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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:51:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: I gave a question on the redbull brake incident, Max was upset they had him pit, i believe due to the danger presented to the pit crew had the ‘explosion’ happened just a few moments later but what should the protocol have been? Leave it on the side of the track and deal with it there or something else? I think maybe they thought they could continue to race when called to pit until they saw how bad it was. It wasn't an engine failure or electrical system failure, perhaps they thought they could clear the cooling duct or something? If I was on fire, I would want to stop at the nearest marshal post and let them put it out. That explosion was clearly the tire blowing out as you could see the visible change in that corner ride height, and that was a nasty amount of brake dust. If I was in the Red Bull garage I would be happy that happened in pit entry and not in front of the garage. That can't be good for your lungs. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:19:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Is Hitco still a player in F1? I haven’t heard the name in a while. I think AP too. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:25:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Remember when Albon had this happen a couple of years back? It was very similar; the appearance of a little 'bang' as the tyre let go, ejecting brake parts.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:27:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryShung's alright. He's passionate, knows he's a little biased but I used to mod an F1 forum a couple of decades ago and honestly he's pretty mild compared to the old Schumacher Tifosi people, who I can assure you were utterly intolerable. I don't think he's ever got mean in response to the ribbing, either. This thread is by and large pretty good. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:59:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#5]
By all accounts of the people on this board who have met me, I’m a decent person !
 And I don’t wear a red shirt or cap either. Funny observation read elsewhere: Max won 18 races out of the last 20. Of those 18, the p2 was taken 5 times by Checo and 5 time by lando. And twice by russel, Hamilton and Charles. Funny enough never by Carlos. Carlos was only P2 in the races that mattered and in which max had troubles. So it’s also a matter of luck or being at the right spot at the right time. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:03:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Pretty interesting tweet from F1 and something I thought of yesterday when I caught the end of the NASCAR race at COTA.
F1 cars make very long tracks look much shorter than they actually are. Put something slower on the same track and it is very evident. To that point, F1 cars aren’t built with a huge priority on standing starts and they don’t look particularly impressive compared to handling, braking, etc., but the launch numbers are actually pretty shocking.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:15:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#7]
From the telemetry, it appears that Alonso was 36kph slower than the previous lap in the point in which russel lost the car.
That’s a lot to be random. Another interesting stat. From spa 2023, leclerc leads sainz on race result 11/2 The only two times Carlos was ahead of leclerc are his 2 victories (and in Singapore leclerc helped him a lot to achieve that) |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:20:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thehun06]
[#8]
Let them race … Alonso’s penalty is idiotic
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:26:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#9]
So this is Pérez defending himself (why would he, if it was his floor fault he was so slow) or does he agree with the hypothesis I made yesterday ?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-sainz-would-have-absolutely-won-f1-australian-gp-against-verstappen/10591236/ Would he say such a thing if Red Bull disagreed ? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:27:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: From the telemetry, it appears that Alonso was 36kph slower than the previous lap in the point in which russel lost the car. That's a lot to be random. Another interesting stat. From spa 2023, leclerc leads sainz on race result 11/2 The only two times Carlos was ahead of leclerc are his 2 victories (and in Singapore leclerc helped him a lot to achieve that) True, but that's when Carlos was being a team player and trying to help Charles in the championship. I think we'll see a different Carlos this year. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:28:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: True, but that's when Carlos was being a team player and trying to help Charles in the championship. I think we'll see a different Carlos this year. I certainly hope so |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:40:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DCV_117]
[#12]
So far this year on average Danny Ric is slower than Nyck De Vreis when compared to Yuki
