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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:17:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voodochild: If one were to come down towards SpaceX Texas to watch a SS Heavy launch where would be a really good place to view it? Isla blanca park. Be there when the gates open and bring cash for the gate. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:39:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJcdJD1bQAAMANV?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 I was going to say that reminded me of some WWII US production photos, but it's got that steampunk vibe and is definitely crazier! So it has to be Victorian. Isambard Kingdom Brunel approved!  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:50:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: woodsie]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voodochild: If one were to come down towards SpaceX Texas to watch a SS Heavy launch where would be a really good place to view it? My family stayed at Margaritaville and then walked down to the end of the beach to watch IFT2 back in November. It's a great way to do it. You can chill at the hotel until the countdown hits ~30 minutes or so and then walk on down the beach to the prime viewing location. There's plenty of room on the beach for watching the rocket so it's not like you have to fight for a good spot. You can show up at the last second and it's totally fine. Absolutely worth it. It's a bucket list item for sure. We booked the trip two days before the launch. Booked Thursday, flew down Friday, saw the launch Saturday. No problem getting flights or a hotel room even though IFT2 was HIGHLY anticipated.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:22:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
Static Test Fire successful at 1:12:17 CDT.  SpaceX Static Fires Ship 29 in Preparation for the Fourth Starship Flight |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 5:22:43 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 3/25/2024 5:44:26 PM EDT
[#6]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:12:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Houstons_Problem]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: I was going to say that reminded me of some WWII US production photos, but it's got that steampunk vibe and is definitely crazier! So it has to be Victorian. Isambard Kingdom Brunel approved! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13081/Robert_Howlett__Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel_-3169001.JPG Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:27:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: SpaceX is Art Deco. Not Victorian Steam Punk. Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. 
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:29:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: SpaceX is Art Deco. Not Victorian Steam Punk. Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. Art Deco was built on a foundation of previous styles. One of which was Victorian and definitely it's successor, Edwardian style. Also a major part of the plan is for the rocket to come back. Both parts of it. All have their place. That said I'm glad we aren't going full bore back into Brutalism. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:36:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: SpaceX is Art Deco. Not Victorian Steam Punk. Well, I was going to talk back on a number of points but that was so beautiful a single tear came to my eye. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:34:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: SpaceX is Art Deco. Not Victorian Steam Punk. Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. I've never gotten chills reading an ARFCOM post before. The age of Heroic Materialism has returned. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:46:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: SpaceX is Art Deco. Not Victorian Steam Punk. Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:14:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Not steam punk.
Not art deco. Bradberrian |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:41:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wangstang]
[#14]
Persec
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:51:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Art Deco was built on a foundation of previous styles. One of which was Victorian and definitely it's successor, Edwardian style. Also a major part of the plan is for the rocket to come back. Both parts of it. All have their place. That said I'm glad we aren't going full bore back into Brutalism. Trust me on this. All thoughts are GO. When the day comes that the engines are cut, the booster is maneuvered for the fall and the booster falls back, that will be the day our minds will be ready to have our second thought of the day. Land, baby Land. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:08:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: Well, I was going to talk back on a number of points but that was so beautiful a single tear came to my eye. I like steam. It's the engine that built and powered the world that built the rockets. Rockets lift us off that world. And when the day comes that rockets bring the steam engine to another world, that will be the day that world becomes a home. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:27:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: SpaceX is Art Deco. Not Victorian Steam Punk. Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Originally Posted By mPisi: I was going to say that reminded me of some WWII US production photos, but it's got that steampunk vibe and is definitely crazier! So it has to be Victorian. Isambard Kingdom Brunel approved! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13081/Robert_Howlett__Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel_-3169001.JPG Victorian steam power is bound to the ground and the oceans by heavy, thick, cast iron, blackened steel and warm bronze. SpaceX isn't meant for the ground. It is meant for the sky and is descended from the age of the Wright Brothers and Goddard. The age of flight. Gleaming stainless steel and large sweeping fins. Expanses of silver outlined in light absorbing carbon black. Pointy noses. Shapes of massive size and epic simplicity. All reaching only upwards to the sky. Power so great that it cannot be contained by brutal layers of thick heavy steel pounded by blacksmiths and joined by rivets or castings poured into sand hand shaped by foundry workers. Power that can only be survived by adding still more power. Power that begets power. Cryogenic fuel, gasses liquified by the power of cooling to cryogenic temperatures is burned and expanded through turbines that drive the pumps that feed the turbines that launch the rocket that moves ever faster because its biggest load is the fuel that drives it. Still more power pushes a deluge of water through stainless steel armor protecting concrete from being blasted to dust. Power of such intensity that lesser men are so frightened of it's immensity that they declare it not real. Power that shakes the ground and rips the sky open. Power whose sound isn't so much heard as it is felt as the shock waves of its gasses move the liquids in your veins, your brain and your spine. Your ears are unnecessary to hear the sound your shaking belly lets you feel. This isn't the age of empire and forged iron. It's the age of vertical acceleration. Wingless vertical flight. Welded skins and pressurized tanks, tongues of fire greater than the vehicle itself. When you watch that rocket go, the first thing you know, is it better keep going because you don't want it coming back. Everyone in the crowd, Everyone in control, they all think exactly one thing. Go, go, go. Someone's read Armor I see. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:57:33 PM EDT
[#18]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:33:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: Someone's read Armor I see. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:12:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Don't know what that is, but am curious. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Someone's read Armor I see. He made Connection and watched the gauge swell as he and his suit drew from the very heart of the ship the thing that seemed in awesome abundance everywhere: Power. Power throughout the ship for thousands and thousands of different uses. And even more power in the combined form of the Fleet. And even more from home. Power. Everywhere, sheer Power. Force. Might. He thought of the tiny sparks that moved and thought and eased more sparks together to form and ease more sparks, the strength of which would ease together still more, tinier, sparks which, in proper conjunction, made Power. The tiny sparks would then ease beside Power. And together, with awesome brute force and intricate silken precision, wonders would be created. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:56:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanPeople: Perhaps they place a drone ship out a mile or so and have the booster hover over it for TBD seconds to verify performance as if it were at the launch structure. After that it drifts over several hundred feet and ditches in the ocean. Why would they need a ship for that? |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:02:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Why would they need a ship for that? Visual reference of the performance plus if they use transmitters on the drone ship to aid the landing, that would be part of the landing accuracy. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:04:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: My point isn't that they can't figure it out but rather that the time it takes to figure out to precisely position it for a chopstick catch could represent a couple years and dozens of boosters and all for the sake achieving capabilities that at the moment are a bit superfluous to the missions that are right in front of them. The whole point of the chopstick catch idea was to remove the weight of landing legs and facilitate extremely rapid turnaround of ships (like hours, not days). I doubt the extra payload is a deal breaker for anything on their plate right now and the extremely rapid turnaround of ships relies on so many other things other than just having the ship back at the launch pad to the point that it could be decades out if it's even possible at all. I think they are wasting precious time if catching boosters and ships are milestones that lie on the critical path at this point between now and the dozen launches they are going to need for Artemis 3 or the scores of launches they are planning for the next generation of Starlink. The legs thing isn't just a matter of payload but also structural rigidity. The booster can take a much rougher landing with most of the structure in tension being caught. It also has a greater variance for pitch and yaw. Ship they may as well throw some legs on it to help prove out for lunar landing but then upper stage recovery is nowhere near as helpful to the bottom line as boosters. