User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 4:57:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spoken like a Sig circle jerker. Bore axis isn't the end all be all consideration for a handgun, but physics (you know...science) proves that lower is better... to entirely dismiss it because you're a Sig fan girl is no different then falling on the other end of the retard spectrum and claiming it's a garbage handgun just because it has a high bore axis. Cry some more about it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:04:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mah bore axis because I do not know how to shoot a pistol unless it's mah precious! Have you folks ever watched a video where shooters are negating your BS because they've learned how to control muzzle rise by using a high grip? Because I know you haven't shot with an actual shooter in person who could teach you how to actually do it. Good grief. Learn how to properly shoot. And yet you got rid of your Glocks cause you couldn't shoot them. Why didn't you just not suck? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:04:50 PM EDT
[#3]
After much research on MS Paint I have found a way to show beyond doubt, what I think the problem is.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:15:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would be very wary of anyone who dismisses the bore axis issue by stating they can feel no difference between pistols of very different frame designs. Just because you can't feel the difference simply means you are the n00b, not that you couldn't be taught to take full advantage of each pistol and appreciate the differences. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:30:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, no they're not noobs. Sorry, but that just isn't the case here. And I am wary of anyone who labels anyone a noob when they say noob things like that. For someone not being able to feel any difference in the recoil of two pistols is a valuable observation only if they are capable of feeling differences between pistols that are really very different in their recoil behavior. And the calibration to that is what kind of differences they can detect and articulate. If you have a color blind person telling you a green car and a red car looks the same (like several comparative examples in this thread), then that doesn't tell you they are the same color, it tells you the person is color blind. The same thing with triggers. If you have a shooter that claims to you they can shoot as well with a poor trigger than a great trigger, it only tells you they don't know how to shoot and either don't know physics and human performance limitations or simply choose to ignore them. It's entirely different to discuss the individual merits of certain attributes than to deny their existence or argue that simply because you don't understand them, they are irrelevant. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:46:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For someone not being able to feel any difference in the recoil of two pistols is a valuable observation only if they are capable of feeling differences between pistols that are really very different in their recoil behavior. And the calibration to that is what kind of differences they can detect and articulate. If you have a color blind person telling you a green car and a red car looks the same (like several comparative examples in this thread), then that doesn't tell you they are the same color, it tells you the person is color blind. The same thing with triggers. If you have a shooter that claims to you they can shoot as well with a poor trigger than a great trigger, it only tells you they don't know how to shoot and either don't know physics and human performance limitations or simply choose to ignore them. It's entirely different to discuss the individual merits of certain attributes than to deny their existence or argue that simply because you don't understand them, they are irrelevant. You cannot change facts to suit your narrative. It does not work this way. I've been shooting handguns since the 80's. How long have you been shooting handguns and how many have you shot? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:53:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A DA trigger is one of the hardest to master and yet there are people that can making your argument null and void when it comes to triggers. I'm sorry that you cannot comprehend this, but it is something you as a shooter need to learn about. You cannot change facts to suit your narrative. It does not work this way. I've been shooting handguns since the 80's. How long have you been shooting handguns and how many have you shot? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For someone not being able to feel any difference in the recoil of two pistols is a valuable observation only if they are capable of feeling differences between pistols that are really very different in their recoil behavior. And the calibration to that is what kind of differences they can detect and articulate. If you have a color blind person telling you a green car and a red car looks the same (like several comparative examples in this thread), then that doesn't tell you they are the same color, it tells you the person is color blind. The same thing with triggers. If you have a shooter that claims to you they can shoot as well with a poor trigger than a great trigger, it only tells you they don't know how to shoot and either don't know physics and human performance limitations or simply choose to ignore them. It's entirely different to discuss the individual merits of certain attributes than to deny their existence or argue that simply because you don't understand them, they are irrelevant. You cannot change facts to suit your narrative. It does not work this way. I've been shooting handguns since the 80's. How long have you been shooting handguns and how many have you shot? Can those double action shooters shoot other systems better? Probably. Your wrong, your fake facts and all @GSL. The thing with the bore axis issue is not that it doesn't exist. It's that it's largely irrelevant to most shooters. The best shooters out there can probably out shoot me easily with a p226 while I shot a Glock. I can shoot most guns pretty well and don't find bore axis a big deal because I don't compete in the 0.01s of seconds where bore axis can come into play. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:57:35 PM EDT
