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Posted: 9/24/2016 1:48:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Says you. Other experts disagree. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 1:54:47 PM EDT
[#2]
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Keep in mind a small game animal is the size of a larger something far away. The shotgun works at hitting small stuff close because you have a foot or more spread. being precise with a rifle on small game in some ways translates to being able to hit bigger targets further away. Squirrel hunting with a rifle is about the best way ther is to get good at hitting stuff up close or further away IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 years ago I would have debated to the death that a shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon. After messing around with AR's for some time, I do recognize that they are easier to shoot, less recoil, easier to reload.....so now an AR is my go to. But I have still had this nagging loyalty to the shotgun. I have a couple stashed around the house, camp, and farm, and wouldn't feel unarmed should I have to use them. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to shoot a shotgun. Last night I was squirrel hunting. I was using a super accurate 10/22 International, with a 2-7x Leupold. It is my favorite squirrel set up. 3 grays came scampering down this huge oak, all at once. I didn't kill any of them. I choked on the first one, and then could not get a shot on the other 3. My first thought was had I been shooting a shotgun, I very well may have killed all 3. LIGHTBULB. It was then I realized where my loyalty to the shotgun comes from. Over 40 years of quick shooting at multiple targets, successfully. Whereas rifle shooting has been "crosshairs, shoulder, squeeze".....much more accurate, slow, and precise. So it is natural to at first think that should I need to quickly fight off one or more, the shotgun is best....thats my lifelong "training", right? Except that it doesn't apply to gun fighting, at least it is not a perfect overlay. Recoil, ease of reloading, ability to reach out beyond 30 yards precisely....AR wins. I know this is nothing earth shattering to many (most) of you. But it was to me. I actually said "oh shit" in my head. Off to shoot those 3 squirrels I missed out on last night.....  Keep in mind a small game animal is the size of a larger something far away. The shotgun works at hitting small stuff close because you have a foot or more spread. being precise with a rifle on small game in some ways translates to being able to hit bigger targets further away. Squirrel hunting with a rifle is about the best way ther is to get good at hitting stuff up close or further away IMO. So whats the math work out to on 1st round kills with a .22, through the vitals, on a running squirrel at 25 feet? |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 1:56:08 PM EDT
[#3]
All you gotta do is watch keanu run that AR with tori and jessica and you would know the AR is the one.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 1:58:25 PM EDT
[#4]
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All you gotta do is watch keanu run that AR with tori and jessica and you would know the AR is the one. most non-heinous |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 1:59:51 PM EDT
[#5]
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All you gotta do is watch keanu run that AR with tori and jessica and you would know the AR is the one. Watch him run a shotgun |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:06:43 PM EDT
[#6]
The fact that many on AR15.com would prefer an AR15 over a shotgun should not be much of a surprise. I bet on the Mustang forums many think that a Mustang is better than a Camaro .
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:09:06 PM EDT
[#7]
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Watch him run a shotgun Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All you gotta do is watch keanu run that AR with tori and jessica and you would know the AR is the one. Watch him run a shotgun I'd rather watch him run a football[/thereplacements] |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:11:44 PM EDT
[#8]
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I'd rather watch him run a football[/thereplacements] Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All you gotta do is watch keanu run that AR with tori and jessica and you would know the AR is the one. Watch him run a shotgun I'd rather watch him run a football[/thereplacements] Johnny Utah, punk quarterback |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:13:42 PM EDT
[#9]
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The part in red has no place in a shotgun vs. AR discussion. If you're trying to defend yourself in close quarters (e.g. the only possible use for a shotgun in self defense) then you need to be discussing unmagnified sights, preferably a red dot or holographic. Of course magnified optics are slower. Duh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 years ago I would have debated to the death that a shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon. After messing around with AR's for some time, I do recognize that they are easier to shoot, less recoil, easier to reload.....so now an AR is my go to. But I have still had this nagging loyalty to the shotgun. I have a couple stashed around the house, camp, and farm, and wouldn't feel unarmed should I have to use them. