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Posted: 3/15/2024 9:58:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Obo2]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobalt135: Venting does not mean fuel or oxidizer necessarily. There are long CO2 tanks under some of the strakes as you might call them on the booster, the long triangular shaped things on the lower 1/3rd. They are used for fire suppression in the engine bay area to purge out any flammable mixtures during the ascent phase in the areas of the engines turbopump and feed line area. There is zoomed footage (Everyday Astronaut/Cosmic Perspective) from IFT-1 that shows what appears to be fires in the area above the engines and also blowing out of the side panels in said compartments. One of the items on investigation report mentioned upping fire suppression capability before IFT-2. You would assume there is a similar system on the ship as well so whenever venting is seen, it could very well be CO2 and not explodey stuff. IFT-1 footage that shows the fires and such starting after 7:30. Make sure you select the 4K feed   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCYSVmSPM7EThere are various other reasons starship vents as well. Managing pressure, it vents o2 (maybe methane but not both at same time) through it's rcs system, just dumping excess. Neither the methane or o2 are particularly splodey on their own. Even mixed together or the methane in atmo it's rare to have the proper stoichiometric ratio for a detonation or deflagration rather than just conflagration. There's also nitrogen on board to help spin up raptors. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 12:08:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redoubt: "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now." Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redoubt: Originally Posted By AgeOne: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIqqSKvWkAA0zgL?format=jpg&name=small "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now." Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:02:20 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:14:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mort: In other news Aurthur Dent is wanted by authorities on charges of being a multiple mass murderer. Slartibartfast getting payback. |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:59:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:54:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Breakdown of some changes in the 4 months between IFT-2 and IFT-3 it seems like some good progress that was made relatively quick. While there are physical design changes noted in this video that was published before the last launch, and at this point seeing what data they may have gathered during IFT-3 due to the relatively solid Starlink data relay even during re-entry where there was not much data blackout due to plasma, you have to wonder what they will throw out there next? Software changes to address whatever happened during IFT-3 would likely come quicker than changes to hardware design for the next flight test. They have some older hardware revisions they might want to launch for testing sooner rather than later and hopefully they can accomplish that in the next few months just to see what the outcome is. Again, we wait on the FAA to shuffle feet for a launch license. Guessing May or June when that happens....?
 What Did SpaceX Change & Upgrade For Starship's 3rd Flight Test? |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:56:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cobalt135]
[#7]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:59:38 AM EDT
[#8]
 [4K Slow-Mo] Starship Flight 3 Supercut w/ Incredible Audio |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 12:41:31 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 3/17/2024 1:06:35 PM EDT
[#10]
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 7:08:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GI4lgw0WsAAWdFg?format=jpg&name=medium |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:00:24 PM EDT
[#12]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:43:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi:
Think how much trouble we'd be in if the United States were run by a foreign entity and we had onl- oh. Wait. Nevermind. 
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:57:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kill-9]
[#14]
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:06:30 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:13:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kill-9: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1769599161228296273 https://i.imgur.com/reE8Ftz.png 
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:45:29 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:02:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Any word about whether the FAA is doing a mishap investigation about IFT3?
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:12:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:17:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: Originally Posted By Chokey:
They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. It certainly increases the complexity. With Falcon 9 you have to have 1 complex system (the booster) to work almost perfectly to land....with Starship booster you have all the booster complexity plus the OLM system complexity. It's likely going to create some impressive failures before it creates an impressive success.....either way the videos should be awesome. 
