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Posted: 8/25/2016 3:25:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They'll just close and re-open as Totally Gnarly Firearms. Bodacious Blasterz |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 3:43:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who was it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meh....I had a manufacturer tell me they would sue me if I advised what happened with a poorly made part they sold me. Broke in the first 30rds and was fed the line "Our stuff doesn't break so you have to be lying and if any word of this is mentioned we will sue you for libel". They never even asked me what had happened and I actually wasn't upset until they threatened me. Who was it?  |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 3:46:09 AM EDT
[#3]
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They'll just close and re-open as Totally Gnarly Firearms. Maybe something more cool, hip, and edgy like Totes Gnarles Firearmz! Lol! 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 6:17:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have absolute trust in the reviewer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Firearms Blog is getting more in depth with this than I am. At this point I am just presenting the facts as presented to me. I am not the reviewer, I run P&S. I assigned the review to the reviewer. We had our members wondering about our review and out of the blue the designated reviewer announced he won't be conducting the review nor will he do any further business with that company. What I posted today was clarification for those who didn't know what had occurred. The beginnings of a review is on our FB group. The gun just plain being out of spec halted the process from being done as we wanted. Radical was going to fix the issues so we could continue the review, but we would still address the initial issues. I am happy to continue to help shed light on this whole debacle. Can you confirm radical arocked the reviewer? I have absolute trust in the reviewer. What happened to "trust but verify"? Can you provide screenshots of the reviewers contact with RF regarding the draft review and informing them the rifle failed? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 6:56:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Dick move on their part. Only made the matter worse.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:12:44 AM EDT
[#6]
My friend recently got one of their $500 carbines, runs like a top. I have had my RF pistol upper since June 2014, lots of people with little or no experience seem to enjoy bashing RF for sport.
Interesting lives they must lead. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:31:03 AM EDT
[#7]
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I know about soldier systems but what is this reference to primary and secondary? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I stopped going to Primary & Secondary and Soldier systems when gun grabbing Hitlery visted team Wendy . That whole debacle was an eye opener. They were cross linking between sites with same message. It was posted in the long team Wendy thread. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:37:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happened to "trust but verify"? Can you provide screenshots of the reviewers contact with RF regarding the draft review and informing them the rifle failed? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Firearms Blog is getting more in depth with this than I am. At this point I am just presenting the facts as presented to me. I am not the reviewer, I run P&S. I assigned the review to the reviewer. We had our members wondering about our review and out of the blue the designated reviewer announced he won't be conducting the review nor will he do any further business with that company. What I posted today was clarification for those who didn't know what had occurred. The beginnings of a review is on our FB group. The gun just plain being out of spec halted the process from being done as we wanted. Radical was going to fix the issues so we could continue the review, but we would still address the initial issues. I am happy to continue to help shed light on this whole debacle. Can you confirm radical arocked the reviewer? I have absolute trust in the reviewer. What happened to "trust but verify"? Can you provide screenshots of the reviewers contact with RF regarding the draft review and informing them the rifle failed? He just verified? He doesn't have to provide documentation. They've already provided a copy of the initial email from radical. The last contact was in person with his boss at work so how would that be documented? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:42:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you want a lawsuit? Cuz that's how you get a lawsuit
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh....I had a manufacturer tell me they would sue me if I advised what happened with a poorly made part they sold me. Broke in the first 30rds and was fed the line "Our stuff doesn't break so you have to be lying and if any word of this is mentioned we will sue you for libel". They never even asked me what had happened and I actually wasn't upset until they threatened me. Who was it?