[#8]
What we should really be talking about is that none of the entrants to the program did well to begin with and that the only reason the p320 got a second chance is because of the modular requirement....they picked one, to pick one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:04:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What we should really be talking about is that none of the entrants to the program did well to begin with and that the only reason the p320 got a second chance is because of the modular requirement....they picked one, to pick one. Where did you read that? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:06:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can those double action shooters shoot other systems better? Probably. Your wrong, your fake facts and all @GSL. The thing with the bore axis issue is not that it doesn't exist. It's that it's largely irrelevant to most shooters. The best shooters out there can probably out shoot me easily with a p226 while I shot a Glock. I can shoot most guns pretty well and don't find bore axis a big deal because I don't compete in the 0.01s of seconds where bore axis can come into play. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For someone not being able to feel any difference in the recoil of two pistols is a valuable observation only if they are capable of feeling differences between pistols that are really very different in their recoil behavior. And the calibration to that is what kind of differences they can detect and articulate. If you have a color blind person telling you a green car and a red car looks the same (like several comparative examples in this thread), then that doesn't tell you they are the same color, it tells you the person is color blind. The same thing with triggers. If you have a shooter that claims to you they can shoot as well with a poor trigger than a great trigger, it only tells you they don't know how to shoot and either don't know physics and human performance limitations or simply choose to ignore them. It's entirely different to discuss the individual merits of certain attributes than to deny their existence or argue that simply because you don't understand them, they are irrelevant. You cannot change facts to suit your narrative. It does not work this way. I've been shooting handguns since the 80's. How long have you been shooting handguns and how many have you shot? Can those double action shooters shoot other systems better? Probably. Your wrong, your fake facts and all @GSL. The thing with the bore axis issue is not that it doesn't exist. It's that it's largely irrelevant to most shooters. The best shooters out there can probably out shoot me easily with a p226 while I shot a Glock. I can shoot most guns pretty well and don't find bore axis a big deal because I don't compete in the 0.01s of seconds where bore axis can come into play. Mostly this. To say bore axis makes no difference is to ignore physics. But with 9mm, the difference in time isn't very much and really only meaningful in competitions. Where it comes more into play for me, is that I can much more naturally point shoot something with a low bore axis. Training can mostly overcome that, but if I'm faster from day 1 with a Glock or a CZ then it would seem logical to assume that given the same training in whatever gun I'll be faster with them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:08:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you read that? Would also like to know this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:09:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you read that? I talked with a guy privy to the program and he told me that the initial submissions from Sig as well as most of the other entrants were problematic if not outright failures. He said that the M&P M2.0 was the first dropout and a complete fail. The p320 had multiple failures including a trigger pack on one of the guns that "disintegrated" but that Sig was invited to revise and resubmit. Probably because everybody's shit stunk but the 320 fit the modular requirements better than any of them. I believe this is the quote from Army press release during the program. “The U.S. Army remains committed to the Modular Handgun System program despite high costs, low performance and heavy criticism.” |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:18:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I talked with a guy privy to the program and he told me that the initial submissions from Sig as well as most of the other entrants were problematic if not outright failures. He said that the M&P M2 was the first dropout and a complete fail. The p320 had multiple failures including a trigger pack on one of the guns that "disintegrated" but that Sig was invited to revise and resubmit. Probably because everybody's shit stunk but the 320 fit the modular requirements better than any of them. I believe this is the quote from Army press release during the program. “The U.S. Army remains committed to the Modular Handgun System program despite high costs, low performance and heavy criticism.” |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:27:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What