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Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:24:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lots of good suggestions so far op.

If you can check both legs for voltage feeding into your main breaker and coming out are they the same? Could be as simple as a worn out main. Going through temperature cycles could be what's causing it to be sporadic presenting problems.
View Quote
Agreed, I just chased a ghost a few weeks ago at someone's apartment. The TV, cable box & fridge would turn off and the kitchen lights would dim for a short time and than come back on. Seemed to only happen when a high amperage load was used like the oven, toaster or microwave.

After checking the unit sub panel (all screws tight with no bad buss/breaker connections) I eventually put my T5 in the receptacle and watched it. The voltage dropped to 60-70 volts and than came back on. It had to be in the multi meter stack. Utility came out and pulled the meter & we opened the stack. Nothing evident - stabs looked fine and the main bkr screws were tight.

We put it all back together, turn it on and go back inside. Flip a switch and no lights! Well shit, we go back out and pull it apart again so I can check voltage on the load side of the main. One phase was open. Replaced the main and all has been good since.

I've never come across a main failing like this. I suppose it was breaking continuity once it heated up when the load increased.

Tricky one to find...
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:37:07 PM EDT
[#2]
I agree. Lots of really good info and it's much appreciated!!!

Any thoughts on why it's happening at the same times during the day?
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:44:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Something like this was happening to my brother. Then it got worse, voltage would fluctuate from 40 to 180 at the outlets. Fried appliances, furnace, wiring, etc., lucky the house didn't burn. I traced the voltage spikes to before the meter, ended up being a faulty neutral at the transformer due to crappy wire, Edison replaced the connection to the pole post haste. Come to find out 3 houses on the block burned from the same thing in a 7 year period before he moved there.
Got most of it fixed or replaced but he still worries about wiring in the walls that may have been damaged but not enough to short yet. Said a few rooms smelled of burning plastic back when it happened.
Probably not your issue but don't mess around, get it figured out ASAP.

ETA: if it's a loose neutral outside temperature fluctuation could explain the times it is happening. Wild guess but I assume it's possible. Good luck!
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:46:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Just happened again at 10:42 PM


OK is definitely on some sort of pattern. I'm going to try to have my voltmeters hooked up and watching it during the next timeframe.

I have two so I can have one on each phase to neutral at the main connections in the breaker panel and I'll setup my phone to record the voltages.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:49:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Seriously, am I first?

Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:50:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Sorry but I can't resist...



tag for outcome..

Beat by under a minute...

How revolting....
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:50:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Grow house next door cycling on their lights
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:52:24 PM EDT
[#8]
If you find a circuit that is low, check the other breakers for higher than normal voltage. When an appliance would kick on it would cause a low spike on one circuit and high on another. Totally random and was hard to trace, jumped breaker to breaker while some stayed normal.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:55:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Something like this was happening to my brother. Then it got worse, voltage would fluctuate from 40 to 180 at the outlets. Fried appliances, furnace, wiring, etc., lucky the house didn't burn. I traced the voltage spikes to before the meter, ended up being a faulty neutral at the transformer due to crappy wire, Edison replaced the connection to the pole post haste. Come to find out 3 houses on the block burned from the same thing in a 7 year period before he moved there.
Got most of it fixed or replaced but he still worries about wiring in the walls that may have been damaged but not enough to short yet. Said a few rooms smelled of burning plastic back when it happened.
Probably not your issue but don't mess around, get it figured out ASAP.

ETA: if it's a loose neutral outside temperature fluctuation could explain the times it is happening. Wild guess but I assume it's possible. Good luck!
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Something like this was happening to my brother. Then it got worse, voltage would fluctuate from 40 to 180 at the outlets. Fried appliances, furnace, wiring, etc., lucky the house didn't burn. I traced the voltage spikes to before the meter, ended up being a faulty neutral at the transformer due to crappy wire, Edison replaced the connection to the pole post haste. Come to find out 3 houses on the block burned from the same thing in a 7 year period before he moved there.
Got most of it fixed or replaced but he still worries about wiring in the walls that may have been damaged but not enough to short yet. Said a few rooms smelled of burning plastic back when it happened.
Probably not your issue but don't mess around, get it figured out ASAP.

