I'm okay with them being allies and I have absolutely no problem giving billions to them.


We should cut off some other countries like Pock-istan and give the money to Israel too.

Depends on if Trump likes them or hates them during that week.

Subject to change.

Edit...

The Jewish people could have had their country in a multitude of different locations under the British empire. They could be chilling, sippin' Pina Coladas in New Israel/Madagascar. Instead we get WWIII in the making.

Why? Religion.

Agree or disagree, this is my reason to support Israel.

Num 24:9 Like a lion they crouch and lie down, like a lioness--who dares to rouse them? "May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!"

Isa 60:12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.

Pretty damn clear cut IF you choose to obey what is in the Bible.

Idgaf about Isreal.

I think they got off easy. I'm not saying we should have attacked them because odds are it was an accident but they got off easy. They are our friend and ally in a troubled region but it seems like it's more of an alliance of convenience for them more than an alliance of friends. I also dislike all of the military hardware we give them for free. They should be buying it themselves, with a discount, but buying it all the same.

I see the spittle is already flying with indignation to see who can have someone banned over some imagined "88" comment already.

So you believe the US should serve Israel? As in, be it's inferior/subordinate?

I'm sure a site with links to books about White independence is totally legit.



 

I'm a believer that Israel doesn't need us, but we need Israel. That is based upon my post above. I know many people could care less and flat out think that's rediculous, but that's what I believe and am sticking to it.

Fair enough, I was just clarifying.

To add to your question - i believe our current administration is doing a damn fine job of making this great nation as inferior as they can.

I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with that statement.

You guys are busting my balls but you can google "dual us citizenship Israel in government" or anything along those lines and that site is first link. Doesn't make it wrong, just shows there are interests other than our own in key governmental spots

And for the record I wouldn't have a fuck to give one way or the other about Israel so long as they keep their mitts out of the pocket of the US taxpayer. Same goes for all the other countries out there

Not a big fan given some of their shenanigans but we have picked worse allies in the past. I think some people mistake "allies" with "friends", and there is also a really weird tendency I sometimes see posted here and elsewhere that people try to make out like Israelis live in the 51st state or something. There are a loy of cultural differences and I don't think your average American (or member here) would see eye to eye with the average Israeli on a lot of politics.

That said, I have met some truly awesome Israelis, but I do not believe they are guiltless (the country, not the individuals) with regards to what goes on in and around their borders, even if much of what they do is born from necessity. It's a sticky and awful situation no armchair political enthusiast on a gun board could ever accurately describe.

So, mixed feelings.

I agree in that I think Israel isn't without fault, but if we feel that we need to shovel billions in aid $$ then I'd rather it go to Israel than most other places.

I see your Wikipedia, and raise you quotes from my fellow conspiracy theorizers:

Then Secretary of State dean Rusk:
" . . .  an act of military recklessness reflecting wanton disregard for human life."

Then Secretary of State Dean Rusk in a 10 June 1967 diplomatic note to the Israeli Ambassador.

"But I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous."

Rusk, As I Saw It, W.W.Norton, 1990. p 388

John Stenbit, Assistant Secretary of Defense for C3I

"The Israelis told us 24 hours before that ...if we didn't move it, they would sink it. Unfortunately, the ship was not moved, and by the time the message arrived the ship was taking on water."

John Stenbit, Assistant Secretary of Defense for C3Im in an address to the AFEI/NDAI Conference for Net Centric Operations, Wednesday, April 16, 2003


"It's an American ship!" the pilot of an Israeli Mirage fighter-bomber radioed Tel Aviv as he sighted the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967. Israeli headquarters ordered the pilot to attack the American ship.

former US Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter describing transcripts of communications he saw, reported in syndicated column "Remembering the Liberty" by Rowland Evans and Robert Novak, November 6, 1991.

"No one in the White House believed that the attack was an accident."

George Christian, Press Secretary to President Lyndon Johnson in letter to James Ennes, 1978.

". . . the commander of the Sixth Fleet was informed by the Washington Intelligence Apparatus that it had evidence that the Liberty was going to be attacked and to provide protection for it. That message was never really acted upon, and the ship was dead in the water when it was hit. So the end result was no accident."

-- Raymond Tate, Deputy Assistant SecNav and Deputy Director, NSA, Worldwide C3I and Telecommunications (1980, pp. 25-47)

"Retired Navy legal counsel Capt. Ward Boston says he and the court's president, the late Rear Adm. Isaac "Ike" Kidd, always believed Israeli forces knowingly attacked the Liberty. 'I feel the Israelis knew what they were doing. They knew they were shooting at a U.S. Navy ship,' said Boston, who lives in Coronado, Calif. 'That's the bottom line. I don't care how they tried to get out of it.'"

had no role in the board of inquiry that followed, or the board's finding that there could be no doubt that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty. I have yet to understand why it was felt necessary to attack this ship or who ordered the attack."

Richard Helms, then-Director of Central Intelligence (CIA Director), A Look Over My Shoulder


On the strength of intercept transcripts of pilots' conversations during the attack, the question of the attack's deliberateness "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the agency.

Lieutenant General William E. Odom, former director, National Security Agency, interview with David Walsh on March 3, 2003, reported in Naval Institute Proceedings, June, 2003


After more than two hours of unremitting assault, the Israelis finally halted their attack. One of the torpedo boats approached the Liberty. This same torpedo boat crew had been circling the ship, machine-gunning anyone who stuck his head above decks, as well as the lifeboats the crew had put over the side.
What had changed? The Israeli government knew that US aircraft carriers had just launched aircraft to come to Liberty's aid and the attack was quickly called off. The Israeli government called the US Embassy and said that they had made a "mistake."

