User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 10:56:49 AM EDT
Link
A Brooklyn judge has dismissed a lawsuit against the city and a cop who didn’t know how to perform CPR on a dying girl, because the Police Department does not require officers “to know and be willing and able” to perform the life-saving resuscitation.
The decision by Supreme Court Justice Dawn Jimenez-Salta came as a shock to the parents of Briana Ojeda, who suffered an asthma attack in a Carroll Gardens playground — and they said it should shock the public, too. “People don’t know that when you call 911, the police can do whatever they want and that’s unfair,” said mom Carmen Torres. “They should be made to help a person because they are the first ones on the scene.” Mendez, a five-year veteran at the time, testified in a deposition that he had only received CPR training out of a textbook and had never practiced on a dummy. “I didn’t feel safe putting my hands on someone without actually knowing what I’m doing,” Mendez testified, according to court papers. At the manslaughter trial earlier this year of Officer Peter Liang, who shot an unarmed Akai Gurley in the stairwell of a Brooklyn housing project, it was revealed that Liang and his partner failed to perform CPR on the dying man because they had received sketchy first aid training in the Police Academy.
Through July 8, the NYPD has retrained more than 5,000 cops in basic life support including CPR as a result of the Gurley shooting fiasco. In order to graduate from the Police Academy, probationary officers have to be qualified in basic first aid and CPR. The CPR training involves performing the life-saving technique on a dummy. According to a ruling by Brooklyn Supreme Court Justice Dawn Jimenez-Salta, police are under no obligation to use that knowledge. I was wrong, I expected the cop to get fired when I posted in the original thread back in 2010. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1084584_Cop_traffic_stops_blocks_parents_rushing_asthma_kid_to_hospital,_kid_dies 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:35:06 AM EDT
[#1]
The biggest misconception of the public is that LEOs exist to protect them. They don't; they exist to protect order. Their guns are not for your defense, they are to protect the officer and rule of law. The supreme court has ruled before that LE cannot be held accountable for failing to protect people, and this is an extension of that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:37:12 AM EDT
[#2]
They're not EMT's.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:39:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Wrong 911. CPR is allocated to EMTs.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:40:24 AM EDT
[#4]
This is a travesty.
Everything should be done to protect and keep safe our precious taxpayers...errr I mean citizens. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:41:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Maybe the parents should've learned CPR.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:44:32 AM EDT
[#6]
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics.
Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:46:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. This. CPR would do nothing for status asthmaticus. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:51:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:52:49 AM EDT
[#9]
It would be nice for officers to know cpr but it's not their area of expertise. Some depts. in my area don't even give officers a 'bag-valve-mask' for rescue breathing. They have a small device to place over the patients mouth, (as a stupid-wasted barrier), where they can do mouth to adjunct/barrier/mouth. There is a reason ems,hospitals,etc. wear gloves and have a BVM, as the risk of contamination is high. I always get a kick out of people who say your chances of getting something are small. I say to them if you work in the field, YOU try using none of your adjuncts/barriers yourself, if you think it is ok. Have someone vomit in your mouth (or worse) and then worry (and YOUR FAMILY) for the next 6 months to a year or more, to see if you contracted any disease. See if your employer will cover you for going against sog/sop.
I can also understand if they are the first and only one on scene, that they could be in danger for not being able to cover their backs. I have been a working ff/medic for over 23 years and have worked in some trash areas,where even I didn't feel safe with the cops on scene. A leo has a target on their backs 24-7 and I have seen issues where the cops on scene are trying to help and only get pushed around by family members they are their to help in the first place. Even now many f.d. are being issued vests due to issues of people thinking they are evil and not doing all they can to help family loved ones in need. The world is/has been a crazy place. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:52:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're not EMT's. Yup. I wouldn't have done CPR either if I were him. I especially wouldn't have done the rescue breaths since it is almost a guarantee that he didn't have a barrier device. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:53:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:55:35 AM EDT
[#12]
I'm not putting my lips on some herpes-encrusted ghetto goblin. Fuck that shit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:57:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Just cause someone is certified to give cpr doesn't mean they have to perform it. The cop probably would've got the crap sued out of him after he performed cpr because it breaks ribs. That's what happens anymore everyone is sue happy.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 11:59:02 AM EDT
[#14]
CPR would do shit for someone having an asthma attack... if anything it would make it worst!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:01:04 PM EDT
[#15]