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:10:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Obo2]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I definitely agree with that. A crash and/or explosion at Stage 0/OLM would be a very bad outcome. But I am certain that's something SpaceX is preparing for, in that they are already building a second tower. I also imagine that once they get close to attempting a catch, they might even build some kind of mock-up - maybe just a tower with rudimentary chopsticks (that can open & close, but cannot lower or raise) - just to practice catches at first, so they don't risk a complete Stage 0. As others have pointed out, they will be able to do a LOT of testing with hovering and precise control of a landing booster or Starship without being close to the tower. So presumably they will only actually decide to approach the tower and go for a chopstick catch AFTER they have that level of control fine-tuned. Heck, they don't need to wait for a returning booster to do that. They can presumably fuel up a booster with just the tiny amount of fuel projected to be left after an ascent burn, boostback and re-entry, and then just launch that a few hundred feet, and play around with precise control and hovering. They could do that repeatedly without much cost or risk, and it would give them lots of data and experience. I agree it's ambitious, and perhaps not the optimal way to do it in these early stages. On the other hand, I'd hate to bet against SpaceX. I think it's eminently possible that they will accomplish a fast turnaround launch-catch-re-launch within this decade. Maybe not until late 2029  , but I think it's absolutely possible.We also need to remember that a rud on landing is going to be far less of an event than n1 or even a largely depleted ift 1/2. The idea is to be as low on prop as possible. They blew up plenty of ships in the suborbital campaign, it wouldn't be massively more damaging than the full power 33 engine launch. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:14:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: We also need to remember that a rud on landing is going to be far less of an event than n1 or even a largely depleted ift 1/2. The idea is to be as low on prop as possible. They blew up plenty of ships in the suborbital campaign, it wouldn't be massively more damaging than the full power 33 engine launch. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: I definitely agree with that. A crash and/or explosion at Stage 0/OLM would be a very bad outcome. But I am certain that's something SpaceX is preparing for, in that they are already building a second tower. I also imagine that once they get close to attempting a catch, they might even build some kind of mock-up - maybe just a tower with rudimentary chopsticks (that can open & close, but cannot lower or raise) - just to practice catches at first, so they don't risk a complete Stage 0. As others have pointed out, they will be able to do a LOT of testing with hovering and precise control of a landing booster or Starship without being close to the tower. So presumably they will only actually decide to approach the tower and go for a chopstick catch AFTER they have that level of control fine-tuned. Heck, they don't need to wait for a returning booster to do that. They can presumably fuel up a booster with just the tiny amount of fuel projected to be left after an ascent burn, boostback and re-entry, and then just launch that a few hundred feet, and play around with precise control and hovering. They could do that repeatedly without much cost or risk, and it would give them lots of data and experience. I agree it's ambitious, and perhaps not the optimal way to do it in these early stages. On the other hand, I'd hate to bet against SpaceX. I think it's eminently possible that they will accomplish a fast turnaround launch-catch-re-launch within this decade. Maybe not until late 2029 , but I think it's absolutely possible.We also need to remember that a rud on landing is going to be far less of an event than n1 or even a largely depleted ift 1/2. The idea is to be as low on prop as possible. They blew up plenty of ships in the suborbital campaign, it wouldn't be massively more damaging than the full power 33 engine launch. I think that would depend on how it failed. Some engines fire and manage to slow the booster down significantly before impact with the OLM....may not completely destroy the OLM (but still might) No engines fire and the booster hits the OLM at full speed....the OLM will be reduced to a hole in the ground. Quick google search says the booster weighs between 350k - 440k empty....during IFT-3 it was traveling at roughly 800mph when they attempted to restart the engines.....that's roughly 7.5 million ft/lbs of energy. The OLM will not be walking that hit off Presumably they'll have plenty of soft water landings under their belt before they ever attempt a landing at the OLM but if there's a failure, it's likely not going to be pretty.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 4:16:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Chokey]
[#26]
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:27:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: That said I'm glad we aren't going full bore back into Brutalism. Bah! Only the True Elite can properly appreciate the Festival of Concrete! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:23:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpanishInquisition: Not steam punk. Not art deco. Bradberrian When they land on Mars, Bradberrian Chronicles will begin. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:28:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Going to be interesting to see what the flight plan will be on this one.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:03:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41: Going to be interesting to see what the flight plan will be on this one. I'm hoping they aim it at Hawaii again, they hoverslam it right into DK Prof's property and he can sell us all chunks of it. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:12:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I'm hoping they aim it at Hawaii again, they hoverslam it right into DK Prof's property and he can sell us all chunks of it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By Dagger41: Going to be interesting to see what the flight plan will be on this one. I'm hoping they aim it at Hawaii again, they hoverslam it right into DK Prof's property and he can sell us all chunks of it. I am totally in favor of that!! 
