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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:25:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
End welfare. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:25:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Bullshit. But just for the sake of argument, say that only Mexicans will pick our produce. Well then we need to set up a system where they come here, pick the shit, and get the fuck out once it is done.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:26:25 PM EDT
[#3]
I can grow tomatoes just fine.
First, gotta kill all the squirrels. 
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:26:42 PM EDT
[#4]
farming is oddly exempt from overtime.....
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:27:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A better guest worker program would solve that. Secure the border, end the major baby right, issue more guest worker visas for manual labor and collect taxes on them to pay for the wall. Edit. Or trade Mexico for every working Mexican we give them one lazy American on welfare. That is a trade the mexicans are too smart to take. We keep trying to sell Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint, and the entire South east corner to the Kanuckistanians...they wont budge, no matter how much we offer to pay them. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:27:17 PM EDT
[#6]
If committing crimes (employing not just migrant labor, but ILLEGAL migrants) is how you planned on getting by your business model sucks.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:27:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Maybe he'll have to pay more per bushel?
God forbid economics comes into play here. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:28:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? Absolutely. Most people lack any economic education to realize they are just cutting off their nose to spite their face when it comes to illegals. And the blue collar working class will the ones being on the loosing end the most by the increase in cost of living. That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. And besides paying for everything for them for welfare rats already, we also then pay medical, and such on the illegals because their employer isn't...great deal for the employers pocket, not so much for the taxpayers... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:28:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Fl has multiple industries that are based on what is essentially indentured servitude. It's going to be painful and prices will go up but it has to be done. If not this nation is lost.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:29:03 PM EDT
[#10]
isn't that what work visas are for? we hire fuck ton of Indians and Pakistanis on work visas.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:29:17 PM EDT
[#11]
And how many hours is he working them?
$150 a day sounds good, but if we're talking 15hrs a day with no breaks...Yeah no one will do that job. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:30:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. That's not gonna change..... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:30:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd have to give them bennies and have comp insurance, OSHA compliance etc. Figure $30ish an hour outlay to get Americans to do it for $18.75 an hour. Don't forget FICA - assuming that the identity they're using isn't stolen and some poor schmuck gets nailed for the taxes they didn't pay. And this article reminds me that I need to start my tomato plants for the garden this weekend - since I can pick my own danged maters. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:32:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there it is! The underlying truth is these farmers have been reaping the windfall of illegal labor for decades, as well as being the driving force behind so much illegal entry. Our agricultural industry has been the factor that has created this caste system. pretty sure it was you and every other US consumer that was reaping the windfall..... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:32:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he'll have to pay more per bushel? God forbid economics comes into play here. There is another aspect to economics as well; imports. Go to the grocery store and take a look at the produce. Honduras, Mexico, Panama, Ecuador, these places all export produce and much of it is already cheaper than American produce. As good free trade, free market capitalists know, if you increase the costs of the business through minimum wages, taxes or regulations then he is not going to eat that, he's going to pass that on to you. So his prices are going to go up and you will buy foreign produce. At that point he will have the choice between lowering his prices and taking smaller profits or Atlas Shrugged. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:35:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to the link, that program specifically excludes agricultural labor. I think that we will need a guest worker program included with the deportations and The Wall. It's obvious that low cost labor from south of the border is something that we're going to have to have access to because too much of the economy is too dependent on illegal alien labor and Americans are too lazy to do the job. Eliminating welfare is never going to happen. There is no way that the Democrats in Congress are going to go along with it since doing so would eliminate their constituency. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:35:45 PM EDT
[#17]
When slavery ended there was a painful adjustment for some folks who had an otherwise fucked business model. Nothing different here. Law is law and we dont adjust that so farmer cheapass can save a buck.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:35:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not gonna change..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. That's not gonna change..... Not right away. Fixing the Democrats mess is going to be a long and painful ordeal. If we want to continue to have a country, we must do it though. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:36:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? Of course. There are always unintended consequences with ANY plan. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:39:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a trade the mexicans are too smart to take. We keep trying to sell Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint, and the entire South east corner to the Kanuckistanians...they wont budge, no matter how much we offer to pay them. lol SE MI is what makes Michigan not Wyoming. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:41:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Without the welfare, housing, education and healthcare burden that the rest of the illegal's families place on society, it will be a net gain to rid ourselves of them. Yes, you might pay more for oranges and tomatoes, but your tax dollars won't be stretched as thin.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:42:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not right away. Fixing the Democrats mess is going to be a long and painful ordeal. If we want to continue to have a country, we must do it though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. That's not gonna change..... Not right away. Fixing the Democrats mess is going to be a long and painful ordeal. If we want to continue to have a country, we must do it though. How long do you think that most voters will be willing to put up with a painful ordeal and Democratic rhetoric saying "SEE! WE TOLD YOU SO!" before voters put them back in power and they start fucking us all over again? Is deporting the illegal aliens the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is ending welfare the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is building a wall the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Do I want to do these things as much as you do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! But, I just don't practically see ending welfare and forcing the lazy to pick tomatoes if they want to eat as being something that is going to happen. I just don't see it as a political option that is going to happen. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:43:41 PM EDT
[#23]
The way I see it, these "negaitives" are consequences of something that never should have been in the first place.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:45:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was only a few generations ago that my ancestors were migrant farm workers that finally settled in NW Iowa to work at the packing plants, stock yards, grain elevators, and places like that. White folk that legally came from Europe used to do those jobs just fine until the illegal Mexicans came and took them. Nonsense. They didn't TAKE jobs from American workers. They were hired BY AMERICAN EMPLOYERS who chose to not hire American workers. The illegals are not the problem. They wouldn't come here for work if American employers refused to hire them. It's the employers who are the problem. Remove the incentive to come here, and you won't need a wall, or thousands of additional federal (ICE) employees. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:45:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Ok. I'll pay more for lettice and mayer. Ok.
