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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:37:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Ethiopa
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:43:47 PM EDT
[#2]
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I've been in enough religion threads with you rodent to know that you are here to antagonize; not to have an honest debate. Have a great day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. In fact, God originally created us perfectly to live forever; it was Satan who caused the fall of man. Looking to remedy this, God sent Christ to the world to save it, not to condemn it...for the world was already condemned. And God sent his son to serve us and to save it; he sent Jesus as a perfect sacrifice. In Matthew 23:12 Jesus said: "And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that humble himself shall be exalted." What evidence do you have that any of that is true? He has been banned for trolling religious threads....it's only a matter of time, he can't help himself. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#3]
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God creates man with a brain God calls men who use their brains 'swine' Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pearls before swine, my brothers. God creates man with a brain God calls men who use their brains 'swine' lol..the irony.... 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:47:06 PM EDT
[#4]
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Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man. It'll be SO AWESOME when you finally have a chance to say that to His face. Amirite? Just so you know--I'll be the guy off to the side, gratefully thanking God for His great mercy and loving-kindness, and meaning every word of it. "Loving-kindness." 
https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/008-God-created-Hell-300x300.jpg https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Hey+atheists+if+god+doesn+t+exist+then+how+come+he+_a8dd5e2e0632df6c582da5b45eb520d8.jpg https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/049-God-Logic-300x299.jpg https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/God-Saves.jpg Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. True, but the point still stands: Your "loving" God will send humans to Hell if they offend him. In fact, God originally created us perfectly to live forever; it was Satan who caused the fall of man. a. Humans were not created "perfectly to live forever." They were clearly created mortal, and would have had to eat from the Tree of Life in order to have extended life span. Also, even if they had eaten said fruit and achieved indefinite longevity, as biological life forms they would still have been subject to accidental injury and death. b. Satan could only do what God allowed -- or wanted -- him to do. Looking to remedy this, God sent Christ to the world to save it, not to condemn it...for the world was already condemned.
And God sent his son to serve us and to save it; he sent Jesus as a perfect sacrifice. Yup. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:47:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Last time I saw it ...
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:50:35 PM EDT
[#6]
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Beat me to it (by 5 pages) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There's a weird church in Ethiopia that claims to have it. Supposedly there is evidence to support their claim. Beat me to it (by 5 pages) They could easily prove their claim. That they refuse to do so pretty much puts their credibility at zero. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:52:06 PM EDT
[#7]
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I have trouble reconciling that with the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God. He didn't create it for us, but he knew before he created it that many of us would end up there. He created us perfectly, but he knew before he did so that Satan would cause us to fall. He allowed both to happen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. In fact, God originally created us perfectly to live forever; it was Satan who caused the fall of man. Looking to remedy this, God sent Christ to the world to save it, not to condemn it...for the world was already condemned. And God sent his son to serve us and to save it; he sent Jesus as a perfect sacrifice. I have trouble reconciling that with the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God. He didn't create it for us, but he knew before he created it that many of us would end up there. He created us perfectly, but he knew before he did so that Satan would cause us to fall. He allowed both to happen. Or made it happen. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:54:00 PM EDT
[#8]
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What evidence do you have that any of that is true? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. In fact, God originally created us perfectly to live forever; it was Satan who caused the fall of man. Looking to remedy this, God sent Christ to the world to save it, not to condemn it...for the world was already condemned. And God sent his son to serve us and to save it; he sent Jesus as a perfect sacrifice. What evidence do you have that any of that is true? Evidence? They don't do evidence. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:56:34 PM EDT
[#9]
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Evidence? They don't do evidence. You have to understand what evidence is before you can decide whether or not you have any. Your own words in this thread demonstrate that you have no idea what constitutes evidence. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:09:01 PM EDT
[#10]
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Well, to begin, Jeremiah 24. You have such a hatred for Christianity. You are really lowering yourself in this thread; not trying to be harsh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ironically, Jesus said He was this 'psychotic'. Why is that ironic? Jesus exhibited psychotic behavior when he lost his temper and killed a tree because it had no fruit out of season. There is so much ignorance in this statement...you should just stop. The fig tree represented ancient Israel. Jesus rebuked it for not receiving their Messiah. Yeah? Where in the Bible does it say that? Well, to begin, Jeremiah 24. You have such a hatred for Christianity. You are really lowering yourself in this thread; not trying to be harsh. Jeremiah 24 tells of a completely different event. Care to try again? Where does the Bible say that the incident in Mark 11 is what you claim it is, rather than what Jesus actually did? And I have no hatred for Christianity. I'm just puzzled and dismayed that otherwise intelligent people would accept such silliness as true. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:17:20 PM EDT
[#11]