Didn't mention who it was. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:46:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck those guys. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:00:24 AM EDT
[#11]
operation pix and NSFW spokes model
http://www.breachbangclear.com/radical-firearms/ "We went from one guy in a 400 square foot storefront, to five employees in a three thousand square foot office, to over fifty employees in a fifteen thousand square foot facility, in less than three years,” Dave Spector tells us flatly. He doesn’t seem to be boasting though that’s a helluva lotta growth. "This was a zero-dollar business when it started, now it’s worth 25 million.” Dave and Chris gave an example of how they keep prices down: forged components are considered cheap, while parts machined from billet aluminum are expected to be more expensive. But Dave explains, "Billet parts are barely more expensive to machine than forge. And the machining takes maybe three to four more minutes per part. So we can sell a high-quality, usually expensive billet part for just a little more than an inexpensive forged part.” |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:01:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were people buying them before? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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and now no one will buy their firearms. morons. Were people buying them before? Good question, I have no idea. Why does Radical Firearms get so much attention here? Are they shady? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:06:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As was I....by a cop. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Speaking as someone who was Arocked, it's not fun. As was I....by a cop. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:07:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As was I, by a mod here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Speaking as someone who was Arocked, it's not fun. As was I....by a cop. As was I, by a mod here. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:07:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were cross linking between sites with same message. It was posted in the long team Wendy thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I stopped going to Primary & Secondary and Soldier systems when gun grabbing Hitlery visted team Wendy . That whole debacle was an eye opener. They were cross linking between sites with same message. It was posted in the long team Wendy thread. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:20:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the whole other side of it...you need a "team" As a gunsmith I have classes on metallurgy, materials, and believe it or not part sourcing and working with vendors. In the industry I have met a lot of engineers, tqm/QC managers, machinist, tool and die makers etc that could not make a gun run for the life of them... Hence a team is needed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In the tech forums, there have been numerous instances of barrels unscrewing under fire, or untorquing easily from the extensions with muzzle device removal. I have just stood by watching to see how they handle it all. Sounds like a company going through some serious growing pains, without the proper technical expertise to address component selection, materials science, and total quality management. Customer service seems to be hit and miss, with forum members who have visited the location for service saying they wouldn't buy anymore after seeing the condition of their business. A lot of companies that have started up in the past 10 - 15 years refuse to higher a school trained gunsmith because they don't feel it is worth the cost. A lot of companies hire school-trained gunsmiths and no engineers who know ME and firearms, thinking they can just ride the AR15 parts bandwagon. A gunsmith will not be able to run a materials science or TQM program, unless he has training in metallurgy, parts specification to vendors, test equipment, and a bunch of other disciplines they might talk about in gunsmith school, but are outside of the scope of the courses out there. There are MEs who still don't have the appropriate training for this, and yet still basically do OJT, re-learn a lot of lessons that were already known by 1964, or don't learn those lessons. Hiring quality people takes money. Some hick owner isn't going to want to pay that kind of money to make his business successful in the long run, so he's going to cut corners at every opportunity, thinking he's got this. People don't know what they don't know, and drive on with what they think is enough. Good luck to you if that's your approach. I spent several days this summer talking with John Paul from JP Enterprises. One of the first things he did when he got into AR15 parts was hire an engineer to help him design and mature a muzzle break for the AR15. He has always had competent engineering staff, and as a result, his products are some of the most successful in the market. That's the whole other side of it...you need a "team" As a gunsmith I have classes on metallurgy, materials, and believe it or not part sourcing and working with vendors. In the industry I have met a lot of engineers, tqm/QC managers, machinist, tool and die makers etc that could not make a gun run for the life of them... Hence a team is needed. Let's me guess........ 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:21:34 AM EDT
[#17]
That's fucked.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:24:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What their sales manager did wasn't indicative of growing pains; it was indicative of him being a dick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In the tech forums, there have been numerous instances of barrels unscrewing under fire, or untorquing easily from the extensions with muzzle device removal. I have just stood by watching to see how they handle it all. Sounds like a company going through some serious growing pains, without the proper technical expertise to address component selection, materials science, and total quality management. Customer service seems to be hit and miss, with forum members who have visited the location for service saying they wouldn't buy anymore after seeing the condition of their business. What their sales manager did wasn't indicative of growing pains; it was indicative of him being a dick. This. People didn't buy a radical barrel/part expecting LaRue quality. They bought it because it was cheap. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:25:37 AM EDT
[#19]
In.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:28:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My friend recently got one of their $500 carbines, runs like a top. I have had my RF pistol upper since June 2014, lots of people with little or no experience seem to enjoy bashing RF for sport. Interesting lives they must lead. same here and several friends have them as well. that said all of ours are a few years old and it really does seem like their quality was a good bit higher then. some of the QC issues i have seen on later rifles were not pretty. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:30:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryWe figured out that high price didn’t equal high quality,” says Dave Spector, managing partner of Radical Firearms. “We were getting high-priced components from big-name manufacturers, to build rifles that cost three to six thousand dollars. And sometimes even the most basic components weren’t right. We’d get parts way out of tolerance, and sometimes we’d even have problems with tolerance stacking, where two parts that fit together were both off. We didn’t want to sell expensive rifles with quality control problems.” So they sell inexpensive rifles with QC problems. Genius! 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:32:43 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So they have both quality rifles and junk ones, and neither is any good? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:36:46 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm buying whatever she's selling!