A torpedo boat officer asked in English over a bullhorn: "Do you need any help?"

The wounded commander of the Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, instructed the quartermaster to respond emphatically: "Fuck you."

Inman said he "flatly rejected" the Cristol thesis that the attack was an accident. "It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [USS Liberty] was not correctly identified" based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge of intercepted communications. No NSA official could be found who dissented from the "deliberate" conclusion.
Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN, Director National Security Agency 1977-1981, reported in Proceedings, June, 2003


"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that they knew they were attacking an American ship."

Oliver Kirby, former deputy director for operations/production, National Security Agency.



...but what would these conspiracy kooks know about it - right?  Wikipedia is a much better source than these guys ....

Why the Hell should we give Israel any money at all? If they cannot survive without financial assistance, they're not a viable nation, and should properly cease to exist as such.

I don't. I think that stuff is self-serving nonsense, written by Jews, to benefit Jews.

That's silly. We got along just fine for a century and a half when Israel did not exist.

I support Israel for many reasons:

This.

And it's not just Israel.  Our government throwing taxpayer money around the globe like some sort of demented, kleptocratic Santa Claus and then whining that it doesn't have enough revenue is a disgusting spectacle.

this fuck all of them, I don't mind jews but I would be ok if the entire middle east was radioactive..... the entire middle east.... so many lives wasted for nothing over there and every nation is a bunch of back stabbing liars.... fuck all of them

I agree
We shouldn't give foreign money to anyone, considering that many of the nations we do give money to hate us, (like Egypt and the Saudis).
But with Israel, why should we be giving money to a first world country that can take care of theirselves?

Really?  I don't see many Jewish suicide bombers or "refugees" raping and pillaging Europe.

geopolitics by arfcoms best and brightest.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion.

Yes, and I suppose I snipped too much of the original quote -- FlyWire didn't type that muslims are dragging us into war.

as noted, the key difference with israel is we took something from them, the sinai, and agreed to give them military aid (which goes to american defense contractors) in exchange.

We give it because of the crazy Christians, and the Jewish powers that be in politics.
I for one do not want a to see a dime go to any nation as we are broke. Why are we putting ourselves and our future
generations in debt for anyone.

Well, you've got "the Jews are God's chosen people" you have "they blew up one of our ships!" and "the Israelis aren't great, but they're less horrible than their neighbors, even after blowing up one of our ships." You also have "The Jews did 9/11!" "Islam must be totally destroyed!" and "I like lamp."
I'd be content with them defending their socialist paradise with their own money.

Never mind.

The Muslims who want to kill any type of progress and return to stone-age barbarism.
The Jews who had to make sure they got that one specific shitty piece of land, instead of the dozens of other lands they could have had under the British empire (Madagascar, etc.), where they're not surrounded by people that hate them.
The Christians who are at the beck and call of Israel (Jews) because of some religious Apocalypse fantasy where their saviour comes back. I wouldn't be surprised if they would rather have America destroyed instead of Israel (if they had to choose).

This is WWIII.

We need to move away from faith (that goes for Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc., etc.). We're not going to live for another 1000 years with nuclear weapons and religion.

OP is closet 88er

I support Israel on the basis that they are a fairly pro western sovereign nation that looks out for their own survival first and foremost.

It isn't because they're a nation of Jews. It is because they're tough mother fuckers.


Now I do think that US Israel relations need to change. Either we become really close. Like we should have bases in Israel and they should get actually involved in our shit or we cut off aid to them.


They aren't a new fledgling nation. They have their own defense industry and Operation Nickel Grass was a.good thing but a slap in the face to our guys in Vietnam.


If Israel wants that support again.... then send the IDF to wherever the fuck we go and actually conduct combat operations with US Forces.

USS Liberty>Benghazi

I like Israel, I don't like that Israeli money is used to undermine the second amendment.


But I don't like foreigners spending money here to undermine the sovereign right of Americans.

I think we should stop foreign aid in general and if we do it. Make it like the Hessian.... you get our money, we get you warm bodies and material to fight wars.

 

Meh, I think the unquestioned support of Israel is a bit silly, but I also think a lot of the criticisms levied against Israel are silly.  Its a mixed bag, which is why I usually stay out of Israel threads.

Weird as fuck. Perfect timing.

Just posted today:

Perhaps because you LIVE IN a "quasi-socialist country"?

Glass houses and such.

 
I've seen OP accused of a lot of things, but an 88er isn't one of them.


Throw out some links.

They're further down the line than we are, and were founded to be that way. We're on a bad road but we're not there yet.

There is a fine line between post whoring and trolling, but FPNI!

This. I've never considered them anything but a nation of professional welfare whores. If I woke up tomorrow and they had decimated the rest of the parasites in that region that would be great and all but I honestly don't think it would register much on my give-a-fuck meter if it was the other way around.

Instead of preaching "never again" and cashing welfare checks they should get off their ass and do something.

We get enough bad press in the Middle East without doing joint operations with Israel.

No, I'm am on the side of supporting them if the Arab Horde tried to wipe them off the Earth. As I said... Operation Nickel Grass was the right thing to do. But I do believe our partnership should be more close knit.

 

they cash every check we send them in a timely manner!