Appreciate the input, truck prices have gotten absolutely out of control. Figure the next six months to a year could be a good time to get something at a reasonable price. The Sierra has been a great truck. I’ve owned it longer than any other vehicle ever.  It gets the bed filled frequently with material for home renovations, hell I had a 3.5ton package unit in the bed at one point.  So I don’t think an suv would be a great move, been mostly looking at the ranger and if I could find a zr2 in my price range. I can’t do the seating position of the Tacoma.

Im just worried that as much as the size is a hinderance that I will regret downsizing but it sounds like that hasn’t necessarily been an issue for you two.  The full size was nice last summer when we went on a family trip for a week and a half. We had three adults and two car seats without issue plus all the other actual stuff we brought.  We wouldn’t have been able to do that with a smaller truck but honestly that situation is so few and far between I’d probably be better off renting a full size suv for that situation than living with a full size truck everyday.

Yeah I’ve accepted that the fuel economy will be roughly the same with the exception of the zr2 diesel.  I do use the bed of my truck frequently I’ve towed maybe three times in the six years I’ve had it so I’m not really concerned about that. And either of the midsizes I am looking at tow enough for my needs.

Edit with the 34s and a level my mpg isn’t great so I may actually see a boric or gain with a midsize.  

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Current work in progress

02 F250 5.4L 2V, 4r100, manual transfer case, 4.10 gears with a limited slip in the rear.

Paid $900 for this truck in 2016 and spend a lot of money in parts and body parts over the years, last year I decided to make it into an overland type vehicle after sleeping in the cab about a dozen times uncomfortably on range weekends. Found an El cheapo topper on Facebook for $200 and swooped it up.

Proceeded to build wood tables on both sides and laid an air mat across the top. That was short lived due to comfort reasons so I bought a cot and modified my setup.

Today since the weather was nice and I didn't feel like working on the bronco, I finally got to go through the truck and start writing down stuff I need to buy for it to have it loaded out for extended weekends out.

I reckon its finally to the point of being able to post it online

This is awesome.

I’m stuck on the same thing. I have a 2012 Silverado and worry about down sizing. A ZR2 Colorado would be awesome I think but right now don’t want to fork out that money and not ready for a smaller truck. But like you said the support/upgrades are just about non existent.

As much as I want to downsize every time I see a power wagon I want to throw all reason out the window and go even bigger.

Man, that's a cool setup!

What's the story on the $900? Seems like that'd be almost scrap value or something. You must have done so much work to get it going again, which makes the whole thing even better to me.

That was 2016 money so probably $1600 in today's money

The guy I bought it off of was almost the original owner. He worked for an HVAC business and when the company retired the truck he bought it for personal use. 254K miles into its life, someone T-Boned his wife while she was driving. After the insurance company stuff was done he had it out in a farm field for $900, my brother and I bought it together so he could use it as his first vehicle, a fender, header panel, and headlight later were on the road. Did trans lines as they were leaking, then brake lines, leveling kit, "New" bed, just lots of maintenence and wear parts. Gibson dual exhaust was added down the road but it's too quiet for my taste, but my neighbors can't hear it so it works out. It's been a good truck, just with 280K miles on it now and requires a bit more maintenance than most things on the road. It's been my 3rd superduty truck so far and they've all been phenomenal with longevity and reliability.

So here's the thing with that. Being in a PW i can give you some of the benefits and draw backs.  Because for every time you want to throw all reason out the window, i have the same moments where i wish i had gotten a Gladiator or Tacoma. Not enough to actually change, though.

It's all about your priorities. If you want to tackle tough terrain, the PW is good for that. The instant you add *tight* into the mix, you lose any advantage your size might give you as it becomes a huge detriment. Such that there are many trails you simply have to write off as undoable due to width, and a number more that you have to accept you'll likely take damage if you do them where a Gladiator or Taco (and certainly Wrangler etc.) wouldn't. That's not to say you can't do those trails, you just have to accept the inevitable likelihood.

This works for my situation (for the most part) because i never really intended this to be a hard use rock crawler or technical trail vehicle. I wanted something that could be a daily driver if needs be and yet also take my family on some amazing trips into the back country. There are SO many roads out there that fit that bill that i will never even come close to seeing anything but a small percentage of them. Yes, there are a few trails i've seen on Youtube that i would like to do but have decided are a No because the truck size (mostly width) will make that problematic. But because my use case is on the easy side of "Overlanding", it means that i can get away with something like a PW and then i reap the benefits, because those size drawbacks also come with some benefits.