http://www.breachbangclear.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Leanna-Decker-Radical-Firearms-4.jpg 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:45:43 AM EDT
[#24]
I bought one of their uppers from Primary Arms I think two years ago, it has been ok, no problems, now I am sorry I bought it.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:55:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold up a hood, prop open a door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Crap, I bought two of their barrels for 99 bucks each from Primary Arms a week ago. Wonder if they will hold up? Hold up a hood, prop open a door. I bought a 14.5" middy barrel and it wasn't accurate enough to sight in. Tried everything too. Contacted RF and they said they would look at it to determine what's the problem and asked for a receipt. I sent them a receipt and never could get in contact with them again. Assholes. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:57:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Interesting.
I've got one of their pistols. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:58:38 AM EDT
[#27]
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Interesting. I've got one of their pistols. Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:59:43 AM EDT
[#28]
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Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting. I've got one of their pistols. Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? They're junk and have bad CS. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:17:30 AM EDT
[#29]
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They're junk and have bad CS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting. I've got one of their pistols. Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? They're junk and have bad CS. Well, that's what everyone says.... but I've owned two, and never had an issue. Not to say there aren't issues, but I wonder if this is just a lot of hype. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:24:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting. I've got one of their pistols. Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? Because there's literally nothing the American shooting community won't buy if it's $5 cheaper, no matter how shitty it is. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:25:16 AM EDT
[#31]
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Because there's literally nothing the American shooting community won't buy if it's $5 cheaper, no matter how shitty it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Interesting. I've got one of their pistols. Why do I see so many threads about Radical Firearms..........cliff notes? Because there's literally nothing the American shooting community won't buy if it's $5 cheaper, no matter how shitty it is. So true. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:27:12 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, that's what everyone says.... but I've owned two, and never had an issue. Not to say there aren't issues, but I wonder if this is just a lot of hype. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............... They're junk and have bad CS. Well, that's what everyone says.... but I've owned two, and never had an issue. Not to say there aren't issues, but I wonder if this is just a lot of hype. I see, people think they build some crap. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:30:20 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see, people think they build some crap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............... They're junk and have bad CS. Well, that's what everyone says.... but I've owned two, and never had an issue. Not to say there aren't issues, but I wonder if this is just a lot of hype. I see, people think they build some crap. Do you know if there is any compelling evidence to support systemic issues? I mean, the fact that they sell $400 ARs would indicate that they'll likely have a higher percentage of issues when compared to say, Spikes or BMC. My question would be, how much of a higher percentage? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:31:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
................ Do you know if there is any compelling evidence to support systemic issues? I mean, the fact that they sell $400 ARs would indicate that they'll likely have a higher percentage of issues when compared to say, Spikes or BMC. My question would be, how much of a higher percentage? I have ABSOLUTELY no idea. I have never even been to their website. I have seen a lot of threads about them but never read them. I simply do not know. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:33:27 AM EDT
[#35]