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:43:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Let them race … Alonso’s penalty is idiotic I agree. Lots of vocal folks on X feel the same way. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:47:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fike]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: I agree. Lots of vocal folks on X feel the same way. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By thehun06: Let them race … Alonso’s penalty is idiotic I agree. Lots of vocal folks on X feel the same way. This is the first time in history that F1 fandom has set aside the cult of personality and decided to objectively look at an incident. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:49:29 AM EDT
[#15]
F1.com has a "facts and figures" article here: FACTS AND STATS
With P2 today, Leclerc equalled his personal best point-scoring streak of 12 consecutive races. Umm, no. He DNS in Brazil, and that was only a 5 race streak. (Vegas, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Jeddah, and Australia). Sandwiched between Japan and Mexico, he had a DSQ at COTA for plank wear (also a Sprint weekend). Perhaps they're counting the sprint(s) as consecutive points finishes? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:49:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: This is the first time in history that F1 fandom has set aside the cult of personality and decided to objectively look at an incident. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By thehun06: Let them race Alonso's penalty is idiotic I agree. Lots of vocal folks on X feel the same way. This is the first time in history that F1 fandom has set aside the cult of personality and decided to objectively look at an incident. The penalty has Toto's fingerprints all over it. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:52:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117: So far this year on average Danny Ric is slower than Nyck De Vreis when compared to Yuki
RIC's performance is perplexing. When he tested in the RB-19, he did very well. Then he gets a seat at AT and sucks balls. Maybe it's the set up disagreeing with his driving style or he really lost his touch after the broken hand. Ultimately, I don't think he would have a seat right now if it wasn't for his personality and popularity. Lawson deserves a seat. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:52:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: This is the first time in history that F1 fandom has set aside the cult of personality and decided to objectively look at an incident. My sarcasm meter is pinging ! |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:57:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Ayumu Iwasa (Red Bull Junior/Honda Formula Dream Project) is slated to drive the RB #3 in FP1 at Suzuka. Currently drives for Team Mugen in Japanese Super Formula.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:02:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: RIC's performance is perplexing. When he tested in the RB-19, he did very well. Then he gets a seat at AT and sucks balls. Maybe it's the set up disagreeing with his driving style or he really lost his touch after the broken hand. Ultimately, I don't think he would have a seat right now if it wasn't for his personality and popularity. Lawson deserves a seat. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:03:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tifosi]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roland-G23: F1.com has a "facts and figures" article here: FACTS AND STATS Umm, no. He DNS in Brazil, and that was only a 5 race streak. (Vegas, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Jeddah, and Australia). Sandwiched between Japan and Mexico, he had a DSQ at COTA for plank wear (also a Sprint weekend). Perhaps they're counting the sprint(s) as consecutive points finishes? The sprints have reeked havoc on all the stats. I'm not a fan. eta: Some other "facts" they cite in that article ignore the sprints, and then some include sprints. That's why F1 stats are such a cluster-fuck now. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:11:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Pretty interesting tweet from F1 and something I thought of yesterday when I caught the end of the NASCAR race at COTA. F1 cars make very long tracks look much shorter than they actually are. Put something slower on the same track and it is very evident. To that point, F1 cars aren’t built with a huge priority on standing starts and they don’t look particularly impressive compared to handling, braking, etc., but the launch numbers are actually pretty shocking.
Watching the feeder races at Melbourne it was quite shocking how much faster the F1 cars appeared. A different planet. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:18:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Watching the feeder races at Melbourne it was quite shocking how much faster the F1 cars appeared. A different planet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By fike: Pretty interesting tweet from F1 and something I thought of yesterday when I caught the end of the NASCAR race at COTA. F1 cars make very long tracks look much shorter than they actually are. Put something slower on the same track and it is very evident. To that point, F1 cars aren't built with a huge priority on standing starts and they don't look particularly impressive compared to handling, braking, etc., but the launch numbers are actually pretty shocking.