ETA: if it's a loose neutral outside temperature fluctuation could explain the times it is happening. Wild guess but I assume it's possible. Good luck!
At worst, a loose neutral would get you 240 volts instead of the expected 120. Which will certainly damage attached devices designed for 120, but doesn't affect the wiring at all. His wiring is fine.

Quoted:
Just happened again at 10:42 PM

OK is definitely on some sort of pattern. I'm going to try to have my voltmeters hooked up and watching it during the next timeframe.

I have two so I can have one on each phase to neutral at the main connections in the breaker panel and I'll setup my phone to record the voltages.
One thought might be if the power company is load shifting between power sources or something like that, and the little dips you are seeing is when the changeover happens.

I have something similar at my house, sometimes the UPS would beep other times not, and the ceiling fan would make a little bit of noise.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:58:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Tagged for outcome.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 11:59:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

At worst, a loose neutral would get you 240 volts instead of the expected 120. Which will certainly damage attached devices designed for 120, but doesn't affect the wiring at all. His wiring is fine.
View Quote
Thanks, makes sense. I'll pass that on to him. We did find a few light sockets that appeared burned inside where the center of the bulb contacts but all the outlets we pulled looked fine.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:03:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Attachment Attached File


Maybe the neighbors are the problem....
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:08:13 AM EDT
[#13]
It's not your home. It's your neighborhood. This happens in my neighborhood several times a month. A power drop or power will just go off then come back on. Annoying as hell. New construction in the area. To many homes on the power grid in your area
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:12:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Can you post a pic of the transformer feeding your house ?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:16:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Ever since I put LED lights into our house almost 2 years ago, they would randomly flicker.  It only happened a handful of times a week and only lasts a few seconds.  I just chalked it up to LEDs being LEDs.

Within the last couple of weeks my UPS battery backup in my office started beeping as soon as the lights flicker.  My printer that is not on the UPS reboots itself.  The backup is on a different circuit than any of the LEDs.  We have the same LED canned lights on about 3 other circuits and they all flicker for the same amount of time.

My UPS has a utility on Windows that monitors power outages, under voltages, and over voltages.  Even though it beeps it does not record anything in any of those categories.

I'm at a loss to figure this out.

I also checked and my HVAC is not coming on when this happens.  Neither is my fridge or air compressor.  In fact any of those can come on and the lights don't react.  The only other appliance I haven't been able to track is the small freezer we keep in the garage.  Nothing else uses a lot of electricity in our house.  So I'm thinking if it's not the freezer then it has to be a voltage drop from the transformer?  

UPDATE:  Still no luck

Tightening the neutral bar and a few neutrals and grounds in my breaker panel didn't seem to change it.  Still did it Mon, Tue, and Wed.

I called the power company out and they came out yesterday.  He said the neutral at my main was just a little bit loose, but everything else looked good.  He did re-tighten it and requested a recording meter from corp, but didn't know if he'd be able to get one of them.  

So I needed a better way to track them.  My CyberPanel UPS software was just the personal edition and wasn't catching it all nor did it keep a log.  Looked into the Business edition and it would log every event. So I installed it.

Turns out it's happening a lot more than I thought.  

I thought it might be the freezer out in the garage, but it's unplugged.  Only other thing is the hot water heater.  You can't tell when it comes on.  So I'm going to turn it off today and see if that fixes it.

Any other ideas?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/167167/2017-03-23-06-14-00-PowerPanel-Business-Edition----Agent--Logs---Event-Logs--171972.JPG

UPDATE 2:

It seems to be happening at around the same time every day.  Now that I have the UPS logging it I'm starting to see a pattern. Tuesday and Wednesday weren't completely logged, so I was relying on seeing it myself and probably didn't catch them all. The automated logging started at around 7:15 PM Wednesday.  If the pattern persists it should happen again tonight around 10:30.

Also, I unhooked the water heater at about 11:45 AM Thursday morning to see if that was the culprit but it's not. I've isolated every single appliance at this point, including the TP Link Powerline LAN adapters. I also don't have anything on a schedule like this. My outside lights come on at dusk and off at dawn. So that's not it.

