling every few hours to see how long it needs to cure in my environment before I can start dimpling and not ruin the primer. This stuff stinks way less than even regular ole spray paint! I think just a filtered fan to blow out the dust will be sufficient. I’m still going to wear a respirator though.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:07:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Yes, please wear a respirator. Even though it doesn’t stink as much, it still is not good for you. Maybe even a little worse.
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Posted: 3/22/2024 3:25:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jodan1776]
[#8]
I used NAPA self-etching primer for all priming and to this day I use SEM Sem-Solv 38373 as final cleaning before priming anything. Both work great.
clean prime IME, unless you're priming a bunch of stuff at once, all the pre-setup and post-cleaning of the gun isn't worth the effort, so I mostly use rattle cans for small jobs. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 11:40:58 AM EDT
[#9]
When wiping a surface to clean, start with a clean wiper and solvent of choice, then drag the wiper across the surface in one direction, then discard.
Wiping back and forth or in circles redistributes contamination. Naturally that can be violated in a filthy surface, followed by the final wipe. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 11:54:15 AM EDT
[#10]
What kind of primer are you spraying?
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:20:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: What kind of primer are you spraying? Stewart systems Ekoprime |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:36:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Stewart systems Ekoprime Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Originally Posted By UV18: What kind of primer are you spraying? Stewart systems Ekoprime how that compares to alodine? |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:40:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midcap: how that compares to alodine? Alodine is a chemical coating that goes onto the metal and is a very thin layer. You look at it funny and corrosion will eat it. I have never seen their white paint line and was wondering what it was. The only white primer I have been using is a weird Navy mil-spec one that has been super durable on the floatplane but it is thick and overkill for normal application. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:56:20 PM EDT
[#14]
 John Hartford Tony Rice Vassar Clements "Steam Powered Aereoplane" |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 1:11:19 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 3/22/2024 1:52:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Alodine is a chemical coating that goes onto the metal and is a very thin layer. You look at it funny and corrosion will eat it. I have never seen their white paint line and was wondering what it was. The only white primer I have been using is a weird Navy mil-spec one that has been super durable on the floatplane but it is thick and overkill for normal application. Alodine is even harder to come by these days. A lot of shops have moved away from it. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 3:26:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 3/22/2024 4:37:00 PM EDT
[#18]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 4:52:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jodan1776: I used NAPA self-etching primer for all priming and to this day I use SEM Sem-Solv 38373 as final cleaning before priming anything. Both work great. clean prime IME, unless you're priming a bunch of stuff at once, all the pre-setup and post-cleaning of the gun isn't worth the effort, so I mostly use rattle cans for small jobs. Small jobs? Pfft. I watched a SSgt rattle can an entire AH-1Z back in 2019. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 4:57:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AmericanPeople]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: I’ll give these about 12 hours before dimpling and riveting. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/207473/IMG_5877_jpeg-3166324.JPG Why rush it? Has it achieved its near full cure in that time? On the engine..minimum 180 HP and a constant speed prop is a huge asset. Not a ground adjustable prop. Hartzell or similar. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:52:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: Why rush it? Has it achieved its near full cure in that time? On the engine..minimum 180 HP and a constant speed prop is a huge asset. Not a ground adjustable prop. Hartzell or similar. The instructions don’t give a full cure time. It just says dry for top coat in 2-3 hours. When I dimpled my test piece last night I didn’t see any chipping or flaking after just 2 hours. So I figure I’ll just let em sit for 12 hours for good measure. I had other things to do in the meantime. I cleaned up the edges of the horizontal stab pieces so they are ready to go when I get the new front spars. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 11:34:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Not sure why you're priming, then dimpling. I'd highly recommend doing the priming AFTER the dimpling. Last step before riveting.
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Posted: 3/22/2024 11:39:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jodan1776: Not sure why you're priming, then dimpling. I'd highly recommend doing the priming AFTER the dimpling. Last step before riveting. I agree. With tool contact and metal warpage, I would prime afterwards. You aren't going to be in a hazardous area for corrosion, which is a good thing anyways. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 5:21:11 AM EDT
[#24]
From what I’ve seen a bunch of folks clean/prime first so the scrubbing pads/ knuckles or whatever don’t keep getting caught on the dimples.