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Jeremiah 24 tells of a completely different event. Care to try again? Where does the Bible say that the incident in Mark 11 is what you claim it is, rather than what Jesus actually did? And I have no hatred for Christianity. I'm just puzzled and dismayed that otherwise intelligent people would accept such silliness as true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jeremiah 24 tells of a completely different event. Care to try again? Where does the Bible say that the incident in Mark 11 is what you claim it is, rather than what Jesus actually did? And I have no hatred for Christianity. I'm just puzzled and dismayed that otherwise intelligent people would accept such silliness as true. I find it unlikely you read Jeremiah 24 and that is giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Jeremiah 24New International Version (NIV)
Two Baskets of Figs 24 After Jehoiachin[a] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and the officials, the skilled workers and the artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Lord showed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the Lord. 2 One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten. 3 Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?” “Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.” 4 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 5 “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.[b] 6 My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. 7 I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart. 8 “‘But like the bad figs, which are so bad they cannot be eaten,’ says the Lord, ‘so will I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain in this land or live in Egypt. 9 I will make them abhorrent and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a byword, a curse[c] and an object of ridicule, wherever I banish them. 10 I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.’” Jeremiah 24 Pretty interesting that a few decades from the incident with the fig tree, the Roman army utterly destroyed the city of Jerusalem and tore down Harod's Temple. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:23:41 PM EDT
[#12]
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You have to understand what evidence is before you can decide whether or not you have any. Your own words in this thread demonstrate that you have no idea what constitutes evidence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Evidence? They don't do evidence. You have to understand what evidence is before you can decide whether or not you have any. Your own words in this thread demonstrate that you have no idea what constitutes evidence. Let's go with: "that which serves to either support or counter a theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and interpreted in accordance with the scientific method". Okay, lay it on us! |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:28:56 PM EDT
[#13]
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Let's go with: "that which serves to either support or counter a theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and interpreted in accordance with the scientific method". Okay, lay it on us! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's go with: "that which serves to either support or counter a theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and interpreted in accordance with the scientific method". Okay, lay it on us! I agree. Please make sure Stanc reads and understands that. Earlier he said this: Quoted: Ancient writings describing events and things that can't be proven to have ever happened? No, I wouldn't call that evidence. Evidence can be examined and verified. Stories in the Bible cannot. Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:33:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Oak Island
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:35:14 PM EDT
[#15]
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How can you know perfect absolute holiness and goodness without evil? God gave us all free will. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. In fact, God originally created us perfectly to live forever; it was Satan who caused the fall of man. Looking to remedy this, God sent Christ to the world to save it, not to condemn it...for the world was already condemned. And God sent his son to serve us and to save it; he sent Jesus as a perfect sacrifice. I have trouble reconciling that with the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God. He didn't create it for us, but he knew before he created it that many of us would end up there. He created us perfectly, but he knew before he did so that Satan would cause us to fall. He allowed both to happen. How can you know perfect absolute holiness and goodness without evil? God gave us all free will. 
Would it have been better to never have created any of this? No earth? No angels? No fallen angels? No life? Nothingness? Who needs Earth, or angels? All of the shit that has gone down would've been easily avoided if God had just created us as perfect, non-corporeal beings like he himself reputedly is. Would also have saved God a lot of work, not having to create a universe and all the stuff in it. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:38:33 PM EDT
[#16]
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:44:08 PM EDT
[#17]
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https://cdn.meme.am/instances/57371261.jpg http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/3916409.jpg Who needs Earth, or angels? All of the shit that has gone down would've been easily avoided if God had just created us as perfect, non-corporeal beings like he himself reputedly is. Would also have saved God a lot of work, not having to create a universe and all the stuff in it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course you know that God never created hell for us; it was originally created for Satan and the other fallen angels. In fact, God originally created us perfectly to live forever; it was Satan who caused the fall of man. Looking to remedy this, God sent Christ to the world to save it, not to condemn it...for the world was already condemned. And God sent his son to serve us and to save it; he sent Jesus as a perfect sacrifice. I have trouble reconciling that with the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God. He didn't create it for us, but he knew before he created it that many of us would end up there. He created us perfectly, but he knew before he did so that Satan would cause us to fall. He allowed both to happen. How can you know perfect absolute holiness and goodness without evil? God gave us all free will. https://cdn.meme.am/instances/57371261.jpg http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/3916409.jpg Would it have been better to never have created any of this? No earth? No angels? No fallen angels? No life? Nothingness? Who needs Earth, or angels? All of the shit that has gone down would've been easily avoided if God had just created us as perfect, non-corporeal beings like he himself reputedly is. Would also have saved God a lot of work, not having to create a universe and all the stuff in it. If only God was as smart as you, this creation of His might have really been something..... 
