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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:16:31 AM EDT
[#1]
FATF
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:18:10 AM EDT
[#2]
i always ordered them off their website and they would arrive within a business week. i've also always had them done for free at the PD. i always do the old ink pad style and there is nothing retained by the PD... what's the problem with this again?
eta: i see. a qualified person can no longer do it. only PD |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:18:22 AM EDT
[#3]
How would they know where they were completed?
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:19:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Uhhh... That's not how this works. The ATF would have to create new Forms 1 and 4 to make this change. To my knowledge, they haven't done that. That explosives FAQ is the same one that SilencerCo was pushing as "evidence" that Silencer Shop's kiosks were illegal.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:19:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i always ordered them off their website and they would arrive within a business week. i've also always had them done for free at the PD. i always do the old ink pad style and there is nothing retained by the PD... what's the problem with this again? The fact it exists at all. Maybe we should require fingerprinting before being allowed to vote |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:19:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would they know where they were completed? there's blocks on the cards that require the person doing the prints to fill out including who they represent. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:19:59 AM EDT
[#7]
What the fuck
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:20:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i always ordered them off their website and they would arrive within a business week. i've also always had them done for free at the PD. i always do the old ink pad style and there is nothing retained by the PD... what's the problem with this again? Some police departments wont do them because they are to "busy" or they charge an arm and a leg for it. Also under the previous finger print ruling they would allow you to do your own. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:20:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i always ordered them off their website and they would arrive within a business week. i've also always had them done for free at the PD. i always do the old ink pad style and there is nothing retained by the PD... what's the problem with this again? eta: i see. a qualified person can no longer do it. only PD Some police agencies refuse to do it for you |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:20:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Thats for Explosives License, FFL and FEL have always required law enforcement to take the prints.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:20:34 AM EDT
[#11]
This is in regards to Explosives Licensing.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:21:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats for Explosives License, FFL and FEL have always required law enforcement to take the prints. So this does or does not effect form 1 and form 4s? |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:22:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this does or does not effect form 1 and form 4s? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thats for Explosives License, FFL and FEL have always required law enforcement to take the prints. So this does or does not effect form 1 and form 4s? Defer to the language on the Form... Until that is changed, business as usual. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:22:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this does or does not effect form 1 and form 4s? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thats for Explosives License, FFL and FEL have always required law enforcement to take the prints. So this does or does not effect form 1 and form 4s? The Q&A wasnt changed for the form 1/4. So as of now nothing to worry about. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:22:23 AM EDT
[#15]
I have some of those very finger print cards on my desk right now. I am getting my fingerprints done this afternoon.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:22:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some police agencies refuse to do it for you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i always ordered them off their website and they would arrive within a business week. i've also always had them done for free at the PD. i always do the old ink pad style and there is nothing retained by the PD... what's the problem with this again? eta: i see. a qualified person can no longer do it. only PD Some police agencies refuse to do it for you Well now I think that there might be a case for suing them into doing prints for NFA via denial of a right. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:23:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Q&A wasnt changed for the form 1/4. So as of now nothing to worry about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thats for Explosives License, FFL and FEL have always required law enforcement to take the prints. So this does or does not effect form 1 and form 4s? The Q&A wasnt changed for the form 1/4. So as of now nothing to worry about. These little bastards make my head hurt 
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:24:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Silencershop has to be pissed about this. Weren't they making fingerprint kiosks for their dealers?