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:34:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: It'll be good practice for the boring company.  . Also, I imagined some kind of concrete sleeve in the pit, to stabilize itI also figured that: (a) they already have huge pumps for the deluge system, so maybe those could be used to pump out water before a launch, and (b) if there's some water in the giant pit, that might actually HELP contain or mitigate a blast/RUD, so that may not even be a bad thing ... also not an engineer. No, but this is why engineers and rocket scientists need MBA's to guide them to success. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 9:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Obo2]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: I think that would depend on how it failed. Some engines fire and manage to slow the booster down significantly before impact with the OLM....may not completely destroy the OLM (but still might) No engines fire and the booster hits the OLM at full speed....the OLM will be reduced to a hole in the ground. Quick google search says the booster weighs between 350k - 440k empty....during IFT-3 it was traveling at roughly 800mph when they attempted to restart the engines.....that's roughly 7.5 million ft/lbs of energy. The OLM will not be walking that hit off Presumably they'll have plenty of soft water landings under their belt before they ever attempt a landing at the OLM but if there's a failure, it's likely not going to be pretty.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: I definitely agree with that. A crash and/or explosion at Stage 0/OLM would be a very bad outcome. But I am certain that's something SpaceX is preparing for, in that they are already building a second tower. I also imagine that once they get close to attempting a catch, they might even build some kind of mock-up - maybe just a tower with rudimentary chopsticks (that can open & close, but cannot lower or raise) - just to practice catches at first, so they don't risk a complete Stage 0. As others have pointed out, they will be able to do a LOT of testing with hovering and precise control of a landing booster or Starship without being close to the tower. So presumably they will only actually decide to approach the tower and go for a chopstick catch AFTER they have that level of control fine-tuned. Heck, they don't need to wait for a returning booster to do that. They can presumably fuel up a booster with just the tiny amount of fuel projected to be left after an ascent burn, boostback and re-entry, and then just launch that a few hundred feet, and play around with precise control and hovering. They could do that repeatedly without much cost or risk, and it would give them lots of data and experience. I agree it's ambitious, and perhaps not the optimal way to do it in these early stages. On the other hand, I'd hate to bet against SpaceX. I think it's eminently possible that they will accomplish a fast turnaround launch-catch-re-launch within this decade. Maybe not until late 2029 , but I think it's absolutely possible.We also need to remember that a rud on landing is going to be far less of an event than n1 or even a largely depleted ift 1/2. The idea is to be as low on prop as possible. They blew up plenty of ships in the suborbital campaign, it wouldn't be massively more damaging than the full power 33 engine launch. I think that would depend on how it failed. Some engines fire and manage to slow the booster down significantly before impact with the OLM....may not completely destroy the OLM (but still might) No engines fire and the booster hits the OLM at full speed....the OLM will be reduced to a hole in the ground. Quick google search says the booster weighs between 350k - 440k empty....during IFT-3 it was traveling at roughly 800mph when they attempted to restart the engines.....that's roughly 7.5 million ft/lbs of energy. The OLM will not be walking that hit off Presumably they'll have plenty of soft water landings under their belt before they ever attempt a landing at the OLM but if there's a failure, it's likely not going to be pretty.That's also why I said they will likely pull a maneuver similar to falcon where if the engines don't fire up it'll just smack in to the surf. If they do it'll correct to the tower. That way worst case you'll have a decent fireball but not much kinetic damage. You'd have to have enough engines fire up to perform the correction and fool the computer that they are nominal and then fail to get a bad impact. |
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Posted: 3/30/2024 5:34:07 PM EDT
[#34]
So...4/20, again, you think?
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Posted: 3/30/2024 5:38:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fulcrum-5: So...4/20, again, you think? We know Elon wants it. The rest of the company probably wants it too as an anniversary prize. |
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Posted: 3/30/2024 9:17:00 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 3/31/2024 12:04:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2024 12:07:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41:
That's a tall order for a company that's never managed to put so much as a coffee cup into orbit. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 12:41:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41:
lol |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 1:06:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: That's a tall order for a company that's never managed to put so much as a coffee cup into orbit. Not quite as true as it used to be now that BO's BE-4 engines lifted ULA's Vulcan to orbit. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 1:09:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: Not quite as true as it used to be now that BO's BE-4 engines lifted ULA's Vulcan to orbit. That's fair. BE-4 took a LOT longer than expected to be developed/delivered, but they seem to work fine. Hopefully New Glenn's first flight will be a success. It's exciting to see all of the cool stuff happening in space now. 
