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Posted: 9/14/2023 6:55:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxTacticalArms: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57708/IMG_6102-2856375.jpg That thing is a work of art. |
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Posted: 9/14/2023 8:20:51 PM EDT
[#2]
This Katate-uchi dates from the 1500's and is attrubuted to Kenemoto.
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Posted: 9/14/2023 8:29:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doubleplusgood: This Katate-uchi dates from the 1500's and is attrubuted to Kenemoto. https://i.imgur.com/oEbfWR1.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/oEbfWR1.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/yj2C4jf.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/yj2C4jf.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/qRSmEZM.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/qRSmEZM.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/szrKZlT.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/szrKZlT.jpg Very nice |
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Posted: 9/14/2023 8:51:15 PM EDT
[#4]
A few of my Tsuba
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Posted: 9/14/2023 11:13:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Beautiful
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Posted: 9/15/2023 10:18:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Fred Lohman can have koshirae made. You will get the best results if you provide your own fittings ... but he does have a wide variety of new fitting available. https://www.japanese-swords.com/pages/prices.htm I had him make the furniture for my 1500s Norimitsu katana. I provided all of the fittings (which were from the 1600s), so that made it very nice. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1715/IMG_20190629_163947-998798.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1715/IMG_20190629_164004-998799.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1715/IMG_20190629_164019-998800.jpg @DK-Prof So he did the saya/sageo, tsuka, and ito, with you supplying the hardware (habaki, kashira, tsuba, etc.)? Fuck, I hope I got the parts right… Looks like beautiful work. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 4:34:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: @DK-Prof So he did the saya/sageo, tsuka, and ito, with you supplying the hardware (habaki, kashira, tsuba, etc.)? Fuck, I hope I got the parts right… Looks like beautiful work. Pretty much. IIRC, the habaki was cracking, so I had him provide a new habaki as well. I had a tsuba that I really liked, and a set of fuchi, kashira and menuki that I cannibalized from an old koshirae that I didn't need for anything. It was originally sold to me with a sword in shirasaya, and was claimed to be the correct koshirae - but it clearly did not fit the sword, so I just had it laying around for no reason. But the fittings were really nice ... so it worked out great to re-use them for this Koto katana that needed new furniture.  |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 10:01:47 PM EDT
[#8]
@DK-Prof
Dumb question incoming… My son made black belt in karate which let him “graduate” to studying sword work. He has a bokken and a Chinese made katana, and I was kicking around getting him something special as a gift. I’ve stumbled across a sword made in the Edo period that is in pretty rough shape. A lot of surface rust, no hamon showing, just the blade with no hardware. Would that be worth the time to bring back to life as a father/son project? It’s under $100 so I’m sure we can’t ruin it any more than it already is. Is there a good resource on how to restore/polish these? I do have a blacksmithing/blade smithing background, but finish work was always done on belt sanders and polish machines, so I doubt that there would be a ton of carryover. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 10:06:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CajunMojo]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: @DK-Prof Dumb question incoming… My son made black belt in karate which let him “graduate” to studying sword work. He has a bokken and a Chinese made katana, and I was kicking around getting him something special as a gift. I’ve stumbled across a sword made in the Edo period that is in pretty rough shape. A lot of surface rust, no hamon showing, just the blade with no hardware. Would that be worth the time to bring back to life as a father/son project? It’s under $100 so I’m sure we can’t ruin it any more than it already is. Is there a good resource on how to restore/polish these? I do have a blacksmithing/blade smithing background, but finish work was always done on belt sanders and polish machines, so I doubt that there would be a ton of carryover. If you do this, by all that is holy, please share the progression here!  ...or if you make a separate thread, tag me. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 10:30:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CajunMojo: If you do this, by all that is holy, please share the progression here! ...or if you make a separate thread, tag me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CajunMojo: Originally Posted By JAD762: @DK-Prof Dumb question incoming… My son made black belt in karate which let him “graduate” to studying sword work. He has a bokken and a Chinese made katana, and I was kicking around getting him something special as a gift. I’ve stumbled across a sword made in the Edo period that is in pretty rough shape. A lot of surface rust, no hamon showing, just the blade with no hardware. Would that be worth the time to bring back to life as a father/son project? It’s under $100 so I’m sure we can’t ruin it any more than it already is. Is there a good resource on how to restore/polish these? I do have a blacksmithing/blade smithing background, but finish work was always done on belt sanders and polish machines, so I doubt that there would be a ton of carryover. If you do this, by all that is holy, please share the progression here! ...or if you make a separate thread, tag me. Ha! I haven’t started a new unfinished project in a while so I just might. But if I do, I fear that I may serve as a lesson in what not to do.  I have hand finished small blades before. It’s just a matter of working through progressively finer grits until you get to the finish you’re after. Theoretically, it should be the same here…right? I’ve never explored what goes into refinishing a Japanese blade, so I genuinely don’t know. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 10:46:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#11]
It's a tricky question, and I don't really know enough about polishing to give you a good answer.