Watching the feeder races at Melbourne it was quite shocking how much faster the F1 cars appeared. A different planet. F1 is like watching any other race at 3x playback speed. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:24:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: F1 is like watching any other race at 3x playback speed. It really is! |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:38:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deadtired: I think getting cut after years of frustration, then coming back, then getting immediate hurt and being out for weeks, then trying to come back again probably got to him psychologically. That's a lot of career ups and downs in a relatively short time. I'm wondering if he's a little gun-shy on track now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deadtired: Originally Posted By Cypher214: RIC's performance is perplexing. When he tested in the RB-19, he did very well. Then he gets a seat at AT and sucks balls. Maybe it's the set up disagreeing with his driving style or he really lost his touch after the broken hand. Ultimately, I don't think he would have a seat right now if it wasn't for his personality and popularity. Lawson deserves a seat. I always reference Daniel’s helmet designs/slogans when looking at his psychology. As soon as he left Red Bull it became “stop being them (start being yourself)”, then “become unstuck”, then “all good, all ways”, which is a textbook worth of fodder for analysis. When you start wearing a costume and riding a horse into the paddock, it’s not a stretch to assume that you might have lost the plot on why you are actually meant to be there. So after all the off track drama he gets benched and then gets a second chance. As a set for life 34 year old, does he still have the hunger to reset, sacrifice, and push the limits? It doesn’t really look like it. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:01:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117: So far this year on average Danny Ric is slower than Nyck De Vreis when compared to Yuki
Good. I like Danny, but his time has come and go. He can’t say he wasn’t given a comeback chance. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:03:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: The data easily showed he braked twice, the first time being considerably early. ETA: Per the FIA report, it was 100 meters early. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By tifosi: They don't have brake lights. The lights only flash when the battery is harvesting energy. Or they put them on in the rain, but not under braking. Then he was obviously slowing and getting regen, same thing. It serves the same purpose. The data easily showed he braked twice, the first time being considerably early. ETA: Per the FIA report, it was 100 meters early. Do the rules dictate when a driver can apply brake/accelerator? I'm no expert but that didn't look like any kind of brake check to me, Russell just missed that Alonso was slowing and panicked when he finally noticed. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:08:47 PM EDT
[#28]
How reliable is the source’s source?
Definitely don’t disagree with the sentiment and i think Liam would do a great job. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:10:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: I gave a question on the redbull brake incident, Max was upset they had him pit, i believe due to the danger presented to the pit crew had the ‘explosion’ happened just a few moments later but what should the protocol have been? Leave it on the side of the track and deal with it there or something else? I believe he was upset that they started to swap the tires, not so much that they had him pit. Thats how I took the "Fucking stupid" comment to mean. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:15:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Do the rules dictate when a driver can apply brake/accelerator? I'm no expert but that didn't look like any kind of brake check to me, Russell just missed that Alonso was slowing and panicked when he finally noticed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Originally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By tifosi: They don't have brake lights. The lights only flash when the battery is harvesting energy. Or they put them on in the rain, but not under braking. Then he was obviously slowing and getting regen, same thing. It serves the same purpose. The data easily showed he braked twice, the first time being considerably early. ETA: Per the FIA report, it was 100 meters early. Do the rules dictate when a driver can apply brake/accelerator? I'm no expert but that didn't look like any kind of brake check to me, Russell just missed that Alonso was slowing and panicked when he finally noticed. The rules forbid driving unnecessarily slowly, erratically, or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous. Braking and downshifting and then accelerating and up shifting and then braking again is erratic. Fernando admitted to the stewards that he was attempting to slow earlier but “got it wrong”. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:16:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Side comment for those who understand the speeds at Road Atlanta.
The Speed Tour series was out here over the weekend. In one set of classes we had the downforce. So think LMP2 types, SR10 Radicals, and the new Revolution Cars running, but also included was a 2010? V10 Judd Swapped engine F1 car.....the fucking thing was running 1:11s around Road Atlanta. I can't tell you how mind blowing that time is around here....makes me wonder what a current gen F1 car could do here. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:00:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: Side comment for those who understand the speeds at Road Atlanta. The Speed Tour series was out here over the weekend. In one set of classes we had the downforce. So think LMP2 types, SR10 Radicals, and the new Revolution Cars running, but also included was a 2010? V10 Judd Swapped engine F1 car.....the fucking thing was running 1:11s around Road Atlanta. I can't tell you how mind blowing that time is around here....makes me wonder what a current gen F1 car could do here.  I'm not sure my mind/hands could ever work fast enough for 1:11's...
