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Link Posted: 8/22/2016 9:27:22 PM EDT
[#1]
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I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  

Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.
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Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.

Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.

WTF


highly doubt that an evolutionary event like that would take place in a short time span.

J-



I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  

Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.


PLEASE tell me that's a typo..........
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 9:38:20 PM EDT
[#2]
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PLEASE tell me that's a typo..........
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Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.

Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.

WTF


highly doubt that an evolutionary event like that would take place in a short time span.

J-



I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  

Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.


PLEASE tell me that's a typo..........


not a typo
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 9:45:38 PM EDT
[#3]
all true.

if a rattler rattles, hogs are right on it.
they are teach that in field safety classes now for oil and gas employees.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 9:54:37 PM EDT
[#4]
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not a typo
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Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.

Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.

WTF


highly doubt that an evolutionary event like that would take place in a short time span.

J-



I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  

Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.


PLEASE tell me that's a typo..........


not a typo


"But it's likely that Florida's exotic pet trade has introduced these creatures into the wild, according to researchers."

Another win for Florida and another blow to our ecosystem
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 9:58:54 PM EDT
[#5]
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The theory is possible, in that individuals prone to rattle when approached make their whereabouts known, whereas those that don't remain undiscovered, and if being discovered results in a high rate of lethality.  I could see this being a rational conclusion if we are talking about snakes being found and killed by humans, however pigs have a great sense of smell and will be tipped off to the presence of a snake from the unique odor the snake emits rather than discovering the potential meal from the snakes' auditory warning. I've been studying venomous snakes for nearly 20 years and have not seen a hereditary change in behavior that would validate the claim.  The majority of rattlesnakes I handle do not rattle unless I pick them up and secure their head by hand.  They have individual temperments; some rattle fiercely before I've spotted them and others remain calm even when being picked up, and that's across the board among all rattlesnake species I've encountered.  I wouldn't say that one species is meaner than the next.

I've also been studying feral pigs for about 12 years and when I began to hear this theory being passed around I tried to find evidence supporting it by searching out rattlesnakes within areas I knew were highly populated by feral hogs. I did not find a correlation between areas with an abundance of feral hogs and rattlesnakes that were less liberal with their warnings, however it was true that the number of rattlesnakes within those areas was much smaller than what I would expect to find in similar habit elsewhere around the region with little to no feral hogs.  I don't rely on hearing a rattle to locate snakes and my methods of finding them are the same no matter where I'm searching, so I would not extend the theory to my ability to locate rattlesnakes either.

Feral hogs do prey on snakes, but one of the rattlesnakes' most prolific enemies is the roadrunner. Roadrunners are remarkable at subduing young rattlesnakes, and they don't use their ears to locate them.
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Ive seen this once when I was a land surveyor in S NM.  It was glorious!   Was out with another party chief who told me to watch this, "that road runner is gunna fuck that rattlesnake up".  Didn't believe him.  Was a really cool sight.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 10:16:49 PM EDT
[#6]
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The theory is possible, in that individuals prone to rattle when approached make their whereabouts known, whereas those that don't remain undiscovered, and if being discovered results in a high rate of lethality.  I could see this being a rational conclusion if we are talking about snakes being found and killed by humans, however pigs have a great sense of smell and will be tipped off to the presence of a snake from the unique odor the snake emits rather than discovering the potential meal from the snakes' auditory warning. I've been studying venomous snakes for nearly 20 years and have not seen a hereditary change in behavior that would validate the claim.  The majority of rattlesnakes I handle do not rattle unless I pick them up and secure their head by hand.  They have individual temperments; some rattle fiercely before I've spotted them and others remain calm even when being picked up, and that's across the board among all rattlesnake species I've encountered.  I wouldn't say that one species is meaner than the next.

I've also been studying feral pigs for about 12 years and when I began to hear this theory being passed around I tried to find evidence supporting it by searching out rattlesnakes within areas I knew were highly populated by feral hogs. I did not find a correlation between areas with an abundance of feral hogs and rattlesnakes that were less liberal with their warnings, however it was true that the number of rattlesnakes within those areas was much smaller than what I would expect to find in similar habit elsewhere around the region with little to no feral hogs.  I don't rely on hearing a rattle to locate snakes and my methods of finding them are the same no matter where I'm searching, so I would not extend the theory to my ability to locate rattlesnakes either.