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Posted: 3/31/2024 1:14:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That's fair. BE-4 took a LOT longer than expected to be developed/delivered, but they seem to work fine. Hopefully New Glenn's first flight will be a success. It's exciting to see all of the cool stuff happening in space now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By Plumber576: Not quite as true as it used to be now that BO's BE-4 engines lifted ULA's Vulcan to orbit. That's fair. BE-4 took a LOT longer than expected to be developed/delivered, but they seem to work fine. Hopefully New Glenn's first flight will be a success. It's exciting to see all of the cool stuff happening in space now. Makes a very nice contrast with what happened in space technology between 1998-2008. Which can probably best be summarized as, “we give up.” |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 4:45:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Been binging "For All Mankind". Tons of "What if.....????" questions, knowing how badly things were squandered by politics, bureaucracy, and just plain stupidity in the 80's, 90's, and to date.
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:45:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AmericanPeople]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41:
I don't believe it. Where is the proof...not just a "tweet?" It won't be a high value NASA flight on an untried rocket. Not even Boeing is that stupid. Found it. NASA will launch a Mars mission on Blue Origin’s first New Glenn rocket "The first flight of Blue Origin's New Glenn rocket seems to have a payload. Instead of launching a sports car, as SpaceX did with its first Falcon Heavy rocket, Jeff Bezos's space company will likely launch a pair of Mars probes for NASA. NASA is aware of the risk of launching a real science mission on the first flight of a new rocket. But this mission, known by the acronym ESCAPADE, is relatively low cost. The Escape and Plasma Acceleration and Dynamics Explorers mission has a budget of approximately $79 million, significantly less than any mission NASA has sent to Mars in recent history. This mission will use two spacecraft to measure plasma and magnetic fields around the red planet. With simultaneous observations from two locations around Mars, scientists hope to learn more about the processes that strip away atoms from the magnetosphere and upper atmosphere, which drive Martian climate change. ESCAPADE is part of a new class of small planetary science missions in which scientists can propose concepts for modest probes to explore the solar system. The relatively low cost of these missions allows NASA to accept some additional risk. The agency wouldn't be comfortable putting a billion-dollar Mars mission on any unproven rocket. NASA says it got a good deal from Blue Origin on the ESCAPADE launch contract. Procurement documents suggest the deal is worth $20 million, a price tag that Smith said reflects the risk of launching on the first flight of a new rocket." I was right. It is not a high value mission. $79 million payload is nothing when it is taxpayer money. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:47:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: Not quite as true as it used to be now that BO's BE-4 engines lifted ULA's Vulcan to orbit. We are talking about New Glenn.....which is stupid naming. New X, New Y. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 7:01:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Log: Been binging "For All Mankind". Tons of "What if.....????" questions, knowing how badly things were squandered by politics, bureaucracy, and just plain stupidity in the 80's, 90's, and to date. Oh boy, do you have good timing in asking that question. Long and lavishly detailed answer.  For All Mankind successfully broke suspension of disbelief with the N-1 rocket ever working Short answer, no. Not even if Korolev survived into the 1980s was the N-1 ever going to work. Sea Dragon might have worked. But I doubt it and it would take some major freaky fear meltdown to get enough of the American public to agree to let a NERVA-Shuttle to fly. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 12:25:18 AM EDT
[#47]
The defacto standard place to watch a launch is from the jetties in the park. That said, you might get a tad closer on one of the charter ships. You can get closer from the Mexico side, if you don't mind going into Mexico to watch the launch.
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Posted: 4/2/2024 10:11:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: The defacto standard place to watch a launch is from the jetties in the park. That said, you might get a tad closer on one of the charter ships. You can get closer from the Mexico side, if you don't mind going into Mexico to watch the launch. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 8:00:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41:
Yeah...that's not gonna happen. |
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Posted: 4/3/2024 10:38:08 AM EDT
[#50]
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