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Posted: 2/17/2016 3:35:51 PM EDT
[#1]
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Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them. I thought this was a particularly poignant and far-reaching statement. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 3:36:55 PM EDT
[#2]
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Or what?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I bet if they were some flavor of white supremacist terrorists apple would be falling all over themselves to help the govt unlock the phone.  Stop. Or what? I'll tell the gov to crack all his encryption. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#3]
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If I'm understanding you correctly, that was before they implemented the encryption in hardware, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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SNIP That's how they designed the 5s and iOS 9. 5c Partially. It was before secure enclave. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 5:12:21 PM EDT
[#4]
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I get the part about not wanting to build a new OS with a .gov backdoor. What I don't get is Apple not unlocking that phone. If you think Apple can't unlock that phone... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you read the OP, you would know the issue. What you wrote there ain't it. You fail to see a lot of things about this issue and the future implications it has to the average everyday citizen. But it's ok because terrorism, right? I get the part about not wanting to build a new OS with a .gov backdoor. What I don't get is Apple not unlocking that phone. If you think Apple can't unlock that phone... They can't. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 5:51:30 PM EDT
[#5]
well at least now they can say they asked us before going to the NSA
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Posted: 2/17/2016 7:51:50 PM EDT
[#6]
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And a hearty "fuck you" to the FBI and all the other government snoops. I hope Google sends the same letter, as a preemptive strike. Anybody here use Open Whisper Signal application on their phone for calls and text messages? I am now. 
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Posted: 2/17/2016 7:55:41 PM EDT
[#7]
honestly, I'm more fearful of the govt having access to encryption than terrorists.
Good job apple, Hope they can hold the line. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:00:29 PM EDT
[#8]
My response to Apple:
1) We get it, you have to keep up appearances. We understand your decision to not to help the USA in a time of war to prevent further civilian deaths in this one off case with court order tailored to one specific phone. 2) We won't bother you again. 3) P.S. We are directing the State Department under Under E.O. 13224 to consider Apple an entity that is providing aid to Foreign Terrorists Organizations and prohibit export of their devices and import of goods into the USA until this matter is resolved. We also will put a freeze on Apple assets under US jurisdiction, block foreign trade, and prohibit financial transactions. 4) You are free to continue your Transgender Awareness Days though. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:01:00 PM EDT
[#9]
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Funny thing is if they hadn't guessed the password incorrectly to force the phone into lockdown, they probably could have just accessed the contents of the phone (or at least the backup of it) via icloud by requesting a password reset via email. Then again, I am betting the govt already has access to what is on the phone via the NSA. This is a dog and pony show distraction IMO. Or our government really is this inept. The contents of the phone are encrypted. Why is that so difficult to understand, people? |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:02:33 PM EDT
[#10]
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I am now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And a hearty "fuck you" to the FBI and all the other government snoops. I hope Google sends the same letter, as a preemptive strike. Anybody here use Open Whisper Signal application on their phone for calls and text messages? I am now. Do you like it, or do you mean that you are going to start using it now? |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:12:00 PM EDT
[#11]
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That was a really well written piece. Bravo Apple and Tim Cook.  I agree. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:13:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought this was a particularly poignant and far-reaching statement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them. I thought this was a particularly poignant and far-reaching statement. Amazing, that's the exact logic we use to try to refute the gun grabbers.. 
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:13:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Google will not say the same thing as Apple.
All of the people who are so gungho for Apple to comply, what would you say if a foreign govt ordered Apple to do the same thing? If the US govt can force Apple to do something like this, it will make it easy for a foreign govt to also force Apple to provide them with access to a phone. Apple has operations all over the world and derives revenue from all over the world, including foreign countries. Google not so much. This is why you won't hear them say anything. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 9:17:11 PM EDT
[#14]
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Amazing, that's the exact logic we use to try to refute the gun grabbers.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them. I thought this was a particularly poignant and far-reaching statement. Amazing, that's the exact logic we use to try to refute the gun grabbers.. Which makes sense because cryptography is (or was) classified as a "munition." |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 9:24:58 PM EDT
[#15]
What's remarkable to me, is that nobody realized that the possible intelligence value of whatever is on this nobody's phone is VASTLY LESS than the national security damage caused by making a huge public spectacle of the fact that a properly configured iPhone 5c cannot be cracked without OEM assistance (and maybe not even then).
Way to go FBI. My next phone will be an iPhone. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 9:28:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Good for them.
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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:53:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Good.
I'm happy to hear that apple will fight this! |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:58:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's remarkable to me, is that nobody realized that the possible intelligence value of whatever is on this nobody's phone is VASTLY LESS than the national security damage caused by making a huge public spectacle of the fact that a properly configured iPhone 5c cannot be cracked without OEM assistance (and maybe not even then). Way to go FBI. My next phone will be an iPhone. Anyone with anything worth encrypting on their phones has had it encrypted since long before this story came out.