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to shoot a shotgun. Last night I was squirrel hunting. I was using a super accurate 10/22 International, with a 2-7x Leupold. It is my favorite squirrel set up. 3 grays came scampering down this huge oak, all at once. I didn't kill any of them. I choked on the first one, and then could not get a shot on the other 3. My first thought was had I been shooting a shotgun, I very well may have killed all 3. LIGHTBULB. It was then I realized where my loyalty to the shotgun comes from. Over 40 years of quick shooting at multiple targets, successfully. Whereas rifle shooting has been "crosshairs, shoulder, squeeze".....much more accurate, slow, and precise. So it is natural to at first think that should I need to quickly fight off one or more, the shotgun is best....thats my lifelong "training", right? Except that it doesn't apply to gun fighting, at least it is not a perfect overlay. Recoil, ease of reloading, ability to reach out beyond 30 yards precisely....AR wins. I know this is nothing earth shattering to many (most) of you. But it was to me. I actually said "oh shit" in my head. Off to shoot those 3 squirrels I missed out on last night..... The part in red has no place in a shotgun vs. AR discussion. If you're trying to defend yourself in close quarters (e.g. the only possible use for a shotgun in self defense) then you need to be discussing unmagnified sights, preferably a red dot or holographic. Of course magnified optics are slower. Duh. Nope. The squirrel rifle in question is 2-7x. It is cranked down to 2x almost 100% of the time. I was always taught to bring the scope up to where your eye is looking.....with this method 2x is not much different than 0x (to my eye anyway). My AR has a 1.5-4X on it, also always cranked down to it's lowest setting. I'm totally comfortable with it close and fast. Not directed at dillehayd, different subject.....but it's funny to come back to this thread several hours later and see how many folks commented without actually reading what I wrote  . It is also nice to see the guys I was arguing with on other shotgun threads completely understand what my point is though.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:17:40 PM EDT
[#10]
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I like shotguns way more than ar's What the problem is? Plus one. Multiple projectiles |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:34:05 PM EDT
[#11]
A) shotguns are super lame
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:36:59 PM EDT
[#12]
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Says you. Other experts disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Says you. Other experts disagree. Who are these "experts"? |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:38:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A) shotguns are super lame I guess all those police officers that carried them all those decades were defenseless. Every time I read these posts about the shotgun being good for nothing but birds I know I'm reading the opinion of someone who has never spent much time with one or has no real life experience with one and is just repeating what they have read on forums. I need to spend less time on the internet. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:42:55 PM EDT
[#14]
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I guess all those police officers that carried them all those decades were defenseless. Every time I read these posts about the shotgun being good for nothing but birds I know I'm reading the opinion of someone who has never spent much time with one or has no real life experience with one and is just repeating what they have read on forums. I need to spend less time on the internet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A) shotguns are super lame I guess all those police officers that carried them all those decades were defenseless. Every time I read these posts about the shotgun being good for nothing but birds I know I'm reading the opinion of someone who has never spent much time with one or has no real life experience with one and is just repeating what they have read on forums. I need to spend less time on the internet. This is the same thing i always say too. But someone will say that the cops carry ar15's now and not a shotgun and therefor the shotgun is useless for anything but bird hunting. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:44:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Most people are bigger than squirrels.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:46:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 years ago I would have debated to the death that a shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon. After messing around with AR's for some time, I do recognize that they are easier to shoot, less recoil, easier to reload.....so now an AR is my go to. But I have still had this nagging loyalty to the shotgun. I have a couple stashed around the house, camp, and farm, and wouldn't feel unarmed should I have to use them. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to shoot a shotgun. Last night I was squirrel hunting. I was using a super accurate 10/22 International, with a 2-7x Leupold. It is my favorite squirrel set up. 3 grays came scampering down this huge oak, all at once. I didn't kill any of them. I choked on the first one, and then could not get a shot on the other 3. My first thought was had I been shooting a shotgun, I very well may have killed all 3. LIGHTBULB. It was then I realized where my loyalty to the shotgun comes from. Over 40 years of quick shooting at multiple targets, successfully. Whereas rifle shooting has been "crosshairs, shoulder, squeeze".....much more accurate, slow, and precise. So it is natural to at first think that should I need to quickly fight off one or more, the shotgun is best....thats my lifelong "training", right? Except that it doesn't apply to gun fighting, at least it is not a perfect overlay. Recoil, ease of reloading, ability to reach out beyond 30 yards precisely....AR wins. I know this is nothing earth shattering to many (most) of you. But it was to me. I actually said "oh shit" in my head. Off to shoot those 3 squirrels I missed out on last night..... If three men break into your house, you are absolutely nuts if you choose a shotgun over an AR with a 30 round mag. I would take an AR over my Benelli that will hold 12 +1 rounds of 00 buckshot. Men aren't squirrels. Lol. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:48:24 PM EDT
[#17]
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The fact that many on AR15.com would prefer an AR15 over a shotgun should not be much of a surprise. I bet on the Mustang forums many think that a Mustang is better than a Camaro . This is the long and short of the whole damn thread. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:51:47 PM EDT
[#18]
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I guess all those police officers that carried them all those decades were defenseless. Every time I read these posts about the shotgun being good for nothing but birds I know I'm reading the opinion of someone who has never spent much time with one or has no real life experience with one and is just repeating what they have read on forums. I need to spend less time on the internet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A) shotguns are super lame I guess all those police officers that carried them all those decades were defenseless. Every time I read these posts about the shotgun being good for nothing but birds I know I'm reading the opinion of someone who has never spent much time with one or has no real life experience with one and is just repeating what they have read on forums. I need to spend less time on the internet. Cops carried six shooters too. Not to mention most cops are the worst marksmen on the planet. Ever seen an indoor range''s ceiling? Ask the owner who put all them holes up there. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 2:53:45 PM EDT
[#19]
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Preslicely.  This is what I've been trying to get thru to the "hurr durr AR be bestest fur evurthin!!11!! " crowd. For fast-moving targets (like ghetto rats invading your house), the shotgun reigns supreme. Yes, it tops out @ ~30-odd yards; is this a major problem? Were you planning on shooting perps beyond that? Remember, the longer the range, the harder the "I felt in danger of my life" argument is in front of a jury.
Yes, rifles can be better... FOR SOME SITUATIONS. That's why I keep a loaded AK handy. My go-to heavy, tho, is a plain-Jane, bone-stock Mossy 500 w/ pistol grip. Frankly, I think the myopic obsession some have with ARs comes more from "This is what all the kool kids roll with!!!11!!  " syndrome, rather than an objective, grown-up assessment of the realities of the situation.
Of course, YMMV, if you live in the country vs. city, etc.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It was then I realized where my loyalty to the shotgun comes from. Over 40 years of quick shooting at multiple targets, successfully. Whereas rifle shooting has been "crosshairs, shoulder, squeeze".....much more accurate, slow, and precise. Preslicely. This is what I've been trying to get thru to the "hurr durr AR be bestest fur evurthin!!11!! " crowd. For fast-moving targets (like ghetto rats invading your house), the shotgun reigns supreme. Yes, it tops out @ ~30-odd yards; is this a major problem? Were you planning on shooting perps beyond that? Remember, the longer the range, the harder the "I felt in danger of my life" argument is in front of a jury.
Yes, rifles can be better... FOR SOME SITUATIONS. That's why I keep a loaded AK handy. My go-to heavy, tho, is a plain-Jane, bone-stock Mossy 500 w/ pistol grip. Frankly, I think the myopic obsession some have with ARs comes more from "This is what all the kool kids roll with!!!11!! " syndrome, rather than an objective, grown-up assessment of the realities of the situation.
Of course, YMMV, if you live in the country vs. city, etc. Spread at ten to twenty feet will be negligible. I just don't think it's a good idea to rely on a tiny bit of spread to hit your target and in the real world it won't make any difference in a home invasion except that with an AR-15 if yup miss you still have 29 or more follow up shots you can take without reloading vs 6-7 with a shotgun. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:05:46 PM EDT
[#20]
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I personally see no need for a AR for home defense unless you are preparing for a mass mob attack. I think the over penetration and collateral damage possibilities with a center fire rifle are unacceptable unless your closest neighbor is a half a mile away. 
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:12:21 PM EDT
[#21]
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I had to help you out there....you forgot something.