But I guess I could try it the other way for the horizontal stab. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2024 7:44:45 AM EDT
[#25]
You lost me at “low wing has the wing in the right location “ I’ve never seen a bird in the sky flying with a low wing yet…. Good luck with your build. It’s commitment for sure. I do back country style flying and camping. Love my 172 on big gear, but I’m building a PA-12 Bush plane as we speak. RV’s are neat kits. Assuming hours isnt one of the laser cut parts fiasco.
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Posted: 3/23/2024 8:50:50 AM EDT
[#26]
First official rivets set!
Good thing I picked up the flange yoke for the squeezer. I only had to drill out on 470 rivet which went smoothly, no damage to the hole. I thought I liked the look of the green primers with the rivets, but now I’m really liking the dark grey with the rivets.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 8:55:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By serbu50: You lost me at “low wing has the wing in the right location “ I’ve never seen a bird in the sky flying with a low wing yet…. Good luck with your build. It’s commitment for sure. I do back country style flying and camping. Love my 172 on big gear, but I’m building a PA-12 Bush plane as we speak. RV’s are neat kits. Assuming hours isnt one of the laser cut parts fiasco. The kit does have a few LCP’s but I’ve decided to press on. After watching their engineering analysis I’m comfortable using them. If you have 2 hours to spare, it’s pretty interesting. They kind of discovered why cracks actually happen in the first place. Id be surprised if they didn’t publish a white paper on it.  Van's Engineering Presentation - Laser Cut Parts  KITPLANES Roundtable on Van's Laser-Cut Parts Tech Briefing |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:06:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Looking good.
A guy in the second video, Paul Dye, was chief flight director for the shuttle program. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:16:03 AM EDT
[#29]
My father's good friend had a Vans Air and was building a second one. He was very active on Vansairforce and flew it to Oshkosh a few times.
He is in the memorial part of the forum now after he pushed the RV7 past it's limits. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:29:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vipersbyms: My father's good friend had a Vans Air and was building a second one. He was very active on Vansairforce and flew it to Oshkosh a few times. He is in the memorial part of the forum now after he pushed the RV7 past it's limits. I’m sorry to hear that… |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:32:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Question for anyone that might know, when the plans say to leave a hole open for a fairing does that mean it should not be dimpled? Obviously no rivet in there but I don’t know about the dimple.
Also, if I were to want to use nutplates instead of the pulled rivets I’m guessing now is the time to make that decision and put them in as once the skin is on it’s pretty much impossible to do later? Am I correct in thinking that? |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:49:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Question for anyone that might know, when the plans say to leave a hole open for a fairing does that mean it should not be dimpled? Obviously no rivet in there but I don’t know about the dimple. Also, if I were to want to use nutplates instead of the pulled rivets I’m guessing now is the time to make that decision and put them in as once the skin is on it’s pretty much impossible to do later? Am I correct in thinking that? Yes, leave some holes open for attaching the fairing. You’ll end up putting nut plates there. Plenty of room to install them at any time. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 11:00:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Wiring isn’t that hard and a lot of the avionics manufacturers include harnesses so it’s not that much work in the grand scheme of things. I’d probably go with Dynon if I built something, my dad has double glass Dynons in his airplane and they have worked really well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By cda97: Good luck Wiring isn’t that hard and a lot of the avionics manufacturers include harnesses so it’s not that much work in the grand scheme of things. I’d probably go with Dynon if I built something, my dad has double glass Dynons in his airplane and they have worked really well. The best part about building a new plane is you don't have to contend with 50 years of old wire left over and never removed. This is a T-41B I had to rewire that had stuff left over from Army and DEA, took forever.   
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Posted: 3/23/2024 11:05:03 AM EDT
[#34]
I’m not a light airplane guy but I love watching builds like this! I really respect the patience and attention to detail you guys have.