1. It has been ruled that cops have no duty to protect or serve, several times over.
2. It has been ruled that you are not compelled to perform CPR, even if you have a reasonable belief of fatality Why would you think the guy would lose his job? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:04:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you think the guy would lose his job? The department was trying to identify the cop involved and the cop didn't come forward immediately plus at least one other policy violation. ETA: He also shaved his head right after the incident when he heard IA was trying to ID the cop involved. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:05:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not putting my lips on some herpes-encrusted ghetto goblin. Fuck that shit. I was laid out in a parking lot bleeding from my neck and back long time ago. The popos didn't come anywhere near me. I don't blame them. Mouth to mouth? Fuck all that shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:08:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The department was trying to identify the cop involved and the cop didn't come forward immediately plus at least one other policy violation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would you think the guy would lose his job? The department was trying to identify the cop involved and the cop didn't come forward immediately plus at least one other policy violation. Even after he shaved his head while they were trying to ID him? I am amazed he wasn't fired. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:09:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're not EMT's. True, they aren't, and the dismissing the suit against the officer was probably the right call. There are any number of circumstances where someone might use their judgement to not do it, even if this particular case was for a different reason. Honestly, if someone is a uniformed responder and they don't know CPR, they need to unfuck themselves. What are they going to do, sit there and watch their buddy die because they're "not paramedics"? If this officer actually deliberately attempted to hide his involvement in this, he should be fired just for that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:10:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even after he shaved his head while they were trying to ID him? I am amazed he wasn't fired. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why would you think the guy would lose his job? The department was trying to identify the cop involved and the cop didn't come forward immediately plus at least one other policy violation. Even after he shaved his head while they were trying to ID him? I am amazed he wasn't fired. Me too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:18:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Warren v. District of Columbia
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:26:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Intentionally blocking me in and not allowing me to get my child to the hospital would have gotten someone shot, badge or no badge.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:27:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Intentionally blocking me in and not allowing me to get my child to the hospital would have gotten someone shot, badge or no badge. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:28:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Interesting distinction.
Lawyers for the city moved to dismiss the wrongful death suit arguing that there is no constitutional or state right to the government providing emergency medical assistance. An exception would be if the person in need of aid is under arrest. The brief traffic stop “did not trigger a constitutional duty to provide medical assistance,” the judge wrote in her June 20 decision. ... The city successfully argued her parents’ wrongful death suit should be thrown out because the U.S. Supreme Court has held there is no federal or state right to government emergency medical assistance, unless the person is in custody. I can't remember the basis of the laws, but I can remember several discussions among EMTs and trainers that you really can't be sued successfully because the person in need of CPR is already dead. You can't make it worse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:29:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. CPR would do nothing for status asthmaticus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. This. CPR would do nothing for status asthmaticus. I'll trust the doc on this one. But, as a parent of a child with a known condition, how do you not have the common sense to go get some basic training and equipment yourself? Their Plan A was to call 911, and they were upset when it didn't work. I'm just saying, in general, if your Plan A is to call for help, you need a better Plan A. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:29:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. I wouldn't have done CPR either if I were him. I especially wouldn't have done the rescue breaths since it is almost a guarantee that he didn't have a barrier device. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They're not EMT's. Yup. I wouldn't have done CPR either if I were him. I especially wouldn't have done the rescue breaths since it is almost a guarantee that he didn't have a barrier device. The new method of CPR they teach now days in hands only (compressions only, no mouth to mouth). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:30:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey, Mom, you know who was first on the scene? It wasn't the cops - it was YOU. YOU had a child with a breathing problem and YOU didn't know CPR. You don't want justice, you want blame and a payout. Fuck off.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:37:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Cases like these are the reason why you should go through some type of motions even if you don't know it or know it will not help.
Feelz. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:39:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Intentionally blocking me in and not allowing me to get my child to the hospital would have gotten someone shot, badge or no badge. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Gifs/NDT.gif You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:42:52 PM EDT
[#30]
We're not medics. Our first aid training was done in a morning before lunch in the academy. 3-4 hours total.
I've tried though. I've held a guys brain into his head after he shot himself and was still breathing while waiting for medics. Used my personally bought tourniquet on a victim, he died. Tried to hold whatever I could over bullet holes while waiting for medics. Been thrown up on while doing CPR. I'll try to help people. Just don't expect very good results. We're not trained or equipped for it. Hell some lady the other day was livid at me when a guy died on the sidewalk because I wouldn't get my "heart machine" out of the back. We don't carry AEDs but she wouldn't believe me |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:43:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Intentionally blocking me in and not allowing me to get my child to the hospital would have gotten someone shot, badge or no badge. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Gifs/NDT.gif You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. link lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:47:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. CPR would do nothing for status asthmaticus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. This. CPR would do nothing for status asthmaticus. ayup. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 12:57:35 PM EDT
[#33]
So the parents knew their daughter was asthmatic, was out playing on the playground, but they didn't even have an inhaler?