Probably the biggest being comfort. Sitting in a full size is SO much more comfortable than a midsize. Plus you have some much more space for gear storage or whatever you want to do with it. And if you want to tow, that becomes much easier as well. And lets not forget the sound. While the Taco is dead reliable and the Gladiator works just fine, their V6s sound like ass. Period. The new 4 in the new Taco is even WORSE. A v8 on the other hand.... (Plus while my mileage isn't great, there's something to be said for having a 33 gallon tank)

Which is ultimately what sold me on the PW. We're going to get a trailer, and that will also be easier to manage with a PW.  Even before we had decided on that, the extra room in the bed would have made something like a canopy camper much more spacious.

So my use case being things like BDRs and well established Forest Service roads / trails, the PW is kind of a no brainer. Now, you can do all that PLUS more with a mid-size, but my wife isn't really into the more stuff. She wants to see the pretty scenery and wildlife, not crawl over rocks. So that sort of makes the decision for me. I'd much rather have a PW, the hassle of a trailer and my wife in the truck with me than a Gladiator, no trailer and be by myself.

Probably the one notable drawback (that isn't trail accessibility related) to a PW that you don't have with a Gladiator or Taco... or even the new Tundra (ugly as it is) is aftermarket support. The PW is so specific in a number of ways that it limits your options when it comes to suspension, bumpers etc. Where as those other three i listed... the world is pretty much your oyster, you can do whatever you want and there will be 5 to 10 options for everything. The Tundra isn't quite there yet, but it's been crazy popular with a lot of folks and companies are churning out new stuff like crazy for it.

As a side note, while it's not necessarily a "drawback", the PW on 37s and a Carli suspension kit ain't for short folk. My wife needs a step stool to get in. Something like a Gladiator with the same size tires isn't nearly as difficult, simply due to the design of the vehicle.

Yesterday I found a sizeable mouse nest and I didn't want it to stay there. So today I took the dash out of my Samurai. It was an old nest. It cleaned out fairly easily and I only had 1 extra screw when I was done putting it back together.

I'm almost running out of things to fix/repair/spend money on.

Lol j/k there's always something to spend money on.

KOA life ain't so bad, there's wifi and a power outlet so I can run an extension cord into the tent

I'm glad I brought ear plugs though, cause high school kids just occupied the 3 sites next to mine.

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Burned my legs out in Canyonlands today, and tooled around on some of the BLM land.  I'm excited to check out some trails tomorrow.

Note to anyone planning a trip:  There's a ton of campsites all over the BLM land north of Canyonlands.

FWIW - i've taken my PW on some very tight trails marked "high clearance narrow 4x4 vehicles only."  And i've had to fold the mirrors in and 'push through' brush fairly severly.

I took some body damage and knocked the (stock) running boards loose on Black Bear pass.  If i had equipped it properly it is unlikely it would have been anything more than scratched paint on rocker guards.

Also, i was doing it all alone, without a spotter and experimented when i shouldn't have.  Ah well.


For me - taking a vehicle somewhere folks think it won't go, successfully, is part of the fun.


Everyone gets their kicks differently and that's OK.  Do what you like.  There is room for all types.  




And all that said - i had some serious drama on the highway last night and may end up with a new vehicle.  We will see what insurance says.  Will I go with another PowerWagon?  I'm not sure.  If i do, i'll likely forego the RAMBOXes in preference of a DECKED system this time.



Also....  you get used to carrying as much gear as your vehicle can hold.  If you have a full-size truck, you'll fill it up too.  Do you really need to carry a full set of combination wrenches and a hydraulic jack?  Do you really need to pack three full size lounger camp chairs?  Take a step back and really consider what gear you *need* for your use-case, and then think about your cost / benefit curve for everything else.

Overlanding is a different ball game than wheeling.  And boondocking in your 4x4 sprinter whilst going cycling or hiking on local trails is different than either.  Do you really need all that gear all the time?

This is a great synopsis. Better than mine, mostly because I'll be the first to admit, I err heavily on the side of caution. I don't mind pin stripes, but I'm not really interested in body damage, or the risk of it. Yeah, I'm a bit of a chicken in that regard.

I would love to do Black Bear, because I like that sort of thing (it's why I wanted to do Shafer) but my wife hates heights and I loath the risk of damage that potentially could cause. So two strikes and I'm out.