Monday
10:38 PM

Tuesday
7:33 PM

Wednesday
11:19 AM
7:25 PM
10:23 PM

Thursday
12:34 AM
3:27 AM
3:34 AM
11:24 AM
7:31 PM
View Quote


Check your ground strap outside. Mine corroded out and looked ok but was hanging on by a thread. I had the same kind of flickering/ ups going off and it ended up taking out two A/C compressors before I figured out what the culprit was. That was an expensive month.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:20:49 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can you post a pic of the transformer feeding your house ?
View Quote
I will tomorrow.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:21:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Check your ground strap outside. Mine corroded out and looked ok but was hanging on by a thread. I had the same kind of flickering/ ups going off and it ended up taking out two A/C compressors before I figured out what the culprit was. That was an expensive month.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ever since I put LED lights into our house almost 2 years ago, they would randomly flicker.  It only happened a handful of times a week and only lasts a few seconds.  I just chalked it up to LEDs being LEDs.

Within the last couple of weeks my UPS battery backup in my office started beeping as soon as the lights flicker.  My printer that is not on the UPS reboots itself.  The backup is on a different circuit than any of the LEDs.  We have the same LED canned lights on about 3 other circuits and they all flicker for the same amount of time.

My UPS has a utility on Windows that monitors power outages, under voltages, and over voltages.  Even though it beeps it does not record anything in any of those categories.

I'm at a loss to figure this out.

I also checked and my HVAC is not coming on when this happens.  Neither is my fridge or air compressor.  In fact any of those can come on and the lights don't react.  The only other appliance I haven't been able to track is the small freezer we keep in the garage.  Nothing else uses a lot of electricity in our house.  So I'm thinking if it's not the freezer then it has to be a voltage drop from the transformer?  

UPDATE:  Still no luck

Tightening the neutral bar and a few neutrals and grounds in my breaker panel didn't seem to change it.  Still did it Mon, Tue, and Wed.

I called the power company out and they came out yesterday.  He said the neutral at my main was just a little bit loose, but everything else looked good.  He did re-tighten it and requested a recording meter from corp, but didn't know if he'd be able to get one of them.  

So I needed a better way to track them.  My CyberPanel UPS software was just the personal edition and wasn't catching it all nor did it keep a log.  Looked into the Business edition and it would log every event. So I installed it.

Turns out it's happening a lot more than I thought.  

I thought it might be the freezer out in the garage, but it's unplugged.  Only other thing is the hot water heater.  You can't tell when it comes on.  So I'm going to turn it off today and see if that fixes it.

Any other ideas?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/167167/2017-03-23-06-14-00-PowerPanel-Business-Edition----Agent--Logs---Event-Logs--171972.JPG

UPDATE 2:

It seems to be happening at around the same time every day.  Now that I have the UPS logging it I'm starting to see a pattern. Tuesday and Wednesday weren't completely logged, so I was relying on seeing it myself and probably didn't catch them all. The automated logging started at around 7:15 PM Wednesday.  If the pattern persists it should happen again tonight around 10:30.

Also, I unhooked the water heater at about 11:45 AM Thursday morning to see if that was the culprit but it's not. I've isolated every single appliance at this point, including the TP Link Powerline LAN adapters. I also don't have anything on a schedule like this. My outside lights come on at dusk and off at dawn. So that's not it.

