Whoda thought? Tell me there's no overarching plan to get us hooked on sugar...


TC

Sugar is cheap, and people instinctively like eating it.   Once it was tough to get, and now it's not.  It's quick and easy energy, and it's everywhere and in everything now.

Maybe one day, we'll have genetically modified chickens with sugar in the eggs they lay.

Its a gimmick.

Yes, it will make ketones show up in your urine.

That just means that you are passing them, not that you are creating them or using them.

Wow!!!
Great job!  Keep it up!

No idea, was just given it to try. Doesn't taste that good.

Attached File


Plus coconut creamed coffee

hahahaha

I snack on similar odd variety of various small quantity foods as well all day long

Verry common for me to have a small dish next to me at my desk that has: small fistfull of shredded parm cheese and a dozen or so unsalted almonds and a fistfull of raw baby spinach leaves and a clove or 2 of broccoli

satisfies my hunger and I am quite sure is a mega healthy snack.

1/2 the days of the week I make a cheese omellete after I have been up 3-4 hours and the coffee burns off. If I do that I completely skip lunch and next meal is dinner around 5-7pm

Many days I eat no actual meal at all and snack eat small things continuously all day

220-221 ... whatever it takes

DM ...

Hang in there man ! Your results are rock solid over just a few short months ... I know the stalls get frustrating, but you gotta see the long term big picture of where you will be 6-12-18 months from now

that visual change is remarkable and I know has to get you pumped. As that spare tire melts and the 'easy' fat burns away things are gonna slow down for you, so keep positive thoughts and just stay the course man

Congrats again

I think I'm gonna go for it.  Ive been off for awhile,  but the diving season is here,  so it's time to be back in ketosis.
I've had cow at every meal this week, but with salads, mushrooms, etc.   I'm going to try to have a lipid panel and a body scan done,  then do beef only for a month.
Eta, and fat coffee.

Grab a video camera and document!

Thanks man! I know it's a long process, and I'm in for the long haul for sure.

I had a little bit of freak out this weekend and just had to eat "normal" but in the end, I kept it mostly keto. (A beer or two slipped in there somehow!)

I feel like it got it out of my system though. It just made the last couple of days pretty miserable.

I'm on track with the 270s in sight. (287 this morning) hopping to be out of the 280s for good here in a couple of weeks.

That would put me 10 lbs under my high school sr year playing weight. And only 5 -10 off of my all time low since. 267 is the lowest I've been since I was a jr in high school in 1999.

I do t plan to stop in the 260s, but it's pretty cool to be within 20 lbs of the lowest weight I've been in the last (almost) 20 years.

I wish I liked macadamia nuts.   

Avocados and fresh raspberries, on the other hand.......

Good to see you doing this too.

Wow
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/

I was never fat.   However, I realized that I had just accepted the fact that a 50 year old man in good shape HAD to have a 36" waist.

I dropped 20-25 lbs in August.  Waist is 33" (which it was when I was a young Lt, 25 years ago).

I then put on 5-10 lbs from "5-3-1 lifting" -in addition to my usual sports and calisthenics regimen.

6 ft.  Went from 208 down to 183, and then built up to 190.

I don't think I have any more weight that I can lose.

Now I really scare the younger players.  

Mark Sisson (marks daily apple) is releasing a keto book soon. If you don't know who he is,  you should.  Look him up.

Shooting for the DEXA scan and blood draw on the 3rd.  Have to schedule a few other things that day, have to make sure everyone can get me in.

I've been sort of ticked off the past week or two. I hit 183 over Memorial day weekend, and then between parties and vacation, haven't been able to get back down that low. Every time I get close-ish, like maybe 185, I eat something unexpected and wham. Water weight.

Like yesterday. 187 or something in the morning. 193 at night. No idea what did it. Lunch was chicken and spinach. Dinner was crab cakes and broccoli. Tartar sauce is relatively high carb, but there was only like two tbsp. Wouldn't expect the crab cakes to be that bad. Unless it was the water I was drinking all evening. I'm just puzzled.

Anyway. End rant. I wouldn't care so much except I had a goal I was trying to hit by my birthday, which
Is middle of next month, which really means hitting it before the wedding I'm going to in Chicago in two weeks, unless I manage to avoid pizza in the land of the deep dish.

180 by mid-July. 170-175 by September. Eyes on the prize.

To that end, I'm fasting today. I'll see where that gets me.

I've been kicking the idea around of doing this for a while. 150 plus pages is a lot to to read through, so sorry for asking questions that have more than likely been asked before. I do intend on reading through it. Slowly but surely.