At some point I may pick up a dedicated rock rig, but probably not. I'm more of the "camping" side of Overlanding rather than the challenge side of it. Some of that is my wife, but I know some of it is me too.

And that sucks about losing your PW

Having had a 1500 with Ramboxes and then getting my PW without, I think you will like options afforded you in not having them. The boxes make you SO limited on what you can put in and on the bed. I plan to get a cap with side bins for storage rather than Decked, but we have some trucks at work that use the Decked drawers with their cargo slide on top and the crew guys love it.

1.) "Not supposed to be there" is always fun when you run a gnarly trail. The LJ on 33's has got the "here we go look" before when everything in front of us was 37"+ JL/JK's.

Made it just fine.

2.) When you are on the side of the road in BFE eastern KY with a seized something or other, it's nice to have the jack and set of wrenches. I've since added the little Milwaukee impact to the collection of stuff

1. or when you're aired down and in low range and pass a beat up Corolla
2. can confirm, especially when it's your buddy's truck that always breaks

Got the ARB compressor installed.  The mounting plate is actually made for a SwitchPro but I modified it a bit to use the VoSwitch.  I'll probably pull it all back apart and flip the VoSwitch to route all the wiring underneath.  The picture shown doesn't have the air lines, I've since installed those and have done some playing with the compressor.  It fills tires and water toys fast.  I'm pretty impressed with it.

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Sure.  

For me, the adventure is a big part of the fun.  And while testing the limits of my truck and driving ability is a part of that, a part of the risk factor is "if i break something, what will it take to get the truck out."  So i drive accordingly.  I 'carefully' it through obstacles and don't romp on it.  I'm never going to do a major repair on the trail.  Some folks like to run the limit until something breaks.  That's not me.  And certainly not while alone.  And certainly not when support is a long, long, walk away.  


I got in my truck one morning about 2 AM after a date and it just plain wouldn't start.  Wouldn't even try.  I had it towed to the dealer and they replaced the starter.  The thought of that happening when i was at the bottom of a fairly gnarly trail in nowhere Utah makes my blood run cold.  Oof.  And the thing is, it's not like i'm going to carry a starter.  A trip to get a starter can include getting the proper tools as well.

So for MY use case, enough tools to say - change a tire or rig up some temporary measure to creep back to asphalt.  Or extra recovery gear to enable a self-recovery in lieue of potentially damaging maneuvers is enough.  Therefore, i save that cargo capacity for other stuff relevant to my adventures.  Such as SCUBA gear.  'Cause i never know where i'll end up and i like to have my own stuff.  


The larger point is, to the original guy who was worried about losing capacity by going to a smaller vehicle, all i'm saying is... just like you can end up spending all the money you make, you can end up just filling your rig to the brim with... stuff.    I certainly have.  I have a RAM 2500 with a 6'4" bed that's... full.  The rear seat is full.  The RAMBOXes are full.  It's ridiculous.  But my vagabond use case is a bit different than a weekend adventure use case.

Black Bear pass is very doable in your PW.  The tightest part is the first right turn switchback on the way down past the mine.  You'll need the forward camera or a spotter to maximize every inch of space.  But it's very do-able if you take it easy and are willing to wiggle your rig back and forth a few times.

I tried to cut it too tight and had my rear passenger tire on the uphill side while the rest of the truck was on the downhill side.  Oops.  

Your wife may want to walk for a bit though.

I'm spec'ing out a new 4x4 Ford truck for a slide-in camper. Besides the camper package itself, what are some good factory-installed options to get? I already have remote start, 400-watt outlet, and upfitter switches (which includes 250 Amp Alternator) on my list. If it matters, the intent is to overland / boondock as much as possible and avoid RV campgrounds.

@von_landstuhl


You will want a well built tie down system for a truck camper.

Go to:

https://tweetys.com/truck-camper-accessories.aspx

Get TorkLift for the truck & a set of Fast Gun tie downs to keep the camper in place.

We are on camper number 6. Current rig is 2020 F350 6.7 drw. Camper is a '21 NorthernLite 10.2.

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We also have a '21 Keystone Fuzion toy box in 35', 13' garage.

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fwiw the hitch for the 5th wheel has been changed to a goose neck & attaches to a removable ball in the center of the box.  I highly recommend this style over a traditional saddle & pin box. Best of 'get both' worlds

In keeping with this thread.
Our overlanding is mostly done on a 4 wheeler or RZR.

https://youtube.com/shorts/6boiCBwcgys?si=x4QvKiDQu9610oLY


Not sure why I can't insert a vid.