The general rule for polishing of traditional Japanese swords seems to be: don't try it because you will ruin the blade. In Japan, polishers often apprentice for as much as 7-10 years before they are considered fully trained. Part of the issue is that not only is it difficult to get the exact surface finish correct (using a series of polishing stones and stone powder), but the polisher is also shaping the blade to the correct symmetry. Because Japanese swords have soft steel cores, with a harder steel exteriro, if too much steel is removed and the core is exposed, then the blade is ruined. (As a related note, this means that an old Japanese sword can only be polished so many times over its lifetime. Some old blades are sometimes described as "tired" if they have been polished three or four times, because it means they cannot be polished again without ruining them). On the other hand - how much of the alleged super complicated and mysterious art of polishing is just tradition and myth? Perhaps using modern techniques and materials, it might not actually be too difficult to try to polish a Japanese sword? Trying with a cheap blade that otherwise would never be brought back, and would just forever languish as a rusted piece of trash may not be that bad an idea. ... Of course the concern for some people is that an old blade MIGHT have been properly restored by a trained and licensed polisher ... but if an amateur attempts it, they WILL ruin it. But, if it's an old rusty blade that NOBODY is actually ever going to pay a licensed polisher to restore, then I done see the harm in trying. Even if you fail and the blade is ruined, so what? Nothing was really lost if nobody was ever going to properly restore it anyway (which is definitely true for a $100 rusted Edo blade) ... and there's a chance you might succeed! So while other Japanese sword collectors might consider it heresy and sacrilege, I say "go for it"  |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#12]
@JAD762
if the blade really is that far gone, (pics please) and you have some experience look up : hybrid polishing japanese blades and go from there. It can be done, and very well if you take your time. just bear in mind that your blade will NEVER be up to Japanese polishing standards. but, you CAN make it look good and be functional again. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:19:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: It's a tricky question, and I don't really know enough about polishing to give you a good answer. The general rule for polishing of traditional Japanese swords seems to be: don't try it because you will ruin the blade. In Japan, polishers often apprentice for as much as 7-10 years before they are considered fully trained. Part of the issue is that not only is it difficult to get the exact surface finish correct (using a series of polishing stones and stone powder), but the polisher is also shaping the blade to the correct symmetry. Because Japanese swords have soft steel cores, with a harder steel exteriro, if too much steel is removed and the core is exposed, then the blade is ruined. (As a related note, this means that an old Japanese sword can only be polished so many times over its lifetime. Some old blades are sometimes described as "tired" if they have been polished three or four times, because it means they cannot be polished again without ruining them). On the other hand - how much of the alleged super complicated and mysterious art of polishing is just tradition and myth? Perhaps using modern techniques and materials, it might not actually be too difficult to try to polish a Japanese sword? Trying with a cheap blade that otherwise would never be brought back, and would just forever languish as a rusted piece of trash may not be that bad an idea. ... Of course the concern for some people is that an old blade MIGHT have been properly restored by a trained and licensed polisher ... but if an amateur attempts it, they WILL ruin it. But, if it's an old rusty blade that NOBODY is actually ever going to pay a licensed polisher to restore, then I done see the harm in trying. Even if you fail and the blade is ruined, so what? Nothing was really lost if nobody was ever going to properly restore it anyway (which is definitely true for a $100 rusted Edo blade) ... and there's a chance you might succeed! So while other Japanese sword collectors might consider it heresy and sacrilege, I say "go for it" Right on, I appreciate it! I’m thinking along the same lines as your last paragraph. A quick google search says it’s $100-130 per inch to polish a sword. With a 30 inch cutting surface you’re looking at $3k just to get the blade done - if it can be. Or you can get a decent complete sword with a signed tang for $1k-1500. So I doubt anyone would get this unsigned sword from sometime in the edo period professionally redone. It is essentially a dead sword. If I get into it and completely screw it up it’s not like it’s a major loss to world heritage. And it’s not like I’m planning on putting it back into the market. The goal here to be to make a memory with my son and give him something unique to swing around in his small town karate dojo. But, it’s in an online auction and the price cranked up to $200 all in with a day left, so I guess we’ll see what happens. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:21:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doubleplusgood: @JAD762 if the blade really is that far gone, (pics please) and you have some experience look up : hybrid polishing japanese blades and go from there. It can be done, and very well if you take your time. just bear in mind that your blade will NEVER be up to Japanese polishing standards. but, you CAN make it look good and be functional again.  