I'm a little shy of 6'-3", a little over 275 lbs. I obviously need to lose weight. But some of my weight is muscle. I do a lot of heavy lifting at both jobs. Definitely not in shape, but I'm not all fat either. My end goal is to be in shape to be able to Elk hunt in Colorado or Wyoming the next couple years.

My big issue is this "Keto flu" I've read about. From my understanding it's basically just dehydration. Could this be combated by drinking let's say a gallon of water a day? What other liquids can I drink? I have to have milk and that's not something I'm willing to give up.

Another issue is veggies. I'm very picky about those. I was forced to eat them as a kid. So much so that I would throw them up. Are these something I can skip or add sparingly to meals?

I'm sure I'll have mire to ask. Thanks in advance!

Everyone thinks they're fitter than they are. At your height, I'd expect you to hit 200-210 pretty easily.

Keto flu is a combination of things: part of it is probably dehydration, but carb withdrawal and electrolytes play a big part as well. If you're used to sugars and carbs in your diet, withdrawal can manifest in weird ways. Lack of energy, cravings, feeling ill. You just need to power through it. As for electrolytes (mainly magnesium and sodium), you can supplement (pills/powders) or you could drink pickle juice or meat broth. the majority of people feel kind of iffy for a few days. Except for some weird outliers, it shouldn't be too bad. You're really overthinking it.

Water is fine. Unsweetened beverages are fine, including tea and coffee. Most drinks with artificial sweeteners can be fine for keto (depends how your body reacts to the specific sweeteners), even if they're not actually great for you. Heavy cream is fine. Any specific reason you need milk? I'd recommend heavy cream cut with water instead, since milk is pretty high in sugar.

You'll need veggies. I mean, you should be eating veggies now. But on keto, you're removing carbs, starches, grains, and fruits from your diet, and some of those things provide nutrients and vitamins you need. Veggies help pick up the slack. You should try to work as much of a variety in as you can, but your personal preferences will have to play into that. Broccoli? Spinach? Peppers? Onions? Asparagus? Avocado? Kale? Zucchini? Spaghetti Squash? There should be something you can find. I probably don't get as many as I should, but I try. You certainly don't need to eat heaping salads every day.

Milk is by far my favorite beverage. In high school I would drink at least a gallon a day. Part of my wages from my job would go to buy milk, because my parents couldn't afford all that milk. A few years ago I realised I was drinking too much and had to cut back. I still drink a couple glasses a day, 1 being with my protein shake in the morning for breakfast.

As for veggies, I can be honest in saying I don't remember the last time I had one. Corn and Okra are about the only veggies I like. Pickles as well, but I don't know if those are considered veggies or not. I've never had avocados, or raw spinach. Willing to try those, if raw spiniched cooked tastes anything like the can spinich i was forced to eat as a kid, knock that one off the list too

I'd expect more carbs from the crab cakes than tartar sauce.  The bread used to bind everything together can have varying amounts depending on the recipe.

I'm looking forward to your report!

Good Luck

I hate to sound like a parent.  But...you need to eat more vegetables

It's amazing how much you can change your dietary preferences.  Actually develop preferences for things you don't like, and lose preferences for things you think you can't live without now.  

Like everything else in life, it takes practice and time.  But it can be done.  I've done it.

Bread in crab cakes???  

NO.   That's heresy.

Oh.

Per the first info I found, whole milk has 13 grams of sugars per cup. Commonly used carb limits on keto range from 20-50g/day. You'd have to limit yourself to 1-3 cups a day, and that's if you had literally zero carbs from anywhere else. Thus the suggestion for diluted heavy cream instead. I sort of get it though, since I also love milk. If you can't do without it, keto may not be for you.

Corn is a no go; it's a grain with over 100 carbs per cup. Okra is about 4 net (total-fiber) carbs a cup, so not terrible. Just don't go overboard. Dill pickles are fine, just not sweet or bread and butter. I would really recommend broadening your horizons here. Steamed broccoli smothered in cheese? Asparagus wrapped in bacon? Mmmmm.

I find raw spinach to have a much more mellow flavor than cooked spinach.  Even fresh spinach that you cook yourself does not taste like canned spinach.

I like to get a bag of baby spinach and fill a bowl half way then add three scrambled eggs on top of that, plus some sausage or mushrooms sauteed in butter.

To cook spinach I put a pan on medium and add some avocado oil. Throw a big heaping of spinach leaves in the pan, sprinkle with salt, and constantly turn them over with tongs until they are wilted but not overcooked like most canned spinach.