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:20:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: Side comment for those who understand the speeds at Road Atlanta. The Speed Tour series was out here over the weekend. In one set of classes we had the downforce. So think LMP2 types, SR10 Radicals, and the new Revolution Cars running, but also included was a 2010? V10 Judd Swapped engine F1 car.....the fucking thing was running 1:11s around Road Atlanta. I can't tell you how mind blowing that time is around here....makes me wonder what a current gen F1 car could do here. I vaguely recalled Ferrari doing a demo lap a few years back and found this article. https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a19492021/ferrari-f2003-road-atlanta-record/ Mark Gene did a demo lap at 1:01.2 in the F2003. I’d bet the modern cars would easily be sub 1 minute around Road Atlanta if properly set up for the track. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:25:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tifosi]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Petrel800: I vaguely recalled Ferrari doing a demo lap a few years back and found this article. https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a19492021/ferrari-f2003-road-atlanta-record/ Mark Gene did a demo lap at 1:01.2 in the F2003. I'd bet the modern cars would easily be sub 1 minute around Road Atlanta if properly set up for the track. Tried to do a comparison between LMP2 at Spa and LMP2 at RA ... Last year, the fasted LMP2 qualifying lap at Spa was a 2:05.979. Max's pole lap that same year was a 1:46.168, or 84.27% of the LMP2 time. Using the LMP2 quali time from the 2023 Petite Le Mans (1:13.859) and factoring it by 84.27%, a theoretical F1 lap would be 1:02.241 Theory not being the same as reality, a sub 1 minute lap would be quite believable, especially in quali trim. I'd imagine race laps would be in the 1:03 to 1:05 range. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:39:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: Agreed. Tried to do a comparison between LMP2 at Spa and LMP2 at RA ... Last year, the fasted LMP2 qualifying lap at Spa was a 2:05.979. Max's pole lap that same year was a 1:46.168, or 84.27% of the LMP2 time. Using the LMP2 quali time from the 2023 Petite Le Mans (1:13.859) and factoring it by 84.27%, a theoretical F1 lap would be 1:02.241 Theory not being the same as reality, a sub 1 minute lap would be quite believable, especially in quali trim. I'd imagine race laps would be in the 1:03 to 1:05 range. Its crazy to think what your VMIN has to be through out the track to hit those times. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:59:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: i tried getting the telemetry from lap 1 on F1 tempo, but it only starts at lap 2.... strange if anyone has it, id be interested to see what was the largest gap, cause I never saw it above the sec. Most of us enjoy the race for what it is. We don't armchair quarterback every second of the telemetry |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:06:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tifosi]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: Its crazy to think what your VMIN has to be through out the track to hit those times. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: Originally Posted By tifosi: Agreed. Tried to do a comparison between LMP2 at Spa and LMP2 at RA ... Last year, the fasted LMP2 qualifying lap at Spa was a 2:05.979. Max's pole lap that same year was a 1:46.168, or 84.27% of the LMP2 time. Using the LMP2 quali time from the 2023 Petite Le Mans (1:13.859) and factoring it by 84.27%, a theoretical F1 lap would be 1:02.241 Theory not being the same as reality, a sub 1 minute lap would be quite believable, especially in quali trim. I'd imagine race laps would be in the 1:03 to 1:05 range. Its crazy to think what your VMIN has to be through out the track to hit those times. WEC was clear and dry. Looking at the 2022 pole time, the F1 time was 82.29% of LMP2, so that's just 60 seconds and a fraction at RA. Yes, absolutely bonkers to think about. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:06:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: It really is! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By Cypher214: F1 is like watching any other race at 3x playback speed. It really is! This is five years old but it gives a comparison of F1 vs Indycar at COTA.  F1 vs IndyCar @ CoTA |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:07:03 PM EDT
[#39]
It’s going to be a long #two weeks.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:22:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR:
Turn off the sound and watch the event. Russel's panic isn't what is in question. He was scared, but the event didn't warrant a Red Flag. The brake lights flashed at least 4 times and RUS kept closing until it was lost. The lights flash, those are 4 pumps. I think the penalty was unfounded. Years before brake lights, maybe. Now, no penalty. Wait...you thought those were brake lights? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:51:13 PM EDT
[#41]
F2 cars and Indy cars perform similarly on road courses.
