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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:49:57 PM EDT
[#1]
MAGA!
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:50:37 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:50:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Unpossible.
GD said so 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:51:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unpossible. GD said so 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:54:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Do we even have the tooling any more? DoD is infamous for destroying tooling when the program is over.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:55:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Pretty sure it would be faster and cheaper to just increase the development tempo of Gen 6.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:55:49 PM EDT
[#7]
They can consider it all they want. It would cost a metric shit ton of money and we're out. Half the Navy's air fleet is sitting on the ground awaiting repair funds.
Yes, I know. Abolish welfare, social security, medicare, medicaid, the national parks, federal pensions, the FBI, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny. Dear God anything to get more F-22's. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:57:09 PM EDT
[#8]
F22 was set up to be retooled quickly from what I have been told here. They went so far as to record each mans job in detail
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:59:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we even have the tooling any more? DoD is infamous for destroying tooling when the program is over. You could make something that looks like an f22, but it'd have all new guts and that'd cost more then we are likely willing to pay for and take so long it'd probably not be all that relevant. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:59:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
F22 was set up to be retooled quickly from what I have been told here. They went so far as to record each mans job in detail |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:02:16 PM EDT
[#11]
And as I always post in Raptor threads, the F-22 is damn near 30 year old technology.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:04:11 PM EDT
[#12]
We are 6 years past the shutdown of the production line.
It's not coming back. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:05:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And as I always post in Raptor threads, the F-22 is damn near 30 year old technology.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:05:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And as I always post in Raptor threads, the F-22 is damn near 30 year old technology. What's pathetic is the F-22 uses tech three decades old and is better than anything our peers will be fielding for the forseable future. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:05:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Does the airforce even want them at this point?
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:06:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the airforce even want them at this point? |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:06:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are 6 years past the shutdown of the production line. It's not coming back. I believe it. That settles it. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:08:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Limited time only with every 20 Raptors get 1 Battleship for free.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:10:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Buy 300 new F-15's as a stop gap measure as we await the F-22 replacement since the production line is still open. We need actual airframes to do the missions. Yes I know they're 2 seat models only but it's still the best thing available that's still being made
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:10:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Limited time only with every 20 Raptors get 1 Battleship for free. 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:11:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tooling for bending and forging the big metal bits will still be around. Those aren't the problem. It's the thousands of other parts that aren't made anymore by companies that don't exist that were staffed by people who have retired, changed careers or have other jobs to do. You could make something that looks like an f22, but it'd have all new guts and that'd cost more then we are likely willing to pay for and take so long it'd probably not be all that relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do we even have the tooling any more? DoD is infamous for destroying tooling when the program is over. You could make something that looks like an f22, but it'd have all new guts and that'd cost more then we are likely willing to pay for and take so long it'd probably not be all that relevant. 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:13:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy 300 new F-15's as a stop gap measure as we await the F-22 replacement since the production line is still open. We need actual airframes to do the missions. Yes I know they're 2 seat models only but it's still the best thing available that's still being made 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:14:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy 300 new F-15's as a stop gap measure as we await the F-22 replacement since the production line is still open. We need actual airframes to do the missions. Yes I know they're 2 seat models only but it's still the best thing available that's still being made |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:15:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Just speed up the 6th gen fighters... you know there are some technology demonstrators that have been out there floating around.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:18:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Congress can also consider enacting a law requiring that it never rains on holiday weekends.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:19:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the most practical, but we can't just sole-source something like this so we'll have to have a competition and a couple of protests followed by a general going to prison before we try again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Buy 300 new F-15's as a stop gap measure as we await the F-22 replacement since the production line is still open. We need actual airframes to do the missions. Yes I know they're 2 seat models only but it's still the best thing available that's still being made But, this does look awesome.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:22:01 PM EDT
[#27]
can Congress demand Ivanka to sleep with me?
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:22:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But aren't F-15s, aside from Strike Eagles, out of production? I'm sure they could do the air to air role pretty good as well, but then you need to train two crew members per plane. Which I'm going to assume costs a lot. But, this does look awesome.
http://militaryedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/f-15sa_4.jpg |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:22:31 PM EDT
[#29]
I love the Raptor. LOVE IT.
