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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 5/29/2001 1:03:37 PM EDT
I can't figure out why you can't buy whatever barrel you want? It is still much bigger then a pistol. And, if I already have a pistol permit why can't I have a 4" rifle barrel if I so choose? It just doesn't make any sense to me. You can have a small gun and a big one, but no medium sized ones? What is up with that?
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:06:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:08:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 1:07:39 PM EDT by pogo]
In a nutshell, it boils down to the definitions of a rifle under federal law (16" min barrel, 26" LOA or so, buttstock). Edit: 18" is in Canada. If you have a pistol AR, there are no such restrictions. You will learn real quick that rifle cartridges have a customary minimum length and that is concussion. A half dozen rounds from a 4" 223, 308, or 300 Winchester will leave you in a daze. Sorta takes the fun out of it.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:15:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GeoffM24: why can't I have a 4" rifle barrel if I so choose?
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Because they [b]KILL CHILDREN![/b] Hey here's a question, a buddy of mine here at work and me were noticing a lot of pistols with buttstocks at the last gunshow. I thought I'd heard somewhere that thats considered an SBR under NFA regs, even if it just has a lug to attach a buttstock? Is that right? Would an AR pistol need a different type of lower to prevent buttstock attachment if it was a [i]post-1934[/i] AR?
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:16:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pogo: . A half dozen rounds from a 4" 223, 308, or 300 Winchester will leave you in a daze. Sorta takes the fun out of it.
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Wuss. I love my SBR Barrett 50. [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:29:52 PM EDT
Ask that sparky315, he knows everything.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:48:25 PM EDT
It makes no sense at all, but it is the law. If you think that one is bad, try rationalizing how a piece of leather that is made into a pocket holster that allows a derringer to be fired from inside the holster is considered a class 3 weapon (machinegun). Government=Logic and reason? NOT
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 3:16:37 PM EDT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By pogo: . A half dozen rounds from a 4" 223, 308, or 300 Winchester will leave you in a daze. Sorta takes the fun out of it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wuss. I love my SBR Barrett 50.
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I'm with Garandman - I've got an 8.9" full auto .308 (HK51A3) - loudest mofo I've ever shot, but geez, what an adrenaline rush! Fun, fun, fun...
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 5:24:31 PM EDT
A) What is an AR15 pistol, and how do I get one? B) Do I have to pay to get a SBR license? Thanks
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 5:36:32 PM EDT
Good question. Does anyone know the process for licensing a SBR?
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 5:50:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 5:49:23 PM EDT by shaggy]
If you want to build a SBR or SBS, its basicly the same process as transferring a machinegun or other NFA weapon. You have to complete a BATF form 1 (application to make a NFA weapon), get a CLEO signoff, get fingerprints, pictures and send the whole mess off to the NFA Branch along with the $200 making tax. Once you get your form back and approved, you can assemble the SBR or SBS. Note however, that gun is now an NFA weapon and can only transfer to a new owner as an NFA weapon - with the same formalities you did to make it (although for transfer you need a form 4, not a form 1) - the form, the pictures, the fingerprints, and the tax. Before doing anything you should check your state law to make sure NFA weapons, in particular the type you want to make, are not prohibited. If not, check with your local CLEO to see if you can get a signoff - this is the most difficult part of the process. If its just an AR15 pistol you're after, it can be assembled and transfered just like any other handgun. If you are assembling or making it yourself, the receiver cannot ever have been assembled into a rifle or had a stock on it. Remember, once a rifle, always a rifle. You must start with a virgin receiver. Additionally, any AR15 pistol made after 9-13-94 must comply with the 1994 AWB and its restrictions on weight limit and assault features for pistols.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 5:51:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GeoffM24: A) What is an AR15 pistol, and how do I get one? B) Do I have to pay to get a SBR license? Thanks
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A) Look around, I'm not sure how much they cost probably about $1500+, but keep in mind you can have a short bbl, but can't have a stock on one. Also some of the postban ones have the mags welded in place to abide by the 'assault weapon' nonsense. B) Make sure it is legal for the state you live in. You can either find a C3/SOT that can explain the process and find you a registered SBR, or you can do the paper work yourself which requires getting the papers from the BATF, getting a CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) signoff from your sheriff, or other folks, getting a passport photos, fingerprinted, cut a check for the $200 tax stamp, and wait 3 months+. When you are approved, slap that short upper on your AR, but remember, a post ban SBR is still a post ban 'assault weapons' and must abide by that law.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 9:09:40 PM EDT
It's all in how the government defines firearms. Federal Law: RIFLE: A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metalic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each pull of the trigger. SHORT BARRELED RIFLE: A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length, and any weapon made from a rifle, wether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches. PISTOL: A weapon originaly designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand and having: (a) A chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permmanently alinged with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s). The term ''semiautomatic assault weapon'' means - (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher; Pistol: Ability to accept a detachable magazine and 2 of the following: (a) magazine that attaches outside of the pistol grip, (b) threaded barrel that can accept a barrel extender, flash hider, forward hand grip or a silencer, (c) a shroud that is attached to, or partialy or completely encircles the barrel, that permits the shooter to hold the weapon with the non-trigger finger without being burned, (d) weighs 50 ounces or more with the pistol unloaded, and (e) a semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm. ANY OTHER WEAPON: Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 9:24:32 PM EDT
So to answer your question it's the people who made the laws and the people who allowed the laws to pass are the reasons why it's so fucked up! If you want to build a AR15: SBR? Then apply for it through the ATF. Pre and post ban rules apply. Pistol? You are shit out of luck, since you can't get new pre ban AR15 lowers that are were registered as a pistol lower before the ban. You can build one out of a post ban IF: it weighs less than 50 ounces (Profesional Ordnance) OR if the magazine is made permanant non-removable. Your best bet is to buy either a Professional Ordnance pistol or a pre-ban AR15 pistol. You could always go the AOW route: AR15 never registered reciever Short or as long a barrel as you want No Stock of any kind Threaded barrel Flash hider Forward pistol grip It's not a pistol, it's not a rifle, it's not an "assault weapon", it's an "ANY OTHER WEAPON". Still, you need to do the ATF and head LEO BS and pay to play! You can never ever put a stock on it or remove the forward grip.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 2:01:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ClearFire: You could always go the AOW route: AR15 never registered reciever Short or as long a barrel as you want No Stock of any kind Threaded barrel Flash hider Forward pistol grip It's not a pistol, it's not a rifle, it's not an "assault weapon", it's an "ANY OTHER WEAPON". Still, you need to do the ATF and head LEO BS and pay to play! You can never ever put a stock on it or remove the forward grip.
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So if I want a real AR pistol that can accept mags, I have to have a "never registered reciever" What do you mean by that? never NFA registered or never been serial numbered (like an 80%)? And if a person gets an 80% reciever I thought that qualified as building the gun yourself, which I thought didn't need any type of registration?????
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 2:22:47 PM EDT
If you want an AR-15 pistol you really only have two choices: 1. Buy a pre-ban AR-15 pistol (BIG BUCKS) 2. Buy a post-ban AR-15 pistol - Professional Ordanance. I have a PO pistol - It's a blast!!!! Don't expect it to be a tack driver though - Just a toy. [[:)]
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