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:24:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would they know where they were completed? When I worked for my local PD (not as a cop, just a lowly nonsworn dreg), I would fingerprint the public. I would have to sign, and also stamp the PD's info onto the cards, and provide a written receipt. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:25:15 AM EDT
[#20]
I wonder if it is b/c all the new applications they got had some smudged up prints that couldn't be read.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:25:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is in regards to Explosives Licensing. Quote HistoryQuoted: This is in regards to Explosives Licensing. The Firearm Blog was made aware of this change in the law by a major (anonymous) gun store in the United States, who wrote to us: Last Friday 09/23/2016 The [business name] was made aware that there have been changes made to how fingerprints have to be done for NFA items. This change was made that morning. At the time were would fingerprint customers when sending off paperwork. This not longer is allowed by the ATF. Fingerprints must now be done by the local law enforcement authority. This information was conveyed to us by the gun store across the parking lot, [other business name]. It was brought to their attention by a customer who was looking to submit a Form 1. Neither of us have been contacted by the ATF so far to inform us to this change. It was out of pure chance that we were made aware and had this not happened we would have most definitely sent out fingerprint cards done by us internally which we had been doing. I don't know, sure that link is from the explosives side of it, but it seems like it's something they are pushing for in the NFA realm. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:28:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know, sure that link is from the explosives side of it, but it seems like it's something they are pushing for in the NFA realm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is in regards to Explosives Licensing. The Firearm Blog was made aware of this change in the law by a major (anonymous) gun store in the United States, who wrote to us:
Last Friday 09/23/2016 The [business name] was made aware that there have been changes made to how fingerprints have to be done for NFA items. This change was made that morning. At the time were would fingerprint customers when sending off paperwork. This not longer is allowed by the ATF. Fingerprints must now be done by the local law enforcement authority. This information was conveyed to us by the gun store across the parking lot, [other business name]. It was brought to their attention by a customer who was looking to submit a Form 1. Neither of us have been contacted by the ATF so far to inform us to this change. It was out of pure chance that we were made aware and had this not happened we would have most definitely sent out fingerprint cards done by us internally which we had been doing. I don't know, sure that link is from the explosives side of it, but it seems like it's something they are pushing for in the NFA realm. I read the article. The dealer heard from another dealer, who heard from a customer, etc. Most dealers are pretty clueless when it comes to NFA, customers, even more so. Again, it links to the FEL FAQ, which has always stated that. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:28:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silencershop has to be pissed about this. Weren't they making fingerprint kiosks for their dealers? Probably ATFs little fuck you for the truck load of forms they sent em before 41F |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:29:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Security Clearance fingerprints.......yawn
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:29:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know, sure that link is from the explosives side of it, but it seems like it's something they are pushing for in the NFA realm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is in regards to Explosives Licensing. The Firearm Blog was made aware of this change in the law by a major (anonymous) gun store in the United States, who wrote to us:
Last Friday 09/23/2016 The [business name] was made aware that there have been changes made to how fingerprints have to be done for NFA items. This change was made that morning. At the time were would fingerprint customers when sending off paperwork. This not longer is allowed by the ATF. Fingerprints must now be done by the local law enforcement authority. This information was conveyed to us by the gun store across the parking lot, [other business name]. It was brought to their attention by a customer who was looking to submit a Form 1. Neither of us have been contacted by the ATF so far to inform us to this change. It was out of pure chance that we were made aware and had this not happened we would have most definitely sent out fingerprint cards done by us internally which we had been doing. I don't know, sure that link is from the explosives side of it, but it seems like it's something they are pushing for in the NFA realm. Then where are the new Forms 1, 4, and 5? This sort of stuff is detailed in the instructions that come on the forms. Adopting new forms is not something that the ATF just does overnight. It took them like 3 months to get the post 41F forms ready for distribution. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:31:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silencershop has to be pissed about this. Weren't they making fingerprint kiosks for their dealers? Yeah, the S.I.D. http://www.silencershop.com/what-is-sid |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:35:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then where are the new Forms 1, 4, and 5? This sort of stuff is detailed in the instructions that come on the forms. Adopting new forms is not something that the ATF just does overnight. It took them like 3 months to get the post 41F forms ready for distribution. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is in regards to Explosives Licensing. The Firearm Blog was made aware of this change in the law by a major (anonymous) gun store in the United States, who wrote to us: Last Friday 09/23/2016 The [business name] was made aware that there have been changes made to how fingerprints have to be done for NFA items. This change was made that morning. At the time were would fingerprint customers when sending off paperwork. This not longer is allowed by the ATF. Fingerprints must now be done by the local law enforcement authority. This information was conveyed to us by the gun store across the parking lot, [other business name]. It was brought to their attention by a customer who was looking to submit a Form 1. Neither of us have been contacted by the ATF so far to inform us to this change. It was out of pure chance that we were made aware and had this not happened we would have most definitely sent out fingerprint cards done by us internally which we had been doing. I don't know, sure that link is from the explosives side of it, but it seems like it's something they are pushing for in the NFA realm. Then where are the new Forms 1, 4, and 5? This sort of stuff is detailed in the instructions that come on the forms. Adopting new forms is not something that the ATF just does overnight. It took them like 3 months to get the post 41F forms ready for distribution. If I end up just crying wolf, great! I rather be stupid than right when it comes to this. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:36:23 AM EDT
[#28]
I'm not getting on you, I'm actually a bit surprised to see TFB post this without any sort of verification.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:38:31 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:38:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Local PD does it for $5.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:39:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Local PD does it for $5. Not all will do it is the issue. Local PD here tells you to piss off and go to a 3rd party that isn't LEO affiliated |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:40:53 AM EDT
[#32]
So this has nothing to do with the general NFA stuff, just the Explosive stuff.