I'm sorry she died, but they're looking for someone to blame. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're not medics. Our first aid training was done in a morning before lunch in the academy. 3-4 hours total. I've tried though. I've held a guys brain into his head after he shot himself and was still breathing while waiting for medics. Used my personally bought tourniquet on a victim, he died. Tried to hold whatever I could over bullet holes while waiting for medics. Been thrown up on while doing CPR. I'll try to help people. Just don't expect very good results. We're not trained or equipped for it. Hell some lady the other day was livid at me when a guy died on the sidewalk because I wouldn't get my "heart machine" out of the back. We don't carry AEDs but she wouldn't believe me I got bitched at because I didn't have a tank of oxygen in my car. By a nurse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 1:58:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:01:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Intentionally blocking me in and not allowing me to get my child to the hospital would have gotten someone shot, badge or no badge. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Gifs/NDT.gif You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. I figure a badass would be smart enough to learn how to handle their child's known medical condition instead of doing nothing but panicking and then shooting someone when they get stopped driving recklessly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:02:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Our cops here have AED's in their vehicles, one was used just recently. We started getting those when I left, the Sgt. would have to force cops to take it out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:08:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Looks like a good thing to me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:08:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We started getting those when I left, the Sgt. would have to force cops to take it out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Our cops here have AED's in their vehicles, one was used just recently. We started getting those when I left, the Sgt. would have to force cops to take it out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:10:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll stick with the cops in flyover country that actually help us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our cops here have AED's in their vehicles, one was used just recently. We started getting those when I left, the Sgt. would have to force cops to take it out. I heard the "training" on them wasn't much better than the CPR "training" there. I wouldn't want to take it out either. More responsibilities, more problems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:13:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard the "training" on them wasn't much better than the CPR "training" there. I wouldn't want to take it out either. It's actually part of the same class these days. And we teach the PD in our city. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:14:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Very recently went for my EMT cert to round myself out a bit - EMT's actually advise AGAINST giving aid even in dire circumstances after 911 is called.
Even with the proper certs, if it's proved that you did something incorrectly, you're getting sued... Begs the question: Wtf was the point of spending $1500 on a cert if I can't use it... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:14:40 PM EDT
[#43]
NYFD gonna eat well this Thanksgiving and Christmas
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:16:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's actually part of the same class these days. And we teach the PD in our city. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I heard the "training" on them wasn't much better than the CPR "training" there. I wouldn't want to take it out either. It's actually part of the same class these days. And we teach the PD in our city. "Teach" being the key word. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:35:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Teach" being the key word. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I heard the "training" on them wasn't much better than the CPR "training" there. I wouldn't want to take it out either. It's actually part of the same class these days. And we teach the PD in our city. "Teach" being the key word. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:41:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. The same reason they think cops are supposed to be taxi drivers, lost item finders, direction givers, argument referees, tire changers, child disciplinarians, etc. "CUZ I PAY UR SALARY DURRHURR" |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:45:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still don't get why people think cops are supposed to be medics. Also it's my understanding CPR would not have saved her. One of the worst feelings are going to squad calls where you can do nothing but wait for the ambulance show up or watch the victim keep over so you can start CPR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:47:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting distinction. I can't remember the basis of the laws, but I can remember several discussions among EMTs and trainers that you really can't be sued successfully because the person in need of CPR is already dead. You can't make it worse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting distinction. Lawyers for the city moved to dismiss the wrongful death suit arguing that there is no constitutional or state right to the government providing emergency medical assistance. An exception would be if the person in need of aid is under arrest. The brief traffic stop “did not trigger a constitutional duty to provide medical assistance,” the judge wrote in her June 20 decision. ... The city successfully argued her parents’ wrongful death suit should be thrown out because the U.S. Supreme Court has held there is no federal or state right to government emergency medical assistance, unless the person is in custody. I can't remember the basis of the laws, but I can remember several discussions among EMTs and trainers that you really can't be sued successfully because the person in need of CPR is already dead. You can't make it worse. That is what I was told as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:51:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Intentionally blocking me in and not allowing me to get my child to the hospital would have gotten someone shot, badge or no badge. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Gifs/NDT.gif You think it takes a bad ass to protect your child from dying? I think it takes a coward to do nothing while someone else allows your child to die. Don't feel bad though, I doubt you're alone. There are probably plenty of other cowards out there in this world too. "Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition..." copypasta goes here |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2016 2:52:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the parents knew their daughter was asthmatic, was out playing on the playground, but they didn't even have an inhaler? I'm sorry she died, but they're looking for someone to blame sue. FTFY |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
