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Posted: 4/27/2001 6:50:46 AM EDT
[:(] How Sad is the current new production AR's from Colt. In addition to the missing banned features (bayo lug & flash supressor) 1. the receiver is "blocked" 2. No Chrome Lining in the Chamber and Barrel 3. The bolt carrier had extra material that shrouds the back of the firing pin. (not GI) all that for about $1000.00 it sucks that the highest quality manufacturer builds such a SELL-OUT Rifle.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 6:53:24 AM EDT
Highest quality? I thought it was a Colt, not an Armalite...
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 6:54:52 AM EDT
Roger that Juggernuts, i have an armalite too.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:08:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Roger that Juggernuts, i have an armalite too.
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Amalites are just higher qual. Nuff said. Can't let this go...If that was meant to be an insult, fine, but I'm hoping that "Juggernuts" is an accidental mis-spelling.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:16:34 AM EDT
of course [beer]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:19:49 AM EDT
The extra material shrouding the end of the firing pin IS GI. The cut away carriers are the AR15 types. On the new Colt carriers they only cut away the back of the carrier to prevent a drop in sear from working with it. Other than that it is just like the GI carriers. I prefer the carrier to not be cut around the firing pin anyway. The blocked receivers are better than the older ones with the ugly looking seperate block that is pinned in. On the new lowers they just dont cut out the well all the way and leave a "fence" across the well. Looks better and works fine. I had heard Colt was going back to chrome bore/chamber on civilian AR's. Maybe they havent or the new gun is one that has been in stock for a while. But I dont care for the unlined barrels either. No AR should have unlined barrels unless its a dedicated target weapon.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:26:25 AM EDT
Back in the days of the "old" ar15.com I started a flame war concerning the current quality of the Colt rifles. In days of yore I owned some nice Colt's, unfortunately I sold them all for big bills when the 94 ban came down. (I was in grad school and needed money! Mea Culpa!) So, when I hefted one of their new production rifles last year I almost $hit my pants! In fact I think I even compared them to the Egyptian MAADI AKMs. I think that Colt's owners and operators (the People's Republik of Connecticut) don't care about anything but keeping people employed and government contracts. And their civilian products reflect this!
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:44:15 AM EDT
I'm with Schnert on this one. I also sold a couple of early 70's vintage Colts right after the ban. Their new crap is just that: crap.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:45:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2001 7:53:08 AM EDT by markm]
hey Gun Toter, is there some functional difference between the two carriers? when i opened it up, i assumed that is was just colt's additional effort to prevent Auto Conversions.(i've never had the chance to inspect m-16 internals)
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 7:55:08 AM EDT
Juggernaut, If I were you I think I would take Juggernuts as a compliment! [beer]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 8:23:20 AM EDT
Well if new Colts are crap, they sure don't make crap like they used to. My MT6731 is one of the nicest ARs I have ever seen. And I paid well below $1,000 for it NIB. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/034/fv/kv/9j/gK30384.jpg[/img] [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/016/wg/kE/wB/gT57435.jpg[/img] [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/014/BT/GX/Q8/gP31091.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 8:30:25 AM EDT
Friends DON'T let friends buy Colt!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 8:34:55 AM EDT
NICE, Boomer! despite previous mentioned features, you still can't beat that beautiful colt finish!
