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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:28:45 PM EDT
[#1]
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Have you ever ran a quality department for a small arms factory? Have you ever submitted rifles for government testing. Do you have experience in government aquisition? Some of us have...  |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:36:22 PM EDT
[#2]
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What does that have to do with CRANE and PEOs data on the M4 failures? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Have you ever ran a quality department for a small arms factory? Have you ever submitted rifles for government testing. Do you have experience in government aquisition? Some of us have... Second, if you did have experience with Crane or any PEO's you would know how things work. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 7:27:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Despite the silliness of the M27 concept at least it's far more useful than the Army's decision to spend a bunch of money on a stupidass pistol.
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Posted: 6/22/2017 11:32:21 PM EDT
[#4]
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100 rounds on a M4/416.  
I guess if the 100 rounds were all black powder it would look like that. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 11:42:12 PM EDT
[#5]
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Yes, I posted pictures a few posts up. They were taken by KevinB. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 11:58:04 PM EDT
[#6]
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I'll also add this. Two Broken 416 bolts. Both fired 25,000 rounds from a 10.4" variant. The Mk18 gets 3,000 rounds on a good day before it snaps bolt lugs. So the 10" 416 literally gets 8.33 times the bolt life of the Mk18. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk416-hk417-hq/40971d1459002362-hk416-bolt-broke-25k-round-count-acceptable-lifespan-fb_20160326_22_16_45_saved_picture.jpg MK18 is very overgasseed. M27 is going to struggle when suppressed. DI is without question a more versatile OP system and FN has all the barrel longevity issues answered. Full and open competitions will bring us to DI and good barrels. Win Win. 
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Posted: 6/23/2017 1:20:16 AM EDT
[#7]
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LOL you know who he is right? It's hilarious watching you attempt to tell combat vets who used the very weapon you jerk off over how it operates. This would be a great thread if it wasn't for your constant hk Ball licking |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 4:19:56 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 6/23/2017 7:44:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Ya know... these threads bring out good info... right up until Joglee over powers them with his incessant rants about him being right..
give it a rest... you're annoying.. you know you are.. you like to be, and it gets old... grow up. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 8:45:15 AM EDT
[#10]
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That was Marine Corp testing with Mk318 SOST for the M27. So if the M4 has a 3-6,000 round bolt and barrel life with M855 imagine what it is with M855A1. I believe I have heard the M4A1 bolt and barrel life is hovering around 3,000 rounds currently with M855A1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You've shot 20,000+ of M855A1 through an M27 and at 15,000 rounds it was sub 2 moa accurate? Show me. So if the M4 has a 3-6,000 round bolt and barrel life with M855 imagine what it is with M855A1. I believe I have heard the M4A1 bolt and barrel life is hovering around 3,000 rounds currently with M855A1. I've shot M4s for a bit, and never experienced the issues you claim at that low of a round count. It looks like you took the data points from 10.3" guns under a harsh firing schedule and applied them to the M4A1 to suit your own gross purposes. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 8:57:52 AM EDT
[#11]
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Is mk318 even 2 MOA capable? I've shot M4s for a bit, and never experienced the issues you claim at that low of a round count. It looks like you took the data points from 10.3" guns under a harsh firing schedule and applied them to the M4A1 to suit your own gross purposes. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 9:10:11 AM EDT
[#12]
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What does that have to do with CRANE and PEOs data on the M4 failures? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Have you ever ran a quality department for a small arms factory? Have you ever submitted rifles for government testing. Do you have experience in government aquisition? Some of us have... Wikipedia- Crane, Indiana |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 9:55:43 AM EDT
[#13]
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It looks like you took the data points from 10.3" guns under a harsh firing schedule and applied them to the M4A1 to suit your own gross purposes. It's not terribly different than trying to race a platoon of Abrams tanks for 24 hours at Le Mans, and then shitting on the whole Abrams program when they don't perform well. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 10:03:06 AM EDT
[#14]
I see a lot of people talking about problems that I don't encounter when I actually use my sbr.
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Posted: 6/23/2017 10:14:55 AM EDT
[#15]
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About time. Like I've been saying, replacing 249's with M27's only makes sense to me if the M27 is issued with >30 rd mags. And to the Surefire mag pusher, the only benefit I see there is the Surefire 60s would fit in (altered) mag pouches unlike the D60. But one massive problem there. The Surefire 60's aren't dependable for shit. D60 for the win. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 10:43:56 AM EDT
[#16]
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I see a lot of people talking about problems that I don't encounter when I actually use my sbr. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 1:30:59 PM EDT
[#17]
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He also needs to read a cleaning science book. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is mk318 even 2 MOA capable? I've shot M4s for a bit, and never experienced the issues you claim at that low of a round count. It looks like you took the data points from 10.3" guns under a harsh firing schedule and applied them to the M4A1 to suit your own gross purposes. Wait until they find out what I think about people who don't clean their weapons. GD's collective brain is going to shit its pants. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 3:06:21 PM EDT
[#18]
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Ever shot 25,000 rounds in a week with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I see a lot of people talking about problems that I don't encounter when I actually use my sbr. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:56:52 PM EDT
[#19]
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I see a lot of people talking about problems that I don't encounter when I actually use my sbr. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:20:52 PM EDT
[#20]
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The M27 magwell is not even surefire magazine friendly. Extremely tight magwell prevents it from seating properly and is a bitch trying to get it back out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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About time. Like I've been saying, replacing 249's with M27's only makes sense to me if the M27 is issued with >30 rd mags. And to the Surefire mag pusher, the only benefit I see there is the Surefire 60s would fit in (altered) mag pouches unlike the D60. But one massive problem there. The Surefire 60's aren't dependable for shit. D60 for the win. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 8:31:23 PM EDT
[#21]
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Can I get a amen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I see a lot of people talking about problems that I don't encounter when I actually use my sbr. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 8:44:18 PM EDT
[#22]
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We're getting over 15k rounds through a barrel before they need gauged and close to 20 by the time they're shot out. Nobody can remember the last time they saw a broken bolt. Obviously not possible. Germans said so. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 12:06:24 AM EDT
[#23]
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We're getting over 15k rounds through a barrel before they need gauged and close to 20 by the time they're shot out. Nobody can remember the last time they saw a broken bolt. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 12:12:58 AM EDT
[#24]
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experience |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 12:15:09 AM EDT
[#25]
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In all my years this pretty much mirrors my limited experience. I didn't know it could happen until I seen anecdotes on ARFCOM. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 12:23:27 AM EDT
[#26]
I witnessed one bolt break on a bog standard M4, out of hundreds.