Man, people sure are desperate to drum up panics. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:41:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not all will do it is the issue. Local PD here tells you to piss off and go to a 3rd party that isn't LEO affiliated Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Local PD does it for $5. Not all will do it is the issue. Local PD here tells you to piss off and go to a 3rd party that isn't LEO affiliated The PD in the next town over doesn't do them. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:41:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I worked for my local PD (not as a cop, just a lowly nonsworn dreg), I would fingerprint the public. I would have to sign, and also stamp the PD's info onto the cards, and provide a written receipt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How would they know where they were completed? When I worked for my local PD (not as a cop, just a lowly nonsworn dreg), I would fingerprint the public. I would have to sign, and also stamp the PD's info onto the cards, and provide a written receipt. Not every local PD has such a stamp, and the ORI's are public info. I guarantee they didn't know who you were or what your signature looked like. The PD is also able to authorize anyone they want to conduct fingerprinting under their aegis. Like a private service. I was extremely good at rolling tenprints.  This was before they had machines and it was done with ink and a rubber roller on either glass or metal. I bet I could still do it and I've been out of uniform for ten years.
Today, the machines do it. When you go, it's just as easy to have them print multiple copies of your prints so you don't have to come back every time. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:47:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Just remembee this when you go to the polls.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:49:59 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there's blocks on the cards that require the person doing the prints to fill out including who they represent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How would they know where they were completed? there's blocks on the cards that require the person doing the prints to fill out including who they represent. When having a local PD do my prints one time we were BS'ing and he forgot to fill that little bit out and I didn't pay attention. Sent the paperwork in along with the fingerprint card and rejected...had to go back with the card and get that same officer to sign off on it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:01:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this has nothing to do with the general NFA stuff, just the Explosive stuff. Man, people sure are desperate to drum up panics. Just wait though, now that it's been published by the dummies who couldn't read and comprehend the difference between the explosives regs and the firearms regs, ATF will change the policy on Title II prints. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:02:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Story has been retracted:
Note to all readers. This information was in error. I had an attorney who represents many FFL’s across the country with license matters as well as NFA cases. I’ve consulted with him several times on these types of matters. He informed me there has been no change in the law or BATF policy. Local law enforcement does not have to do the fingerprints. So nothing has changed this was an error caused by some rather unclear information on the ATF website. My apologies for creating a stir. Phil |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:04:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Just published a blog article on the topic. I see they retracted the story. All they had to do was look at the link they cited to...
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:05:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Meh... Living in NJ I have to give fingerprints to the NJSP when I get my FPID then to the town PD when I go to pickup my initial permit from them.