Happy to, to get rid of the moochers. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:45:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The way I see it, these "negaitives" are consequences of something that never should have been in the first place. You're absolutely right, and I am not saying that we should keep allowing it or turn a blind eye to it. But, there is going to be an adjustment cost. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:46:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone brought this up yesternday. I was told lazy Americans don't want to do the work, even at 30/hr. If that IS the case then this country is fucked. Picking tuhmaters and arnges for 60k a year and people don't want to do it cause they're lazy POSs, ya we're fucked. Shit I'd do it in a heart beat for that pay. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:46:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, you're wrong. If you start telling the farmer that he has to raise wages and offer benefits to hire Americans (assuming that Americans are willing to take the jobs) then you're going to increase his costs and he's going to increase your prices. So you're going to start buying cheaper Mexican tomatoes and put him out of business. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fox news did a segment on deportations. One aspect that they talked about was criminals and drugs, but they also talked about farmers. They had footage of a farmer in Florida complaining that he used to ship 80 loads of Tomatoes per day and now he is down to shipping 20 loads of tomatoes per day. The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!' The reporter said that the farmer couldn't find people to work for $150/day picking tomatoes like the Mexicans will. So, one side of the coin is that we have to enforce our laws and keep the criminals and drugs out of our country. The other side of the coin is that, like it or not, a big portion of our economy is dependent on illegal immigrants. If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. Some farmers may be forced out of business either way, because foreign farms can produce and import food cheaper than American farmers can. You can probably apply this to a lot of different areas of our economy. Here in Texas (and probably through out the south and south west) construction and housing relies heavily on illegal immigrants for labor. Smaller labor pool could lead to housing shortages causing prices to rise, maintenance costs to rise, etc. Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? Expand the H2B visa program and use it as a model for other industries. In commercial landscaping the companies who aren't hiring illegals use this program. I have used it for years, it allows you to scale your work force and get work done. In the 11 years that I used the program I hired 3 Americans during the process where we had to advertise extensively and according to the federal regs. He's right about no one willing to do the work. He could double the pay and he still wouldn't be able to get enough employees and you would be paying 3x the amount for your tomatoes. H-2B visa wikipedia According to the link, that program specifically excludes agricultural labor. I think that we will need a guest worker program included with the deportations and The Wall. It's obvious that low cost labor from south of the border is something that we're going to have to have access to because too much of the economy is too dependent on illegal alien labor and Americans are too lazy to do the job. Eliminating welfare is never going to happen. There is no way that the Democrats in Congress are going to go along with it since doing so would eliminate their constituency. No, you're wrong. If you start telling the farmer that he has to raise wages and offer benefits to hire Americans (assuming that Americans are willing to take the jobs) then you're going to increase his costs and he's going to increase your prices. So you're going to start buying cheaper Mexican tomatoes and put him out of business. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:46:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Making omlets means a few eggs will need to break. If the prices of some goods are artificially low because of illegal immigrant labor, well we need to pay more for vegetables.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:49:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Here in California seasonal farm labor sits under different laws, you can work
Up to 10 hours a day without hitting ot I think it's under 46 hours a week as well That said we have a fun government funded program in this country where we knowing hire illegal immigrants to fight fire for the forest service fighting wildfires throughout California during fire season, these crews are typically called Scorpion crews The whole point of scorpion crews is the fact they are non English speaking and non citizen, you also don't have to prove citizenship with AD on call fire positions with the Usfs either Often times not even the crew boss speaks English In conversation with some of them they actually make good money picking fruit when they work for a farmer that pays them by how much they pick I have heard of them making over 200$ a day Combined with fire season they actually rake in great money for living in California |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:50:34 PM EDT
[#31]
If only they made a machine that picked tomatoes.............
