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Posted: 6/27/2016 6:52:08 PM EDT
[#1]
For the same reason bacteria still exist.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 6:53:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Dear Science: Why aren’t apes evolving into humans?
The man be keeping dem down. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 6:56:27 PM EDT
[#3]
This posts allele frequencies are changing over time into a tag to watch da jaysus posts.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 6:56:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evolution take a long time.  Yep. A LOOOOOONNNNNGGGG time, unless you are selective breeding as we do with dogs and other domesticated animals. When humans force the issue we can speed some things up. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 6:58:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Page 3 and nobody had thrown Bigfoot into the discussions? Son I am disappoint!
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Posted: 6/27/2016 6:59:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Have we ever tried to impregnate any ape/monkey species? Is the DNA too different? I don't think it works with goats.
I bet GD guys would line up for some animal puss. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:11:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interestingly enough... given the right (or wrong) circumstances, environment, and conditions, Humans could evolve back into something resembling an forest dwelling ape again. Given enough time and food-stamps, it is almost sure to happen. Thread winner. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:12:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once humans started building houses and making medicine, our evolution has been changed forever. We are no longer a product of nature. At least it will be really hard for nature to change us. Since we are the dominate species and we have nukes, it is unlikely we will be toppled by any other species, unless it is a virus or bacteria. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm certainly not "god squad" by any means, but that answer was pretty weak. It really doesn't address evolution, and he could have given very simple answers for it such as TIME (how long evolution takes) or that is how they did in fact evolve. He really doesn't answer the actual evolution part of the question at all. He basically went back to his primal instincts and tossed poop all over, hoping some of it would stick. Once humans started building houses and making medicine, our evolution has been changed forever. We are no longer a product of nature. At least it will be really hard for nature to change us. Since we are the dominate species and we have nukes, it is unlikely we will be toppled by any other species, unless it is a virus or bacteria. It proves more useful and scientific to have a healthy skepticism about all unproven theories of evolution/non-evolution. Doesn't serve a purpose in the discovery of scientific knowledge to commit yourself to an unproven theory so.... zealously. "You" in the general sense, not you specifically. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:14:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thought has crossed my mind before that we may not be the first hyper-intelligent species to live on this planet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I always did think it was strange that of all the millions and millions of species that have lived on earth, only one evolved into building skyscrapers, mapping DNA, exploring space, etc. The other 99.9999999% are still the same dumbass animals they were hundreds/thousands/millions of years ago. I'm not coming from a religious point of view here, I've just never heard a solid explanation of why we have evolved so much further than every other species. The race isn't done yet. Maybe something rises and takes our place, maybe we start going backwards (been to a Walmart lately?), maybe there were intelligent species several times before but were taken out by whatever mechanism. Maybe we just got lucky with the domestication of the wolf/agriculture, it's hard to imagine we'd have made the gains we have without that pushing us along. The thought has crossed my mind before that we may not be the first hyper-intelligent species to live on this planet. We're not. There have been hominid skulls discovered with far larger cranial brain capacity than we have. Us homo Sapiens outbred, outmurdered, or just outlucked them. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:15:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryI can tell you have a super deep understanding of theology and human nature. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:15:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Dear Science,
Why are so many people so stupid? 
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:17:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because apes are apes and humans are humans. The end. Humans are a member of the great Ape/Hominid family. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:24:22 PM EDT
[#13]
would be cool to have a drone program fly over Sentinel Island to start getting better data of man with no outside influence vs man who has every resource at his finger tips.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:25:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always did think it was strange that of all the millions and millions of species that have lived on earth, only one evolved into building skyscrapers, mapping DNA, exploring space, etc. The other 99.9999999% are still the same dumbass animals they were hundreds/thousands/millions of years ago. I'm not coming from a religious point of view here, I've just never heard a solid explanation of why we have evolved so much further than every other species. 