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:18:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: That get's me thinking...will they need to run the deluge system while landing also? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. Doubt it. They're not lighting 33 to hover an empty tank. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:22:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Doubt it. They're not lighting 33 to hover an empty tank. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. Doubt it. They're not lighting 33 to hover an empty tank. If I remember right during the last launch they said roughly half (don't remember the actual number) would fire for the "landing burn" in the water. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:24:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: If I remember right during the last launch they said roughly half (don't remember the actual number) would fire for the "landing burn" in the water. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. Doubt it. They're not lighting 33 to hover an empty tank. If I remember right during the last launch they said roughly half (don't remember the actual number) would fire for the "landing burn" in the water. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:36:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Yes, they said the outer ring of fixed engines wouldn't light. That is probably because the outer ring cannot be restarted plus those engines do not gimbal. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:43:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HeavyMetal]
[#26]
https://spacenews.com/spacex-planning-rapid-turnaround-for-next-starship-flight/
Lots of good stuff in there. Especially from the FAA rep. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 12:52:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HeavyMetal: https://spacenews.com/spacex-planning-rapid-turnaround-for-next-starship-flight/ Lots of good stuff in there. Especially from the FAA rep. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:16:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: If I remember right during the last launch they said roughly half (don't remember the actual number) would fire for the "landing burn" in the water. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. Doubt it. They're not lighting 33 to hover an empty tank. If I remember right during the last launch they said roughly half (don't remember the actual number) would fire for the "landing burn" in the water. according to Felix from What About It? I think he says 13 were supposed to relight  SpaceX Starship IFT3 Aftermath: New Insights Paint Different Picture! |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:28:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: according to Felix from What About It? I think he says 13 were supposed to relight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFFyi9BYrv8Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: Originally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By woodsie: They need to rethink the idea of catching boosters and ships with the chopsticks in the short term to keep the project moving forward. That should be a future goal, not an immediately necessary milestone before they are able to recover and reuse ships. If they don't, they are going to have to keep dumping ships in the ocean until they are reliably landing them on a literal dime and that could take years. I don't know what the positional and rotational tolerance is of the chopstick system but I bet it's a lot tighter than a large concrete landing pad. Doubt it. They're not lighting 33 to hover an empty tank. If I remember right during the last launch they said roughly half (don't remember the actual number) would fire for the "landing burn" in the water. according to Felix from What About It? I think he says 13 were supposed to relight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFFyi9BYrv813 for the boostback and again for the deceleration burn, not sure if it would need all 13 to hover. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:47:42 PM EDT
[#30]
3D Animation synced up with video of starship's attitude throughout re-entry |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:55:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: 13 for the boostback and again for the deceleration burn, not sure if it would need all 13 to hover. Pretty sure its supposed to cut down significantly from 13 for the final stages of the landing burn. Dry mass of the booster is not far from the thrust of one engine so it wouldn't surprise me if they go all the way down to the 3 center engines throttled back. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 3:09:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray:
3D Animation synced up with video of starship's attitude throughout re-entry Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 3:15:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. Stainless steel as opposed to aluminum. The first and 3rd full stack flights seem to have been... unintentional? demonstrations that Starship is built like a Mac Truck. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 3:23:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. That has hopefully given them really good data on just how durable their stainless construction is. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 3:25:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JCoop: That's a good read. Thanks for posting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JCoop: Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: https://spacenews.com/spacex-planning-rapid-turnaround-for-next-starship-flight/ Lots of good stuff in there. Especially from the FAA rep. The comments from the FAA guy are definitely encouraging! 
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Posted: 3/19/2024 3:27:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: Originally Posted By DarkGray:
3D Animation synced up with video of starship's attitude throughout re-entry Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. Pretty impressive….kinda like IFT1 stack tumbling at speed without breaking apart….thing is obviously built like a tank. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 4:49:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Pretty impressive….kinda like IFT1 stack tumbling at speed without breaking apart….thing is obviously built like a tank. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By SilverBearX: Originally Posted By DarkGray:
3D Animation synced up with video of starship's attitude throughout re-entry Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. Pretty impressive….kinda like IFT1 stack tumbling at speed without breaking apart….thing is obviously built like a tank. Well…it is one.