Monday
10:38 PM

Tuesday
7:33 PM

Wednesday
11:19 AM
7:25 PM
10:23 PM

Thursday
12:34 AM
3:27 AM
3:34 AM
11:24 AM
7:31 PM


Check your ground strap outside. Mine corroded out and looked ok but was hanging on by a thread. I had the same kind of flickering/ ups going off and it ended up taking out two A/C compressors before I figured out what the culprit was. That was an expensive month.
That's one thing I haven't checked. I'll do that tomorrow too.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:23:29 AM EDT
[#18]
All setup and ready to record both phases during the 12:30 AM drop. Alarm is set.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:32:35 AM EDT
[#19]
In
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:34:27 AM EDT
[#20]
What kinda electric meter does your utility have on your meter base ? Is it a new style digital AMR type ?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:44:37 AM EDT
[#21]
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as others here but a sales guy at Menards once told me I needed special dimmer switches for LED. Don't know if it's true. I mention this because you said it started after you put in LED bulbs.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:47:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Have you ruled out the possibility of a poltergeist ?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:57:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as others here but a sales guy at Menards once told me I needed special dimmer switches for LED. Don't know if it's true. I mention this because you said it started after you put in LED bulbs.
View Quote
That's a good question but they are on dimmers rated for LED.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:58:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That alum wire to the transformer is likely not in conduit, probably direct buried.  Conduit only goes 18" underground.   If the wire got damaged during install the problems could just now be showing up.

Hopefully they found the issue in the meter today.
View Quote
Yup we had half of ours go out it was like an episode of xfiles in here.  My night stand light turned on by them selves and were flickering slowly like some one was sliding a dimmer switch up and down, the door bell speaker was playing static.  All kinds of weird shit.  Had power in some parts of the house and not in others
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:01:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Have you ruled out the possibility of a poltergeist ?
View Quote
lol wut
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:07:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Have you asked your neighbors (on the same transformer) if they get the same problem?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:46:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Ok so right on schedule it just happened again.

I had two volt meters hooked up. Both negatives going to one of the neutral/ground bars and each hot going up to where the legs connect to the panel. So I was measuring the incoming voltage of each phase.

Voltage was about 124.5 to 124.9 the entire time. I didn't see it ever drop. Even when the lights flickered. I'm not exactly sure what this tells me and I'm half asleep.


Somewhat amusing story...

I started video recording both at about 15 minutes before I thought it would happen.  My meters have an auto shutoff around 10 minutes I think so at about 9 minutes in I switched them off and back on one at a time. Of course I have IMPECCABLE timing because the lights flickered just as soon as I got the 2nd one turned back on. How is that for luck?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:47:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Have you asked your neighbors (on the same transformer) if they get the same problem?
View Quote
Not to sound rude but I've mentioned it several times that I don't share a transformer with any neighbor. But the one neighbor that is downstream from my transformer has not had any issues.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 3:02:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
loose neutral?
View Quote
Yep
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 4:03:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yep
View Quote
if its on both legs and the neighbors are not affected, I would be looking at that
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 8:26:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
if its on both legs and the neighbors are not affected, I would be looking at that
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Yep
if its on both legs and the neighbors are not affected, I would be looking at that
But I don't share a transformer with anyone so the neighbors not experiencing it doesn't really mean anything.

And why would it happen at set intervals during the day if it's a bad connection?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:20:57 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm just curious, but have any of your neighbors that share the same transformer as you had any issues?












Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:30:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm just curious, but have any of your neighbors that share the same transformer as you had any issues?

View Quote



It just happened again... right on schedule....

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:51:17 PM EDT
[#34]
If the indicated voltage does not change but you're seeing disruptions, it must be a phase change. Power company must be switching something at that time and the phases are slightly off or something like that.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 12:53:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Digital MM's are not good for catching those fast dips/swings in voltage.  It would probably show up better on a cheap analog meter to be honest.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:04:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Digital MM's are not good for catching those fast dips/swings in voltage.  It would probably show up better on a cheap analog meter to be honest.
View Quote
He should be able to set the Min/Max to Min and be more likely to catch a drop.  Just watching the display, you are dealing with whatever integration and averaging the meter is using and a blip isn't as easy to see.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:13:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
He should be able to set the Min/Max to Min and be more likely to catch a drop.  Just watching the display, you are dealing with whatever integration and averaging the meter is using and a blip isn't as easy to see.
View Quote
Judging by what i can see in the pic, his meters don't have that capability.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:17:58 PM EDT
[#38]
did i read it right...they are on a dimmer switch??? If that is the case, that is your prob. dimmers are rated for wattage, some LED lights are dimmable but act weird as F and do goofy shit.
ended up being my issue. My girl bought a cheap ace hardware dimmer...I changed it out to a more expensive dimmer for LED and problem was solved
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:40:17 PM EDT
[#39]
What you really need is an oscilloscope.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:45:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Hmm what else would be periodic?..  sump or ejector pumpon a cycle timer?  Hmm you don't have a hot tub do you?
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 1:48:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
did i read it right...they are on a dimmer switch??? If that is the case, that is your prob. dimmers are rated for wattage, some LED lights are dimmable but act weird as F and do goofy shit.
ended up being my issue. My girl bought a cheap ace hardware dimmer...I changed it out to a more expensive dimmer for LED and problem was solved
View Quote
whole house is losing power for several seconds... not just the lights...  The lights are just the best visual indication that something is happening... as I understand it.