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:26:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always did think it was strange that of all the millions and millions of species that have lived on earth, only one evolved into building skyscrapers, mapping DNA, exploring space, etc. The other 99.9999999% are still the same dumbass animals they were hundreds/thousands/millions of years ago. I'm not coming from a religious point of view here, I've just never heard a solid explanation of why we have evolved so much further than every other species. Watch "worldstar" and get back to us. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:30:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:37:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going with 1 million years Step 1: Lose the hair Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Evolution take a long time. Step 1: Lose the hair Why is that step one? Hair is an evolutionary step forward. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:38:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Got to love all the anti-evolution folks who come into science threads. If you don't believe in evolution, why are you always talking about it? To use theist's logic, if you claim not to believe something but jump at every chance to talk about it, clearly you must know for a fact that evolution is true and you are scared to admit it because it would mean you can't live life how you want, but rather, must conform with reality. It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? Whiff! Right over your head. 
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:39:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. No it isn't. And no it didn't. There is no such thing as "fully evolved." Quit making shit up, please. Or at least, make up interesting shit like demon-squatch stories. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:39:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why is that step one? Hair is an evolutionary step forward. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Evolution take a long time. Step 1: Lose the hair Why is that step one? Hair is an evolutionary step forward. Evolution has no inherent direction. A change can increase the chances of survival, or decrease it, or have no effect. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:43:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Got to love all the anti-evolution folks who come into science threads. If you don't believe in evolution, why are you always talking about it? To use theist's logic, if you claim not to believe something but jump at every chance to talk about it, clearly you must know for a fact that evolution is true and you are scared to admit it because it would mean you can't live life how you want, but rather, must conform with reality. It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? Like a moth to a flame...... |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:44:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Mikie, Michelle Sotorro is an prehistoric ape.....
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:46:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Got to love all the anti-evolution folks who come into science threads. If you don't believe in evolution, why are you always talking about it? To use theist's logic, if you claim not to believe something but jump at every chance to talk about it, clearly you must know for a fact that evolution is true and you are scared to admit it because it would mean you can't live life how you want, but rather, must conform with reality. It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? You almost got the point of my post, except you missed the fact that people have been telling me that for 10 years and I'm just now applying their own logic against them, hence, the point of my post. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:48:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup, so long that it hasn't even happened yet. It's a religion. Based completely off a belief for which there is no hard evidence. None. But go ahead and believe there is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Evolution take a long time. yup, so long that it hasn't even happened yet. It's a religion. Based completely off a belief for which there is no hard evidence. None. But go ahead and believe there is. I'll just bet your personal religion has nothing to do with that statement. Don't bother responding. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:48:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it isn't. And no it didn't. There is no such thing as "fully evolved." Quit making shit up, please. Or at least, make up interesting shit like demon-squatch stories. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. No it isn't. And no it didn't. There is no such thing as "fully evolved." Quit making shit up, please. Or at least, make up interesting shit like demon-squatch stories. Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:49:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:53:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evolution has no inherent direction. A change can increase the chances of survival, or decrease it, or have no effect. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Evolution take a long time. Step 1: Lose the hair Why is that step one? Hair is an evolutionary step forward. Evolution has no inherent direction. A change can increase the chances of survival, or decrease it, or have no effect. If that is true, then why hasn't anyone addressed the quote from the OP: "Those creatures have been on their own lineage for 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again." Why not? If evolutionary direction is freely moblie, then why can't it 'devolve' the way it came when facing the necessary environment? |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:55:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are still places on Earth where it makes sense to be a gorilla, chimpanzee, etc. Hmmm. Nah. The joke I wanted to make here is probably not CoC compliant.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:56:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like a moth to a flame...... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Got to love all the anti-evolution folks who come into science threads. If you don't believe in evolution, why are you always talking about it? To use theist's logic, if you claim not to believe something but jump at every chance to talk about it, clearly you must know for a fact that evolution is true and you are scared to admit it because it would mean you can't live life how you want, but rather, must conform with reality. It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? Like a moth to a flame...... I said "USING THEIST LOGIC....." This means, the logic is not mine (even though it is frequently applied to me by others), I'm just applying it to others for the sake of logical consistency. That's the point of my post. If you use their own logic on them: anyone who doesn't believe in evolution who posts in a thread about evolution clearly knows for a fact that evolution is true. I didn't create the "if you talk about something you claim not to believe in, then you believe in it" argument, I'm just using it to ensure it is applied fairly, and we don't cherry pick which situation we use it in and which situation we don't. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:58:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryMeme of the year right there. 