Back in the day I've gotten stuck in many places with a '78 Bronco, various pickups to  include a heavy ass F350 7.3. These days, the truck sticks to roads that can carry the load of the truck & camper or the 5th wheel.

In January we were boondocking in the KOFA near the Yuma proving grounds. The trail system in Arizona is 1000's of miles of rough desert & mountain terrain. Attached File


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The Barry Goldwater Bombing range is an interesting place.

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It can tear up the equipment even if you are careful

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That is A-arm number 4

You need a fabbed set.

more pics

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Stripped left rear axel after a vigorous sliding turn
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Is that along the El Camino del Diablo?

Call it what it actually is, car camping.

Some of those pics are. <thumbsup>

That so called 400 watt outlet is Fn useless. My 180 watt Milwaukee inverter puts out a lot more power than it. I have yet to find anything that will actually run off the Ford outlet.

Ok pops,,time to get to bed….

Standard starlink will.  And it's quite handy for that purpose as well as running myriads of charger / switching power supply devices.

I need a temporary vehicle.  


Considering an 80 or 100 series.  I don't know much about them.  But...  that's never stopped me before.


Any thoughts?  Any recommendations?  Any you've been looking at with lust and envy and want to share the listing?

Good luck finding a decent 80 that isn't over priced. I looked for awhile because I always wanted one then realized for the price I can buy a 5th gen 4runner or JK.

a well maintained, rust free 80 will go for about forever. but good clean ones are also getting harder to find.

the 4.7 in the 100 also will go for forever, but they can have some absolutely stupid issues if its one that has the A/C and nav head unit combo.

I always forget I've got the forward camera until after I'm done needing it

And I hear you on Black Bear. I know I could. I've seen enough videos of guys doing it, and it's like you said, they first switch back is what gets me. Hell, some of it like the shelf are probably easier with the big truck than the short wheelbase stuff.

Mostly I just don't want to risk it when I know my wife would hate it even if I had one hell of a grin after conquering it. She closed her eyes the entire descent of Shafer and I thought that was easy peasy. She's going to dislike some of Ophir, Imogene and Alpine Loop this July as it is. We're doing easy stuff like Valley if the Gods and Onion Creek to make up for it because she'll like that.

Moab is awesome, I wanna stay another week  

We burned out our legs at Arches yesterday, so I went back to Canyonlands to hit the White Rim road for a bit (I spotted it while hiking saturday).  Most of it was about like Shafer, with a few bumpy areas that made me slow down.  The scenery was fantastic though!  I'd love to get an overnight permit and do a 3 day trip around the whole rim.

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Arfcom needs a better image compression tool, cause almost all of my photos are over the size limit

Headed to Capitol Reef in the morning.

Great pics man.

The photo uploader frustrates me sometimes too, even if I crop the shit out of a pic "image size exceeded."

Those are beautiful shots though.

What do you guys like for apps, if any? I see OnX Offroad, Gaia Trails, and a couple others in the app store.

I just need a way to find (off)roads rated for my setup, which is completely casual LC200 series with no real recovery gear at this point. Thinking more like forest service and logging roads and stuff like that vs technical trails.

Will eventually at least add a winch I think, but haven't decided yet how I want to do it.

That's a cool truck

If he wants to ruin it, I just walked past this thing

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I use Gaia premium, iOverlander (free), Alltrails (free), and Google earth.  You can find lots of routes online and watch YouTube videos to gauge how difficult they are.  Or ask here.  Someone in this thread has been there

I had OnX offroad, but something about it pissed me off so I deleted it.    having trail ratings was handy.

Gaia, onX off-road, iOverlander are my main ones.


I use onX and iOverlander to review and sort of figure out my route for the day.  iOverlander is not a mapping app, it shows crowdsourced camping spots, which is very nice.  I find spots and then hit the link to dump them to Gaia to set waypoints.

Then check against Gaia with MVUM and some other maps loaded.  Then mark my route with Gaia and then sync to my iPad (which is mounted to dash) running Gaia.  That way i can just glance down and see where i am, and other useful statistics.  Knowing my average speed and doing quick math in my head to see how i'm progressing throughout the day.  etc.

So basically, other apps for route planning / review and Gaia for actual off-road nav stuff.  

I've found Gaia to be far superior to the others for the different map layers you can have loaded, as well as auto-routing and general navigation use.  But onX has trails marked and reviews and such, which is handy.