did they say about the other entries? I'd like to know why the others failed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I talked with a guy privy to the program and he told me that the initial submissions from Sig as well as most of the other entrants were problematic if not outright failures. He said that the M&P M2 was the first dropout and a complete fail. The p320 had multiple failures including a trigger pack on one of the guns that "disintegrated" but that Sig was invited to revise and resubmit. Probably because everybody's shit stunk but the 320 fit the modular requirements better than any of them. I believe this is the quote from Army press release during the program. “The U.S. Army remains committed to the Modular Handgun System program despite high costs, low performance and heavy criticism.” Because the concept of a "Modular" handgun is fucking retarded. Making anything modular brings in problems that aren't needed. Its a secondary weapon at best. It shouldn't be modular. It should be stupid simple, basic, reliable and done. A glock 26 would solve 99% of this as would a 19. Frankly...I don't think we should have as many handguns in use as we do. A PDW would make far more sense in the environment these are designed for. An MP-7 or similar. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:29:04 PM EDT
[#15]
While I would rather have a Glock 19, at the end of the day a P320 is a hell of a lot better then an M9. And I wouldn't complain if that is what I was issued.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:33:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What did they say about the other entries? I'd like to know why the others failed. Ill ask him what was up with the other submissions next time I see him. The conversation started because I happened to be holding an M2.0 in FDE at that particular moment and trying out the trigger, which seemed quite nice. He started talking about the p320 and how they had problems with the first group of guns similar to the FBI's experiences in their own trials and talked about the trigger pack failure on one of the guns. He said that the p320 was the only gun that was "truely modular" in the trials. He did say all the companies had failures though. It sounds like the whole program was a shitshow from the conversation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:40:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ill ask him what was up with the other submissions next time I see him. The conversation started because I happened to be holding an M2.0 in FDE at that particular moment and trying out the trigger, which seemed quite nice. He started talking about the p320 and how they had problems with the first group of guns similar to the FBI's experiences in their own trials and talked about the trigger pack failure on one of the guns. He said that the p320 was the only gun that was "truely modular" in the trials. He did say all the companies had failures though. It sounds like the whole program was a shitshow from the conversation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 7:11:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. If you have to send me an IM to prevent lawsuits from the other competitors, please do so. Hey, it's all speculation and heresay at this point, I got no proof as I weren't there. 
I like the trigger on the new M&P M2.0 but the FDE version only comes with the thumb safety. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 7:14:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well... Sig is the finest modern handgun available in the world today. MAGA. 
I'll stick with glock 19 |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 7:33:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 1911 bore axis is pretty high. So are Sig and HK. I'm no pro speed shooter but I am slightly slower with those than Glocks, M&P's, CZ's. 1945 Rem Rand 1911A1, H&K HK45C, and Glock G21SF https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG-9800-131354.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Re: Height over bore/"bore axis" or whatever - i just did an informal comparison with one of my 1911s. The 320 is not appreciably "taller" than the 1911. I never hear complaints about the 1911 being too tall. Heavy, big, unreliable, yes, but tall, no.  The 1911 bore axis is pretty high. So are Sig and HK. I'm no pro speed shooter but I am slightly slower with those than Glocks, M&P's, CZ's. 1945 Rem Rand 1911A1, H&K HK45C, and Glock G21SF https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG-9800-131354.JPG Nobody thinks the 1911 bore axis is too high. I've never heard anyone say that. Regardless, the P226 has a "high" bore axis and it's still considered a premier combat pistol. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 7:54:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ill ask him what was up with the other submissions next time I see him. The conversation started because I happened to be holding an M2.0 in FDE at that particular moment and trying out the trigger, which seemed quite nice. He started talking about the p320 and how they had problems with the first group of guns similar to the FBI's experiences in their own trials and talked about the trigger pack failure on one of the guns. He said that the p320 was the only gun that was "truely modular" in the trials. He did say all the companies had failures though. It sounds like the whole program was a shitshow from the conversation. The P320 still has to undergo field trials. It could completely end up like the SCAR-L. Decent on paper and a shit show in the field. Same for the CSASS. Nothing is a success until it completely passes field and quality assurance trials, which oddly come after the procurement. It would be funny to see the gun completely fail in the field...What would happen? Would the Army backtrack and get the M9A3? Or would they pull an Indian Army and continue to issue a shit pistol(ala the INSAS). |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 7:59:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cry some more about it. You're the only one purse swinging every time anyone posts anything negative about the 320. Maybe some of us don't want to carry that turd. Maybe some of us have had shit experiences with Sig. Regardless, clean the sand out of your safe space and grow some thicker skin. Most Marines I've worked with are tough. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 8:06:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The P320 still has to undergo field trials. It could completely end up like the SCAR-L. Decent on paper and a shit show in the field. Same for the CSASS. Nothing is a success until it completely passes field and quality assurance trials, which oddly come after the procurement. It would be funny to see the gun completely fail in the field...What would happen? Would the Army backtrack and get the M9A3? Or would they pull an Indian Army and continue to issue a shit pistol(ala the INSAS). Therein lies my final hope. If it performs as poorly as it did for the FBI, as I certainly hope, it will get shitcanned and taxpayers can save half a billion dollars by not buying shit that's not needed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 8:07:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spoken like a Sig circle jerker. Bore axis isn't the end all be all consideration for a handgun, but physics (you know...science) proves that lower is better... to entirely dismiss it because you're a Sig fan girl is no different then falling on the other end of the retard spectrum and claiming it's a garbage handgun just because it has a high bore axis. I shoot my HK USP just fine. And I've shot my dad's M&P which has a lower bore axis. I shoot them equally well. Bore axis should be like at the bottom for pistol consideration. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 8:12:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot my HK USP just fine. And I've shot my dad's M&P which has a lower bore axis. I shoot them equally well. Bore axis should be like at the bottom for pistol consideration. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Spoken like a Sig circle jerker. Bore axis isn't the end all be all consideration for a handgun, but physics (you know...science) proves that lower is better... to entirely dismiss it because you're a Sig fan girl is no different then falling on the other end of the retard spectrum and claiming it's a garbage handgun just because it has a high bore axis. I shoot my HK USP just fine. And I've shot my dad's M&P which has a lower bore axis. I shoot them equally well. Bore axis should be like at the bottom for pistol consideration. Not at the bottom, since it does affect how you shoot; it'll mostly affect one-handed shooting, though the difference is still miniscule. The bottom of the list is whether or not the pistol matches your purse. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 8:22:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot my HK USP just fine. And I've shot my dad's M&P which has a lower bore axis. I shoot them equally well. Bore axis should be like at the bottom for pistol consideration. Nice. And I agree. It shouldn't be the highest priority, but for an experienced shooter it makes a difference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 8:58:41 PM EDT
[#27]
I find bore axis and shooting to be comparable with shaving one's body and swimming. Should it help, well YEAH! PHYSICS BRO! But it will only really help that small percentage out there who have already mastered most other aspects of the sport.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:16:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're the only one purse swinging every time anyone posts anything negative about the 320. Maybe some of us don't want to carry that turd. Maybe some of us have had shit experiences with Sig. Regardless, clean the sand out of your safe space and grow some thicker skin. Most Marines I've worked with are tough. Seriously, I need you to cry some more. My canteen needs filling. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:26:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find bore axis and shooting to be comparable with shaving one's body and swimming. Should it help, well YEAH! PHYSICS BRO! But it will only really help that small percentage out there who have already mastered most other aspects of the sport. If you are a top competition shooter shooting national level matches, maybe bore axis matters. For a combat pistol, it doesn't matter one iota. 100% of people bitching about bore axis in GD when it comes to a combat pistol are full of faggotry. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:36:48 AM EDT
[#30]
So how does everyone feel the quality assurance testing and field trials will go here?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 1:07:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who gets issued what will probably stay the same since this is just a product acquisition and not really changing the MTOE or whatever actually prescribes who is eligible for the weapon. From a logistics/O&M perspective this should save a fuck ton of time, money, and space. What happens in reality is yet to be seen especially with the actually phase out of the M9/M11 and the phase in of this new system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The modularity requirement is likely intended to make sure that the Army can (in theory) track down the components in inventory and use them to assemble whatever configuration of pistols that are required without having to buy new ones and therefore have to ask Congress for money. The Army is just taking a technical trend and