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Except that it doesn't apply to gun fighting, at least it is not a perfect overlay. Recoil, ease of reloading, terminal ballistics, ability to reach out beyond 30 yards precisely....AR wins.
Terminal ballistics? You've never had to work autopsies. Home defense-ranged shotgun hits with buck or slug are the WORST. 5.56 doesn't even register on the same level.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:19:02 PM EDT
[#22]
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I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Funny. I'll bet I've spent more time in training (and live entries) than you. Not a bit of arrogance here, simply experience.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:22:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Wait....I thought bears were the primary threat.
Now its fucking squirrels? 
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:29:15 PM EDT
[#24]
When the Dems take over.....
Your ARs will be.....gone. Your hi-cap magazines will be.....gone. Your semi-auto firearms will be......gone. Your sniper/bolt actions will be.....gone. Your SG will probably be way down on the list. Besides, Uncle Joe likes SGs. LOL. When you think about it...... Your freedoms will be.......GONE. So, vote correctly. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:34:30 PM EDT
[#25]
I vote for squirrelmen
Allahu, Snack |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:37:40 PM EDT
[#26]
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So whats the math work out to on 1st round kills with a .22, through the vitals, on a running squirrel at 25 feet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 years ago I would have debated to the death that a shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon. After messing around with AR's for some time, I do recognize that they are easier to shoot, less recoil, easier to reload.....so now an AR is my go to. But I have still had this nagging loyalty to the shotgun. I have a couple stashed around the house, camp, and farm, and wouldn't feel unarmed should I have to use them. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to shoot a shotgun. Last night I was squirrel hunting. I was using a super accurate 10/22 International, with a 2-7x Leupold. It is my favorite squirrel set up. 3 grays came scampering down this huge oak, all at once. I didn't kill any of them. I choked on the first one, and then could not get a shot on the other 3. My first thought was had I been shooting a shotgun, I very well may have killed all 3. LIGHTBULB. It was then I realized where my loyalty to the shotgun comes from. Over 40 years of quick shooting at multiple targets, successfully. Whereas rifle shooting has been "crosshairs, shoulder, squeeze".....much more accurate, slow, and precise. So it is natural to at first think that should I need to quickly fight off one or more, the shotgun is best....thats my lifelong "training", right? Except that it doesn't apply to gun fighting, at least it is not a perfect overlay. Recoil, ease of reloading, ability to reach out beyond 30 yards precisely....AR wins. I know this is nothing earth shattering to many (most) of you. But it was to me. I actually said "oh shit" in my head. Off to shoot those 3 squirrels I missed out on last night..... Keep in mind a small game animal is the size of a larger something far away. The shotgun works at hitting small stuff close because you have a foot or more spread. being precise with a rifle on small game in some ways translates to being able to hit bigger targets further away. Squirrel hunting with a rifle is about the best way ther is to get good at hitting stuff up close or further away IMO. So whats the math work out to on 1st round kills with a .22, through the vitals, on a running squirrel at 25 feet? 1 in 3.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:37:41 PM EDT
[#27]
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Who are these "experts"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Says you. Other experts disagree. Who are these "experts"? https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4334-Home-Defense-Long-Guns |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:38:25 PM EDT
[#28]
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Funny. I'll bet I've spent more time in training (and live entries) than you. Not a bit of arrogance here, simply experience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Funny. I'll bet I've spent more time in training (and live entries) than you. Not a bit of arrogance here, simply experience. And what is your consensus? |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:39:02 PM EDT
[#29]
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When the Dems take over..... Your ARs will be.....gone. Your hi-cap magazines will be.....gone. Your semi-auto firearms will be......gone. Your sniper/bolt actions will be.....gone. Your SG will probably be way down on the list. Besides, Uncle Joe likes SGs. LOL. When you think about it...... Your freedoms will be.......GONE. So, vote correctly. Aloha, Mark