One cup of whole milk (Costco organic anyway) has 12g carbs, 9g fat, and 8g protein.  Once you get keto adapted it is not the worst thing in the world you can eat, but to get into ketosis you need to restrict yourself to under 20g of carbs a day for a few days.  Due to your height and your physical activity at your job your calorie requirements are likely much more than mine and I would bet that once your body has adapted to keto a cup of milk a day won't throw you out of ketosis.

Other than as part of a dish, like in omelets.  I don't eat cooked spinach.  Most of the spinach I eat is part of a salad.  On occasion (If I'm low on greens) I use only spinach as the greens in a salad.  I enjoy raw spinach, and raw vegetables daily, they're a staple of my diet.  

In my opinion, vegetables need to be a big part of a long-term healthy diet.  

People need to be selective about their protein and fat sources.  They need high quality, fats and proteins.  Oxidized fat like what's in pork rinds, are horrible fats.  Your liver has to work very hard to get rid of that kind of crappy oxidized fat.   Oxidized fat is probably a big contributor to shitty labs.

Did my elk hunt on keto this past october. Went great. Muscle conservation os typically very good on keto but there are a lot of other factors there.

I've never had keto flu and i go in out of keto all the time. Water potassium magnesium and sodium are important there.

You don't need to eat many veggies. I usually just have some greens to break up the monotony of a big plate of protein and fat.

Do not give up on spinach until you try eating raw baby spinach leaves ( either in salads or just plain raw / uncooked spinach )

I absolutely hated spinach from the time I was 7-8-9yo and forced to eat cooked nasty smelling stringy mushy spinach as a kid. fast forward 40 yrs ... I NEVER tried it again ever - until I started dieting 4-5 months ago and discovered that iceberg and romaine lettuce had near zero nutritional value and eating them was pointless.

I 1st bought regular raw spinach leaves in the produce section local grocer. was OK tasting as I blended them into juices ( an entire different failed dieting technique )

Then I saw a big bag of raw baby spinach at my local Costco and bought it. That changed everything as the baby spinach leaves had a cleaner better taste to them and were crisp. I devour a bowl or more daily - raw no dressing as a side dish or make a nice spinach salad with over veggies added in.

Huge part of my low carb / Keto wanna be diet

Don't speak ill of the pork rinds I love muh chicharrones!

Seriously though, I started losing weight more consistently when I worked them into the meal plan; usually as a chip substitute for guac. Don't know much about oxidized fat. But I thought that was a process by which oils broke down from improper storage in sunlight, not from cooking.

Was at the LGS last weekend and an older, heavier guy was talking about how great his new diet was.   He kept going on how he could eat as much eggs and bacon as he wanted.

Anyone know when Costa is going to release Art of the Dynamic Ketone?  

TL; DR -  Overdosed on carbs. Felt the results.


I just returned from a family "destination" wedding. It was very nice, but in an out of the way location, with all meals paid for by my brother-in-law from Thursday night - Sunday morning. All buffet style. I knew it would be tough, but I wasn't going to argue with him ponying up for me to eat!


All meals had carb-heavy vegetarian options. There was plenty of protein, and a decent amount of fatty options. The toughest part for me was that all the best stuff was carb heavy. Wife and I decided to do our best Thursday and Friday. I'd say that I was <50g carbs all day Friday until DINNER! I was careful, but ended up with at least 100g of carbs.

Saturday was another story, but I figured that one day wouldn't kill me.

I was wrong.

Saturday breakfast was ok. I had an awesome breakfast burrito (I left about 1/2 of the awesome fresh tortilla on the plate) but what killed me was the fresh squeezed OJ. I hadn't had OJ since Christmas morning. I gotta say, in that case, the juice was worth the squeeze! I had at least 16 ounces of that sugary goodness, so probably almost 50 carbs. Add another 20+ for the 1/2 tortilla, let's call it 70 for breakfast.

Lunch came a few hours later. I won't go into detail to spare you fellow keto folks, but I'll say that it was phenomenal, and I estimate I had at least 200 grams of carbs, which is about a week worth @ my normal keto level over the past 6 months.

I spent the afternoon in the ocean with my family. It was warm and nice, and some kind soul decided to have all manner of proper summer beach snacks down there. ARRGH. I figured I'd already blown it, so went to town on various salty and sweet snacks. Let's go with at least another 200 g of carbs (think - sugary baked goods, but NOT stevia!)

I don't drink, but made an exception for champagne at the wedding. That probably was just a couple of carbs in one glass. Dinner was another story. I went nuts on very good bread and the starches on the line. I looked up items on the way home and estimate another 150 g of carbs for dinner. I am getting pretty good at portion size estimates after weighing all of my food for keto, so I am probably pretty close.