going full retard with it because modularity is a concept that the Army as an organization can't make proper use of. A modular pistol design is exactly what the Army does NOT need and shouldn't get. Fact is the compact pistols will have a certain cache (because they're just nicer in every way) and everyone who can get a pistol will want the compact version. If actually adopted the modular pistol will lead to helicopter pilots flying around with huge full size pistols squashing their balls (or tits or whatever) while people in the rear who will never ever fire a weapon in combat have all the compacts. Hopefully someone in the incoming Trump administration is reading this, is in a position to force the Army to get compact pistols only and more of them for the same money, and does so. The modular pistol concept offers absolutely zero logistical or tactical advantages to the Army. Buying only compact versions, and getting more of them in lieu of full and mid size grip, slide, and barrel modules will save money (more bangers for the buck), save space (less shit to store = saved space) and time (one pistol configuration = less time spent managing a cornucopia of parts for various size pistols and less time fucking with said pistols). Pistols are so insignificant to combat operations that the only reason these fuckheads have spent so much time and money trying to figure out the most complicated way possible to replace the old ones is because it keeps them employed. The Sig P320 system is an F-35 that you can buy for a reasonably exorbitant price and hold in your hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 1:27:41 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So wait the Army can have a modular rifle that it configures and upgrades for unit needs ie turning M4 into M4a1 or Mk18, but it somehow can not do the same with a pistol? Just because the changes do not happen in the unit arms room, does not mean modular is not an important consideration for the Army. I meant the Army shouldn't be extending modularity to pistols but got kind of carried away with what I thought was a good rant. Anyway, just because the Army can play tinker toys with their pistols doesn't mean they should and I explain why I think that in my follow up rant above. The Army could issue water pistols and see almost no deleterious effect from it on the big picture of their operations. If we get to the point of losing a battle or war because someone had the suboptimal configuration of pistol I'd say maybe we done fucked up a whole lot of shit that's far more important. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 1:32:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The modular pistol concept offers absolutely zero logistical or tactical advantages to the Army. Buying only compact versions, and getting more of them in lieu of full and mid size grip, slide, and barrel modules will save money (more bangers for the buck), save space (less shit to store = saved space) and time (one pistol configuration = less time spent managing a cornucopia of parts for various size pistols and less time fucking with said pistols). Pistols are so insignificant to combat operations that the only reason these fuckheads have spent so much time and money trying to figure out the most complicated way possible to replace the old ones is because it keeps them employed. The Sig P320 system is an F-35 that you can buy for a reasonably exorbitant price and hold in your hand. CSB and Thank you for your service. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 4:20:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look out now, we've got an expert from the internet that knows more what the US Army needs than the actual US Army themselves. CSB and Thank you for your service. I know what you're getting at but the Army makes stupid procurement decisions all the time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 4:31:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look out now, we've got an expert from the internet that knows more what the US Army needs than the actual US Army themselves. CSB and Thank you for your service. I have never seen you add any new information or value to a discussion here. Not ever. It's pretty sad, really. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 4:57:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So how does everyone feel the quality assurance testing and field trials will go here? For the military I only see two possible problems; the P320's light primer strike issues combined with military hard primers, and the two tiny little springs that can fall out when you take apart the striker assembly. I heard the .mil version has some sort of lock to prevent the striker and trigger pack from being removed in the field. Time will tell if those locks will keep Pvt Snuffy from prying the pistol apart with a leatherman and losing shit. I don't know if the light strikes have been addressed, but I imagine they have or the P320 would not have made it this far. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:06:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I heard the .mil version has some sort of lock to prevent the striker and trigger pack from being removed in the field. Not sure about the striker, but in my post above I linked the new SIG manual that references the lock. My older manual does not. Must have been a part/design made especially for the military. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:13:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe this is the quote from Army press release during the program. “The U.S. Army remains committed to the Modular Handgun System program despite high costs, low performance and heavy criticism.” Oh, I see. That's interesting, thanks. So they just went full retard on purpose. And some people here are surprised Glock didnt commit to this BS. 