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:42:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryDid you read that entire post?... it's very much "pro-AR" over the shotgun. You basically have one "plus" for the shotgun: In an indoors static defensive role against a single violent assailant who was advancing on me, a 12 ga. shotgun would be my first choice. and all this favoring the AR: Keep in mind that over the past 20 years, the vast majority of the 5.56mm/.223 loads we tested have exhibited significantly less penetration than 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles after first penetrating through interior walls. Stray 5.56mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures, thus 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations, home defense scenarios, and in crowded urban environments than handgun service caliber or 12 ga. weapons. From an ergonomic and weapon manipulation standpoint, the AR15 is far superior to the other weapons, followed by the M1 carbine, and then distantly trailed by the shotgun and lever action carbine. Likewise, the AR15 is the most modular and allows the easiest mounting of various accessories. if multiple criminals were assaulting me, if a precision shot was required, if the assailant was wearing body armor, in a time of domestic unrest and upheaval with potentially large crowds of hostile individuals roaming about, or in situations that would require movement outdoors, then I would far prefer a magazine fed shoulder fired weapon capable of greater range, faster reloading, and greater ammunition capacity than a shotgun. In addition, of the shoulder fired weapons commonly used for self-defense, shotguns are the most difficult to effectively employ and require the most training to properly use. Most citizens would do well to follow the lead of LE agencies in their locale and pick similar weapons to what LE feels is prudent and necessary for defensive use against the criminals in that jurisdiction. Often times these days that is 9 mm or .40 pistols with a 15-17 round magazines and AR15's with 30 rd magazines. He does sound like an expert.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:47:48 PM EDT
[#31]
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Did you read that entire post?... it's very much "pro-AR" over the shotgun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Says you. Other experts disagree. Who are these "experts"? https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4334-Home-Defense-Long-Guns Did you read that entire post?... it's very much "pro-AR" over the shotgun. I've read that post more times than I can count. I was reinforcing what you said. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:53:34 PM EDT
[#32]
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I've read that post more times than I can count. I was reinforcing what you said. Oh. Never mind. I suck. 
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Posted: 9/24/2016 3:54:41 PM EDT
[#33]
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Oh. Never mind. I suck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've read that post more times than I can count. I was reinforcing what you said. Oh. Never mind. I suck.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 4:23:30 PM EDT
[#34]
I don't really understand the debate here. Shotguns work very well at short ranges; better than ARs.
ARs work well at short range, longer ranges, and in use against multiple assailants. If you are proficient with a shotgun, and you're defending a relatively small space, it's the preferable weapon. The AR fills more roles, but isn't as effective at closer ranges; but it's still very effective. The AR is more versatile. That takes nothing away from anyone that chooses a shotgun for its intended purpose, close quarters defense. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 4:35:38 PM EDT
[#35]
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Shotguns work very well at short ranges; better than ARs. False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 4:43:58 PM EDT
[#36]
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False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Shotguns work very well at short ranges; better than ARs. False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. So you saying a mag fed shotgun in the style of an AR is a better choice at close range? |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 4:44:04 PM EDT
[#37]
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False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Shotguns work very well at short ranges; better than ARs. False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. Seriously? Don't be that guy. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 4:58:16 PM EDT
[#38]
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So you saying a mag fed shotgun in the style of an AR is a better choice at close range? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Shotguns work very well at short ranges; better than ARs. False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. So you saying a mag fed shotgun in the style of an AR is a better choice at close range? Recoil.... |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#39]
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I personally see no need for a AR for home defense unless you are preparing for a mass mob attack.. Yea, because bad guys never work together or travel outside the bad parts of town to attack good people in their houses. Ever. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:04:55 PM EDT
[#40]
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So you saying a mag fed shotgun in the style of an AR is a better choice at close range? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Shotguns work very well at short ranges; better than ARs. False. Properly selected shotgun shells perform better than 5.56 at close ranges. But the guns that shoot them just aren't as good for fighting as are quality autoloading rifles. So you saying a mag fed shotgun in the style of an AR is a better choice at close range? No. You're still giving up capacity, precision, and follow-up shot speed. Not to mention there's no such thing as a box-mag fed shotgun that's reliable enough to fight with. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:05:50 PM EDT
[#41]
