Home Depot, Menards face lawsuits over lumber size description - 4x4 isn't really 4" x 4" - Page 4

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Home Depot, Menards face lawsuits over lumber size description - 4x4 isn't really 4" x 4" (Page 4 of 5)

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:37:08 PM EDT

[#1]

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So Joe Homeowner should hire a contractor to build a dog house?

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Huh, if only there were some other way besides paying a contractor thousands of dollars to build a dog house???

Let me think about this for a minute

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:40:06 PM EDT

[#2]

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The California Secretary of State sued Home Depot (or maybe Lowes) about this, and won (in a California court). The now have to .llabel all dimensional lumber with its actual size. 2 x 4's are now 1-1/2 x 3-1/2's. Plus, the store had to pay out a mega million dollar fine.

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Were I CEO, I would have notified the state and all workers that all stores were being permanently and immediately closed. Workers would be given their 60 days during which inventory would be loaded on trucks and moved to stores in other states.
And then file a counter suit against the scum feeding attorneys and plaintiff for Damages. I would think HD or Lowes has enough lawyers in house to keep them busy until they ruin these dirtbags lives and see the only way out is a dirt nap.

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:46:11 PM EDT

[#3]

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Whatever. It's still stupid. Wood dimensions are fucked. I think it's weird people like it. Just because it's been done that way for 100 years doesn't mean it's a good way.

If I get a piece of flat stock it's the size it says it is. I like metal.

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You must not buy a lot of pipe

Pipe makes lumber make a lot of sense

Tubing, on the other hand...

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:53:13 PM EDT

[#4]

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They should not be labeled anything but the true measurements.

It doesnt matter how long it has been wrong, it should be corrected.

ETA- not a menards, home depot etc.. specific issue. Should be law of the land.

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Half ton trucks should weigh exactly 1000 pounds.

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:55:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:57:15 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
So Joe Homeowner should hire a contractor to build a dog house?

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That's why there is a whole industry of people who do that shit for a living.
Lots of dickheads think building and remodeling is so easy until they fuck something important up.
Then it is someone elses fault.

So Joe Homeowner should hire a contractor to build a dog house?

If the actual size of 2x4's is going to cause him a burden, I guess he should.

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:59:32 PM EDT

[#7]

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Show me the .500 dimension on type L Copper 1/2" pipe

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Well coppers fucked too. Should be pipe.

Others are ok

wood is still the most fucked

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:03:28 PM EDT

[#8]

Those of us who actually bought and used the lumber will get two or three $5 off your next purchase coupons and the lawyers will get millions of actual dollars.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:09:21 PM EDT

[#9]

This is a slippery slope. If you are going to make them be exactly as advertised, it better not be more or less than the advertised number. Better have some tolerances...+/- 0.001" should work.

What about when I buy a 20 oz soda that will barely hold 12 oz in the cup, etc etc etc.

Like I said, slippery slope.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:15:02 PM EDT

[#10]

they should be sued over what they sell as grade lumber that aint, and kiln dried that aint...

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:18:40 PM EDT

[#11]

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This is what happens when DIYers get into shit they don't understand like industry nominal dimensions....

2x4's haven't been 2"x 4" since the 19motherfuckin30's.

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Some fucking lawyer came up a 1/2" short and wants blood.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:19:00 PM EDT

[#12]

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They're going to shit if they ever read a dimension chart for wide flange beams, actual depth can be more than an inch less or a couple inches more than nominal.

And don't look too close at your .38 Special bullets.

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My .223 shoots .224's!!!

ARFCOM group lawsuit, anyone?

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:21:37 PM EDT

[#13]

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Do you want the metric system? Because this is how you get the metric system.

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The metric system is a scam. There are only 10 eggs in a metric dozen,

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:24:54 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
This is a slippery slope. If you are going to make them be exactly as advertised, it better not be more or less than the advertised number. Better have some tolerances...+/- 0.001" should work.

What about when I buy a 20 oz soda that will barely hold 12 oz in the cup, etc etc etc.