(Seriously--are you actually that arrogant, presuming that YOU can clearly see flaws that God durr-hurr overlooked?) |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:49:26 PM EDT
[#18]
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I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? See how what works? If you say there is a dragon in your garage, that is a form of evidence with which we can examine your claim. That doesn't mean you have a dragon in your garage but then again you may have a dragon in your garage (a toy, a Komodo Dragon, artwork, etc). That fits within the definition you provided (Scientific evidence). Quoted:
Let's go with: "that which serves to either support or counter a theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and interpreted in accordance with the scientific method". Okay, lay it on us! This doesn't mean that which is said or observed is accurate or truthful but the mere fact the evidence is testimonial in nature does not mean it should be automatically dismissed. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:54:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Ethiopia.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:01:07 PM EDT
[#20]
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If only God was as smart as you, this creation of His might have really been something.....
(Seriously--are you actually that arrogant, presuming that YOU can clearly see flaws that God durr-hurr overlooked?) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have trouble reconciling that with the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God. He didn't create it for us, but he knew before he created it that many of us would end up there. He created us perfectly, but he knew before he did so that Satan would cause us to fall. He allowed both to happen. How can you know perfect absolute holiness and goodness without evil? God gave us all free will. https://cdn.meme.am/instances/57371261.jpg http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/3916409.jpg Would it have been better to never have created any of this? No earth? No angels? No fallen angels? No life? Nothingness? Who needs Earth, or angels? All of the shit that has gone down would've been easily avoided if God had just created us as perfect, non-corporeal beings like he himself reputedly is. Would also have saved God a lot of work, not having to create a universe and all the stuff in it. If only God was as smart as you, this creation of His might have really been something.....
(Seriously--are you actually that arrogant, presuming that YOU can clearly see flaws that God durr-hurr overlooked?) Meh. The flaws are readily apparent to anyone who looks at them without religious blinders on. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:09:12 PM EDT
[#21]
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See how what works? If you say there is a dragon in your garage, that is a form of evidence with which we can examine your claim. That doesn't mean you have a dragon in your garage but then again you may have a dragon in your garage (a toy, a Komodo Dragon, artwork, etc). That fits within the definition you provided (Scientific evidence). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? See how what works? If you say there is a dragon in your garage, that is a form of evidence with which we can examine your claim. That doesn't mean you have a dragon in your garage but then again you may have a dragon in your garage (a toy, a Komodo Dragon, artwork, etc). That fits within the definition you provided (Scientific evidence). Okay, let's try this again. I tell you, "I have a dragon in my garage." You have no evidence that this is so. On the contrary, you have logic and reason and experience telling you that it is not likely. Perhaps you will simply disregard my testimony, and it is safe to do so. As David Hume put it, always believe the "lesser miracle". But perhaps you will ask to see the dragon. If I decline to show you the dragon, if I tell you to just have faith, then you still have no empirical evidence. And now it's even more safe to disregard my testimony. If I open my garage door for you and there really IS a dragon in there, NOW you have evidence. NOW it's rational to believe my testimony. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:11:41 PM EDT
[#22]
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I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Except that (if we knew where you are) it'd be possible to check your garage to determine if there actually is a dragon. What we have here are people who centuries ago wrote a book telling us that they heard about a guy who claimed to have had a dragon in his garage. It's impossible to verify such a story. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:15:08 PM EDT
[#23]
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Meh. The flaws are readily apparent to anyone who looks at them without religious blinders on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If only God was as smart as you, this creation of His might have really been something.....