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LA, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:28:13 PM EDT
[#15]
What would be a good suggestion for a new sword intended for actual use? I would like some decent steel but does not have to be an art piece.
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:32:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By doubleplusgood: @JAD762 if the blade really is that far gone, (pics please) and you have some experience look up : hybrid polishing japanese blades and go from there. It can be done, and very well if you take your time. just bear in mind that your blade will NEVER be up to Japanese polishing standards. but, you CAN make it look good and be functional again. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/266317/IMG_7123-2962512.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/266317/IMG_7122-2962513.jpg yeah, thats pretty rough. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 4:20:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: So I doubt anyone would get this unsigned sword from sometime in the edo period professionally redone. It is essentially a dead sword. If I get into it and completely screw it up it’s not like it’s a major loss to world heritage. Part of the dilemma with rusted blades is the uncertainty as to whether or not it is a good/valuable blade at all. Many older swords are unsigned because they were shortened (from the tang end) at some point in their history, and the signature was lost. For a well preserved and polished swords, experts at a shinsa (essentially a sword grading/rating convention) can usually identify a sword based on the appearance, shape, metal grain, tempering pattern, etc. Sometimes they will be able to attribute an unsigned sword to a specific smith and very narrow period, and other times they may only be able to attribute to a school and a general time-period. The dilemma occurs when you have an unsigned and rusted blade in which the grain and patterns in the blade are simply not visible - and it would cost (as you say) about $3k to have it polished so that it could be sent to a shinsa (which will cost about $500 itself) ... and maybe another $500 - $3000 for shirasaya or koshirae. If you spent $3k, and discover it's a rare Inoue Shinkai blade worth $50k, then you've obviously hit the jackpot. But it's much more likely that it might just be some unremarkab!e blade from an average school, and might not be worth what you paid for the polish. So that's the problem - if you decide it's to experiment and tinker, and end up ruining the blade, that's no big deal if it really IS an unremarkable Edo blade, because it would never have been worth the money to restore it anyway ... But it would be a tragedy if it actually was a rare and valuable blade. What some people will do is pay a polisher to "open a window" in which they polish an inch or two, just to reveal the details of the metal grain and pattern, which would then allow an expert to try to evaluate it better. Of course, that involves getting a polisher to do that (and good polishers have waiting lists that are years long), and you would have to know the expert(s) who will evaluate the blade. You cannot send a rusty blade with an open window to a shinsa (and you also wouldn't want too pay the hundreds if dollars in fees anyway). Like I said, it can be a dilemma.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 7:19:24 AM EDT
[#18]
While it would be a shame to ruin a historically significant sword, the odds are low and it likely never would have been discovered otherwise.
Go for it, GL with bidding. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:49:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Well, it got bid up to $400 all in, so I passed on it.
Maybe worth it if I kinda knew what I was doing, but not for the hack job I’d inevitably do. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:54:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: Well, it got bid up to $400 all in, so I passed on it. Maybe worth it if I kinda knew what I was doing, but not for the hack job I’d inevitably do. Keep looking! |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 1:15:46 PM EDT
[#21]
I have a old WWII sword that is a mix of civilian and cherry blossem furniture.