Like I said, slippery slope.

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A thou tolerance on a product that changes size due to moisture content? LOL

On a serious note NIST and the NCWM have been coming up with a set of standards for measuring lumber.

Of course bringing up NIST, or that Lowe's lawsuit is the last thing these lawyers want, both of them will blow the case out of the water.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:38:17 PM EDT

[#15]

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Regardless--it's bullshit.

For those who know nothing--a tree is cut down and sawn into boards. Those boards are cut to exact size--2"X4", 4"X4", etc. They are then dried in a kiln to a certain percentage of moisture. During this time they twist, warp, and crack. The are then planed to dimensional size, which is what is sold--1 1/2" X 3 1/2" for a "2X4", etc.

It's been this way since transportation allowed such things to occur. In the long past you went to a local (very local if using a horse-drawn wagon) and bought a full 2" X 4" "rough cut" board because that's what was available. It wasn't dried and it ended up warping in most cases, especially if not nailed up immediately. The "good old days" weren't exactly "good" in many ways.

Edit: To further clarify, there is such a thing as "5/4 lumber"--pronounced "five quarter"--for instances where full dimension is needed. It costs more, but is available. It is rough cut to 2 1/4" X 4 1/4" then planed to a finished dimension of 2" X 4". This is most often seen on deck boards, where you need a full 1" board in order to not need so much structure underneath.

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So, devil's advocate here. Setting aside the notion of 'damages' which is silly but, since you know that you have to meet certain minimums from the rough cut board you either do as described in the edit, make allowance for that in the rough cut to meet the label of 2x4, or label the boards with the actual standard size that is the output of the process in the store even if it's just a secondary label. It's not some insanely difficult operation to do.

And yes, anyone that isn't new to the concept of hammering two boards together knows the dimensions are less than stated and to measure if it matters.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:47:16 PM EDT

[#16]

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And yes, anyone that isn't new to the concept of hammering two boards together knows the dimensions are less than stated and to measure if it matters.

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The majority of the population is now new to the concept of hammering two boards together, which is why the suit wasn't immediately tossed - because those making those decisions are also detached from reality.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:52:00 PM EDT

[#17]

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Is it 3.75?

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You probably melt their faces off if you tried to explain to them what the actual size #4 rebar is.

Is it 3.75?

weight

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:54:21 PM EDT

[#18]

I was just there this week. I need a board to put on top of the bedroom dresser. Because the new TV legs are too wide for it.

3'x10" is what I needed. I brought a tape measurer and the board was like 3'x9.5

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:54:35 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
The majority of the population is now new to the concept of hammering two boards together, which is why the suit wasn't immediately tossed - because those making those decisions are also detached from reality.

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Quoted:

And yes, anyone that isn't new to the concept of hammering two boards together knows the dimensions are less than stated and to measure if it matters.

The majority of the population is now new to the concept of hammering two boards together, which is why the suit wasn't immediately tossed - because those making those decisions are also detached from reality.

pretty much.

Posted: 6/22/2017 8:57:28 PM EDT

[#20]

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Meh

then leave the dimensions and call it a 1.5x3.5

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Oh yeah. It just rolls off the tongue.

Posted: 6/22/2017 9:13:10 PM EDT

[#21]

ugh... I'm going back to the cousin fucker thread, it's less retarded then this one.

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:02:21 PM EDT

[#22]

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Plaintiffs need a 2x4 shoved up their asses.

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I hope this is the decision the jury reaches.

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:11:14 PM EDT

[#23]

So can I sue since my .380 rounds are really .355?

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:11:19 PM EDT

[#24]

Quick, class action suit against ammo manufacturers for all the misnomer bullets.