On ovals Indy cars are mind boggling fast. F1 cars are turning machines coupled with rocket engines but don’t reach the peak speeds of Indy cars. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:52:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rickesis: Wait...you thought those were brake lights? Yes Since been educated but to certain extent they serve a similar purpose. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:57:03 PM EDT
[#43]
I don't blame Russell for getting a bit jumpy. The recent fatalities in single seaters have been under those circumstances. Crash survivability is great for everything but other cars.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:58:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: I don't blame Russell for getting a bit jumpy. The recent fatalities in single seaters have been under those circumstances. Crash survivability is great for everything but other cars. Fair point. If he'd taken a hit to the middle of the car, it could have been catastrophic. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:08:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MikeJGA: Most of us enjoy the race for what it is. We don't armchair quarterback every second of the telemetry well, it would allow you to have a more accurate understanding of things, prolly. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:18:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Fair point. If he'd taken a hit to the middle of the car, it could have been catastrophic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By Esterhase: I don't blame Russell for getting a bit jumpy. The recent fatalities in single seaters have been under those circumstances. Crash survivability is great for everything but other cars. Fair point. If he'd taken a hit to the middle of the car, it could have been catastrophic. And he knew it was Fernando….  Fernando Alonso Brake Checks David Coulthard - European Grand Prix 2003 |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:25:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RealityCheck0311]
[#47]
Sorry if this was already posted and I missed but I read something funny the other day.
Guess halfway through the last race Max Verstappen's gamertag showed up iRacing as actively racing. It's his confirmed verified tag. So during the actual race, Max started playing on his simulator in the trailer after retiring. Someone in the comments mentioned that this is common even after he wins races. Like an hour or two after a race win, his gaming tag will pop up showing he's using the simulator in his trailer. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:25:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: So this is Pérez defending himself (why would he, if it was his floor fault he was so slow) or does he agree with the hypothesis I made yesterday ? https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-sainz-would-have-absolutely-won-f1-australian-gp-against-verstappen/10591236/ Would he say such a thing if Red Bull disagreed ? He said that right after the race, before he knew of the floor issue fwiw. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:27:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RealityCheck0311: Sorry if this was already posted and I missed but I read something funny the other day. Guess halfway through the race Max Verstappen's gamertag showed up iRacing as someone actively racing. It's his confirmed verified tag. So during the actual race, Max started playing on his simulator in the trailer. Someone in the comments mentioned that this is common even after he wins races. Like an hour or two after a race win, he's in his trailer playing on the simulator. Its why Max is likely to be the Goat. God knows Lewis has never had that kind of dedication to racing. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:31:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RealityCheck0311: Sorry if this was already posted and I missed but I read something funny the other day. Guess halfway through the last race Max Verstappen's gamertag showed up iRacing as actively racing. It's his confirmed verified tag. So during the actual race, Max started playing on his simulator in the trailer after retiring. Someone in the comments mentioned that this is common even after he wins races. Like an hour or two after a race win, his gaming tag will pop up showing he's using the simulator in his trailer. I believe it. He was probably happy he DNFed so he could hop on iracing asap. He was probably annoyed he had to miss the 12 hours of Sebring for the Aus GP. |
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