(Seriously--are you actually that arrogant, presuming that YOU can clearly see flaws that God durr-hurr overlooked?) Meh. The flaws are readily apparent to anyone who looks at them without religious blinders on. Except that you begin from the wrong starting point, EVERY TIME. lol. It seems to me that talking about the existence of God with you guys--it's kinda like trying to talk to liberals about gun control. You begin with flawed perceptions, a lack of personal experience and/or insight, add in some pridefulness and smug condescension--and there it is, you've got some smug clueless know-it-all ponce who thinks he/she can see it all so clearly, but who actually hasn't got the first clue. If you want to know if God exists, ASK him, in His mercy, to save you from your own pridefulness, and to show you what you need to do to be the man he wants you to be in this world. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:19:14 PM EDT
[#24]
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Except that (if we knew where you are) it'd be possible to check your garage to determine if there actually is a dragon. What we have here are people who centuries ago wrote a book telling us that they heard about a guy who claimed to have had a dragon in his garage. It's impossible to verify such a story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Except that (if we knew where you are) it'd be possible to check your garage to determine if there actually is a dragon. What we have here are people who centuries ago wrote a book telling us that they heard about a guy who claimed to have had a dragon in his garage. It's impossible to verify such a story. I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#25]
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I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Except that (if we knew where you are) it'd be possible to check your garage to determine if there actually is a dragon. What we have here are people who centuries ago wrote a book telling us that they heard about a guy who claimed to have had a dragon in his garage. It's impossible to verify such a story. I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. Maybe they lost the opener? It's a pain to reprogram one of those things if it's got all the little dip switches you have to match up. Especially if it's really old and the replacement opener is really new. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:26:53 PM EDT
[#26]
This may happen if you look at it:
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:27:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Except that (if we knew where you are) it'd be possible to check your garage to determine if there actually is a dragon. What we have here are people who centuries ago wrote a book telling us that they heard about a guy who claimed to have had a dragon in his garage. It's impossible to verify such a story. I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. Gotcha. Misunderstood what point you were addressing. 
I fully agree. They would make a helluva lot of people believers, if they'd prove that they actually have the Ark. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:28:35 PM EDT
[#28]
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Okay, let's try this again. I tell you, "I have a dragon in my garage." You have no evidence that this is so. On the contrary, you have logic and reason and experience telling you that it is not likely. Perhaps you will simply disregard my testimony, and it is safe to do so. As David Hume put it, always believe the "lesser miracle". But perhaps you will ask to see the dragon. If I decline to show you the dragon, if I tell you to just have faith, then you still have no empirical evidence. And now it's even more safe to disregard my testimony. If I open my garage door for you and there really IS a dragon in there, NOW you have evidence. NOW it's rational to believe my testimony. Your word, written or spoken, is testimony. That is a form of evidence. That evidence may be strong. It may be weak. It may be accurate. It may be inaccurate. It may be true. It may be false. All the same; the existence of that testimony is, in and of itself, evidence. If you wrote that you had a dragon in your garage and your neighbor came over and saw that dragon and he wrote that he saw the dragon and it was real and then 2,000 years lapsed between that point and the point where we found the stone tablets where we had your view and the view of your neighbors who saw the dragon, that would be evidence that someone saw a dragon. Does it mean that was a dragon in the mythical sense (i.e. Game of Thrones)? No. But that doesn't mean the people didn't see anything and that doesn't mean there is no evidence of the event. We then apply the methods we have at out disposal (our logic, deductive reasoning, experience, etc) and then work backwards the best we can to come up with an explanation. Was the person lying? Was the person using literary devices (metaphor, hyperbole, etc)? Or maybe something incredible. Maybe the person found the fossils of a dinosaur and, not knowing to call it that (because at the time it wasn't), they called it a dragon and painted its image on a vase. 
The point of all of this: written accounts of people who are long since dead should NOT be dismissed outright simply because we cannot, at this time, ascertain the validity of what they said with 100% accuracy. Given the limitations we have, that would be devastating and frankly foolish. This is especially important given the natural limitations we have (age, degradation, wars, etc) that make the preservation of physical evidence very, very difficult. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:30:37 PM EDT
[#29]
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Gotcha. Misunderstood what point you were addressing.