I think it would be pretty easy to argue this one although depends on the label. If it is labeled 4x4 that is different than 4"x4". Name vs measurements

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:16:48 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
You serious Clark?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/06/21/home-depot-menards-lumber-size-lawsuit/415874001/#

MILWAUKEE — Two home improvements stores are accused of deceiving the buyers of four-by-four boards, the big brother to the ubiquitous two-by-four.
The alleged deception: Menards and Home Depot (HD) market and sell the hefty lumber as four-by-fours without specifying that the boards actually measure 3½ inches by 3½ inches.
The lawsuits against the retailers would-be class actions, filed within
five days of each other in federal court for the Northern District of
Illinois. Attorneys from the same Chicago law firm represent the
plaintiffs in both cases. Each suit seeks more than $5 million.
“Defendant has received significant profits from its false marketing and sale of
its dimensional lumber products,” the action against Menards contends.

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They're either idiots, or crooks for suing them. They should buy rough 4x4s if they want them to really be that size.

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:25:16 PM EDT

[#26]

Not this shit again. Fuckin' morons.

The dimensions listed are those of green lumber before kiln drying. The reason that this is done is because not all lumber shrinks to an exact measurement. A 2x4 is two inches by four inches after being milled. After being kiln dried it is usually 1.5 by 3.5.

Why come you got no tattoo?

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:25:58 PM EDT

[#27]

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Hardly. If you understood how it all works you wouldn't say that, and this lawsuit would be laughed out of court. This lawyer needs a swift kick in the nuts.

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It should say what it is and be what it says.

Lumber is built into a giant house of lies.

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Well it is false advertising...

Hardly. If you understood how it all works you wouldn't say that, and this lawsuit would be laughed out of court. This lawyer needs a swift kick in the nuts.

Or beat with a 1.5 x 3.5 stick

Posted: 6/22/2017 10:46:14 PM EDT

[#28]

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It should say what it is and be what it says.

Lumber is built into a giant house of lies.

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LIES! He cries!

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:01:25 PM EDT

[#29]

Haha, even on HD or Lowes web sites you can look at reviews of products where idiots complain about parts not being the nominal sizes listed. Look up a 3/8" romex connector "1 star, this is NOT 3/8 inch, sent it back and ordered another one, hopefully they get it right". LOL.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:06:31 PM EDT

[#30]

.38/.357 mind blown!

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:13:47 PM EDT

[#31]

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.38/.357 mind blown!

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Like people that don't know lumber have guns.

I am kinda surprised caliber threads don't come up around here. Or I miss them.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:26:42 PM EDT

[#32]

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I've always thought that anyone buying lumber knew how it was sized / measured. I guess not. Even though it's been that way for fucking ever. People are stupid, attorneys are sharks.

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no damn idea, i found out at home after my table was wonky.

Do you know the the average size of your common bile duct ( assuming no surgery)? I mean, you eat every day, right?

Why don't they have the lumber be that size (serious question)? Edit: nevermind, Beekeeper answered. Thanks.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:28:26 PM EDT

[#33]

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Nobody tell them about 2x4s.

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or 2x6 or 2x8 or 2x10 etc...

This has been the norm for years. You want rough sawn lumber in nominal dimensions go to a lumber yard!

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:37:28 PM EDT

[#34]

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Oh yeah. It just rolls off the tongue.

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Doesn't have to... just list the approximate actual dimensions.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:41:15 PM EDT

[#35]

What sucks is 8' lengths of 2x4s that are 96-1/2" long.

I rarely if ever need that extra 1/2 inch. You know what a PITA it is to take 1/2" off?

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:43:11 PM EDT

[#36]

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What sucks is 8' lengths of 2x4s that are 96-1/2" long.

I rarely if ever need that extra 1/2 inch. You know what a PITA it is to take 1/2" off?

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Have you contacted an attorney? Get paid.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:48:10 PM EDT

[#37]

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Have you contacted an attorney? Get paid.

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What sucks is 8' lengths of 2x4s that are 96-1/2" long.

I rarely if ever need that extra 1/2 inch. You know what a PITA it is to take 1/2" off?

Have you contacted an attorney? Get paid.

Home Depot will likely charge me for that extra 1/2". Maybe accuse me of shoplifting.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:50:24 PM EDT

[#38]

My 1930's era house has full dimension redwood 2x4's.

