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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ERNURSE: Cant Greece afford some paint, thing looks like it has Bondo all over!! The ukes will paint it. Maybe even stick some ERA here and there? |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:41:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: You don't suppose it has anything to do with thousands of felons finishing up their contracts and being set loose? Surely they saw that coming and had a plan? Son, the Russians don't take a dump without a plan. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:41:10 PM EDT
[#3]
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:00:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Haub]
[#4]
"...countermeasures are more expensive and scarcer. So Ukraine generally can't launch SHORAD or MANPADS to shoot them down, giving Russia persistent ISR coverage behind Ukrainian lines. MANPADS also are not optimized for defeating them. Developing cost-effective countermeasures should be a priority." |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:03:41 PM EDT
[#5]
LOL Medvedev
"Russia could seize assets and property of U.S. individuals held in Russia if Washington confiscates Russian sovereign assets, Dmitry Medvedev, the deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, claimed on April 27." |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:08:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#6]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:10:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: The ukes will paint it. Maybe even stick some ERA here and there? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By ERNURSE: Cant Greece afford some paint, thing looks like it has Bondo all over!! The ukes will paint it. Maybe even stick some ERA here and there? Florks to the rescue! 
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:12:36 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:25:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Haub:
"...countermeasures are more expensive and scarcer. So Ukraine generally can't launch SHORAD or MANPADS to shoot them down, giving Russia persistent ISR coverage behind Ukrainian lines. MANPADS also are not optimized for defeating them. Developing cost-effective countermeasures should be a priority." |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:49:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#10]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:51:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#11]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:52:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By absael: Yeah, that's an understatement... IMO having countermeasures against small, cheap drones is going to be critical in this war, and any others for the foreseeable future. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By absael: Originally Posted By Haub:
"...countermeasures are more expensive and scarcer. So Ukraine generally can't launch SHORAD or MANPADS to shoot them down, giving Russia persistent ISR coverage behind Ukrainian lines. MANPADS also are not optimized for defeating them. Developing cost-effective countermeasures should be a priority." It seems a bit of a reach though because there have been numerous videos posted of manpads being used to take them down. Letting enemy recon assets freely roam around in your rear areas is beyond stupid. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:49:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: It seems a bit of a reach though because there have been numerous videos posted of manpads being used to take them down. Letting enemy recon assets freely roam around in your rear areas is beyond stupid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By absael: Originally Posted By Haub:
"...countermeasures are more expensive and scarcer. So Ukraine generally can't launch SHORAD or MANPADS to shoot them down, giving Russia persistent ISR coverage behind Ukrainian lines. MANPADS also are not optimized for defeating them. Developing cost-effective countermeasures should be a priority." It seems a bit of a reach though because there have been numerous videos posted of manpads being used to take them down. Letting enemy recon assets freely roam around in your rear areas is beyond stupid. Yes, but the cost of a Stinger missile, for example, is at least $100k. It seems to me that the ideal solution would be a relatively small directed energy weapon, like this:  https://www.popsci.com/technology/firing-raytheon-laser-weapon/ |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:29:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#14]
As stated numerous times in this thread, please leave domestic politics out of this thread. You will be warned, and or banned from the thread for any further sliding. There are other threads for those discussions.
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Posted: 4/27/2024 8:59:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ERNURSE: Cant Greece afford some paint, thing looks like it has Bondo all over!! It looks like a steam punk fighter. I like it! |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 9:06:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Flogger23m]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: From what I've read up to today: 19 from Denmark. 22 from Norway. 24 from the Netherlands. 32 from Greece, and possibly 24 Mirage 2000-5. (unspecified number) from Belgium. They'll be a mix of F16 A/B(MLU) and F16 C/D, depending who's sending what. The Greek Mirages are modernized, as well, if those are approved and sent. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: So how many F-16s from Denmark in total? 24 are being sold to Argentina. Denmark seems to have 30 in service currently. Unless they had more in storage that number seems quite small. From what I've read up to today: 19 from Denmark. 22 from Norway. 24 from the Netherlands. 32 from Greece, and possibly 24 Mirage 2000-5. (unspecified number) from Belgium. They'll be a mix of F16 A/B(MLU) and F16 C/D, depending who's sending what. The Greek Mirages are modernized, as well, if those are approved and sent. Not a bad number. I wouldn't mind donating a few F-16s we are retiring if they're just going to be used as aerial targets. The Mirage 2000-5 is quite nice. France should donate their recently retired Mirage 2000Cs as well. Those are quite dated, inferior to F-16A MLUs. But they can probably get them to work with the AASM Hammer that France is already donating, and likely jerry rig AGM-88s like they did with MIG-29s/Su-27s. Unfortunately France was looking at buying the original batch of 30 UAE Mirage 2000-9s, but those appear to be going to Morocco instead. France OK’s Transfer Of UAE’s 30 Mirage 2000-9 Fighters To Morocco I have to assume the UAE isn't quite ready to take a hard stance on Russia yet and want to appear neutral. They also turned down the F-35 and purchased Chinese training jets. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:04:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Greece F-16, I hope they don't send scrap.  https://i.imgur.com/HcecVTw.jpeg That's a cool paint job. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:26:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By absael: Yes, but the cost of a Stinger missile, for example, is at least $100k. It seems to me that the ideal solution would be a relatively small directed energy weapon, like this: https://www.popsci.com/uploads/2022/10/28/ZCS0A0811-copy-2.jpg?auto=webp&optimize=high&width=1440 https://www.popsci.com/technology/firing-raytheon-laser-weapon/ Agreed. I think it will always be more expensive to develop a kinetic countermeasure (that can find, seek, chase, and intercept drones and missiles) as opposed to a cheap drone or "flying bomb" that just goes straight to a pre-programed target. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:11:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: It looks like a steam punk fighter. I like it! |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:15:19 AM EDT
[#20]
What's the most cost effective and reliable system for defending power plants in Ukraine? Or militarily are they just not worth defending?