Feral hogs do prey on snakes, but one of the rattlesnakes' most prolific enemies is the roadrunner. Roadrunners are remarkable at subduing young rattlesnakes, and they don't use their ears to locate them.
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

This is the second thread today your expertise has come in handy.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 10:53:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Here in OR there are a metric fuckton of rattlesnakes on a stretch of river I normally fly fish. I have been fishing this stretch for over 20 years now and over the years the snakes have definitely rattled less and less. Surprised the hell out of me when I first moved here since I came from SoCal and you can usually hear those fuckers from a mile away. The Oregon snakes are to the point now where even if you're fucking with them they either won't rattle of if they do it is incredibly anemic and you probably wouldn't hear it if you didn't see them. This was not the case 20 years ago but there were definitely some that were less prone to rattling.  I've had a theory for a number of years that the ones that rattle generally get killed and the quieter ones live to see another day and I really do think there's something to it. There could definitely be another reason but that one seems fairly plausible.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 11:04:18 PM EDT
[#8]

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Here in OR there are a metric fuckton of rattlesnakes on a stretch of river I normally fly fish. I have been fishing this stretch for over 20 years now and over the years the snakes have definitely rattled less and less. Surprised the hell out of me when I first moved here since I came from SoCal and you can usually hear those fuckers from a mile away. The Oregon snakes are to the point now where even if you're fucking with them they either won't rattle of if they do it is incredibly anemic and you probably wouldn't hear it if you didn't see them. This was not the case 20 years ago but there were definitely some that were less prone to rattling.  I've had a theory for a number of years that the ones that rattle generally get killed and the quieter ones live to see another day and I really do think there's something to it. There could definitely be another reason but that one seems fairly plausible.
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I have caught in the neighborhood of 400 (low estimate) rattlesnakes all over the western US over the last 30 years, with the majority being in WA and OR.  This has not been my experience at all.  I do notice that with time, individual people get better at spotting them rather than relying on the buzzer, especially in places like the NW where there are really a lot of them.



 
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 11:15:18 PM EDT
[#9]
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The theory is possible, in that individuals prone to rattle when approached make their whereabouts known, whereas those that don't remain undiscovered, and if being discovered results in a high rate of lethality.  I could see this being a rational conclusion if we are talking about snakes being found and killed by humans, however pigs have a great sense of smell and will be tipped off to the presence of a snake from the unique odor the snake emits rather than discovering the potential meal from the snakes' auditory warning. I've been studying venomous snakes for nearly 20 years and have not seen a hereditary change in behavior that would validate the claim.  The majority of rattlesnakes I handle do not rattle unless I pick them up and secure their head by hand.  They have individual temperments; some rattle fiercely before I've spotted them and others remain calm even when being picked up, and that's across the board among all rattlesnake species I've encountered.  I wouldn't say that one species is meaner than the next.

I've also been studying feral pigs for about 12 years and when I began to hear this theory being passed around I tried to find evidence supporting it by searching out rattlesnakes within areas I knew were highly populated by feral hogs. I did not find a correlation between areas with an abundance of feral hogs and rattlesnakes that were less liberal with their warnings, however it was true that the number of rattlesnakes within those areas was much smaller than what I would expect to find in similar habit elsewhere around the region with little to no feral hogs.  I don't rely on hearing a rattle to locate snakes and my methods of finding them are the same no matter where I'm searching, so I would not extend the theory to my ability to locate rattlesnakes either.

Feral hogs do prey on snakes, but one of the rattlesnakes' most prolific enemies is the roadrunner. Roadrunners are remarkable at subduing young rattlesnakes, and they don't use their ears to locate them.
View Quote

Thank you for taking the time to answer this in a clear and non argumentative way.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 11:20:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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I have caught in the neighborhood of 400 (low estimate) rattlesnakes all over the western US over the last 30 years, with the majority being in WA and OR.  This has not been my experience at all.  I do notice that with time, individual people get better at spotting them rather than relying on the buzzer, especially in places like the NW where there are really a lot of them.
 
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Here in OR there are a metric fuckton of rattlesnakes on a stretch of river I normally fly fish. I have been fishing this stretch for over 20 years now and over the years the snakes have definitely rattled less and less. Surprised the hell out of me when I first moved here since I came from SoCal and you can usually hear those fuckers from a mile away. The Oregon snakes are to the point now where even if you're fucking with them they either won't rattle of if they do it is incredibly anemic and you probably wouldn't hear it if you didn't see them. This was not the case 20 years ago but there were definitely some that were less prone to rattling.  I've had a theory for a number of years that the ones that rattle generally get killed and the quieter ones live to see another day and I really do think there's something to it. There could definitely be another reason but that one seems fairly plausible.
I have caught in the neighborhood of 400 (low estimate) rattlesnakes all over the western US over the last 30 years, with the majority being in WA and OR.  This has not been my experience at all.  I do notice that with time, individual people get better at spotting them rather than relying on the buzzer, especially in places like the NW where there are really a lot of them.
 