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:00:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. No it isn't. And no it didn't. There is no such thing as "fully evolved." Quit making shit up, please. Or at least, make up interesting shit like demon-squatch stories. Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Ah...the "evolution is a foundation for an immoral world view" bullshit? No...that fails. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:02:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that is true, then why hasn't anyone addressed the quote from the OP: "Those creatures have been on their own lineage for 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again." Why not? If evolutionary direction is freely moblie, then why can't it 'devolve' the way it came when facing the necessary environment? Evolution just means change over time (generations). But from our perspective, some things have "devolved." It's really just more change...more adaptations. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:03:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is true, then why hasn't anyone addressed the quote from the OP: "Those creatures have been on their own lineage for 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again." Why not? If evolutionary direction is freely moblie, then why can't it 'devolve' the way it came when facing the necessary environment? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is that step one? Hair is an evolutionary step forward. Evolution has no inherent direction. A change can increase the chances of survival, or decrease it, or have no effect. If that is true, then why hasn't anyone addressed the quote from the OP: "Those creatures have been on their own lineage for 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again." Why not? If evolutionary direction is freely moblie, then why can't it 'devolve' the way it came when facing the necessary environment? Infact, they'd be much, much farther away genetically to monkeys than we are. Convergent evolution can produce phenotypes which bear resemblances to ancestral phenotypes if conditions change sufficiently to favor that phenotype again. That doesn't mean, however, that the genotype of the "new" version won't be significantly different. In fact, its a near mathematical certainty that it will be extremely different. Also, even if the "new" version looks similar to a long gone ancestral version, I'd bet there would be anatomical differences which would distinguish them too even if you had no clue about their lineages. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:07:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arguing evolution with most people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good your opening move; the pigeon will strut around, shitting on the board and knocking over pieces, acting like it is winning.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:07:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah...the "evolution is a foundation for an immoral world view" bullshit? No...that fails. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. No it isn't. And no it didn't. There is no such thing as "fully evolved." Quit making shit up, please. Or at least, make up interesting shit like demon-squatch stories. Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Ah...the "evolution is a foundation for an immoral world view" bullshit? No...that fails. Something that changes and gets rewritten as often as evolution can't be a foundation for much anything good. Matthew 7:24-27 tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer? |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:07:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s42.photobucket.com/user/dbrad197/media/Mobile%20Uploads/10730221_563721360331004_2331799269754854247_n_zps84smxetn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/dbrad197/Mobile%20Uploads/10730221_563721360331004_2331799269754854247_n_zps84smxetn.jpg</a>  image by FredMan, on Flickr
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:08:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ain't no dumbass animal. Do you see me howling at the moon, eating my own poop, whacking off, or playing soccer? So you have a high fence around your yard and you think that makes you special. OK. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:09:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who is to say that every human is fully evolved!? The end result of the evolutionary view of human genetics is precisely that some people are not "fully evolved". This contributed to if not directly caused many of the atrocities of the 20th century. No it isn't. And no it didn't. There is no such thing as "fully evolved." Quit making shit up, please. Or at least, make up interesting shit like demon-squatch stories. Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Clearly christianity is bad, Protestantism is bad, and leads to an immoral world view. If someone doesn't value this life at all, and only values the afterlife, and they think god wants them to kill people, clearly it shows that such a person has no moral foundation not to kill people. Rather, people who think this life is the only one we have and are afraid to die are much more moral and trustworthy than people who think this life is shit and that they should do whatever god wants, even if that is to kill "the bad people". North Korea is an "evolution believing society"? Are they even educated over there? Sounds like too much chance of having peasants get out of hand if you start teaching them about science and math and shit. The bottom line is:Your worldview says that people must believe in a magical god or they are bad and evil and will kill people. That's fine, that's your opinion. But its completely and utterly wrong to think that it is anything more than that, an opinion. It is also completely wrong to think that your opinion about history is any more valid than my opinion about history. What is apparent, though, is that you do not have an understanding of what the theory of evolution is, what it says, or what evidence we have for it. Listening to people "attack" evolution using questionable views of history is always as bad as listening to people "attack" guns using questionable statistics and tear jerker stories. You can always tell when someone doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground when they start bringing up Hitler or the KKK to "win" their argument. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:18:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Convergent evolution can produce phenotypes which bear resemblances to ancestral phenotypes if conditions change sufficiently to favor that phenotype again. That doesn't mean, however, that the genotype of the "new" version won't be significantly different. In fact, its a near mathematical certainty that it will be extremely different. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is that step one? Hair is an evolutionary step forward. Evolution has no inherent direction. A change can increase the chances of survival, or decrease it, or have no effect. If that is true, then why hasn't anyone addressed the quote from the OP: "Those creatures have been on their own lineage for 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again." Why not? If evolutionary direction is freely moblie, then why can't it 'devolve' the way it came when facing the necessary environment? Convergent evolution can produce phenotypes which bear resemblances to ancestral phenotypes if conditions change sufficiently to favor that phenotype again. That doesn't mean, however, that the genotype of the "new" version won't be significantly different. In fact, its a near mathematical certainty that it will be extremely different. Does that mean the genotypic variance leading to evolutionarily advantageous phenotypes only varies unidirectionally? If the genotypic changes that lead to phenotypic changes are NOT limited, then what is to stop retrograde genetic changes (aside from the obviously stated environmental suitability)? ETA spelling |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:25:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does that mean the genotypic variance leading to evolutionarily advantageous phenotypes only varies unidirectionally? If the genotypic changes the lead to phenotypic changes are NOT limited, then what is to stop retrograde genetic changes (aside from the obviously stated environmental suitability)? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If that is true, then why hasn't anyone addressed the quote from the OP: "Those creatures have been on their own lineage for 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again." Why not? If evolutionary direction is freely moblie, then why can't it 'devolve' the way it came when facing the necessary environment? Convergent evolution can produce phenotypes which bear resemblances to ancestral phenotypes if conditions change sufficiently to favor that phenotype again. That doesn't mean, however, that the genotype of the "new" version won't be significantly different. In fact, its a near mathematical certainty that it will be extremely different. Does that mean the genotypic variance leading to evolutionarily advantageous phenotypes only varies unidirectionally? If the genotypic changes the lead to phenotypic changes are NOT limited, then what is to stop retrograde genetic changes (aside from the obviously stated environmental suitability)? It just means that genetic changes themselves tend to accumulate randomly. So while you might end up with something that looks like a monkey given enough time and pressure on something like a modern human, that animal would be very, very different genetically than a modern day monkey. Why? Because at the actual genetic level the shift in genes will have occurred by selection working on more or less random changes. These random changes won't produce the same genome as a modern monkey (one simple example is because we have had a chromosomal fusion, even if we produce descendants who look like monkeys in a few dozen million years, they'll probably have a different number of chromosomes than modern monkeys). Its not a case of old genes re-emerging (or at least, not more than a few of them), but rather new genetic material changing to give a similar appearance to the old genes. I do not think it works such that an entire organism becomes a "genetic throwback". Assuming this is what you mean by "retrograde changes". If by "retrograde changes", you mean an animal that is less intelligent and more zoo animal like than human? Sure, that's entirely possible. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:35:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something that changes and gets rewritten as often as evolution can't be a foundation for much anything good. Matthew 7:24-27 tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer? Biology isn't good? I disagree. Besides, what do you think gets changed or rewritten that often with evolution? Sure, discoveries are made sometimes that affect the details, but the overall premise isn't in question. Who the hell is "building their house" on evolution? 