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:16:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Agreed. I think it will always be more expensive to develop a kinetic countermeasure (that can find, seek, chase, and intercept drones and missiles) as opposed to a cheap drone or "flying bomb" that just goes straight to a pre-programed target. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By absael: Yes, but the cost of a Stinger missile, for example, is at least $100k. It seems to me that the ideal solution would be a relatively small directed energy weapon, like this: https://www.popsci.com/uploads/2022/10/28/ZCS0A0811-copy-2.jpg?auto=webp&optimize=high&width=1440 https://www.popsci.com/technology/firing-raytheon-laser-weapon/ Agreed. I think it will always be more expensive to develop a kinetic countermeasure (that can find, seek, chase, and intercept drones and missiles) as opposed to a cheap drone or "flying bomb" that just goes straight to a pre-programed target. Disregard the title of the video. It highlights multiple systems. keep in mind these are systems we know about  ISRAELI New LASER System Will Protect Israel Against ATTACK! |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:25:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Haub: LOL Medvedev
"Russia could seize assets and property of U.S. individuals held in Russia if Washington confiscates Russian sovereign assets, Dmitry Medvedev, the deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, claimed on April 27." He should….punish whoever is dumb enough to have their assets in Russia lol. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Anyone have a latest demarcation line map?
I keep seeing posts on social media that UA has lost a lot of ground lately. I went back several pages and didn't see a front line map. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:02:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gotigers: Anyone have a latest demarcation line map? I keep seeing posts on social media that UA has lost a lot of ground lately. I went back several pages and didn't see a front line map. by alot of ground it means a few square kilometers. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:40:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gotigers: Anyone have a latest demarcation line map? I keep seeing posts on social media that UA has lost a lot of ground lately. I went back several pages and didn't see a front line map. Comparatively speaking, yeah a “lot” as of late, but not really anything significant. Then again, it’s been a steady drip of losses since the original counteroffensive. And it doesn’t seem that Ukraine has the manpower to launch another one. There are barely enough to hold the line apparently. The recent aid package gives me hope, but the pessimist within me continues to think that a game changer is needed to turn the tide. A big one, like direct western involvement. ISW Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 27, 2024    
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:49:15 AM EDT
[#26]
I think the obvious answer to the infrastructure attacks is to build it back less centralized post-attack.
The logistics of attacking 50,000 generators will make it impractical to waste resources hitting them. Pie in the sky lasers sound cool 'n all... but driving Putin insane trying to put the light out IS cool. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:05:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: I think the obvious answer to the infrastructure attacks is to build it back less centralized post-attack. The logistics of attacking 50,000 generators will make it impractical to waste resources hitting them. Pie in the sky lasers sound cool 'n all... but driving Putin insane trying to put the light out IS cool. It will be very hard to do in practice. The Soviet housing model has the power plants providing both electricity and heating + hot water to dense cities made of high rise buildings. Using electric heaters in winter was knocking out power even in peacetime. While most buildings have gas, there isn't a place to stick a central gas furnace. And where would the gas come from anyway? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:12:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: It will be very hard to do in practice. The Soviet housing model has the power plants providing both electricity and heating + hot water to dense cities made of high rise buildings. Using electric heaters in winter was knocking out power even in peacetime. While most buildings have gas, there isn't a place to stick a central gas furnace. And where would the gas come from anyway? I have gas heating... The gas comes out of a tank in my back yard.  I get it. Disbursing all that shit is not easy. It will also keep the people maintaining it VERY busy. It's a better solution than building back the same. Only to have it blown up again a week later. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 4:01:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Flogger23m]
[#29]
US buys 81 Soviet era planes from Kazakhstan.
