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Posted: 5/24/2017 11:58:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would be right if you look to many holy books. If you look to science for what constitutes well-being for people. You would find slavery to be fairly low. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would like to own a plantation and sip mint juleps while slaves toil in the field to pay for my lavish lifestyle. Prove me wrong science. If you look to science for what constitutes well-being for people. You would find slavery to be fairly low. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 11:59:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why am I caring about the well-being of people? I know I care about myself and mint juleps. Why should I care about others? What does science have to say about that? |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:03:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're social animals. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:08:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote History
Thats really funny. No. I mean in practice. not the lunatic rantings of a guy who has never left the bosom of western christian civilization. I mean, you might as well show a Youtube video of John Lennon singing Imagine. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:08:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So were the Romans. They had slaves. As did every civilization prior to about 1800. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:09:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As do many civilizations today. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:15:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryHe's got Bill Maher on his trustees and advisory board for his Project Reason. The former head of The Secular Coalition of America was Edwina Rogers Patient Centered Primary Care Collaborative She served as the founding Executive Director of the Patient-Centered Primary Care Collaborative from 2006-2011, a Washington DC trade association, responsible for the national Patient Centered Medical Home movement and implementing the model around the US. She was a supporter of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), commonly called the Affordable Care Act (ACA) or, colloquially, Obamacare. Seems like a solid dude. Started down his "path" after experimenting with MDMA. One of his folks wrote the Golden Girls. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:27:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats really funny. No. I mean in practice. not the lunatic rantings of a guy who has never left the bosom of western christian civilization. I mean, you might as well show a Youtube video of John Lennon singing Imagine. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:27:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything good thing I have is due to God blessing me although I don't deserve any of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything good thing I have is due to God blessing me although I don't deserve any of it. The problem you and others have is with God. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:28:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Western Christian civilization, is that when we burned witches, killed/tortured people for apostasy, kept slaves? |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:29:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So were the Romans. They had slaves. As did every civilization prior to about 1800. We're social animals and are forced to be together. Having slaves wasn't good for human flourishing/well-being (especially for the slaves). It's a moral landscape. Once you grant that the worst possible misery for everybody forever is bad, it easily goes from there. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:30:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name that paradise where those things did not happen. People actually have to think. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:32:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
k. We're social animals and are forced to be together. Having slaves wasn't good for human flourishing (especially for the slaves). It's a moral landscape. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:34:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Today, where we've largely been reasoning our way about morality due to Enlightenment thinking. Greeks were doing similar things (Xenophanes, etc.). People actually have to think.  Bold Strategy Cotton |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:34:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name that paradise where those things did not happen. Revolutionary France Cuba North Korea China All founded in reason and scientific morality. Its easy if you try.  John Lennon - Imagine HD |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:34:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus also says "only the father knows", which kinda goes against the whole trinity thing (unless God has multiple personalities). |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:35:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Its so simple my 7yr old figured it out right after figuring out santa was BS. Im so proud of that kid!
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:36:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Roman state lasted for almost 2000 years (509 BC to 1453 AD). They had slaves, and lots of them. Western Civilization only gave up our slaves 200 years ago or less, and we are currently on the brink of collapse. All those migrants the elite are importing? Back in the day they would have been productive slaves, not voting for gibs me dat. Clearly, abandoning slavery is the downfall of our civilization. We should immediately re-adapt slavery. Yay science. Why are we on the brink of collapse? Is it because of the other more backwards Abrahamic faith? Also, even if there was a economic advantage, that doesn't say anything of the morality of the thing itself. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:38:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it's o.k. to kick out the foundation which built our civilization? And just hold and pray that our values don't change?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6XHcVd1Y0 |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:40:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's some post hoc ergo proctor hoc s--- right there. You actually have to show causation, not just correlation. I personally blame the lack of powdered wigs. Why are we on the brink of collapse? Is it because of the other more backwards Abrahamic faith? Also, even if there was a economic advantage, that doesn't say anything of the morality of the thing itself. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:42:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What foundation? We've largely been on a foundation of Greek and Roman thought, not Dark Ages and theocratic slave-owning thought. Our civilization was based on a move away from religion. Protestantism broke up Christian Shariah and then splintered into a gazillion pieces. What most people like about our civilization is based on the Enlightenment and reasoned thinking, not Dark-Age "burn the witch" thought. 