I skipped dessert. I have a weird thing about wedding cake.

So, in one day, I had over 600 grams of carbs. My WORST day when I've been on keto has been about 50 before I caught myself eating too many nuts.

My average day is around 30 grams, so I had nearly 3 weeks worth of carbs in one day!

Sunday came, and BIL covered brunch for the crew. It had great egg/meat options that I could eat, so I jumped back in. That was earlier this week. By Wednesday (maybe sooner) I could tell I was back in ketosis (smell) plus I stole a stick from my T1D son and it was awfully purple. I wish I would have though to test on Sunday.

Weight change from departure date to return date: +8 lbs
Weight change through this morning - still up 2 from departure date, but I suspect I'll be back to where I started this weekend.

Saturday tasted good. It was nice to just say "screw it", but DEFINITELY not worth it. I'd love to blame the booze for the stuff below, but it was about 4 ounces of dry champagne, so that won't fly:

1) My sleep suffered horribly. I was hot, tossed and turned. I've slept like a log for months
2) Gas - here we were @ a romantic location, with all kids in the other room... I've been almost fart-free for six months. Wife was NOT pleased with that result
3) Heartburn/GERD- I've been able to stop prilosec/tums for at least 5 months. I am sure part of it was the volume of food I consumed, but I felt like my throat was on fire all night.
4) Related to the above, nasty belching. I even grossed myself out.
5) GI Issues the following day. Body was surprised, to say the least.


Would I do it again? I don't know. Probably not to that level. There were really only 2 things that I really enjoyed - the OJ and the fresh baguette. The rest I could have lived without. I think I'll plan a Christmas brunch that is all keto, except for good bread and fresh OJ. That will get me through the next 6 months!


ETA: There were only 2 "fat" people at this wedding, both some kind of cousin. The families are fitness people, the wedding party itself was full of very fit/attractive folks.

Yeah, you really gotta cut the milk and eat veggies.

As for spinach, when cooked in bacon grease, it's one of the absolute best things on the planet. The trick is to not over cook it. Just wilt.

Good luck! We're all counting on you! And we're here for help. (Well, I've really just here for the commentary, but many here can really help!)

Fuck!!!

So now I can't have Pork Rinds?  

It's just personal preference.  I don't eat them.  But I think in moderation they're fine.  I certainly think you can lose weight on them, and at the end of the day, that's the first objective, lose body fat.  

Everything's a compromise.  Do what you have to do to obtain your goals.

I'm standing in my kitchen just now making sausage and eggs for my myself and my daughter, munching on a string cheese. Have you ever asked yourself how string cheese would taste if it were lightly fried in Kerrygold and sausage grease?

The answer is "fucking awesome".

I have found that shredded Parmesan cheese ( from Costco ) is the only cheese I can eat regular while dieting that does not affect my stomach and constipate me

One of my fav snacks with it is place a few small piles on some aluminum foil ( spray with anti stick PAM ) and place in a toaster oven for a couple mins and let it melt into these kinda flat potato chip style things that are alittle soft in the center - yet snap crunch at the edges

They are great

Yeah, fuck that. @Qweevox usually knows what he's talking about but he can go pound sand on this one!

I usually get Mac's pork rinds or the crunchier cracklins (mmmm...pig skin). But, if you really want an awesome chicharrones treat, spring for these suckers:

Pork Clouds

The habanero flavor is like crack. My wife, poor misguided soul that she is, shuns most chicharrones. But she loves these.

Wow, thanks for the replies y'all! Sounds like I may be putting a little too much emphasis on the veggies. I also found a protein shake that had veggies mixed in Link. I didn't think the carbs were too bad, and if I were to have 2 in a day that would basically be my carb intake for the day. I could substitute milk for coconut water to keep the carbs lower. Right now I don't have the energy to wake up and cook breakfast, so this would be my breakfast, then one after the gym. Hopefully I can get to the point where I can wake up early enough to cook a breakfast and eliminate one of the shakes.

ETA: Damn it, looks like Coconut water has carbs in it. Fuck.

I'll have to seek out the Pork Clouds...but my tastes have changed from the light, fluffy puffed skins to the more dense and crunchy/harder cracklins.

Mac's Spicy Cracklins is my backup when I can't find what I really want.

The absolute best fried pork skin product I've ever had is Southern Recipe Red Pepper Dipper style cracklins.  WalMart used to carry them, but stopped recently.  I've got to find an alternative retailer.  