I fully agree. They would make a helluva lot of people believers, if they'd prove that they actually have the Ark. There are people who don't believe man walked on the moon and we have photographic and video evidence documenting that fact. All they would do by opening their doors is convince people they had a box in their possession. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:32:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryI'm willing to take the chance. I'll buy my own ticket to Ethiopia. I'll let someone video me for Youtube. [Sir Galahad] "Look, it's my duty as a knight to sample as much peril as I can." [/Sir Galahad] |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:34:59 PM EDT
[#31]
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I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. If they opened their doors and they had a very old box inside that looked like the one found in the Bible and they allowed people to examine the box and they found it to be really, really freaking old, would you believe? As I said earlier: we walked on the moon. That is a fact. It happened. We have pictures, videos, moon rocks / samples, etc. There are still people who think that entire event was fake. Seeing, often times, is not believing. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:44:17 PM EDT
[#32]
There is the Ethiopia church that claims to have it
or Ron Wyatt found it in Jeruselam |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:45:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no basement in the alamo!!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In the basement of the Alamo. There is no basement in the alamo!!!!! That is want they want you to think. So, which one of 'them' are you? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:07:56 PM EDT
[#34]
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If they opened their doors and they had a very old box inside that looked like the one found in the Bible and they allowed people to examine the box and they found it to be really, really freaking old, would you believe? As I said earlier: we walked on the moon. That is a fact. It happened. We have pictures, videos, moon rocks / samples, etc. There are still people who think that entire event was fake. Seeing, often times, is not believing. It should be pretty easy for a team of legitimate scientists to authenticate. It's supposed to contain Moses' Ten Commandments and the rod of Aaron and some oil and manna. At least two of those would be easy to date. If priests cross a river with it, the river is supposed to dry up as soon as they step in it, and refill as soon as they step out. That'd be easy to test. If it's taken from its rightful place, everybody is supposed to be afflicted with hemorrhoids and mice and boils. Unpleasant, but again, easy to test. Last but not least, the Lord is supposed to smite anyone who touches it. It might cost us a couple volunteers - for whom I'd feel badly - but, yeah, that'd convince me. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:12:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I personally believe that there have been so many things lost to history that it may have been destroyed in the numerous disasters of history. In the end the fact is that for Christians, it simply does not matter anymore since Jesus' sacrifice has created a new covenant. This. And I might add, His resurrection, proof of His Father's acceptance of it. https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/christian-belief-vik-religion-1384474908-300x269.jpg Cute meme to hide (actually trumpet before all of us) your ignorans of what the Bible says. You are free to decide (which you have obviously done so), but being as you trumpet yourself as being so wise, don't you think you should at least actually read the book? In numerous threads, you have made your disdain and derision for both the faith and the believers, at the same time, you have made it very apparent that you are entirely ignorant about what you are mocking. You come across as a 2 year old making fun of Einstein's theory of special relativitity. Congrats for outing yourself, I guess. Nick |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:31:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They could easily prove their claim. That they refuse to do so pretty much puts their credibility at zero. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's a weird church in Ethiopia that claims to have it. Supposedly there is evidence to support their claim. Beat me to it (by 5 pages) They could easily prove their claim. That they refuse to do so pretty much puts their credibility at zero. Maybe they don't care what YOU think. That has to gall you, that these poor, simple Ethiopians just don't think they have to prove anything to you. Nick |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:38:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It should be pretty easy for a team of legitimate scientists to authenticate. It's supposed to contain Moses' Ten Commandments and the rod of Aaron and some oil and manna. At least two of those would be easy to date. If priests cross a river with it, the river is supposed to dry up as soon as they step in it, and refill as soon as they step out. That'd be easy to test. If it's taken from its rightful place, everybody is supposed to be afflicted with hemorrhoids and mice and boils. Unpleasant, but again, easy to test. Last but not least, the Lord is supposed to smite anyone who touches it. It might cost us a couple volunteers - for whom I'd feel badly - but, yeah, that'd convince me. Aside from the fact that I read the name Aaron as A - A ron (thank you Key & Peele), all of those magical powers that people mistakenly assign to the Ark, if you go by the text, were actually God working through the Ark. So I mean, it would just be a box today and none of that stuff should happen. Kind of like people who walked into the Holy of Holies would be struck dead in Solomon's Temple (and I assume Harod's Temple)? Yeah, people have probably unknowingly passed through that space and not died after Titus went all Hulk Smash on it. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:41:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. Please make sure Stanc reads and understands that. Earlier he said this: Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let's go with: "that which serves to either support or counter a theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and interpreted in accordance with the scientific method". Okay, lay it on us! I agree. Please make sure Stanc reads and understands that. Earlier he said this: Quoted: Ancient writings describing events and things that can't be proven to have ever happened? No, I wouldn't call that evidence. Evidence can be examined and verified. Stories in the Bible cannot. Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. Except that what we have here is not even testimonial evidence. In the case of ancient texts, it is unsubstantiated, second hand reports of unsubstantiated claims which are impossible to verify. In the case of the Ethiopian church, it is unsubstantiated claims which no one is allowed to verify. Evidence can be examined and evaluated. Unverifiable claims cannot. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:41:54 PM EDT
[#39]
While there was only one "Ark" other devices of its nature existed. Most seemed to be purposely destroyed.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:47:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that you begin from the wrong starting point, EVERY TIME. lol. It seems to me that talking about the existence of God with you guys--it's kinda like trying to talk to liberals about gun control. You begin with flawed perceptions, a lack of personal experience and/or insight, add in some pridefulness and smug condescension--and there it is, you've got some smug clueless know-it-all ponce who thinks he/she can see it all so clearly, but who actually hasn't got the first clue. If you want to know if God exists, ASK him, in His mercy, to save you from your own pridefulness, and to show you what you need to do to be the man he wants you to be in this world. But if God doesn't answer, that doesn't mean anything one way or the other. 
You're projecting. Badly. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:48:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cute meme to hide (actually trumpet before all of us) your ignorans of what the Bible says. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I personally believe that there have been so many things lost to history that it may have been destroyed in the numerous disasters of history. In the end the fact is that for Christians, it simply does not matter anymore since Jesus' sacrifice has created a new covenant. This. And I might add, His resurrection, proof of His Father's acceptance of it. https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/christian-belief-vik-religion-1384474908-300x269.jpg Cute meme to hide (actually trumpet before all of us) your ignorans of what the Bible says. Cute, yes. Accurate, too. You are free to decide (which you have obviously done so), but being as you trumpet yourself as being so wise, don't you think you should at least actually read the book?  Reading it is what led to my opinions of it.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:49:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe they don't care what YOU think. That has to gall you, that these poor, simple Ethiopians just don't think they have to prove anything to you.
Nick Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a weird church in Ethiopia that claims to have it. Supposedly there is evidence to support their claim. Beat me to it (by 5 pages) They could easily prove their claim. That they refuse to do so pretty much puts their credibility at zero. Maybe they don't care what YOU think. That has to gall you, that these poor, simple Ethiopians just don't think they have to prove anything to you.
Nick And they haven't - it's WIN/WIN! |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:52:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe they don't care what YOU think. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a weird church in Ethiopia that claims to have it. Supposedly there is evidence to support their claim. Beat me to it (by 5 pages) They could easily prove their claim. That they refuse to do so pretty much puts their credibility at zero. Maybe they don't care what YOU think. Meh. I'm sure they're totally ignorant of my existence. That has to gall you, that these poor, simple Ethiopians just don't think they have to prove anything to you. Illogical statement. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:53:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Pretty sure I just saw it this past spring
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:53:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aside from the fact that I read the name Aaron as A - A ron (thank you Key & Peele), all of those magical powers that people mistakenly assign to the Ark, if you go by the text, were actually God working through the Ark. So I mean, it would just be a box today and none of that stuff should happen. Kind of like people who walked into the Holy of Holies would be struck dead in Solomon's Temple (and I assume Harod's Temple)? Yeah, people have probably unknowingly passed through that space and not died after Titus went all Hulk Smash on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It should be pretty easy for a team of legitimate scientists to authenticate. It's supposed to contain Moses' Ten Commandments and the rod of Aaron and some oil and manna. At least two of those would be easy to date. If priests cross a river with it, the river is supposed to dry up as soon as they step in it, and refill as soon as they step out. That'd be easy to test. If it's taken from its rightful place, everybody is supposed to be afflicted with hemorrhoids and mice and boils. Unpleasant, but again, easy to test. Last but not least, the Lord is supposed to smite anyone who touches it. It might cost us a couple volunteers - for whom I'd feel badly - but, yeah, that'd convince me. Aside from the fact that I read the name Aaron as A - A ron (thank you Key & Peele), all of those magical powers that people mistakenly assign to the Ark, if you go by the text, were actually God working through the Ark. So I mean, it would just be a box today and none of that stuff should happen. Kind of like people who walked into the Holy of Holies would be struck dead in Solomon's Temple (and I assume Harod's Temple)? Yeah, people have probably unknowingly passed through that space and not died after Titus went all Hulk Smash on it. So the magic doesn't work any longer. I'm shocked - SHOCKED! What are we to make of this? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:58:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that what we have here is not even testimonial evidence. In the case of ancient texts, it is unsubstantiated, second hand reports of unsubstantiated claims which are impossible to verify. In the case of the Ethiopian church, it is unsubstantiated claims which no one is allowed to verify. Evidence can be examined and evaluated. Unverifiable claims cannot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that what we have here is not even testimonial evidence. In the case of ancient texts, it is unsubstantiated, second hand reports of unsubstantiated claims which are impossible to verify. In the case of the Ethiopian church, it is unsubstantiated claims which no one is allowed to verify. Evidence can be examined and evaluated. Unverifiable claims cannot. Testimonial Evidence Testimonial Evidence is a person's testimony offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted. Especially, evidence elicited from a witness. This is also termed communicative evidence. Testimonial Evidence evidence given in writing or speech or in another way that expresses the person's thoughts
compare physical evidence in this entry Testimonial Evidence In the law, testimony is a form of evidence that is obtained from a witness who makes a solemn statement or declaration of fact. Testimony may be oral or written, and it is usually made by oath or affirmation under penalty of perjury. Testimonial Evidence Written or oral assertion offered as proof of truth in court. Includes hearsay and testimony. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:59:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the magic doesn't work any longer. I'm shocked - SHOCKED! If you followed the Old Testament, the magic stopped working many thousands of years ago well before the box disappeared So not so shocking after all. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:59:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aside from the fact that I read the name Aaron as A - A ron (thank you Key & Peele), all of those magical powers that people mistakenly assign to the Ark, if you go by the text, were actually God working through the Ark. So I mean, it would just be a box today and none of that stuff should happen. Kind of like people who walked into the Holy of Holies would be struck dead in Solomon's Temple (and I assume Harod's Temple)? Yeah, people have probably unknowingly passed through that space and not died after Titus went all Hulk Smash on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It should be pretty easy for a team of legitimate scientists to authenticate. It's supposed to contain Moses' Ten Commandments and the rod of Aaron and some oil and manna. At least two of those would be easy to date. If priests cross a river with it, the river is supposed to dry up as soon as they step in it, and refill as soon as they step out. That'd be easy to test. If it's taken from its rightful place, everybody is supposed to be afflicted with hemorrhoids and mice and boils. Unpleasant, but again, easy to test. Last but not least, the Lord is supposed to smite anyone who touches it. It might cost us a couple volunteers - for whom I'd feel badly - but, yeah, that'd convince me. Aside from the fact that I read the name Aaron as A - A ron (thank you Key & Peele), all of those magical powers that people mistakenly assign to the Ark, if you go by the text, were actually God working through the Ark. So I mean, it would just be a box today and none of that stuff should happen. Kind of like people who walked into the Holy of Holies would be struck dead in Solomon's Temple (and I assume Harod's Temple)? Yeah, people have probably unknowingly passed through that space and not died after Titus went all Hulk Smash on it. Its a device. After a few centuries whatever powered it might have went dry. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:06:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe they lost the opener? It's a pain to reprogram one of those things if it's got all the little dip switches you have to match up. Especially if it's really old and the replacement opener is really new. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Testimonial evidence is evidence. We are argue over the strength or validity or whatnot of that evidence but it is still evidence. I have a dragon in my garage. See how that works? Except that (if we knew where you are) it'd be possible to check your garage to determine if there actually is a dragon. What we have here are people who centuries ago wrote a book telling us that they heard about a guy who claimed to have had a dragon in his garage. It's impossible to verify such a story. I used that example because some here are telling us that the Ark of the Covenant is in a little church in Ethiopia. If this is true, those Ethiopian priests could make people like you and I believers, they could save us and billions more from an eternity of torture, just by opening their garage door. Maybe they lost the opener? It's a pain to reprogram one of those things if it's got all the little dip switches you have to match up. Especially if it's really old and the replacement opener is really new. They lost one of the openers and without both original openers its cost like $300 to get a new spare opener programmed. Who has that kind of money? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:06:49 PM EDT
[#50]
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