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 8:41:11 AM EDT
markm, The carriers function the same, the difference is that the AR15 carrier wont trip the auto sear or a drop in sear. Thats so it wont work in full auto. Most other manufacturers cut out the bottom of the carrier around the firing pin to prevent a modification to the sear where the hammer follows the bolt down. The open firing pin will catch the hammer, the new Colt ones wont. But its a better design and isnt as hard on the firing pin when its cocking the hammer. The M16 carrier is the same way as the new Colts except the rear of the carrier is a full circle and not cutout on the bottom rear.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 8:47:14 AM EDT
I have both. I like both. I Love ArmaLite. ArmaLite has absolutly no peer in service to the owner. That means ArmaLite is the best buy.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 8:53:51 AM EDT
Geezus Krist....the Colt bashing never ends does it? LOL!! I bought a new MT6731 a month ago. It is perfect in every way. 600+ rounds down range and 0 malfunctions. Shoots 1-1/2" out of the box with cheap ammo S/A Mil-Spec. Why is the recevier block an issue. Are you guys converting your Bushmasters to illegal machine guns? If your not, who cares. I asked a question about new Colt production rifles and chrome lined barrels and not one person replied or could say why the chrome linning was important. What advantage does it have over a non-lined barrel? You will not see barrel degredation or throat erosion, the pressures of a .223 are not high enough. 22-250 or 220 swift yes, .223 no. Maybe after 10,000 rounds with a .223 you'll see that. And I compared my Colt with a current Bushmaster and it is as good or better than Bushy. I paid $849. for mine with a colt factory 30rd mag and a 3-9 scope. The Bushy I saw at the range the other day was jamming and the guy was having all kinds of problems. He had GI mags and was using several brands of ammo. Said it had been back to Bushmaster twice. This was a brand new gun. So don't tell me about the unparalleled quality of Bushmaster. They have a fine rifle but it is not superior. If anything it is even IMO. This Colt purchase was my first AR and with the 0 problems I've had with it, it will be real hard for me to buy something different. [img]blackrifle.tripod.com/ARwScope.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 9:01:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2001 9:03:06 AM EDT by Jewbroni]
$1000? The problem isn't that this guy got a Colt (which has a great out-of-the-box barrel for accuracy), but that you paid a grand for it! I got my Colt non-HBAR 20" A2 for about $690 3 months ago. Now, that's dirt cheap and you'll not find that price anywhere else, but I got well more than what I paid for. Even the HBAR's where I bought mine were less than $800, and I'm assuming you got an HBAR (b/c my non-HBAR model isn't very popular, nor is it listed on the Colt website anymore!) Me thinks, unless he got some special barrel, bolt assembly, or trigger job, your friend paid a bit too much for a Colt. Nonetheless, I think he'll be pleased with the accuracy, just remember to tell him to clean it (at least the barrel) after everytime he shoots; while non-chrome lined barrels are better for accuracy, they tend to be more succeptible to wear and tear from normal bullets, and don't last quite as long as chrome-lined. So keep those patches running through it, and I think he'll be please with the otherwise quality gun that was bought [:P] Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 9:14:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15: Juggernaut, If I were you I think I would take Juggernuts as a compliment! [beer]
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Not gonna go there...[:D] I really wish Colt would go Mil Spec, I want rifles I can swap parts on. I can't afford their prebans(the only really goooooood looking Colt's that I've seen.) I'll take and Armalite, Bushmaster(finish isn't as pretty as Colt), or DPMS. May soon also put RRA and Cavalry arms ahead of Colt too. Till they go Mil-spec(chrome lined, regular pins, receiver and carrier), and cut the no-QC junk on their newer rifles, there will always be a better choice.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 9:39:26 AM EDT
And why is the front takedown such an issue? I bought a replacement pin from brownells for mine but I don't like it and put the factory pin back in. I don't take the fron pin out anyway and can't think of a reason I'd need to at the range. I carry a screwdriver in my range box so if something on the gun is that f$&ked that I have to remove that front pin, using a screwdriver is'nt going to be that big a deal as the gun is non functional anyway.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 9:46:52 AM EDT