There are some others such as Dyrt, Campendium, and others that have useful info.


Some states have a fairly comprehensive .gov website that shows off-road trails, fire roads, etc.  Such as the Backcountry Discovery Trail system in the PNW.

I use Gaia and Google Maps

I like the overlays on Gaia.

Thanks all. I'll download a couple of those and start learning. Sounds like Gaia and iOverlander are my first 2.

We're leaving Chicago today and stopping off at a "charming" (or so I'm told) Airbnb in Ste Genevieve MO. Never heard of the town but I'm sure it'll be nice

After a week of big city stuff I'm thinking about a quiet activity and maybe there's some national or state forest around that area.

Wow.  it's been some time since i actually dug through Gaia and played with the features.  Particularly on the website.


FWIW - Gaia premium is a no-brainer.  Layering maps for your preferences specifically is where much of the magic happens.  


Choose a base map:




Then start layering in the things you want to see:


Motor Vehicle Use Map:




And looking through the available layers - the USFS recreation sites would probably be handy:




And then adding the state and county borders as dynamic label objects:





Above screenshots show Rimrocker trail from Montrose, CO to Moab, UT.  My GPS track, as well as the prescribed GPX file from the website, with waypoints added by me for camping spots, interesting points, and so on.

That's my favorite thing about Gaia.

You've done nothing to prove that it isn't.

Okay, to be fair to Narwhals, while he may be trolling, he's not really wrong. Overlanding *is* a form of "car" camping. You have a vehicle, you take it someplace, you camp.

That said, many (not all) of the places that you see Overlanders going would be defeated by a normal car. You are not taking your Camry on the Rimrocker Trail and dispersion camp at a convenient spot (since TinLeg just brought that up, thought it was appropriate). You can, however, drive said Camry to an established campground somewhere in the mountains.

So calling Overlanding "just" car camping is a bit disingenuous. People put effort into their builds to go places normal cars can't go specifically so it's NOT just "car camping" or going to a basic campground where you have to put up with noisy teenagers.

Besides, no one spends this kind of money on regular ole "car camping"

Gaia

BTW - if the wife enjoys riding along, just hates the steep stuff, Rimrocker is an excellent choice.  If camping is an option there are some great spots along the way.  The section closest to Moab is very rough and kinda boring (in my opinion) but it's easy to bypass.

If camping is not an option it may not be a good choice.  Figure on spending at least one night on the trail.  My track shows ~12 hrs moving and 12 hrs stopped.  That included one night and several 'look about' stops along the way.  I was taking it easy but also not lollygagging, if that makes sense.


Here is my Share of the track and waypoints.  

https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=10.1/-108.4769/38.3130&pubLink=mrP0Yj7xFvNZUZ3UqlK6YBR3&folderId=089bd4f3-de07-4cc0-8c89-995010b8475f



ETA:  I ripped off the driver's tubular step in the aforementioned incident and my preferred replacement option, Randy Ellis designs sliders, are aparently no longer being manufactured.  Did you run across any similar rocker guards (mounted to the body specifically) in your research?  I may also try to factor in a different bumper.  Currently looking at Expedition1.  But... pricey.

Thank you very much, TinLeg. This particular trip, we won't be camping, it's more of a half daily offroading and half site seeing at National Parks/Monuments trip.  The offroading is to help me and wife figure out some of what we do and don't want to do. That said, i've watched Trail Recon and a few others do this trail, and i want to do it at some point. I'm angling towards doing one of the easier BDRs because i think that would be fun (Plus a 2 or 3 day trail isn't really enough, for me, when that's how long i have to drive just to get out West)

Current plan is we'll be going to Overland Expo West next year to pick out a trailer.

My wife doesn't love the offroading portion, but she's okay with it when it means you pull into a clearing and there's some wildlife. Or great scenery. She's more against rock crawling and especially dislikes shelf roads. So we're kind of pushing the envelope a bit with Ophir/Imogene, but i'm mixing in some other stuff so we can figure out what works for us. We've done enough to know we want to keep doing more, just trying to refine things at this point. And experience new stuff to figure out what to plan for in the future.

At the end of the day, we're both compromising on things we do and don't want to do so we can do all of this together, because that's the most important part for both of us.

SOB Fabrication makes the nicest rear bumper IMO for the Powerwagons. You can get them with 1 or 2 swing outs, or without any swing outs. Also Expedition One has some nightmare stories out there as far as service and actual availability. Attached File
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