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If things are around that are as small and fast as squirrels and can still kill you... you're fucked anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm willing to bet that all the shotgun tards are the same tards that poo poo all over attending training courses. Training will help you overcome your deficiencies with your weapon. The fact that many here would choose an inferior weapon over training with a superior weapon speaks of their arrogance. The AR-15 is superior in nearly every way to a shotgun for home defense purposes. Training or no, a shotgun is better for squirrel hunting than a ar15 If things are around that are as small and fast as squirrels and can still kill you... you're fucked anyway. People eat squirrel and birdshot works wonderfully for killing them without detonating them. Ain't gonna be much of that squirrel left if you bean him with a 223... Even the bigger grays look like they were eating dynamite even with slower m855. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:07:33 PM EDT
[#42]
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People eat squirrel and birdshot works wonderfully for killing them without detonating them. Ain't gonna be much of that squirrel left if you bean him with a 223... Even the bigger grays look like they were eating dynamite even with slower m855. Fishing and trapping is way more efficient for gathering food than hunting small game. And won't deplete your ammo supply or let everyone with a few thousand yards know where you are. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:15:33 PM EDT
[#43]
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Fishing and trapping is way more efficient for gathering food than hunting small game. And won't deplete your ammo supply or let everyone with a few thousand yards know where you are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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People eat squirrel and birdshot works wonderfully for killing them without detonating them. Ain't gonna be much of that squirrel left if you bean him with a 223... Even the bigger grays look like they were eating dynamite even with slower m855. Fishing and trapping is way more efficient for gathering food than hunting small game. And won't deplete your ammo supply or let everyone with a few thousand yards know where you are. Wait, you talking survival situation? I'm talking about someone shooting squirrels and eating the things. Not for me personally, but people DO eat them and use birdshot to take them. Tried it once, it was okay. If it's going to be a survival situation I have a suppressed 22lr for that. Then again, I have a suppressor for a shotgun that is stupid quiet too... |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:27:05 PM EDT
[#44]
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Do they make these for the AR? If not, shotgun still rules.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxmKFld5DAI thought it was home defense, not home inferno. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 5:45:49 PM EDT
[#45]
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Don't forget about cost. Anyone that can fill out a 4473 can get a pump action 12 gauge from Walmart for under $200. That's a lot of money to some people, an AR is probably out of their range. 
If you aren't banging a hot heiress who's pulling 15Gs per month and doesn't think twice about cutting you a check for $25K to fund your gun habit then you're on the wrong forum, bud. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 6:20:08 PM EDT
[#46]
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I like shotguns way more than ar's 
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Posted: 9/24/2016 6:37:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never shot a clay round that kicked like buckshot. Never saw anyone shoot at clays with buckshot and hit anything. So his argument is tarded... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I say use whatever you want, but the idea that it's too hard to make fast follow up shots with a shotgun is silly. Go shoot double clays. You shoot clays with buckshot? You realize an ounce of shot is an ounce of shot right? If the velocity is equal shot size doesn't matter. I've never shot a clay round that kicked like buckshot. Never saw anyone shoot at clays with buckshot and hit anything. So his argument is tarded... The difference is a sporting shotgun is made and fitted to allow the shooter to handle the recoil of hundreds of rounds per day. I have shot well over a case per day and then did it again the next day, and the next. Your typical HD gun is shit when it comes to handling recoil. I recommend that everyone uses a gun that is fitted to them if possible. I bought the Magpul stock for my wifes 870 not because of any cool factor but because I could make the gun fit her better in case she needed to shoot something. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 6:55:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Every time I read these threads, I wonder how I was the only "kid that grew up in the country shooting shotguns all the time" that was able to learn how to be proficient with an AR15.
Maybe it's my superpower. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 7:01:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Election season has once again opened the Hitlerverse...
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Posted: 9/24/2016 7:07:17 PM EDT
[#50]
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Every time I read these threads, I wonder how I was the only "kid that grew up in the country shooting shotguns all the time" that was able to learn how to be proficient with an AR15. Maybe it's my superpower. Your not the only one....but my OP was kinda to that point. So many of us grew up with real experience shooting quick and moving critters, and a shotgun was the only possible choice. Hell, I shot a triple on woodcock one afternoon. Could I do that with an AR? Not likely. But the point of my post was that I (me, personally, don't care if someone disagrees) clung to that experience in debating AR vs shotgun. It's misapplied experience.... |
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