Last time I had a bizarre power issue only affecting my house... it turned out to be branches and other vegetation interfering with the lines. Which probably isn't OPs issue.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 2:09:49 PM EDT
[#42]
I once had a problem with a client and burning up new well pumps.  I finally put a data logger on it and ended being they were at the end of the spur feed and their automatic sprinklers came on the same time as the voltage drops.

7pm at night and 600am in the morning.  Right when everybody got home from work or were waking up in the morning.  Your times are odd though

Voltage drop means higher amps which burns up pump motors.  Met with SDG&E with my data and they upgraded the spur.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 2:25:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Your neighbor is turning on all his grow lights at the same time...

Serious answer.  Before my company moved we were located close to a rock quarry.  Evey time they fired up one of their conveyors that were powered by huge electric motors the lights would dim in our office.

Someone close to you could have some high loads switching on at the times you noted.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 2:38:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Judging by what i can see in the pic, his meters don't have that capability.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
He should be able to set the Min/Max to Min and be more likely to catch a drop.  Just watching the display, you are dealing with whatever integration and averaging the meter is using and a blip isn't as easy to see.
Judging by what i can see in the pic, his meters don't have that capability.
The fluke has min/max but I didn't even think about using it.  


Good news is I talked to the power company again and they are coming out to put a recording meter on it Monday.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 2:38:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
did i read it right...they are on a dimmer switch??? If that is the case, that is your prob. dimmers are rated for wattage, some LED lights are dimmable but act weird as F and do goofy shit.
ended up being my issue. My girl bought a cheap ace hardware dimmer...I changed it out to a more expensive dimmer for LED and problem was solved
View Quote
These are made for LEDs and cost about $30 each if I remember right.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 2:42:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hmm what else would be periodic?..  sump or ejector pumpon a cycle timer?  Hmm you don't have a hot tub do you?
View Quote
I don't have anything that is on a timer that would come on at those times.  No septic pump, no hot tub.

Things I've ruled out:

- Gas furnace
- Electric water heater
- A/C
- All appliances including the freezer in my garage
- hot water recirc pump
- Outside lights are on a smart switch that come on at sunset and off at dawn, but those times don't line up with what I'm seeing
- All connections in panel are tight
- Removed TP link powerline LAN adapters

Things still left to check:

- Ground rod connection
- Unplug UPS battery backup (I work from home and can't unplug it until tonight)
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 2:45:12 PM EDT
[#47]
What's weird is that I have a 15A air compressor running off of 115V in my garage, and even that doesn't make any of my lights dim when it comes on.  Neither does the A/C condenser coming on or the big Marathon water heater.

My lights never dim when things come on.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 3:13:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Weird problem.  I can't help, but I am interested in the eventual solution.  Good luck!
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 3:32:43 PM EDT
[#49]
The dimmers and the LEDs have to be matched to each other.

Older LEDs are not suitable on ANY dimmer.

Newer ones will say 'dimmable' on the package somewhere.

You then need to look at the manufacturer's full data on the light and determine what type of dimmer it will operate with.

Older TRIAC dimmers may not work correctly.


If the LED unit starts flashing on and off as it is dimmed you do NOT have the correct combination of LED light and dimmer.
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 3:58:52 PM EDT
[#50]
It is the gubmint.  Getcha a tinfoil helmet, and keep your dogs in the house. (Attempt at humor)
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