User Panel
Posted: 7/28/2016 11:51:05 PM EDT
Where would you look???
I think about this mystery very often. Hope it's solved in my lifetime. |
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First I would get an ROV and go develop the debris fields from the sonar records already shot.
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Unlimited funds? Everywhere I knew it wasn't
It would be cool to find though. |
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I'd buy an island and retire. Plane crashed and is gone. Shit happens. I don't need closure.
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No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? |
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Unlimited funds?
Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. |
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lol So..how many of these things did we lose? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? The old saying was "One a day in Tampa Bay". Internet says 14,000 planes lost to training in continental US during WW2. |
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Interesting thing about that, The Mariner that exploded. My grandfather was one the the mechanics on them. He HATED that aircraft, always said it was deathtrap. He loved PBY's though.
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Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean.
The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. |
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Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. View Quote Their commander was a fucking idiot...or maybe it was UFOs. |
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lol So..how many of these things did we lose? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? The Avenger was a very popular aircraft during WWII; it's not surprising that a lot of them were lost in the ocean around Florida. |
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Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Dirk Pitt beat you to it. |
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Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. View Quote Quite literally, that was the case. The air over Florida, particularly the Everglades, was very hazy due to fires in the 'Glades. It wouldn't have been difficult at all to lose sight of land. |
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I'd probably just wind up with a bunch of NFA guns and ammo and no planes.
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lol So..how many of these things did we lose? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? Oddly enough a few. IIRC there was a NAS training station nearby and every so often a pilot would misjudge fuel and or navigate poorly. Then Oops would occur. |
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Didn't they find these planes already? View Quote Pieces have washed ashore. Circulation patterns hindcast from the recovery locations could reveal their origin. Not in an X marks the spot fashion, but identifying a new place to search. The search has already cost a couple priceless sonars which were lost after seabed contact. one was a synthetic aperture system developed here in Seattle by a small company based in Montana. |
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Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. View Quote The magnitude of such a broad search really would take unlimited funds. On the order of the entire world's offshore oil industry devoted to search. The ocean is a big place and finding something like an aircraft debris field is painstaking work. The original search specification called for a sonar able to detect 1 meter objects. Assuming the plane ditched at high speed it likely broke up and the largest remaining parts would be engines, landing gear, and seats. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. |
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I have been following this ever since I was a kid in grade school.
I did a book report on it back then , and it never forgot. |
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You'd have to expand that wall quite a bit. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. |
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Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search.
Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. So far as I'm aware, anyways, none of them have been reported found, unless one counts Hawes' discovery and he was unable to identify the ship. It could well have been any of the three, even if it is possibly more likely that it was the Cyclops. |
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Quoted: Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search. Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? View Quote They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. |
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They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search. Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. They've been down there a long time. Best case, they got silted in and were preserved to be washed out in a storm and discovered by some extremely lucky soul. Worst case they have been destroyed by corrosion and currents. The really deep ocean is a more benign place, if they are deep they may be sitting intact. If they ditched hard enough to break up, they are lost. But AFAIK there was no debris found so that suggests they ditched intact. |
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You'd have to expand that wall quite a bit. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. Couple thousand feet of water? Try 15,000+. It's freaking deep out there. |
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<a href="http://s158.photobucket.com/user/WitchDoctor02/media/screenshot-lrg-30.png.html" target="_blank">http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/WitchDoctor02/screenshot-lrg-30.png</a> View Quote |
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Quoted: They've been down there a long time. Best case, they got silted in and were preserved to be washed out in a storm and discovered by some extremely lucky soul. Worst case they have been destroyed by corrosion and currents. The really deep ocean is a more benign place, if they are deep they may be sitting intact. If they ditched hard enough to break up, they are lost. But AFAIK there was no debris found so that suggests they ditched intact. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search. Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. They've been down there a long time. Best case, they got silted in and were preserved to be washed out in a storm and discovered by some extremely lucky soul. Worst case they have been destroyed by corrosion and currents. The really deep ocean is a more benign place, if they are deep they may be sitting intact. If they ditched hard enough to break up, they are lost. But AFAIK there was no debris found so that suggests they ditched intact. Agreed. Probably intact. Nothing from the planes were found, during the search. The Avenger was a pretty stout plane. |
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Quoted: Couple thousand feet of water? Try 15,000+. It's freaking deep out there. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. Couple thousand feet of water? Try 15,000+. It's freaking deep out there. Even more daunting. You're hoping for a lucky sonar hit. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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<a href="http://s158.photobucket.com/user/WitchDoctor02/media/screenshot-lrg-30.png.html" target="_blank">http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/WitchDoctor02/screenshot-lrg-30.png</a> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/MashedPotatoes.jpg "This is important. This means something." |
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This relates to the ONE super power I wish I had: I wish I could move about as though I could turn the existence of water off.
Imagine walking up to a lake and turning your power on and now all you see is a big depression where the lake WAS and you can just wander around it freely. The shit you'd find would be AMAZING! |
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This relates to the ONE super power I wish I had: I wish I could move about as though I could turn the existence of water off. Imagine walking up to a lake and turning your power on and now all you see is a big depression where the lake WAS and you can just wander around it freely. The shit you'd find would be AMAZING! View Quote That's actually a pretty cool fantasy. |
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The magnitude of such a broad search really would take unlimited funds. On the order of the entire world's offshore oil industry devoted to search. The ocean is a big place and finding something like an aircraft debris field is painstaking work. The original search specification called for a sonar able to detect 1 meter objects. Assuming the plane ditched at high speed it likely broke up and the largest remaining parts would be engines, landing gear, and seats. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. The magnitude of such a broad search really would take unlimited funds. On the order of the entire world's offshore oil industry devoted to search. The ocean is a big place and finding something like an aircraft debris field is painstaking work. The original search specification called for a sonar able to detect 1 meter objects. Assuming the plane ditched at high speed it likely broke up and the largest remaining parts would be engines, landing gear, and seats. A "High speed" ditching is unlikely. SOP at that time was to wait till everyone's gas was low, then ditch together. George Gay, the sole survivor of the Torpedo 8 attack at Midway, was familiar with the aircraft; he said in his book that it's entirely believable that it would survive such a ditching completely intact. |
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I'd guess you'd need a fleet of ships with towed sonar arrays, combined with a second fleet of ships with ROV's to check out possible hits. And, along with unlimited funds, unlimited patience.
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