FerFAL |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:19:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cannot wait to see what Magpul may come up with. And I cannot wait enough to see if someone goes ahead and makes a frame module with a built in light hoping for a contract with the US Army and Sig  I can't wait until someone comes up with a grip module that will make the P320 compatible with Glock mags. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:23:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, I see. That's interesting, thanks. So they just went full retard on purpose. And some people here are surprised Glock didnt commit to this BS.
FerFAL You guys know that Glock competed for MHS right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:26:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't wait until someone comes up with a grip module that will make the P320 compatible with Glock mags. Not physically possible, glock mags are too thick to fit through the FCU. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:42:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys know that Glock competed for MHS right? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 11:44:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But then why didn't it win?? http://images.8tracks.com/cover/i/000/638/234/bbnmm-9417.jpg?rect=142,0,717,717&q=98&fm=jpg&fit=max Because Glock submitted a non-modular handgun to the Modular Handgun pistol trials. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:03:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ill ask him what was up with the other submissions next time I see him. The conversation started because I happened to be holding an M2.0 in FDE at that particular moment and trying out the trigger, which seemed quite nice. He started talking about the p320 and how they had problems with the first group of guns similar to the FBI's experiences in their own trials and talked about the trigger pack failure on one of the guns. He said that the p320 was the only gun that was "truely modular" in the trials. He did say all the companies had failures though. It sounds like the whole program was a shitshow from the conversation. Fuck it. They got the Sig. I handled one again yesterday and not impressed. I prefer HK Or Glock Or..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:05:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because Glock submitted a non-modular handgun to the Modular Handgun pistol trials. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But then why didn't it win?? http://images.8tracks.com/cover/i/000/638/234/bbnmm-9417.jpg?rect=142,0,717,717&q=98&fm=jpg&fit=max Because Glock submitted a non-modular handgun to the Modular Handgun pistol trials. Glock as a company has designed and built one gun. They aren't equipped to design another. Maybe one day they will be, but right now they are a production and marketing company for the one gun. That being said, I can't blame them... it's been a very successful and profitable business plan. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:07:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock as a company has designed and built one gun. They aren't equipped to design another. Maybe one day they will be, but right now they are a production and marketing company for the one gun. That being said, I can't blame them... it's been a very successful and profitable business plan. Field trials. We shall see. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:10:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The P320 still has to undergo field trials. It could completely end up like the SCAR-L. Decent on paper and a shit show in the field. Same for the CSASS. Nothing is a success until it completely passes field and quality assurance trials, which oddly come after the procurement. It would be funny to see the gun completely fail in the field...What would happen? Would the Army backtrack and get the M9A3? Or would they pull an Indian Army and continue to issue a shit pistol(ala the INSAS). It sounds like the Army pushed the MHS even harder after Milley's criticism/recommendation to jump on the SOCOM Glock contract at an estimated 91 million dollar cost over the projected 320-520 million of the MHS program. To me it's typical bureaucracy, and they picked something to pick something. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:12:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That being said, I can't blame them... it's been a very successful and profitable business plan. Me neither. I'm a huge Glock fan (check the username). They've had a hell of a run, and I don't know if I'd ever recommend them radically changing the design. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:12:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Just a mere mention of it being a bad decision by Mattis will end it.
It could happen |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2017 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because Glock submitted a non-modular handgun to the Modular Handgun pistol trials. Could you quote the part of the RFP that asks for a modular frame? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