Had it about 15 years tang is signed and it's in ok shape could use a refinish. any suggestions if I grab pix of it? |
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USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 1:23:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DaveM4P99]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTHP: I have a old WWII sword that is a mix of civilian and cherry blossem furniture. Had it about 15 years tang is signed and it's in ok shape could use a refinish. any suggestions if I grab pix of it? Post pics here and I can post pics over on the Nihonto message boards. Those guys are true experts and can probably attribute your blade to a swordsmith and time period. Take clear photos of the tang and signature, and the tip, and the whole blade! Don't try to polish or remove rust. Just lightly rub with mineral oil for now. The experts can tell you if it's worth restoring. Can be as much as $100+ per inch to polish properly. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 1:49:46 PM EDT
[#23]
As someone with potentially up to a $1500ish budget looking for their first sword, and is completely overwhelmed by the verbage and everything.
I see something like this and wonder why its only $750 when its got the paperwork and koshirae vs other seemingly similar swords from the same era that are 3 or 4k. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 2:04:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#24]
-nm
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Posted: 12/14/2023 2:04:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fushaw: As someone with potentially up to a $1500ish budget looking for their first sword, and is completely overwhelmed by the verbage and everything. I see something like this and wonder why its only $750 when its got the paperwork and koshirae vs other seemingly similar swords from the same era that are 3 or 4k. Keep in mind, there's still over four days left on that auction. It's definitely going to sell for over $1K. But, you might be able to get this for under $1500, depending on bids. The fact that three different people have bid already might mean that it's going to be a bit of a bidding war - in which case it could easily go above $1500, and might even end up above $2000. It's a very nice blade. Koto (from the warring states period), with an intact signature, in nice polish and condition, cool hamon, with very nice furniture and NBTHK paperwork. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 3:53:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DaveM4P99: Post pics here and I can post pics over on the Nihonto message boards. Those guys are true experts and can probably attribute your blade to a swordsmith and time period. Take clear photos of the tang and signature, and the tip, and the whole blade! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DaveM4P99: Post pics here and I can post pics over on the Nihonto message boards. Those guys are true experts and can probably attribute your blade to a swordsmith and time period. Take clear photos of the tang and signature, and the tip, and the whole blade! Definitely do this. There are some serious experts over at the Nihonto Message boards, and DaveM4P99 knows how to navigate the site. Don't try to polish or remove rust. Just lightly rub with mineral oil for now. The experts can tell you if it's worth restoring. Can be as much as $100+ per inch to polish properly. Agreed. Because swords "from" WW2 can vary enormously, from wartime production that is not traditionally made, all the way to very old family swords that were used in the war - it can be very difficult to tell without and expert opinion. Obviously you don't want to spend many thousands of dollars having a sword restored if it's only worth $1200 ... unless of course it has sentimental value. But spending several thousand dollars to restore a blade that might be worth tens of thousands is a bit of a no-brainer. So an expert opinion is definitely worthwhile. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 5:36:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Keep in mind, there's still over four days left on that auction. It's definitely going to sell for over $1K. But, you might be able to get this for under $1500, depending on bids. The fact that three different people have bid already might mean that it's going to be a bit of a bidding war - in which case it could easily go above $1500, and might even end up above $2000. It's a very nice blade. Koto (from the warring states period), with an intact signature, in nice polish and condition, cool hamon, with very nice furniture and NBTHK paperwork. One more question. On the blades that just come in the shirasaya. If you want to have furniture made, it looks like a lot of people are buying the tsuba, menuki, etc from the correct era and then paying someone to make Koshirae (since the dimensions of the sword are unique per blade)? |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 9:00:01 PM EDT
[#28]
This is an example of buying a blade, and then having koshiray made.