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:51:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to the link, that program specifically excludes agricultural labor. I think that we will need a guest worker program included with the deportations and The Wall. It's obvious that low cost labor from south of the border is something that we're going to have to have access to because too much of the economy is too dependent on illegal alien labor and Americans are too lazy to do the job. Eliminating welfare is never going to happen. There is no way that the Democrats in Congress are going to go along with it since doing so would eliminate their constituency. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fox news did a segment on deportations. One aspect that they talked about was criminals and drugs, but they also talked about farmers. They had footage of a farmer in Florida complaining that he used to ship 80 loads of Tomatoes per day and now he is down to shipping 20 loads of tomatoes per day. The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!' The reporter said that the farmer couldn't find people to work for $150/day picking tomatoes like the Mexicans will. So, one side of the coin is that we have to enforce our laws and keep the criminals and drugs out of our country. The other side of the coin is that, like it or not, a big portion of our economy is dependent on illegal immigrants. If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. Some farmers may be forced out of business either way, because foreign farms can produce and import food cheaper than American farmers can. You can probably apply this to a lot of different areas of our economy. Here in Texas (and probably through out the south and south west) construction and housing relies heavily on illegal immigrants for labor. Smaller labor pool could lead to housing shortages causing prices to rise, maintenance costs to rise, etc. Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? Expand the H2B visa program and use it as a model for other industries. In commercial landscaping the companies who aren't hiring illegals use this program. I have used it for years, it allows you to scale your work force and get work done. In the 11 years that I used the program I hired 3 Americans during the process where we had to advertise extensively and according to the federal regs. He's right about no one willing to do the work. He could double the pay and he still wouldn't be able to get enough employees and you would be paying 3x the amount for your tomatoes. H-2B visa wikipedia According to the link, that program specifically excludes agricultural labor. I think that we will need a guest worker program included with the deportations and The Wall. It's obvious that low cost labor from south of the border is something that we're going to have to have access to because too much of the economy is too dependent on illegal alien labor and Americans are too lazy to do the job. Eliminating welfare is never going to happen. There is no way that the Democrats in Congress are going to go along with it since doing so would eliminate their constituency. Thats why he said "expand the H2B visa program". |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:52:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$150 a day?? That's 18.75/hr......I'm pretty sure you could find american's to work for that wage....That's nearly $40k a year. This. I bet that if he was paying $150 it sure wasn't for an 8 hour day. More like 16 hours or more a day. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:53:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fail to see where I'm wrong. If his farm isn't competitive then it should go out of business. But somehow I suspect, from my past and recent experience with farmers who use legal labor, that American farms can compete just fine. His farm might not, but that's because he made himself dependent on illegal labor while other farms invested in better equipment and techniques. I personally know a guy who works for one of the huge name construction firms. If I gave their name then you'd know the company. They build housing and condo developments everywhere. This guy was a site foreman working on a sub development. One of the guys who bought in to the development was a police officer. The cop started driving through during construction, just to see how his house was coming along. When he did, the entire labor force for the site took off and didn't come back until the next day. After a couple times, the site foreman had to ask the cop to stop driving his patrol vehicle through the sub because he couldn't get any work done. It's more than just farmers, and it's a fact that American businesses are addicted to cheap labor from illegal immigrants. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:53:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're absolutely right, and I am not saying that we should keep allowing it or turn a blind eye to it. But, there is going to be an adjustment cost. And I'm fine with that. What I would like to see is the average American understand it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:53:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll find PLENTY PEOPLE READY AND WILLING TO WORK.... About 90 minutes after you STOP giving them free section 8 housing, free Food stamps, QWEST benefits, free medicine, free doctors, free heating oil, free telephones, WIC, Vista,..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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End welfare. Problem solved. A buddy of mine said his Levis would cost $200/pair if they were still made in the USA. I told him that he was paying $200/pair for those ChiCom jeans: $30 for the jeans, and then $170 in gubbment assistance to support the people that used to make the jeans. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:53:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's in business because he hires people who break the law. That's like complaining that you can't find enough car thieves to supply your auto parts store with stolen parts. His business model does not work. He made it work with illegal workers. He should be out of business. Yep getting documented workers would be a start, now he had a choice, pay a premium or let the crop rot in the field. Maybe he won't make as much money this year. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:55:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I highly doubt that the illegals are working 8 hour days with lunch and coffee breaks. I am sure that these pickers are working at least 10 hours per day, and they are doing this out in the fields with the sun, mud, bugs and rain. They showed footage of the pickers at work and it was fast moving work with heavy lifting involved. They also aren't getting benefits or paid holidays. I highly doubt that your average ghetto goblin or welfare queen is even in good enough physical condition to do the work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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$150 a day?? That's 18.75/hr......I'm pretty sure you could find american's to work for that wage....That's nearly $40k a year. I highly doubt that the illegals are working 8 hour days with lunch and coffee breaks. I am sure that these pickers are working at least 10 hours per day, and they are doing this out in the fields with the sun, mud, bugs and rain. They showed footage of the pickers at work and it was fast moving work with heavy lifting involved. They also aren't getting benefits or paid holidays. I highly doubt that your average ghetto goblin or welfare queen is even in good enough physical condition to do the work. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:56:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Let me just say one more time that I am not opposed to deporting the illegals or building the wall. I am especially in favor of deporting the criminal illegals and killing the sanctuary cities.