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I have ABSOLUTELY no idea. I have never even been to their website. I have seen a lot of threads about them but never read them. I simply do not know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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................ Do you know if there is any compelling evidence to support systemic issues? I mean, the fact that they sell $400 ARs would indicate that they'll likely have a higher percentage of issues when compared to say, Spikes or BMC. My question would be, how much of a higher percentage? I have ABSOLUTELY no idea. I have never even been to their website. I have seen a lot of threads about them but never read them. I simply do not know. Copy that, I should have directed my question to p226guy. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:34:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............ Copy that, I should have directed my question to p226guy. I've gotten fairly proficient at assembling AR's from parts over the years and just do that for the most part nowadays. I do ask for advice and recommendations on where to buy parts though. A lot of good advice on suppliers, etc., is given here IMHO. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:38:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've gotten fairly proficient at assembling AR's from parts over the years and just do that for the most part nowadays. I do ask for advice and recommendations on where to buy parts though. A lot of good advice on suppliers, etc., is given here IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............ Copy that, I should have directed my question to p226guy. I've gotten fairly proficient at assembling AR's from parts over the years and just do that for the most part nowadays. I do ask for advice and recommendations on where to buy parts though. A lot of good advice on suppliers, etc., is given here IMHO. Agreed. Lots of dudes more knowledgeable than I. I can build them, and do most any work on them, but I wouldn't be able to take one apart and tell you if it's "shitty quality" unless it were really obvious. I will say that I wouldn't purposefully take a $400 AR into a gunfight. But they'll do okay for a trunk gun or a range toy for the kiddos. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:38:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because there's literally nothing the American shooting community won't buy if it's $5 cheaper, no matter how shitty it is. QFT. Most gun-guys are cheap-asses who buy crappy junk and then bitch about it on the internet. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:45:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Interesting thread,.
Due to their price points I have been skeptical and have never purchased any of their parts or assembled items, just seemed too cheap. It was just a gut feeling, nothing more. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:46:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Reviewers and their drama.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:47:07 AM EDT
[#41]
Also, isn't this stretching the definition of "getting AROCKed"?
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:48:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reviewers and their drama. Arocking a guy at his day job is a legitimate thing to do? If as reported, this lies solely on RF! I think they must have graduated from the FireClean school of business. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:48:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, isn't this stretching the definition of "getting AROCKed"? There appears to be an elevated amount of stretching, and a notable absence of facts, which is pretty common when broadly shitting on vendors. *note that it may very well be justified here, I simply don't know |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:49:35 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............. Agreed. Lots of dudes more knowledgeable than I. I can build them, and do most any work on them, but I wouldn't be able to take one apart and tell you if it's "shitty quality" unless it were really obvious. I will say that I wouldn't purposefully take a $400 AR into a gunfight. But they'll do okay for a trunk gun or a range toy for the kiddos. I'm like you..........I ain't to that level of expertise by a long shot. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:50:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He just verified? He doesn't have to provide documentation. They've already provided a copy of the initial email from radical. The last contact was in person with his boss at work so how would that be documented? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Firearms Blog is getting more in depth with this than I am. At this point I am just presenting the facts as presented to me. I am not the reviewer, I run P&S. I assigned the review to the reviewer. We had our members wondering about our review and out of the blue the designated reviewer announced he won't be conducting the review nor will he do any further business with that company. What I posted today was clarification for those who didn't know what had occurred. The beginnings of a review is on our FB group. The gun just plain being out of spec halted the process from being done as we wanted. Radical was going to fix the issues so we could continue the review, but we would still address the initial issues. I am happy to continue to help shed light on this whole debacle. Can you confirm radical arocked the reviewer? I have absolute trust in the reviewer. What happened to "trust but verify"? Can you provide screenshots of the reviewers contact with RF regarding the draft review and informing them the rifle failed? He just verified? He doesn't have to provide documentation. They've already provided a copy of the initial email from radical. The last contact was in person with his boss at work so how would that be documented? He has 8 posts and joined in Aug 2016. Why even ask? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:52:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arocking a guy at his day job is a legitimate thing to do? If as reported, this lies solely on RF! I think they must have graduated from the FireClean school of business. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Reviewers and their drama. Arocking a guy at his day job is a legitimate thing to do? If as reported, this lies solely on RF! I think they must have graduated from the FireClean school of business. How was he AROCKed? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:58:11 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How was he AROCKed? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Reviewers and their drama. Arocking a guy at his day job is a legitimate thing to do? If as reported, this lies solely on RF! I think they must have graduated from the FireClean school of business. How was he AROCKed? Showing up at a guy's work in an attempt to make him look bad to his boss, for something he was working on on his own time? Isn't that the very definition of arocking? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:02:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. Lots of dudes more knowledgeable than I. I can build them, and do most any work on them, but I wouldn't be able to take one apart and tell you if it's "shitty quality" unless it were really obvious. I will say that I wouldn't purposefully take a $400 AR into a gunfight. But they'll do okay for a trunk gun or a range toy for the kiddos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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............ Copy that, I should have directed my question to p226guy. I've gotten fairly proficient at assembling AR's from parts over the years and just do that for the most part nowadays. I do ask for advice and recommendations on where to buy parts though. A lot of good advice on suppliers, etc., is given here IMHO. Agreed. Lots of dudes more knowledgeable than I. I can build them, and do most any work on them, but I wouldn't be able to take one apart and tell you if it's "shitty quality" unless it were really obvious. I will say that I wouldn't purposefully take a $400 AR into a gunfight. But they'll do okay for a trunk gun or a range toy for the kiddos. the only change i did to mine was replace the bolt to a known quality part. pretty much anything else works or it doesn't. for the price i am happy and for the training i have done with it i trust it as much as any other ar i have. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:03:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's me guess........ Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In the tech forums, there have been numerous instances of barrels unscrewing under fire, or untorquing easily from the extensions with muzzle device removal. I have just stood by watching to see how they handle it all. Sounds like a company going through some serious growing pains, without the proper technical expertise to address component selection, materials science, and total quality management. Customer service seems to be hit and miss, with forum members who have visited the location for service saying they wouldn't buy anymore after seeing the condition of their business. A lot of companies that have started up in the past 10 - 15 years refuse to higher a school trained gunsmith because they don't feel it is worth the cost. A lot of companies hire school-trained gunsmiths and no engineers who know ME and firearms, thinking they can just ride the AR15 parts bandwagon. A gunsmith will not be able to run a materials science or TQM program, unless he has training in metallurgy, parts specification to vendors, test equipment, and a bunch of other disciplines they might talk about in gunsmith school, but are outside of the scope of the courses out there. There are MEs who still don't have the appropriate training for this, and yet still basically do OJT, re-learn a lot of lessons that were already known by 1964, or don't learn those lessons. Hiring quality people takes money. Some hick owner isn't going to want to pay that kind of money to make his business successful in the long run, so he's going to cut corners at every opportunity, thinking he's got this. People don't know what they don't know, and drive on with what they think is enough. Good luck to you if that's your approach. I spent several days this summer talking with John Paul from JP Enterprises. One of the first things he did when he got into AR15 parts was hire an engineer to help him design and mature a muzzle break for the AR15. He has always had competent engineering staff, and as a result, his products are some of the most successful in the market. That's the whole other side of it...you need a "team" As a gunsmith I have classes on metallurgy, materials, and believe it or not part sourcing and working with vendors. In the industry I have met a lot of engineers, tqm/QC managers, machinist, tool and die makers etc that could not make a gun run for the life of them... Hence a team is needed. Let's me guess........  Believe it or not "They" are not the only ones and are actually better than most in this regard. but yeah...
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:03:29 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the only change i did to mine was replace the bolt to a known quality part. pretty much anything else works or it doesn't. for the price i am happy and for the training i have done with it i trust it as much as any other ar i have. Good to know. I've got a few good bolts, I might swap mine out too. |
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