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:43:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its so simple my 7yr old figured it out right after figuring out santa was BS. Im so proud of that kid! 
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:43:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, are you suggesting that science requires objective, repeatable, verifiable experiments to reach a conclusion? I wholeheartedly agree. That's why science cannot answer moral questions like why slavery is wrong. You can't put people in labs. Why/How do you think people came to the conclusion slavery is morally wrong? |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:44:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're seriously going to attempt to deny the role of Christianity in the development of Western Civilization? The Greeks and Romans already had similar morality to what was around at the time. It's not like they didn't know that murder or stealing was bad. Though they did have slaves, etc. It took Christians until the 1700/1800s to start figuring out slavery was bad. There's not one time you point to and grasp onto, people actually have to think. It's a moral landscape. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:51:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Why does He bother with us at all?
He could have easily destroyed every single atom of His creation and started over with perfect beings and no Satan to foul it up. Christ the creator God loves His creation as does God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. They love the unloveable and want us back in the fold which is why Christ died for us...to restore us to the Father and Himself... A finite mind programed by sin cannot reason it out...anymore than an amoeba could explain the theory of relativity....in the fact the amoeba would be more likely. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 1:06:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why does He bother with us at all? He could have easily destroyed every single atom of His creation and started over with perfect beings and no Satan to foul it up. And if God actually is omniscient, why did he create Satan, knowing that Satan would foul it up? |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 1:06:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Science can and will continue to tell more about what constitutes human flourishing and well-being. You can very much put people in labs (see neuroscience, etc.). Once you grant that the worst possible misery for everybody forever is bad, it's not that far from saying slavery is wrong. Why/How do you think people came to the conclusion slavery is morally wrong? |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 1:12:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mercy is letting billions of people suffer forever? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I beg to differ. He is merciful, full of grace, kind, and loving. Satan is your enemy, not God. It seems Satan has blinded you to the truth. That's what he does. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 2:03:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Why do all the atheists flock to these threads about God? It's like ya'll are more obsessed about him than believers.
Also, why do the atheists feel like they can answer questions on the nature of something that they believe doesn't even exist? OP: "Why does God allow it?" What the atheist's answer should be: "I don't believe in God so I can offer ZERO relevant insight into this discussion." |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 2:10:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do all the atheists flock to these threads about God? It's like ya'll are more obsessed about him than believers. Also, why do the atheists feel like they can answer questions on the nature of something that they believe doesn't even exist? OP: "Why does God allow it?" What the atheist's answer should be: "I don't believe in God so I can offer ZERO relevant insight into this discussion." |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 2:16:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do all the atheists flock to these threads about God? It's like ya'll are more obsessed about him than believers. Also, why do the atheists feel like they can answer questions on the nature of something that they believe doesn't even exist? OP: "Why does God allow it?" What the atheist's answer should be: "I don't believe in God so I can offer ZERO relevant insight into this discussion." You win the internet!! And, for the people that do believe, they also believe the answer to these questions will be answered when they meet their maker. Why would they let some arbitrary reasoning from a NON BELIEVER get their panties in a wad? 
ETA: I have always held the opinion that if a so called Christian or believer of any faith or religion lets a nonbeliever get under their skin and causes them to question their faith then they were not true to their faith to begin with. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 2:17:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Could it be that God does not give a shit?
Here he has this whole creation thing to deal with and peeps are all put out that he doesn't care about their particular ills. 
Simply put, God has bigger fish to fry. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 2:21:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Atheists understand God and Religion the way Chuck Schumer understands guns.
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Posted: 5/24/2017 2:21:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Or this could be a simpler explanation. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:05:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/91/c0/3a/91c03a483379c9f5818c4bd26eb58f17.jpg Or this could be a simpler explanation. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:14:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Partly because BR76 posts these religious-troll threads in GD, instead of the echo chamber/safe space that the Faithful have to themselves. Partly because "iron sharpens iron" as it says in your holy book, and lastly, because a lively debate can be a lot of fun, as long as the participants aren't nasty about it. Rustled jimmies are how both sides are able to test their positions, something more than a few of the Faithful are unable to do without colossal butt-hurt. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:23:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Truth. You win the internet!! And, for the people that do believe, they also believe the answer to these questions will be answered when they meet their maker. Why would they let some arbitrary reasoning from a NON BELIEVER get their panties in a wad?