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Like I said above, it all depends on what you are looking for. If you want a high quality wakizashi (short sword) made in the 1600s, in excellent condition and with official paperwork, then sure, that can be found. The example of the blade I just got from Japan that I only paid $1350 for is a great example. If you want a katana, it's going to be harder to find something for around $1500, but can be done. It might take longer to find, and it may not have official paperwork, but it's probably possible. Sometimes, you find REALLY good deals. As an example, I bought this sword for under $900. It was listed on ebay by one of the dealers I mentioned above, but the description was incorrect. He listed it as a wakizashi, but the pictures were clearly of a katana. Plus, it has WW-2 furniture, so it could have been a shitty WW-2 blade. But, I rolled the dice and bid on it, and got it for $880 (including shipping). It turns out to be a katana from the late Muromachi period, around 1530 to 1550 (Tenmon). It is signed by Norimitsu, who is ranked Jo-Saku (“Superior” 3/5) by Fujishiro and who worked in Bizen (one of the classic five Koto schools). The blade has a cutting edge of 66.5cm, and quite a deep curve of 2.2 cm. It has a very classic Muromachi shape, and a quite long kissaki. The blade has not been shortened, and has only one mekugi ana, so this is a very “original” Muromachi blade from the Sengoku (warring states) period. So this is an intact Muromachi-period blade, with signature - and I got it for less than $900.  https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/1715/small1-998797.jpg ... Of course, because I am an idiot, I couldn't leave good enough alone. The furniture was clearly just some garbage furniture someone had found, and didn't really fit the sword very well. So I decided to have new furniture made. I had some REALLY nice fittings from the 1600-1700s, that I wasn't using for anything, so I figured I would have new furniture made using those fittings. THEN, I decided that if I was going to have new furniture made, it would be appropriate to have the polish on the blade touched up - the polish was okay, but it could be better. So I got on a polisher's waiting list, and after about a year and a half, he put a new "finish" polish on the blade (which cost about $900), and then I had the new furniture made (which cost about $1700). So, it was a SCREAMING deal at $880 - but once I got done with the polish and the new furniture, it ended up being around $3500 (not counting the cost of the fittings) Still, it is now very pretty. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/1715/IMG_20190629_163947-998798.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/1715/IMG_20190629_164004-998799.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/1715/IMG_20190629_164019-998800.jpg |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 1:38:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: This is an example of buying a blade, and then having koshiray made. This is excellent. I’d love to go this route honestly. I bought one of the books on Japanese swords mentioned in the Nihinto FAQ page to try and get my head around the terms. The more I think about it, if I got a wak to start, I’d always list after a katana later. Not sure about vice versa. Time to start looking ideally for: Katana 1600s or earlier (ideally) With paperwork and signature. This might set me back a bit more so I’ll have to start doing research on what’s out there and keep my eye on various sites. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2023 1:47:31 AM EDT
[#30]
why did you all have to bump this!
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Posted: 12/15/2023 10:55:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong: why did you all have to bump this! lol 
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Posted: 12/15/2023 11:04:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fushaw: This is excellent. I’d love to go this route honestly. I bought one of the books on Japanese swords mentioned in the Nihinto FAQ page to try and get my head around the terms. The more I think about it, if I got a wak to start, I’d always list after a katana later. Not sure about vice versa. Time to start looking ideally for: Katana 1600s or earlier (ideally) With paperwork and signature. This might set me back a bit more so I’ll have to start doing research on what’s out there and keep my eye on various sites. They definitely like to multiply. I agree that if you get a wak, you will eventually want a katana as well. Of course, once you get a katana, you will probably talk yourself into a wak anyway. I would say that if you take your time, you can find something very nice (papered katana from 1500s or 1600s in nice furniture) in the $2000-$3000 range. I would recommend bookmarking and checking the various dealers on eBay that I listed in the OP. After a while, as you see how much swords that meet your criteria sell for, you can get an idea of the price range you will be in, and start planning. It'll also be useful to see how relaxing one of your criteria lowers the price. For example, a number of katana may no longer have signatures, due to being shortened at some point - and so an intact signature will likely raise the price. For me, a signature is a "nice to have" but not "have to have" if the blade is papered. One of my favorite swords is my Munemichi blade from around 1660. It doesn't have a signature, but the paperwork specifically attributes it to Munemichi, so the lack of a signature doesn't bother me too much. Of course, sometimes the paperwork for unsigned blades