Happens but not too often. If they're breaking all the time I'd say it's a sign of shitty QC. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 1:14:20 AM EDT
[#27]
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In all my years this pretty much mirrors my limited experience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We're getting over 15k rounds through a barrel before they need gauged and close to 20 by the time they're shot out. Nobody can remember the last time they saw a broken bolt. You guys need less experience shooting guns and more experience reading Joglee's gun facts. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 1:26:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Stepped back into this thread...
I've read just the last two pages and my fucking head hurts. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:28:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're getting over 15k rounds through a barrel before they need gauged and close to 20 by the time they're shot out. Nobody can remember the last time they saw a broken bolt. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:29:11 PM EDT
[#30]
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If they supply the newest M27 with the newest HK416A5 lowers, that issue should be fixed. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:33:30 PM EDT
[#31]
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Out of what guns? What ammo? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We're getting over 15k rounds through a barrel before they need gauged and close to 20 by the time they're shot out. Nobody can remember the last time they saw a broken bolt. You're wrong. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:58:02 PM EDT
[#32]
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Out of what guns? What ammo? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 5:03:46 PM EDT
[#33]
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Ill play. M4 both shorty and normal with M855 and Mk262. I always laugh when people think we switch barrels every 3-5K rounds. Gauging is there for a reason-to run that barrel to the end. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 5:56:31 PM EDT
[#34]
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Barrel wear is going to be very dependent on firing schedule. The hotter it gets the faster it erodes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ill play. M4 both shorty and normal with M855 and Mk262. I always laugh when people think we switch barrels every 3-5K rounds. Gauging is there for a reason-to run that barrel to the end. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 5:57:22 PM EDT
[#35]
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If you had to pick a couple examples, who do you think puts the most wear and tear on their rifles? 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 6:01:41 PM EDT
[#36]
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If you had to pick a couple examples, who do you think puts the most wear and tear on their rifles? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 6:13:00 PM EDT
[#37]
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Pretty much zero carbon enters the receiver on the 416 unless suppressed. If something gets in the rifle it's a quick 1 second wipe down and done. Barrel cleaning is the same between weapons. However internally unless you get something in it the M27 bolt and carrier can just be ignored. They stay spotless for thousands and thousands of rounds. Here's a comparison. 100 rounds on a M4/416. http://popgun.ru/files/g/2/thumbs/1457576.jpg http://popgun.ru/files/g/2/thumbs/1457578.jpg |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 6:26:09 PM EDT
[#38]
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Barrel wear is going to be very dependent on firing schedule. The hotter it gets the faster it erodes. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 6:34:06 PM EDT
[#39]
I've gotten a laugh out of it.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:06:46 PM EDT
[#40]
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Those guys in the 507th |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:15:11 PM EDT
[#41]
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Ever shot 25,000 rounds in a week with it? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:23:49 PM EDT
[#42]
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Once the safety science is settled for good, phase II is cleaning science. Wait until they find out what I think about people who don't clean their weapons. GD's collective brain is going to shit its pants. And a 2111 secret- not all of your weapons were dirty. The underside of the ledge on the weapons gate is blacked with carbon from lighters, so we can wipe a clean swab dirty and waste more of your time... And even though I was a one pump chump, I was a 3rd esch small arms repair tech with one deployment - I have only ever seen one bolt break in my time and it was after I was out and was on a les bare ar.... |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:09:12 PM EDT
[#43]
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Serious question - doing what? What does a shooting package look like that puts out 5k a day, other than mag dumps or full auto familiarity? I know the shooting packages and work ups are serious, but.... |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:45:03 PM EDT
[#44]
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Break-contact drill mag-dump bukakke... over and over and over again. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:48:30 PM EDT
[#45]
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That's sad in a way. In my mind I saw the use of 5 k a day to move the technical skill set so far ahead... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Break-contact drill mag-dump bukakke... over and over and over again. And the break-contact drills and movement with huge live-fire round counts have massive training value, it's just training different skills. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:11:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Thinking about it now, that 25,000rd shooting package may have been over three weeks. I never took the course, it was just talked about by some of the CSO's I deployed with.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:26:25 PM EDT
[#47]
That would make more sense, esp if split between primary and secondary.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:03:11 AM EDT
[#48]
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That would make more sense, esp if split between primary and secondary. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:09:47 AM EDT
[#49]
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Thinking about it now, that 25,000rd shooting package may have been over three weeks. I never took the course, it was just talked about by some of the CSO's I deployed with. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:15:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thinking about it now, that 25,000rd shooting package may have been over three weeks. I never took the course, it was just talked about by some of the CSO's I deployed with. They were reporting broken bolts and worn out barrels? |
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