The declared sale value was one billion Kazakhstani tenge, or $2.26 million, said the Post, meaning the average value of each plane was $19,300. I hope Kazakhstan is ready to start replacing their air force with modern western planes, because I'm sure Russia will target them after Ukraine. I assume the MIG-29s and Su-24s were purchased for parts. $20,000 each is quite low. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 4:30:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: US buys 81 Soviet era planes from Kazakhstan. I hope Kazakhstan is ready to start replacing their air force with modern western planes, because I'm sure Russia will target them after Ukraine. I assume the MIG-29s and Su-24s were purchased for parts. $20,000 each is quite low. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: US buys 81 Soviet era planes from Kazakhstan. The declared sale value was one billion Kazakhstani tenge, or $2.26 million, said the Post, meaning the average value of each plane was $19,300. I hope Kazakhstan is ready to start replacing their air force with modern western planes, because I'm sure Russia will target them after Ukraine. I assume the MIG-29s and Su-24s were purchased for parts. $20,000 each is quite low. I am sure Russia is super happy about this! |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:59:41 PM EDT
[#31]
https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-to-get-laser-guided-bombs-from-uk/
Uk giving GPS/ Laser guided bombs to UA |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 6:16:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Thinking this will be a force moving forward. Maybe no more Russian navy?
Ukraine submarine |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 8:13:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By absael: Yeah, that's an understatement... IMO having countermeasures against small, cheap drones is going to be critical in this war, and any others for the foreseeable future. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By absael: Originally Posted By Haub:
"...countermeasures are more expensive and scarcer. So Ukraine generally can't launch SHORAD or MANPADS to shoot them down, giving Russia persistent ISR coverage behind Ukrainian lines. MANPADS also are not optimized for defeating them. Developing cost-effective countermeasures should be a priority." It is a well-known threat, and is referred to as a "Drone Swarm". Ukraine will be useful as the effects of "real" drone swarms actually done by (and to) combatants on both sides under tactical conditions, as opposed to a test or simulation drone swarms, can now be better assessed and quantified by the "big brains" at Fort Sill, Huntsville, and other places. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:54:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: I know they're all worn out. Military procurement has been fucked for decades. But a worn out plane that last for one maybe two years in a desperate struggle to save your country, is better than no planes and getting glide bombed by your enemy with no way to stop it.  They don't need to dog fight, they need planes in the air that can launch anti-ship and cruise missiles and drop JDAMS. They have how many planes now, 8 or 10, or some stupid low number like that, I'm not sure what it is. Ideally they'd be getting new off the line F15EX in two years when these finally fell completely apart, but that ain't happening either. FJB Shit the only thing they have in abundance, is courage. Maybe Ukraine could turn them into one-way drones... |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:47:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Nice to think about, but no way this admin would do something like this. FJB. I don't think he has the power to do this on his own, does he? |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:50:14 AM EDT
[#36]
I hope all this 'calm' is related to identifying key targets for the inbound armaments, best application of resources, and a fuck-ton of F-16's armed, fueled and ready to go.
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:56:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverLightning: Maybe Ukraine could turn them into one-way drones... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverLightning: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: I know they're all worn out. Military procurement has been fucked for decades. But a worn out plane that last for one maybe two years in a desperate struggle to save your country, is better than no planes and getting glide bombed by your enemy with no way to stop it. They don't need to dog fight, they need planes in the air that can launch anti-ship and cruise missiles and drop JDAMS. They have how many planes now, 8 or 10, or some stupid low number like that, I'm not sure what it is. Ideally they'd be getting new off the line F15EX in two years when these finally fell completely apart, but that ain't happening either. FJB Shit the only thing they have in abundance, is courage. Maybe Ukraine could turn them into one-way drones... Exactly what I was thinking. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:34:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverLightning: Maybe Ukraine could turn them into one-way drones... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverLightning: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: I know they're all worn out. Military procurement has been fucked for decades. But a worn out plane that last for one maybe two years in a desperate struggle to save your country, is better than no planes and getting glide bombed by your enemy with no way to stop it. They don't need to dog fight, they need planes in the air that can launch anti-ship and cruise missiles and drop JDAMS. They have how many planes now, 8 or 10, or some stupid low number like that, I'm not sure what it is. Ideally they'd be getting new off the line F15EX in two years when these finally fell completely apart, but that ain't happening either. FJB Shit the only thing they have in abundance, is courage. Maybe Ukraine could turn them into one-way drones... Maybe, but I think it'd be a waste. All they have to do is take off, fly level and launch cruise and anti ship missiles and drop glide bombs. You can be a worn out rattle trap and do that for a year or so until plans for the delivery of newer planes can be worked out, or the war, one way or the other, is over. I keep hearing No this or that idea won't work. Or, No, they aren't worth the time/ effort. For us, that's correct. But UA ain't us. And if we aren't going to give them our good planes or planes fresh off the production line, those old rattletraps are worth every bit of effort to make them work. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for someone who desperately needs something to defend themselves with, anything is better than nothing. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:46:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Maybe, but I think it'd be a waste. All they have to do is take off, fly level and launch cruise and anti ship missiles and drop glide bombs. You can be a worn out rattle trap and do that for a year or so until plans for the delivery of newer planes can be worked out, or the war, one way or the other, is over. I keep hearing No this or that idea won't work. Or, No, they aren't worth the time/ effort. For us, that's correct. But UA ain't us. And if we aren't going to give them our good planes or planes fresh off the production line, those old rattletraps are worth every bit of effort to make them work. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for someone who desperately needs something to defend themselves with, anything is better than nothing. Well I would say its up to UA to decide. However, I don't think they have deep legions of pilots, and couldn't handle the loss of them. Drone does not have to be one way, and they might be quite useful as a piloted semi autonomous drone, where they could fly in with missels, drones and other weapons to overwhelm Russian AD and do some major damage, (Bridge anyone?).. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 1:46:50 PM EDT
[#40]
 Ukraine Uses a Yak-52 Trainer to Hunt Drones |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 2:00:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: I hope all this 'calm' is related to identifying key targets for the inbound armaments, best application of resources, and a fuck-ton of F-16's armed, fueled and ready to go. I’m hoping it’s for a late summer offensive, but I know that’s dreaming. If UKR is to have any hope, that’s what they should be doing.. training conscripts and organizing a decisive push. Long list of reasons why that’s probably not possible but one can hope. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 2:21:14 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 4/29/2024 2:56:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GBTX01:
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Posted: 4/29/2024 3:02:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: Well I would say its up to UA to decide. However, I don't think they have deep legions of pilots, and couldn't handle the loss of them. Drone does not have to be one way, and they might be quite useful as a piloted semi autonomous drone, where they could fly in with missels, drones and other weapons to overwhelm Russian AD and do some major damage, (Bridge anyone?).. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Maybe, but I think it'd be a waste. All they have to do is take off, fly level and launch cruise and anti ship missiles and drop glide bombs. You can be a worn out rattle trap and do that for a year or so until plans for the delivery of newer planes can be worked out, or the war, one way or the other, is over. I keep hearing No this or that idea won't work. Or, No, they aren't worth the time/ effort. For us, that's correct. But UA ain't us. And if we aren't going to give them our good planes or planes fresh off the production line, those old rattletraps are worth every bit of effort to make them work. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for someone who desperately needs something to defend themselves with, anything is better than nothing. Well I would say its up to UA to decide. However, I don't think they have deep legions of pilots, and couldn't handle the loss of them. Drone does not have to be one way, and they might be quite useful as a piloted semi autonomous drone, where they could fly in with missels, drones and other weapons to overwhelm Russian AD and do some major damage, (Bridge anyone?).. It's only up for UA to decide, if what I'm suggesting is offered. The U.S. ain't offering. As far as pilots, they don't have many, but right now they have more pilots than they do planes. When the F16's finally arrive I'm not sure what the ratio will be. I kinda like the semi autonomous idea but if the F16's are as clapped out as we presume them to be, they may have a string of planes for each pilot so he can have at least one to fly that day. I am deeply, and utterly disgusted with the way the west has handled this war. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 3:14:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GBTX01:
The little guy looks pissed and is catching up fast! |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 5:09:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: The little guy looks pissed and is catching up fast! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By GBTX01:
The little guy looks pissed and is catching up fast! Wait until he does catch up then watch the fireworks!
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:29:33 PM EDT
[#47]
As the new aid from the US and some of the other supporting nations starts to arrive I sincerely hope some of it is capable of taking down that bridge once and for all.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:41:27 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Haub:
"...countermeasures are more expensive and scarcer. So Ukraine generally can't launch SHORAD or MANPADS to shoot them down, giving Russia persistent ISR coverage behind Ukrainian lines. MANPADS also are not optimized for defeating them. Developing cost-effective countermeasures should be a priority." It seems Ukraine found a counter for them with the Yak-52 with a gunner in the backseat. At least in Odessa where they have relative air superiority. I am sure the USA could do something similar with the armed Airtractor SOCOM is buying or Super Tucanos, etc. Maybe make a podded version of that small AESA radar we are putting on the MSHORAD and the palletized anti drone system to give them a sensor system. APKWS could be the weapon system for taking the drones out, especially if the rumored proximity fuse comes to pass. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:53:44 AM EDT
[#49]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 8:42:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GBTX01]
[#50]
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