ETA: I have always held the opinion that if a so called Christian or believer of any faith or religion lets a nonbeliever get under their skin and causes them to question their faith then they were not true to their faith to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why do all the atheists flock to these threads about God? It's like ya'll are more obsessed about him than believers. Also, why do the atheists feel like they can answer questions on the nature of something that they believe doesn't even exist? OP: "Why does God allow it?" What the atheist's answer should be: "I don't believe in God so I can offer ZERO relevant insight into this discussion." You win the internet!! And, for the people that do believe, they also believe the answer to these questions will be answered when they meet their maker. Why would they let some arbitrary reasoning from a NON BELIEVER get their panties in a wad?
ETA: I have always held the opinion that if a so called Christian or believer of any faith or religion lets a nonbeliever get under their skin and causes them to question their faith then they were not true to their faith to begin with. You're absolutely right about us not having all the answers until we die. Even if I'm totally stumped by an non believer's response, that's ok because where my answer's end is where my faith begins. I just have faith it'll all make sense one day. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:26:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe in a personal God, so I'm not troubled by such questions. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:29:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Atheists understand God and Religion the way Chuck Schumer understands guns. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:32:25 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:49:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems to me you're kinda shitting on God's gifts to you. After all, if God exists, and has in fact bestowed said blessings on you, then clearly he thought you deserved it. Why are you contradicting God? Not true. The problem I have is with the claim that God exists, even though no proof, or even verifiable evidence, is ever presented to substantiate the claim. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:52:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a good answer. I never thought of GD as a practice field for apologetics, but what better place to debate? No matter the outcome my faith won't be decreased just as we're probably not going to make believers out of anyone in a forum. I guess folks that get butt-hurt are on the fence themselves...? |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:56:30 PM EDT
[#43]
The better question is, what should God do to stop it?
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:05:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a good answer. I never thought of GD as a practice field for apologetics, but what better place to debate? No matter the outcome my faith won't be decreased just as we're probably not going to make believers out of anyone in a forum. I guess folks that get butt-hurt are on the fence themselves...? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Partly because BR76 posts these religious-troll threads in GD, instead of the echo chamber/safe space that the Faithful have to themselves. Partly because "iron sharpens iron" as it says in your holy book, and lastly, because a lively debate can be a lot of fun, as long as the participants aren't nasty about it. Rustled jimmies are how both sides are able to test their positions, something more than a few of the Faithful are unable to do without colossal butt-hurt. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:09:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would be surprised. I have had Christian members contact me about these threads. One in particular who wanted to know how to be saved. I hope he was. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's a good answer. I never thought of GD as a practice field for apologetics, but what better place to debate? No matter the outcome my faith won't be decreased just as we're probably not going to make believers out of anyone in a forum. I guess folks that get butt-hurt are on the fence themselves...? I don't really see any reason to argue with Atheists. (Although I will correct them if they falsely present Christianity or the Gospel.) But I present the Gospel for those that might want to hear it. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:10:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. And like Chuck, they can never shut their mouths about the subject. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Atheists understand God and Religion the way Chuck Schumer understands guns. 
Keep in mind, it's your belief that God doesn't want everyone to believe. It's not our fault it all seems like nonsense to us. If you need a safe space, go to the religion forum. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:13:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you need a safe space, go to the religion forum. And I normally do not post in the Religion Forum as the rules require posters to respect all religious beliefs and I most certainly do not do that. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, as long as you don't mind me disagreeing with you. 
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:16:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep in mind, it's your belief that God doesn't want everyone to believe. It's not our fault it all seems like nonsense to us. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:20:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never said a word about needing a safe space. And I normally do not post in the Religion Forum as the rules require posters to respect all religious beliefs and I most certainly do not do that. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, as long as you don't mind me disagreeing with you. I'd still shoot the ever living hell out of some guns with ya, given the chance, regardless of religious opinions
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:24:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nah...you're generally one of the good ones in these, even if we disagree. I'd still shoot the ever living hell out of some guns with ya, given the chance, regardless of religious opinions Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have never said a word about needing a safe space. And I normally do not post in the Religion Forum as the rules require posters to respect all religious beliefs and I most certainly do not do that. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, as long as you don't mind me disagreeing with you. I'd still shoot the ever living hell out of some guns with ya, given the chance, regardless of religious opinions I will not however, put up with inaccurate rifles.
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