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Posted: 3/23/2024 11:05:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: First official rivets set! Good thing I picked up the flange yoke for the squeezer. I only had to drill out on 470 rivet which went smoothly, no damage to the hole. I thought I liked the look of the green primers with the rivets, but now I’m really liking the dark grey with the rivets. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/207473/IMG_5882_jpeg-3166895.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/207473/IMG_5883_jpeg-3166896.JPG Squeezing is cheating!!! Buck all things! And a bucking tip- use masking/duct tape on the head of the gun side. You can do it for the squeezer too. It will help with metal marks on the rivets IF it is in a place where you want to defects or it is going to show and you aren't going to paint it. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 11:25:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Squeezing is cheating!!! Buck all things! And a bucking tip- use masking/duct tape on the head of the gun side. You can do it for the squeezer too. It will help with metal marks on the rivets IF it is in a place where you want to defects or it is going to show and you aren't going to paint it. I'll squeeze anything the squeezer will reach. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 11:42:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RV8guy: I'll squeeze anything the squeezer will reach. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RV8guy: Originally Posted By UV18: Squeezing is cheating!!! Buck all things! And a bucking tip- use masking/duct tape on the head of the gun side. You can do it for the squeezer too. It will help with metal marks on the rivets IF it is in a place where you want to defects or it is going to show and you aren't going to paint it. I'll squeeze anything the squeezer will reach. Yep! My squeezers have never left a 'smiley'...
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Posted: 3/23/2024 6:20:55 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 3/23/2024 8:31:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: Squeezing is cheating!!! Buck all things! And a bucking tip- use masking/duct tape on the head of the gun side. You can do it for the squeezer too. It will help with metal marks on the rivets IF it is in a place where you want to defects or it is going to show and you aren't going to paint it. Well, you’ll be happy to know I’m about to buck! Really not looking forward to it…  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:21:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Thanks a lot USPS https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/207473/IMG_5884_jpeg-3167361.JPG That sucks!!! |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:23:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Sky]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Well, you'll be happy to know I'm about to buck! Really not looking forward to it https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/207473/IMG_5885_jpeg-3167457.JPG Start riveting on the bottom side to get the feel of it before attacking the top side...  And you WILL need to find a bucking buddy that you can work well with when it comes to the fuselage and wings. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:40:31 PM EDT
[#42]
First set of hand bucked rivets came out without any dents in the skin. I’m quite pleased with myself. Now I just have to make sure I don’t get cocky/overconfident and slip up.
It took me a little bit to figure out what I thought the best order of operations should be so everything could be reached/not box myself in. On to the other side.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:48:54 PM EDT
[#43]
I’ve had more than customer say to me “can you help me out here? I had my wife helping me buck rivets” Your wife huh? Sure thing. I’ll make those elephant tracks go away. lol
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:00:14 PM EDT
[#44]
I’m planning on having my retired neighbor help out. He’s the president of the local RC club and has been building RC planes for 40 years. So he can at least read a set of plans.
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:01:02 PM EDT
[#45]
I’m planning on having my retired neighbor help out. He’s the president of the local RC club and has been building RC planes for 40 years. So he can at least read a set of plans.
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:01:16 PM EDT
[#46]
I’m planning on having my retired neighbor help out. He’s the president of the local RC club and has been building RC planes for 40 years. So he can at least read a set of plans.
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:03:29 PM EDT
[#47]
3 round burst!
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:05:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: clayvt]
[#48]
Dang! Stupid internet glitched out
I just really wanted to drive the point home that I have a rivet buddy on standby. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:57:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ARHank]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clayvt: Dang! Stupid internet glitched out I just really wanted to drive the point home that I have a rivet buddy on standby.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 9:46:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: clayvt]
[#50]
One shiny completed (minus 2 rivets) vertical stabilizer!
The 2 rivets are either going to need a thin bucking bar or a thin nose yoke. I’ll probably go with the thin nose yoke since I’ve read it’ll be useful in lots of other places along the way. Probably going to start on the rudder next since I can’t do the horizontal stab till I get a new set of front spars. Thanks again USPS. (Ignore the drywall patches…I’ll get to them someday)  Attached File |
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