But, this layman agrees with increased funding and speeding up Gen6. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:25:13 PM EDT
[#30]
This is probably just step 1 in asking for increased funding for a new one.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:25:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But aren't F-15s, aside from Strike Eagles, out of production? I'm sure they could do the air to air role pretty good as well, but then you need to train two crew members per plane. Which I'm going to assume costs a lot. But, this does look awesome.
http://militaryedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/f-15sa_4.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Buy 300 new F-15's as a stop gap measure as we await the F-22 replacement since the production line is still open. We need actual airframes to do the missions. Yes I know they're 2 seat models only but it's still the best thing available that's still being made But, this does look awesome.
http://militaryedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/f-15sa_4.jpg |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:26:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone here, who is into all that aerospace stuff, said that they put the tooling in storage and saved ever bit of data related to building the things. Changes would be made to the jet design which would make the old tools obsolete in many cases; if an old tool was still appropriate, new ones would be built from released engineering. there's nothing magical about tooling; it's built from engineered designs ( 3D CAD models/ 2D drawings ), not built at night by the Keebler elves. F-22 isn't restarting. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:28:17 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:28:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unpossible. GD said so |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:29:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Over the last 20 years, DOD has evaluated future needs versus available resources and determined that it was less expensive to reduce F-22 orders, pay the resulting increased price per ship, and ultimately pay contract termination penalties, than to go through with the whole order and fly a fleet of that size through its projected service life.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:31:39 PM EDT
[#36]
F-22B, with avionics and LO upgrades from the F-35 program.
China is aggressively building 2 stealth fighters to counter the F-22 and F-35, namely the J-20 and F-31. Russia is building the PAK-FA, if India continues to fund it. Japan is building the Mitsubishi X-2 already. Turkey, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Sweden are all looking at design concepts for domestic production as well. All the major militaries of the world who keep track of defense capabilities have seen what the US 5th Gen fighters can do, even with limited displays operationally, and they know their Air Defense posture is severely threatened by 5th Gen. With China already flying 2 prototypes, everyone who is currently relying on 4th Gen in those regions has a fire lit underneath them to get the ball rolling. Traitors Gates, Barack Hussein, and McStain accomplished one of the main missions assigned to them by the Russian-Chinese-Iranian-Syrian Axis, which was to kill the F-22 production line. There's a reason why so many people went to the efforts they did to preserve the tooling and details of the program. With the right leadership team, we can make the next production model F-22 that will add new capabilities that the A model never had. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:31:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryThe last F-22 was delivered in April of 2011. We are now 4+ years beyond the "long" window analyzed in that study. Furthermore, in my opinion, that report was overly optimistic at the time of its writing.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:33:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the polls said....! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Unpossible. GD said so |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:35:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unpossible. GD said so 
Sure would be a great way to waste more money though... Shut it down early and restart it late... |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:36:20 PM EDT
[#40]
It's not a prudent use of limited resources.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:36:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they could do it though, and cost far less than the F35 per unit... https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufdipQqU2lhNA4g/giphy.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Unpossible. GD said so
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:36:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryThat was commissioned by my former neighbor.
He used to be a test pilot with the F-16 CTF at Edwards. He started out in F-4s in the Philippines. Ended up becoming the F-22 PEO many years later. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:44:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Has the US stopped fighter plane production? If not, what are we ordering more of?
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:45:19 PM EDT
[#44]
This thread reminded me that I used to love the YF23 and was really bummed when the F22 was chosen over it. Needs moar sexy YF23 pron.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:49:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Not so fast -
Restarting production of the F-22 stealth fighter would be "very expensive," the Air Force has found, and it has no plans for now to pursue it, Secretary Heather Wilson said on Wednesday.
Doing the initial work such as machining and tooling to get the production line ready would take about $7 billion to $10 billion, and then each Raptor would cost about $200 million, Wilson said. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 4:01:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are currently building the fly-by-wire Saudi variant Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But aren't F-15s, aside from Strike Eagles, out of production? I'm sure they could do the air to air role pretty good as well, but then you need to train two crew members per plane. Which I'm going to assume costs a lot. But, this does look awesome.
http://militaryedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/f-15sa_4.jpg |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 4:04:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Boooooooooooooo
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Posted: 6/21/2017 4:04:37 PM EDT
[#48]
... as much as I love the F22 Raptor, that is simply unfathomable for someone that spent his 35 years career in the business
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Posted: 6/21/2017 4:20:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tooling for bending and forging the big metal bits will still be around. Those aren't the problem. It's the thousands of other parts that aren't made anymore by companies that don't exist that were staffed by people who have retired, changed careers or have other jobs to do. You could make something that looks like an f22, but it'd have all new guts and that'd cost more then we are likely willing to pay for and take so long it'd probably not be all that relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do we even have the tooling any more? DoD is infamous for destroying tooling when the program is over. You could make something that looks like an f22, but it'd have all new guts and that'd cost more then we are likely willing to pay for and take so long it'd probably not be all that relevant. 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 4:21:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do we even have the tooling any more? DoD is infamous for destroying tooling when the program is over. You could make something that looks like an f22, but it'd have all new guts and that'd cost more then we are likely willing to pay for and take so long it'd probably not be all that relevant. |
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