This product below owns my soul

when i do protein shakes i use unsweetened vanilla almond milk and some heavy cream with whey protein isolate. I only ever do protein shakes when i am "bulking" though.

If it's too much of a pain in the ass to make breakfast don't eat breakfast. Easy.
Another option is bullet proof coffee or I make a keto mocha, espresso heavy cream and calorie free chocolate sauce. With nearly a cup of heavy cream I'll drink this from 9 till 1 or so and not eat till dinner. Been doing this with starting strength and not seeing any problems lifting while fat fasted. Of course I just started a new cycle. When i get towards the top of the progression i eat twice as much.

Do you have my fitness pal or something to track your macros?
Starting off you need to see what is in every morsel you but in your gullet. No one seems to know what carbs are in what food like coconut water.

Have we talked about this yet?

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/06/15/CIR.0000000000000510


AHA Presidential Advisory
Dietary Fats and Cardiovascular Disease: A Presidential Advisory From the American Heart Association
Frank M. Sacks, Alice H. Lichtenstein, Jason H.Y. Wu, Lawrence J. Appel, Mark A. Creager, Penny M. Kris-Etherton, Michael Miller, Eric B. Rimm, Lawrence L. Rudel, Jennifer G. Robinson, Neil J. Stone, Linda V. Van Horn, On behalf of the American Heart Association
Download PDF
https://doi.org/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000510
Circulation. 2017;CIR.0000000000000510
Originally published June 15, 2017

   Article
   Info & Metrics

Abstract

Cardiovascular disease (CVD) is the leading global cause of death, accounting for 17.3 million deaths per year. Preventive treatment that reduces CVD by even a small percentage can substantially reduce, nationally and globally, the number of people who develop CVD and the costs of caring for them. This American Heart Association presidential advisory on dietary fats and CVD reviews and discusses the scientific evidence, including the most recent studies, on the effects of dietary saturated fat intake and its replacement by other types of fats and carbohydrates on CVD. In summary, randomized controlled trials that lowered intake of dietary saturated fat and replaced it with polyunsaturated vegetable oil reduced CVD by ˜30%, similar to the reduction achieved by statin treatment. Prospective observational studies in many populations showed that lower intake of saturated fat coupled with higher intake of polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat is associated with lower rates of CVD and of other major causes of death and all-cause mortality. In contrast, replacement of saturated fat with mostly refined carbohydrates and sugars is not associated with lower rates of CVD and did not reduce CVD in clinical trials. Replacement of saturated with unsaturated fats lowers low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, a cause of atherosclerosis, linking biological evidence with incidence of CVD in populations and in clinical trials. Taking into consideration the totality of the scientific evidence, satisfying rigorous criteria for causality, we conclude strongly that lowering intake of saturated fat and replacing it with unsaturated fats, especially polyunsaturated fats, will lower the incidence of CVD. This recommended shift from saturated to unsaturated fats should occur simultaneously in an overall healthful dietary pattern such as DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) or the Mediterranean diet as emphasized by the 2013 American Heart Association/American College of Cardiology lifestyle guidelines and the 2015 to 2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans.

Trying hard to break a plateau. Breakfast was a 2 egg omelet with half an avocado, 1.5oz chopped ham, spinach and cream cheese with a small glass of unsweetened coconut/almond milk. Lunch was romaine and spinach salad, the other half avocado, a few pepperoni slices, 1.5oz chopped ham topped with a little vinaigrette. Going to try eating this two days in a row with skipping dinner and going for a walk instead.

I would have to dig in to it but i am assuming there are a few flaws there with things they accept as settled science. Like if they base their risk of cvd on cholesterol numbers.

There are a few studies out there that blow giant holes in the diet heart hypothesis. Saturated fats aren't bad for you. A good dose of polyunsaturated fats is good for you especially omega 3. Just the increased intake of omega 3 can make a big difference for heart health and may not be related to the reduction of saturated fat.

The heck? They take perfectly good, fatty pork skin, and then melt the fat off and cook in olive oil.

The macros are backwards from what I would expect due to that.

I noticed no fruits are mentioned. I'm guessing natural sugars are a no no as well?

ETA: Someone mentioned an app earlier. What apps do yall use to track this stuff?

most fruits are full of sugar. an apple for example has the equivalent of 4 teaspoons of sugar. If you want a sweet fruit go with strawberries or black berries. Not a ton of sugar and they have lots of fiber (which btw you subtract fiber from total carbs)

my fitness pal is the most popular. I don't even know of another off the top of my head.

Maybe a glass of this a day? Fairlife Milk. Not perfect but it's better.