Posted: 6/23/2017 12:14:02 AM EDT

[#39]

I want to beat them with a clue by four, but I'm not sure how big that is.z

Posted: 6/23/2017 12:28:56 AM EDT

[#40]

Changed over time too.
I was in Jr.High shop classes in 1959-61. In 1959, from when I don't know, a 2x4 was 1 3/4 x 3 3/4. In 1960 they changed to 1 5/8 x 3 5/8.I remember it being discussed in class. Some where later it changed to the current 1 1/2 x 3 1/2.

I suspect it had something to do with the quality of lumber and how it shrunk and warped. Back then most 2 by's were hard yellow pine, not the 'whitewood' sold today.

Posted: 6/23/2017 1:14:57 AM EDT

[#41]

This is why McDingus has to say their
Quarter Pounder is *pre-cooked weight.

Too many fucking lawyers.

Posted: 6/23/2017 1:48:04 AM EDT

[#42]

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Quoted:
Regardless--it's bullshit.

For those who know nothing--a tree is cut down and sawn into boards. Those boards are cut to exact size--2"X4", 4"X4", etc. They are then dried in a kiln to a certain percentage of moisture. During this time they twist, warp, and crack. The are then planed to dimensional size, which is what is sold--1 1/2" X 3 1/2" for a "2X4", etc.

It's been this way since transportation allowed such things to occur. In the long past you went to a local (very local if using a horse-drawn wagon) and bought a full 2" X 4" "rough cut" board because that's what was available. It wasn't dried and it ended up warping in most cases, especially if not nailed up immediately. The "good old days" weren't exactly "good" in many ways.

Edit: To further clarify, there is such a thing as "5/4 lumber"--pronounced "five quarter"--for instances where full dimension is needed. It costs more, but is available. It is rough cut to 2 1/4" X 4 1/4" then planed to a finished dimension of 2" X 4". This is most often seen on deck boards, where you need a full 1" board in order to not need so much structure underneath.

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Bullshit. have you seen the wet mess that HD sells off as "wood" ? there isnt shit there thats kiln dried. fucking puddles under the first layer of wood on the stack and you have to toss 25 to the side to find one semi straight one.

Posted: 6/23/2017 1:59:33 AM EDT

[#43]

the builder said we had 2x6 exterior walls. I'm going to have to open a wall and check now.

Posted: 6/23/2017 2:33:20 AM EDT

[#44]

Fuck it, start selling it by the pound in random sizes.

Posted: 6/23/2017 8:57:20 PM EDT

[#45]

Already been done. Marin County, Ca already done this. Can't even do " or ' either.

Posted: 6/23/2017 9:05:54 PM EDT

[#46]

All lumber has been this way for a long time. Suing because you are an ignorant jackass who does not understand anything is stupid. Oh well, off to sue a car because my 6.0 is not precisely 6.0 liters, and my internet provider about bandwidth, and all of the restaurants because the calorie counts are not exactly what they say, and my electric company because I am only getting 113V at 59.5hz

Posted: 6/23/2017 9:06:16 PM EDT

[#47]

fucking ambulance chasers. We really, really need Tort reform in this country

Posted: 6/23/2017 9:28:40 PM EDT

[#48]

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You probably melt their faces off if you tried to explain to them what the actual size #4 rebar is.

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1/2" too easy.

Posted: 6/23/2017 9:43:12 PM EDT

[#49]

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It has happened a few times over the last 100+ years, the key is, "Dimensional Lumber" the rough product starts out at the actual dimension, then is milled to industry standard, which is 3.5 x 3.5 or 1.5 x 3.5, it is the basis for all the building that has been done in this country for well over 100 years. HD and Menards has not derived any extra profits because they advertise and sell what the industry standard are based on and milled to.

All the parts for building are based on this standard, to change everything this many years later is cost prohibitive and has been the basis for many of these lawsuits being overturned in the past.

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It does not require the waste of 1/2" of wood in each dimension to make an actual 2X4 smooth enough to use. The mfgr gets more 1.5 X 3.5 boards from a log than he would 2X4s.