Yeah I'm not saying this is true of the PNW in general at all. I've only ever really noticed it at a very popular spot I fish on the lower Deschutes. It's an extremely well-known area that gets tons of locals and tourists during the salmon fly hatch especially so it sees alot of foot traffic and snake killing.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 12:37:32 AM EDT
[#11]
I've heard similar comments about turkey hunting in the Spring, shooting the birds most prone to gobbling.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 3:24:02 AM EDT
[#12]
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I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  

Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.
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Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.

Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.

WTF


highly doubt that an evolutionary event like that would take place in a short time span.

J-



I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  

Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.


For our evoloutionary Cliff Clavins :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 3:57:29 AM EDT
[#13]

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For our evoloutionary Cliff Clavins :



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

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Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.



Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.



WTF




highly doubt that an evolutionary event like that would take place in a short time span.



J-






I sure can, if the input from the environment is something totally new and the population is large enough for the adaptation to occur.  Remember wild hogs are invasive species and have changed the environment a great deal in just a few hundred years.  



Wait until the nile crocs that have been found in FL take over from the docile alligators.




For our evoloutionary Cliff Clavins :



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

That's great, but there is a difference here.  There is evidence for the moth, there zero evidence for rattlesnakes evolving not to rattle due to hogs or humans.



 
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 4:05:43 AM EDT
[#14]
I've had them not rattle until my boot tickled their nose(I screamed like a girl when I realized my foot just tapped him on the nose) and I've had them rattle from a good distance. I've also had them not rattle at all even as I killed them.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 5:29:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes, it's well known recently that a lot of Rattlesnakes have stopped rattling and even striking without warning to avoid detection and being killed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 5:38:50 AM EDT
[#16]
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Visited NC over the summer and saw one in the road.  Pulled over to check it out because i have never seen one in the wild.  Poked with stick and couldnt get it to rattle.  Decided to stop messing with it because if i got bit and died, medicfrost would be posting the news story on here.  Yankee dies poking rattlesnake, darwin wins again.
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Link Posted: 8/25/2016 7:05:22 AM EDT
[#17]
This post reminds me of the time I nearly caught one in the ankle as a kid.  I stepped with my right foot near a rock that had a shelf that made a nice shady spot under the rock in preparation for swinging my left leg up on the rock to get on top.  I looked down and my right foot was 2 fucking inches from a rattler whose body was bigger around than my shoe who was hanging out under that rock.  I jumped up on the rock, swung back around and threw a rock at it and it rattled.  Then I gtfo.  2" from getting bit.  Fuck me.



Same place I hopped over some water (large tank) to a small island about 8 feet in diameter and a moccasin dropped into the water on the opposite side.



Same place a coral snake crossed my path, but they aren't scary unless they're in a spot where they can get fingers or toes.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 7:27:41 AM EDT
[#18]
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It's nonsense.
 
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Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.

Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.

WTF
It's nonsense.
 

It is fact.

I was hunting in south Texas last winter and saw Three rattle snakes and two of them would not rattle.  They coiled up and raised their heads up to strike but two of them did not rattle.  The other one just barely rattled.

Guy I was hunting with has hunted there and near Abilene for years and said it is because of the hogs.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 7:55:42 AM EDT
[#19]
I've relocated 4 or 5 timber rattlers from my house over the last few years. Only 1 rattled at all and that one was after I set it down.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 8:03:59 AM EDT
[#20]
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It is fact.

I was hunting in south Texas last winter and saw Three rattle snakes and two of them would not rattle.  They coiled up and raised their heads up to strike but two of them did not rattle.  The other one just barely rattled.

Guy I was hunting with has hunted there and near Abilene for years and said it is because of the hogs.
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Quoted:
Heard a story about how areas that are infested with hogs are producing rattlesnakes that don't rattle when threatened.

Because the hog kill and eat the ones that are more likely to rattle and the surviving snakes that don't rattle as much are the one breeding.

WTF
It's nonsense.
 

It is fact.

I was hunting in south Texas last winter and saw Three rattle snakes and two of them would not rattle.  They coiled up and raised their heads up to strike but two of them did not rattle.  The other one just barely rattled.

Guy I was hunting with has hunted there and near Abilene for years and said it is because of the hogs.


Winter?
What was the temperature? They may have been sluggish.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 12:50:16 PM EDT
[#21]
We have no hogs here and it seems most the rattlesnakes don't rattle until you're right on top of 'em. I think they rely on their  camo.
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