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:38:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Holy shit If I believed in a creator, I would thank him daily for not giving me your reasoning skills. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:38:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something that changes and gets rewritten as often as evolution can't be a foundation for much anything good. Matthew 7:24-27 tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Something that changes and gets rewritten as often as evolution can't be a foundation for much anything good. Matthew 7:24-27 tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer? The reason evolution got written and re-written is because the founders didn't want to get killed/ beat/ or ostracized by the oppression of religion.  The modern definition is pretty stable and backed by modern scientific theory, a thing which did not exist at the dawn of evolutionary study. Same way we finally got over the whole geocentric thing, where scientists were killed as heretics by the church for not believing the universe revolved the earth. Religious norms fell to a preponderance of evidence. "tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer?" Using a quotation to create a false dichotomy is pointless. Which is probably why the church killed philosophers as well.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:39:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit If I believed in a creator, I would thank him daily for not giving me your reasoning skills. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ever heard of the term Untermensch? Germans believed certain classes of people were not fully human, e.g. not fully evolved, and consequently look what they did. If you reach the end of an algebra equation and realize you are left with 1=2, it becomes obvious to any thinking person that there was a mistake somewhere in their work, because the end result simply cannot be true. Likewise, if at the conclusion of your world view, you would agree with the assertion of characters such as Adam Lanza who believed they could commit acts of unimaginable evil, and avoid accountability forever by taking the easy way out via suicide.. If you believe there is no judgment or accountability after death, then by definition it cannot be a good worldview, if the end result has evil triumphing and never held accountable. Evolution says that instead of divine beings created in the image of God for His fellowship, that we are animals who evolved on our own, by chance. But interestingly enough, even in evolution believing societies such as North Korea, a replacement for God has to be found, and usually it is the state. As beings created to worship God, in His absence a replacement will always be found. And this is why in the years following the removal of God from public schools, Liberals have been following a more and more bizarre religion, made up year by year as they go, until today they deny even that we were created male and female. And with that last line, you lost me. Holy shit If I believed in a creator, I would thank him daily for not giving me your reasoning skills. All he said that Religion is a tool of controlling a populace, and in the absence on those control measures, new ones will be found. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:40:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussions like this are why I support federal standards for education.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:42:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Why if I cut off a finger it don't grow back.
Why a dick get hard ain't got no bone. Why a butt hole bite off a turd ain't got no teeth. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:43:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Discussions like this are why I support federal standards for education. No kidding. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:44:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something that changes and gets rewritten as often as evolution can't be a foundation for much anything good. Matthew 7:24-27 tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ah...the "evolution is a foundation for an immoral world view" bullshit? No...that fails. Something that changes and gets rewritten as often as evolution can't be a foundation for much anything good. Matthew 7:24-27 tells the story of someone who built his house using the constantly shifting beach sand as a foundation, and another who built his house on the solid rock. Guess which house stood longer? The entire modern world depends on science. Science is based on the idea that our understanding of the universe must be updated to be more accurate when new facts show us our previous notions are wrong. Science brought us modern medicine, and electricity, and the internet, and any number of things that you take advantage of on a daily basis. Speaking of shifting sands: Christianity itself is a shifting sand, what with 10,000 different sects and billions of different personal interpretations of it. You can't base your life on a worldview that is as subjective as an ink blot test. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:45:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, amazing. You almost got the point of my post, except you missed the fact that people have been telling me that for 10 years and I'm just now applying their own logic against them, hence, the point of my post. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got to love all the anti-evolution folks who come into science threads. If you don't believe in evolution, why are you always talking about it? To use theist's logic, if you claim not to believe something but jump at every chance to talk about it, clearly you must know for a fact that evolution is true and you are scared to admit it because it would mean you can't live life how you want, but rather, must conform with reality. It must be the reason you always pop up in the Religious threads? You almost got the point of my post, except you missed the fact that people have been telling me that for 10 years and I'm just now applying their own logic against them, hence, the point of my post. The "Reality" you speak about is something I'm not aware of because I haven't followed you or this site for 10 years. So it wasn't meant in negative way just something I've noticed. One reality is; is that most atheist believe all religious people believe the same thing. Christians as an example. But, it is the same way religious people feel about there being only one type of atheist. We are both wrong. We are all individuals and it's why we care and explore what the truth is. Then debate it on sites like this. One day we'll have the correct answer, if allowed. I for one don't believe I evolved from a monkey/ape. Although scientist continue to examine and look at the evolution of mankind I don't believe there would be one scientist that truly said we have ALL the answers. It's why they are scientist. It's also why we must have an open mind about the future of what they discover. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:45:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Evolution take a long time. C'mon.... |
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