attributes a blade to a school, but not a specific smith. ETA: Here's a blade that recently sold from the same ebay seller you are looking at. It is a katana-length sword, that is beautiful and in great condition, and comes with a really nice koshirae. It is unusual because it has TWO sets of NBTHK - one for the blade, and one for the koshirae. (NBTHK mostly rates blades, but they can also rate fittings and furniture, if it's very nice). https://www.ebay.com/itm/145409447805 This sold for just over $2200. That's a pretty good deal, IMO. Now, the "downside" to this sword is that although it is a katana, it is a the very short end at 62cm. As a general rule, for a katana, most people prefer lengths of 68cm or greater, and over 70cm is particularly desirable. Of course, longer blades tend to be more expensive as a result. So once again, it's a trade-off. If you do not care about length that much, then there will be more options and it will be less costly. If you really want a blade on the longer end, then there's going to be less choice and it's going to be more expensive. |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 11:20:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: They definitely like to multiply. I agree that if you get a wak, you will eventually want a katana as well. Of course, once you get a katana, you will probably talk yourself into a wak anyway. I would say that if you take your time, you can find something very nice (papered katana from 1500s or 1600s in nice furniture) in the $2000-$3000 range. I would recommend bookmarking and checking the various dealers on eBay that I listed in the OP. After a while, as you see how much swords that meet your criteria sell for, you can get an idea of the price range you will be in, and start planning. It'll also be useful to see how relaxing one of your criteria lowers the price. For example, a number of katana may no longer have signatures, due to being shortened at some point - and so an intact signature will likely raise the price. For me, a signature is a "nice to have" but not "have to have" if the blade is papered. One of my favorite swords is my Munemichi blade from around 1660. It doesn't have a signature, but the paperwork specifically attributes it to Munemichi, so the lack of a signature doesn't bother me too much. Of course, sometimes the paperwork for unsigned blades attributes a blade to a school, but not a specific smith. ETA: Here's a blade that recently sold from the same ebay seller you are looking at. It is a katana-length sword, that is beautiful and in great condition, and comes with a really nice koshirae. It is unusual because it has TWO sets of NBTHK - one for the blade, and one for the koshirae. (NBTHK mostly rates blades, but they can also rate fittings and furniture, if it's very nice). https://www.ebay.com/itm/145409447805 This sold for just over $2200. That's a pretty good deal, IMO. Now, the "downside" to this sword is that although it is a katana, it is a the very short end at 62cm. As a general rule, for a katana, most people prefer lengths of 68cm or greater, and over 70cm is particularly desirable. Of course, longer blades tend to be more expensive as a result. So once again, it's a trade-off. If you do not care about length that much, then there will be more options and it will be less costly. If you really want a blade on the longer end, then there's going to be less choice and it's going to be more expensive. I've got all of the pages bookmarked and I'm reading and learning a bit more each day. If a blade is unsigned but has the paperwork attribution to a koto-era smith, I'd let that slide as it seems the NBTHK people will know more than I will ever know! |
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Posted: 12/20/2023 1:28:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Looks like there is a huge annual antique arms and swords show in Vegas with a huge showing from Japanese sword lovers across the country next month. It’s the same week as SHOT show so I’ll be down in Vegas and hopefully get my hands on some real blades before committing to any purchase.
Antique Arms Show Vegas 2024 |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 5:02:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Autarkis]
[#35]
There's a animated show on Netflix that's really good. The sword smith scenes keep making me think of this thread.
Blue Eye Samurai  Blue Eye Samurai | Hammerscale | Full Episode | Netflix |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 11:42:52 PM EDT
[#36]
I think this blade.is pretty nice, and might be a good opportunity.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/145518367874 |
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Posted: 12/29/2023 6:20:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Hey, how about Japanese Armor?
I just got an armor stand... now I need something to put on it. I'd like to get some Samurai armor. Reproduction, not real antique... That I can actually wear. Also what type of garments would be worn under the armor? I'll need to get a set of those too. My limited google searches have turned up a few options but I have no idea if they're worth it... Hoping someone can point me to decent quality so I can get an idea on prices. I mean I've seen prices ranging from $3,000 to $12,000... from the first few sites that show up on google... But I'm concerned those may be ripoffs. I need to find someone with experience with armors to advise me. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 9:30:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#38]
Here's an example of a FANTASTIC deal. This is an auction that ended, so we can see what it sold for.