markm, thanks. The quality of this Colt goes far beneath that beautiful skin. It's ironic that, given the nature of the complaints so far about the newer Colts, ArmaLite would be held up as better rifle. I don't believe that ArmaLite chrome lines their chambers or bores, either. Shooting Times did a 10,000 round torture test on a Colt HBAR without the gun itself malfunctioning once, although the barrel did begin to suffer from throat erosion at around the 9,000 round mark. Even then, it was suspected that the erosion occured because of firing so many round so quickly. 10,000 rounds in less than 2 days is an awful lot of shooting, folks. And if I recall correctly, the ArmaLite lowers have an effective block of their own in that the floor of the receiver is not milled as deeply and it has an inward taper to it, basically a V shape. At any rate, I certainly like the look of the newer integral style block Colt is using as opposed to the earlier pinned in ones. Personally, I don't really care about the blocks anyhow as I don't plan on going full auto. If I were planning on that, I would simply move to another state and buy an M16. It would be nice if Colt would use the same standard part dimensions as everyone else, but their lack of doing so hasn't limited the options available to those of us who prefer and demand Colt quality. My only real gripes about the newer Colts haven't even been mentioned yet. They would be the plastic buffer and the plastic buttplate/trapdoor. But these parts still work just fine and are easily and inexpensively replaced if they were to actually fail or are simply that much of a concern to anyone. ArmaLite may indeed have no peer in service to their customers. I wouldn't know. As I so far only own Colt ARs, I have never had a need to send one back for service or repair even though they offer a lifetime service agreement. I have called them to verify a couple of serial numbers as being pre-ban and they sent me an owners manual for free, but that was it. No build quality problems, misaligned sights, hiccups, or anything else out the 5 Colts I have so far. It seems as though Colt has no peer in getting it right the first time. And that makes Colt the best buy in my book.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 10:54:19 AM EDT
The chrome lining is the biggest reason I went with Bushmaster over building a model 1. Longer life, higher velocity, more reliable, easier to clean. These are qualities I was willing to trade for a hit on accuracy and a small one at that. It is mil spec or nothing for me which equates to Armalite or Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 11:01:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: [:(] How Sad is the current new production AR's from Colt. In addition to the missing banned features (bayo lug & flash supressor) 3. The bolt carrier had extra material that shrouds the back of the firing pin. (not GI) it sucks that the highest quality manufacturer builds such a SELL-OUT Rifle.
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I see your #3 as a benefit b/c it allows me to de-cock the the hammer w/o having to separate the recievers or drop the hammer on an empty chamber. Also, I though M16 bolt carries have shrouded firing pins, which would be Government Issue.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 11:43:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: Shooting Times did a 10,000 round torture test on a Colt HBAR without the gun itself malfunctioning once, although the barrel did begin to suffer from throat erosion at around the 9,000 round mark. Even then, it was suspected that the erosion occured because of firing so many round so quickly. 10,000 rounds in less than 2 days is an awful lot of shooting, folks.
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Boomer I'm glad you posted that tid bit of info. I was unaware somebody did a test on an HBAR. But it backs up what I said above about the number of rounds that can be put through a barrel without problems. I've been shooting varmint guns for years that don't have chrome lined barrels and those rifles are still going. Hell, I never had any rifle with a chrome lined barrel until I bought an AK-47. It is no easier to clean than may AR or any other barrel. Also, I don't like the plastic trapdoor. Where can I get a metal one? The recoil buffers you can buy at gun shows $10. I guess I'll have to look for a different buttplate. Those are my only complaints with my rifle as well. Also, if I'm not mistaken the Bushmaster has the plastic trapdoor also.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 3:30:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 4:08:57 PM EDT
I got a question for you guys. I have 2 bushmaster lowers. People talk about bushmasters jamming. What is making it jam the lower, upper,mag or ammo? Also you guys mentioned mil spec. Will armalite and bushy interchange w/o problems? Uppers and lowers.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 4:22:08 PM EDT
My bushmaster is touchy about which mags it likes. I bought a few military mags and they function flawlessly with the cheapest ammo you can find. I refuse to put the factory mag back into the gun. It jams every other shot. As far as my bushmaster goes, put the right mag in and it will rock and roll.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:30:22 AM EDT
We went out and shot the NEW COLT last weekend. i was chronoing some rounds, and he was BZOing his new colt. The new rifle shot beautiful. but i got a Phone call from him later.... He was having a hell of a time cleaning the 1/7 non-chromed bore. lots of copper fouling!
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:56:40 AM EDT
He was having a hell of a time cleaning the 1/7 non-chromed bore. lots of copper fouling!
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That doesn't really mean a whole lot without us having the benefit of knowing how meticulous or anal your friend is about cleaning his firearms. Try getting ALL of the copper fouling out of a chrome lined barrel sometime. While it may be easier, it's still no simple task. For the record, the barrel on my M1 Garand is over 50 years old and still going strong without chrome lining.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 8:03:06 AM EDT
COLT[smash].....COLT[smash].....COLT[smash].....COLT[smash].....COLT[smash]
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