So, not only does the NJSP have my fingerprints but so does the town. FATF though. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:21:48 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uhhh... That's not how this works. The ATF would have to create new Forms 1 and 4 to make this change. To my knowledge, they haven't done that. That explosives FAQ is the same one that SilencerCo was pushing as "evidence" that Silencer Shop's kiosks were illegal. Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:25:44 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Uhhh... That's not how this works. The ATF would have to create new Forms 1 and 4 to make this change. To my knowledge, they haven't done that. That explosives FAQ is the same one that SilencerCo was pushing as "evidence" that Silencer Shop's kiosks were illegal. Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? http://modernrifleman.net/2016/06/09/how-silencerco-is-undermining-silencer-shops-kiosk-program/ They're no longer saying this, but they were a few months ago. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:26:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Uhhh... That's not how this works. The ATF would have to create new Forms 1 and 4 to make this change. To my knowledge, they haven't done that. That explosives FAQ is the same one that SilencerCo was pushing as "evidence" that Silencer Shop's kiosks were illegal. Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? SilencerCo sent out an email to AcuSport earlier this year to warn retailers that the Kiosk was not an acceptable way to take fingerprints. They cited to the same link that TFB did for support of that proposition. I think I may still have the email in my inbox somewhere. Either way, they were wrong. Just like TFB. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:29:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How would they know where they were completed? There is a block on the front of the card for the official taking the prints to list their name and agency address. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:33:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://modernrifleman.net/2016/06/09/how-silencerco-is-undermining-silencer-shops-kiosk-program/ They're no longer saying this, but they were a few months ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Uhhh... That's not how this works. The ATF would have to create new Forms 1 and 4 to make this change. To my knowledge, they haven't done that. That explosives FAQ is the same one that SilencerCo was pushing as "evidence" that Silencer Shop's kiosks were illegal. Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? http://modernrifleman.net/2016/06/09/how-silencerco-is-undermining-silencer-shops-kiosk-program/ They're no longer saying this, but they were a few months ago. Good! But that's a dick move by Silencer Co. Those kiosks and the passport photo app make it easier for people to buy silencers. Don't fuck over gun owners Silencer Co! Come out with your own ideas and compete better. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:53:07 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SilencerCo sent out an email to AcuSport earlier this year to warn retailers that the Kiosk was not an acceptable way to take fingerprints. They cited to the same link that TFB did for support of that proposition. I think I may still have the email in my inbox somewhere. Either way, they were wrong. Just like TFB. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Uhhh... That's not how this works. The ATF would have to create new Forms 1 and 4 to make this change. To my knowledge, they haven't done that. That explosives FAQ is the same one that SilencerCo was pushing as "evidence" that Silencer Shop's kiosks were illegal. Wait, what? Silencer Co was pushing evidence that Silencer Shop's fingerprint kiosks were illegal? So they are what, trying to get the ATF to disallow the use of these kiosks? SilencerCo sent out an email to AcuSport earlier this year to warn retailers that the Kiosk was not an acceptable way to take fingerprints. They cited to the same link that TFB did for support of that proposition. I think I may still have the email in my inbox somewhere. Either way, they were wrong. Just like TFB. 
SilencerCo didn't realize they were kicking their own dicks in the dirt by bringing it up? Doesn't silencer shop move a boat load of their cans? |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:57:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SilencerCo didn't realize they were kicking their own dicks in the dirt by bringing it up? Doesn't silencer shop move a boat load of their cans? Used to. Pretty sure they severed ties a while back. I don't see any SiCo cans on SS's site. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:00:17 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Used to. Pretty sure they severed ties a while back. I don't see any SiCo cans on SS's site. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SilencerCo didn't realize they were kicking their own dicks in the dirt by bringing it up? Doesn't silencer shop move a boat load of their cans? Used to. Pretty sure they severed ties a while back. I don't see any SiCo cans on SS's site. Ah, that makes sense then. I buy locally so I don't venture over to silencershop much |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:01:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Used to. Pretty sure they severed ties a while back. I don't see any SiCo cans on SS's site. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SilencerCo didn't realize they were kicking their own dicks in the dirt by bringing it up? Doesn't silencer shop move a boat load of their cans? Used to. Pretty sure they severed ties a while back. I don't see any SiCo cans on SS's site. 
SilencerCo isn't the king of the popularity hill anymore |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:10:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not all will do it is the issue. Local PD here tells you to piss off and go to a 3rd party that isn't LEO affiliated Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Local PD does it for $5. Not all will do it is the issue. Local PD here tells you to piss off and go to a 3rd party that isn't LEO affiliated |
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