This is a Koto-era blade from the warring states period (so mid 1500s) It is a katana-length blade, so a full-size sword. At 66cm, it's not super-long, but it's also not super-short. The overall shape is very nice. It is in great condition and nice polish. It has a very nice hamon. It comes with very nice furniture. It comes with a resting sheath (shirasaya) for storing the blade. It has official paperwork from NBTHK. It does not have a signature, but is attributed to a specific smith. All of this for $1750 shipped. That is an incredible deal!!! https://www.ebay.com/itm/134895324294 |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:07:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Away foul temptor!
I'm planning on blowing my life savings on one of Mark Knopfler's guitars this month I can't be distracted by Japanese swords right now! |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 1:05:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fushaw]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Away foul temptor! I'm planning on blowing my life savings on one of Mark Knopfler's guitars this month I can't be distracted by Japanese swords right now! How many guitars in the auction? I remember the Gilmour auction was way out of any league I pretend to be in. I’ll stick with my custom shop relic strat. Back to swords, I’ll be at the Vegas show later this week to see a bunch of swords in person and who knows what may or may not follow me home. So far I’ve picked up 3 books and have 2 more Sesko books on the way (koto and Shinto kantei books). |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:27:39 AM EDT
[#41]
@DK-Prof
I noticed a number of the sellers on the ebay pages mentioned that the registration card is retained in Japan, but they send a copy. I was wondering what the purpose behind retaining the registration card is? I also noticed that if you place a sword on your watchlist, there is a possibility that the seller may send an offer for a price lower than the original list. I've gotten 2 seller offers that were roughly 12% lower than the listed sale price. I'm only dreaming and drooling at this point, so I haven't pursued anything any further than watching an item. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 7:00:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dino]
[#42]
does anyone know how much it would cost to refurb a sword?
My Grandfather had a wakizashi, I think it was from the 1400s, that he brought back from WWII. After he died, it disappeared and one of my white trash cousins stole it. I found out and went over and paid him $100 for it. This was a very beautiful sword the last time I saw it (several years ag). When I bought it from my fucking shithead cousin, it no longer had a scabbard, pommel, etc it was just a blade with the tang wrapped in duck tape.... He's been using it like a machet to clear his land. The blade has some pits now as well. I'd like to get it restored, but I don't know what I need to do to do that or what something like that costs. I consider it a family heirloom, so I'm willing to spend a few grand to get it fixed, but I can't afford to spend 10 grand to do it. Hoping @DK-Prof has the answers. eta: slowly catching up looks like it will be expensive. I'll get some pics and see if the maker is still identifiable |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 10:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fushaw]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino: does anyone know how much it would cost to refurb a sword? My Grandfather had a wakizashi, I think it was from the 1400s, that he brought back from WWII. After he died, it disappeared and one of my white trash cousins stole it. I found out and went over and paid him $100 for it. This was a very beautiful sword the last time I saw it (several years ag). When I bought it from my fucking shithead cousin, it no longer had a scabbard, pommel, etc it was just a blade with the tang wrapped in duck tape.... He's been using it like a machet to clear his land. The blade has some pits now as well. I'd like to get it restored, but I don't know what I need to do to do that or what something like that costs. I consider it a family heirloom, so I'm willing to spend a few grand to get it fixed, but I can't afford to spend 10 grand to do it. Hoping @DK-Prof has the answers. eta: slowly catching up looks like it will be expensive. I'll get some pics and see if the maker is still identifiable Post pics of the entire blade, a closeup of any markings on the nakago (tang), and if you can capture the hamon (temper line) in the light depending on the polish. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 10:34:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kpel308]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Away foul temptor! I'm planning on blowing my life savings on one of Mark Knopfler's guitars this month I can't be distracted by Japanese swords right now! He'd be in pretty good company at my house. I'll never have an SRV signed guitar, but BB, SRV, Mark Knopfler, and Buddy Guy are my top 4 favorite guitarists.   No COA for BB's signed pick guard (can't find it, but I had it), and SWMBO was "dusting" with a damp rag Buddy's guitar while I was in Iraq (I had told her to not open the case and don't touch it) and wiped off the grease pencil signature. 😔 I hadn't had any intention to sell them, but the monetary value was completely destroyed. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:11:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dino: ... When I bought it from my fucking shithead cousin, it no longer had a scabbard, pommel, etc it was just a blade with the tang wrapped in duck tape.... He's been using it like a machet to clear his land. The blade has some pits now as well. This kind of stuff infuriates me.  In terms of restoration, if there are chips/pits, then it might be ruined, depending on how severe the damage is. (For examples, if a chip has gone through the hamon into the softer steel, then it cannot be restored). If it can be restored, it WILL need a full polish, because the edge will need to be reshaped. A full polish by David Hofhine (which is very high quality) is $100/inch - so it's pretty easy to calculate the cost. On top of that, you will obviously need new furniture, which could either be a simple shirasaya (storage sheath) or a full koshirae set. The latter is obviously more expensive, and fittings can get quite pricey. Fred Lohman does "restoration packages" which include polishing and new furniture and is a good value. The polishing is not as good as someone like David Hofhine, but is still pretty good. I think it's about $2500, but if you need a new habaki (which it sounds like you will), that's another $500. So you could get it fully restored for about $3000, and it would be decent work. Fred Lohman can also make you a shirasaya and habaki, which will probably run around $1100 or so. I don't think he has a "polish and shirasaya/habaki" package, but I am sure he will work with you. You can also combine the approaches, and get new furniture made by Fred Lohman, and then get it polished by David Hofhine. And of course you can customize things even more. For instance, you could hunt around for really nice old fittings and tsuba, and then have Fred Lohman make new furniture using older fittings, which is something I have done in the past. I would also note that IF the blade can be saved with a new polish, then don't worry too much about the lost furniture/fittings. If the blade was from the 1400s, then it is very unlikely that the furniture was original 1400's furniture. Most old blades like that will have had multiple sets of furniture over the centuries, so while the loss of a nice set (perhaps made in the 1700s or something) is a shame, the original set was likely long gone anyway. So having a new set made is not some horrible thing - it's something that was done all the time.
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Posted: 2/3/2024 12:49:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fushaw]
[#46]
Aoi Japan - Fujiwara Takada katana
This auction is worth watching for someone looking for a 70cm mumei (unsigned) katana attributed to a known smith group (Takada) from the early Edo period. (1600-1700). It is unshortened and has a nice gunome temper line. Starting price is ~$1600 and it comes in full koshirae with a NBTHK Hozon paper. Note, the auction timer is off by about 12 hours or whatever due to it being based in Japan so check the Japanese site and translate it to English to get the accurate countdown on the auction if you're interested. I'd be bidding on this if I didn't just drop $$$ on rebuilding my kitchen. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 2:35:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#47]
Something else to keep an eye on: www.ebay.com/itm/134914890663
I am guessing it will sell for well over $3k, but you never know. If it sells for less than $3000, it would be a he'll of a deal. It's a koto-era (1500s) katana in beautiful condition, with a fabulous hamon, paperwork, and a VERY nice length at almost 72 cm. Intact and signed nakago, and beautiful furniture. It's basically everything you could want in a Japanese sword, IMO. I am VERY tempted to see if I can get it, but I am resisting the temptation so far.
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Posted: 2/3/2024 2:58:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am VERY tempted to see if I can get it, but I am resisting the temptation so far. Would it help you resist if I said I was going to bid on it? I am not so feel free to, you know you want it. @DK-prof |
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Posted: 2/5/2024 1:24:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Something else to keep an eye on: www.ebay.com/itm/134914890663 I am guessing it will sell for well over $3k, but you never know. If it sells for less than $3000, it would be a he'll of a deal. It's a koto-era (1500s) katana in beautiful condition, with a fabulous hamon, paperwork, and a VERY nice length at almost 72 cm. Intact and signed nakago, and beautiful furniture. It's basically everything you could want in a Japanese sword, IMO. I am VERY tempted to see if I can get it, but I am resisting the temptation so far. Definitely going for over $3000 (getting close to $3500, with 4 hours left) - so someone might still get a good deal, but it won't be an insane screaming deal. |
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Posted: 2/7/2024 11:56:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#50]
Here''s an interesting wakizashi. From the early 1600s, signed and in beautiful condition. What makes it particularly interesting is the family crest (mon) and that it''s made from Western steel, which is pretty unusual. This is something that come up in a different thread last week, so I definitely wanted to mention this one.
www.ebay.com/itm/235420815554 @Notcalifornialegal - get your early 1600's Japanese sword made from western steel right here!
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