I'm simply asking if there are going to be unintended consequences of these things. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:56:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nonsense. They didn't TAKE jobs from American workers. They were hired BY AMERICAN EMPLOYERS who chose to not hire American workers. The illegals are not the problem. They wouldn't come here for work if American employers refused to hire them. It's the employers who are the problem. Remove the incentive to come here, and you won't need a wall, or thousands of additional federal (ICE) employees. I bet a year in jail per illegal employee would cause employers to drop them faster than a freshly cut piece of steel. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:59:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I personally know a guy who works for one of the huge name construction firms. If I gave their name then you'd know the company. They build housing and condo developments everywhere. This guy was a site foreman working on a sub development. One of the guys who bought in to the development was a police officer. The cop started driving through during construction, just to see how his house was coming along. When he did, the entire labor force for the site took off and didn't come back until the next day. After a couple times, the site foreman had to ask the cop to stop driving his patrol vehicle through the sub because he couldn't get any work done. It's more than just farmers, and it's a fact that American businesses are addicted to cheap labor from illegal immigrants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I fail to see where I'm wrong. If his farm isn't competitive then it should go out of business. But somehow I suspect, from my past and recent experience with farmers who use legal labor, that American farms can compete just fine. His farm might not, but that's because he made himself dependent on illegal labor while other farms invested in better equipment and techniques. I personally know a guy who works for one of the huge name construction firms. If I gave their name then you'd know the company. They build housing and condo developments everywhere. This guy was a site foreman working on a sub development. One of the guys who bought in to the development was a police officer. The cop started driving through during construction, just to see how his house was coming along. When he did, the entire labor force for the site took off and didn't come back until the next day. After a couple times, the site foreman had to ask the cop to stop driving his patrol vehicle through the sub because he couldn't get any work done. It's more than just farmers, and it's a fact that American businesses are addicted to cheap labor from illegal immigrants. Even here in CA I've seen some successful construction firms that use legal labor. Smaller firms for sure, but successful. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:01:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long do you think that most voters will be willing to put up with a painful ordeal and Democratic rhetoric saying "SEE! WE TOLD YOU SO!" before voters put them back in power and they start fucking us all over again? Is deporting the illegal aliens the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is ending welfare the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is building a wall the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Do I want to do these things as much as you do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! But, I just don't practically see ending welfare and forcing the lazy to pick tomatoes if they want to eat as being something that is going to happen. I just don't see it as a political option that is going to happen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. That's not gonna change..... Not right away. Fixing the Democrats mess is going to be a long and painful ordeal. If we want to continue to have a country, we must do it though. How long do you think that most voters will be willing to put up with a painful ordeal and Democratic rhetoric saying "SEE! WE TOLD YOU SO!" before voters put them back in power and they start fucking us all over again? Is deporting the illegal aliens the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is ending welfare the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is building a wall the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Do I want to do these things as much as you do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! But, I just don't practically see ending welfare and forcing the lazy to pick tomatoes if they want to eat as being something that is going to happen. I just don't see it as a political option that is going to happen. So, what is the alternative? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:02:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fail to see where I'm wrong. If his farm isn't competitive then it should go out of business. But somehow I suspect, from my past and recent experience with farmers who use legal labor, that American farms can compete just fine. His farm might not, but that's because he made himself dependent on illegal labor while other farms invested in better equipment and techniques. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Fox news did a segment on deportations. One aspect that they talked about was criminals and drugs, but they also talked about farmers. They had footage of a farmer in Florida complaining that he used to ship 80 loads of Tomatoes per day and now he is down to shipping 20 loads of tomatoes per day. The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!' The reporter said that the farmer couldn't find people to work for $150/day picking tomatoes like the Mexicans will. So, one side of the coin is that we have to enforce our laws and keep the criminals and drugs out of our country. The other side of the coin is that, like it or not, a big portion of our economy is dependent on illegal immigrants. If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. Some farmers may be forced out of business either way, because foreign farms can produce and import food cheaper than American farmers can. You can probably apply this to a lot of different areas of our economy. Here in Texas (and probably through out the south and south west) construction and housing relies heavily on illegal immigrants for labor. Smaller labor pool could lead to housing shortages causing prices to rise, maintenance costs to rise, etc. Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? Expand the H2B visa program and use it as a model for other industries. In commercial landscaping the companies who aren't hiring illegals use this program. I have used it for years, it allows you to scale your work force and get work done. In the 11 years that I used the program I hired 3 Americans during the process where we had to advertise extensively and according to the federal regs. He's right about no one willing to do the work. He could double the pay and he still wouldn't be able to get enough employees and you would be paying 3x the amount for your tomatoes. H-2B visa wikipedia According to the link, that program specifically excludes agricultural labor. I think that we will need a guest worker program included with the deportations and The Wall. It's obvious that low cost labor from south of the border is something that we're going to have to have access to because too much of the economy is too dependent on illegal alien labor and Americans are too lazy to do the job. Eliminating welfare is never going to happen. There is no way that the Democrats in Congress are going to go along with it since doing so would eliminate their constituency. No, you're wrong. If you start telling the farmer that he has to raise wages and offer benefits to hire Americans (assuming that Americans are willing to take the jobs) then you're going to increase his costs and he's going to increase your prices. So you're going to start buying cheaper Mexican tomatoes and put him out of business. My guess is you would see large farms divided back up into smaller family owned/ran farms and be run on a profit without raising produce prices....my guess, most farms became to big and "corperate" ran to make efficient without cheap labor... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:02:34 PM EDT
[#44]
I don't know what visa they use for it but up here the apple farmers import Jamaican labor just for the picking season.
They have dorm-style housing for them, pay a decent wage, fly them up here and home again when done, all done legally. The owners even provide van trips into town once or twice a week so they can shop, go to a movie , etc . Many of the same pickers come back year after year and have become friends with the farmers and part of the local community. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:04:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Meh . . . I don't like tomatoes anyway.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:05:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Time to get some prisoners out of jails for the day to pick vegetables (under armed guard of course). We have lots of prisoners.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:06:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, what is the alternative? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. That's not gonna change..... Not right away. Fixing the Democrats mess is going to be a long and painful ordeal. If we want to continue to have a country, we must do it though. How long do you think that most voters will be willing to put up with a painful ordeal and Democratic rhetoric saying "SEE! WE TOLD YOU SO!" before voters put them back in power and they start fucking us all over again? Is deporting the illegal aliens the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is ending welfare the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is building a wall the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Do I want to do these things as much as you do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! But, I just don't practically see ending welfare and forcing the lazy to pick tomatoes if they want to eat as being something that is going to happen. I just don't see it as a political option that is going to happen. So, what is the alternative? Well, I think that if you couple a legal guest worker program,tax cuts and regulatory relief with the deportations then it will help. I also think that Trump and the Republicans should fight like hell for welfare reform, but without more power in the Senate I think it's going to be an uphill fight (and McConnell doesn't seem to have the stomach for uphill fights). Maybe if we can win a bunch of those contested seats in the midterms then we can go after welfare reform and spending cuts for entitlements after 2018. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:06:59 PM EDT
[#48]
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Or they, the pickers, could apply for a green card to come here and pick stuff. You know, legally. I know its a big leap but I happen to think its worth a shot. ETA: Dang I wasted 11700 on that. Just think, there was a time where a man once said.... "I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card... I'm gonna carve him up real nice." |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:10:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy - you want foodstamps / welfare - you are not disabled - we have a brilliant job for you - go pick tomatoes ..... This has the additional benefit of setting an example of why getting the most out of your state provided education is a good thing. "Work with your back or work with your mind, which sounds better to you?" (What my Daddy told me way back when.) This ain't rocket surgery. People, much like water, will follow the easiest path. Make it easy to sit on your ass, make state paid for babies, and live an acceptable life style, then a LOT of people will. Make hard work the result of not trying to do better, you will get a lot less of 'not trying to do better'. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:15:15 PM EDT
[#50]
As mentioned above, people of all races picked those crops before there
was welfare. I saw it growing up and had white friends that spent weekends picking them. Hunger is a motivator. |
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