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:09:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chairborne: Well…it is one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chairborne: Originally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By SilverBearX: Originally Posted By DarkGray:
3D Animation synced up with video of starship's attitude throughout re-entry Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. Pretty impressive….kinda like IFT1 stack tumbling at speed without breaking apart….thing is obviously built like a tank. Well…it is one. Needs more 120mm guns
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Posted: 3/19/2024 8:15:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Pretty sure its supposed to cut down significantly from 13 for the final stages of the landing burn. Dry mass of the booster is not far from the thrust of one engine so it wouldn't surprise me if they go all the way down to the 3 center engines throttled back. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: 13 for the boostback and again for the deceleration burn, not sure if it would need all 13 to hover. Pretty sure its supposed to cut down significantly from 13 for the final stages of the landing burn. Dry mass of the booster is not far from the thrust of one engine so it wouldn't surprise me if they go all the way down to the 3 center engines throttled back. That's kind of where I'm at. They were landing Starship with two lit initially and finishing with one if I recall. Hovering booster with just the three center engines is probably doable, if not overkill. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:30:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: That get's me thinking...will they need to run the deluge system while landing also? Good question. I think not needed, especially with the stainless armor everywhere. Perhaps it will run with a lower flow rate to provide cooling water only rather than the full deluge. Or maybe it's all or nothing so you would get full deluge. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:32:04 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: That's kind of where I'm at. They were landing Starship with two lit initially and finishing with one if I recall. Hovering booster with just the three center engines is probably doable, if not overkill. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: 13 for the boostback and again for the deceleration burn, not sure if it would need all 13 to hover. Pretty sure its supposed to cut down significantly from 13 for the final stages of the landing burn. Dry mass of the booster is not far from the thrust of one engine so it wouldn't surprise me if they go all the way down to the 3 center engines throttled back. That's kind of where I'm at. They were landing Starship with two lit initially and finishing with one if I recall. Hovering booster with just the three center engines is probably doable, if not overkill. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:32:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: Wow. Crazy it held up as long as it did with all that heat on the unprotected portions. I think it largely broke up due to a bunch of pressure up it's ass |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:01:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: The boosters and ships will be mostly empty so thrust will be much less than takeoff. Good question. I think not needed, especially with the stainless armor everywhere. Perhaps it will run with a lower flow rate to provide cooling water only rather than the full deluge. Or maybe it's all or nothing so you would get full deluge. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: That get's me thinking...will they need to run the deluge system while landing also? Good question. I think not needed, especially with the stainless armor everywhere. Perhaps it will run with a lower flow rate to provide cooling water only rather than the full deluge. Or maybe it's all or nothing so you would get full deluge. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:08:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: I think it largely broke up due to a bunch of pressure up it's ass The superheated plasma enema was not kind to it |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:31:16 PM EDT
[#45]
I suspect that eventually the final burn will be optimized as much as possible. That said, letting atmospheric friction do as much work as possible is probably the most efficient. The only real problem then is at some point efficiency will limit your options - if you start to late on the burn and things don't work perfectly - you are going to hit hard. Last thing Musk will want is to take out the launch tower.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:41:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That has hopefully given them really good data on just how durable their stainless construction is. I am sure that the first few Starships that reach Mars will be dropping squadrons of manned cyber trucks with crew served weapons mounted in the truck beds on Mars. The astronauts manning the cyber trucks will be mobile infantry popularly known as starship troopers. The purpose of the initial beach head landings will be to demonstrate prompt inner solar system strike capability to potential threats that will no doubt be watching. Cyber truck body panels and glass offering limited protection from projectile weapons as strong as current pistol calibers may not seem like much until you consider that is the heaviest armor available in any space based drop vehicle in the system. Basically to understand what is happening today all you need to know is that Elon Musk is a real life D. D. Harriman as foretold by Robert A. Heinlein and damn near everything is earily proceeding in multiple parallels with various themes from Robert A. Heinlein novels. None of it became easily apparent until Elon Musk finally started falling in line with the D. D. Harriman character. It's the only thing out of the modern era that isn't an absolute mess. The worst parts of the various messes are also proceeding as predicted by Ayn Rand and Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:43:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: The comments from the FAA guy are definitely encouraging! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:44:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Pretty impressive .kinda like IFT1 stack tumbling at speed without breaking apart .thing is obviously built like a tank. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:46:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Dude, please, the preferred nomenclature is battlestar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Originally Posted By fox2008: Pretty impressive .kinda like IFT1 stack tumbling at speed without breaking apart .thing is obviously built like a tank. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 11:09:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: I suspect that eventually the final burn will be optimized as much as possible. That said, letting atmospheric friction do as much work as possible is probably the most efficient. The only real problem then is at some point efficiency will limit your options - if you start to late on the burn and things don't work perfectly - you are going to hit hard. Last thing Musk will want is to take out the launch tower. F9 comes in so it will miss the drone ship and corrects at the last moment to land on it. |
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