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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:58:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Google will not say the same thing as Apple. All of the people who are so gungho for Apple to comply, what would you say if a foreign govt ordered Apple to do the same thing? If the US govt can force Apple to do something like this, it will make it easy for a foreign govt to also force Apple to provide them with access to a phone. Apple has operations all over the world and derives revenue from all over the world, including foreign countries. Google not so much. This is why you won't hear them say anything. I'm not sure if you are serious. Apple has 1/10th the global marketshare as Google and Google products... Apple is mainly an American phenomenon due to how Americans purchase electronics and luxury goods differently than the rest of the world. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:06:00 AM EDT
[#20]
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They can't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you read the OP, you would know the issue. What you wrote there ain't it. You fail to see a lot of things about this issue and the future implications it has to the average everyday citizen. But it's ok because terrorism, right? I get the part about not wanting to build a new OS with a .gov backdoor. What I don't get is Apple not unlocking that phone. If you think Apple can't unlock that phone... They can't. When they testify under oath in court that they can't...I will belive it. Apple loves their holier than thou BS. Rules for thee but not for me... They want restrictions on everyone else but I would bet that they have a way internally. I would be shocked if they didn't and I would be more shocked if the USG didn't know this and know exactly what they are asking for is already in existance at Apple. Generally, folks working those cases are not going to go to the trouble of doing paper that goes public unless they already know that what they are papering is both possible and located where they send the paper. This isn't their first rodeo. Time will tell. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:13:01 AM EDT
[#21]
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Good. Cuz 4th amendment Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile 4th Amendment is not the issue here given they have a viable warrant, consent of the phone owner, and a court order. There are constructive objections here, but that is not one of them. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:15:42 AM EDT
[#22]
... Good!
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:23:13 AM EDT
[#23]
While it would make lots of intel and counter intel stuff much easier, it would immediately become the new thing attached to every single warrant applied to everything from high schooler dick pics to SAFE act enforcement.
So fuck no. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:23:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My response to Apple: 1) We get it, you have to keep up appearances. We understand your decision to not to help the USA in a time of war to prevent further civilian deaths in this one off case with court order tailored to one specific phone. 2) We won't bother you again. 3) P.S. We are directing the State Department under Under E.O. 13224 to consider Apple an entity that is providing aid to Foreign Terrorists Organizations and prohibit export of their devices and import of goods into the USA until this matter is resolved. We also will put a freeze on Apple assets under US jurisdiction, block foreign trade, and prohibit financial transactions. 4) You are free to continue your Transgender Awareness Days though. This is possibly the most retarded thing I've read here. Ever. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:27:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's remarkable to me, is that nobody realized that the possible intelligence value of whatever is on this nobody's phone is VASTLY LESS than the national security damage caused by making a huge public spectacle of the fact that a properly configured iPhone 5c cannot be cracked without OEM assistance (and maybe not even then). Way to go FBI. My next phone will be an iPhone. Was thinking that too. I mentioned in another post, it was reported that the terrorists destroyed most of their phone and computer equipment. This phone was left on the seat of his car (car wasn't used in the attack). It was his government provided work phone, he apparently had a personal phone too (that was destroyed). While I get that these two were not the best and the brightest, I doubt he was using his county provided work phone to organize jihad. Also: Kind of surprising that a government provided phone doesn't have some sort of remote access. Considering they track govt cars and monitor emails, one would think they would monitor the issued phones of employees, or at least be able to get into them to access work information in the event of somebody rage quitting or dying. ETA: On the other hand, I still am not unconvinced that the NSA already has anything and everything they want to know about these dickheads. There might be something that they want to "leak" to the public but they have to have a "source" as to where this information came from. Making a huge "we forced apple to give it to us" show out of it lets it come out without the govt tipping their hand as to what level of surveillance/tracking/access they have to pretty much everybody. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:30:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's remarkable to me, is that nobody realized that the possible intelligence value of whatever is on this nobody's phone is VASTLY LESS than the national security damage caused by making a huge public spectacle of the fact that a properly configured iPhone 5c cannot be cracked without OEM assistance (and maybe not even then). Way to go FBI. My next phone will be an iPhone. Also this. Construction of self licking icecream cone. Now after the next few jihadis all have locked Iphones there will be more "justification" to "fix" apples compliance issue. You wont hear shit out of google because they sold their souls to the government a long time ago. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:35:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is possibly the most retarded thing I've read here. Ever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My response to Apple: 1) We get it, you have to keep up appearances. We understand your decision to not to help the USA in a time of war to prevent further civilian deaths in this one off case with court order tailored to one specific phone. 2) We won't bother you again. 3) P.S. We are directing the State Department under Under E.O. 13224 to consider Apple an entity that is providing aid to Foreign Terrorists Organizations and prohibit export of their devices and import of goods into the USA until this matter is resolved. We also will put a freeze on Apple assets under US jurisdiction, block foreign trade, and prohibit financial transactions. 4) You are free to continue your Transgender Awareness Days though. This is possibly the most retarded thing I've read here. Ever. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 12:40:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good for Apple. If Apple caves, it sets a precedent Then for later cases the question only becomes "what is the THRESHOLD for releasing private info to government agencies"? ISIS terrorists? Some government-created watch list? Any local PD? ARFCOM/NRA member? |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 1:52:52 AM EDT
[#29]
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I'm not sure if you are serious. Apple has 1/10th the global marketshare as Google and Google products... Apple is mainly an American phenomenon due to how Americans purchase electronics and luxury goods differently than the rest of the world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Google will not say the same thing as Apple. All of the people who are so gungho for Apple to comply, what would you say if a foreign govt ordered Apple to do the same thing? If the US govt can force Apple to do something like this, it will make it easy for a foreign govt to also force Apple to provide them with access to a phone. Apple has operations all over the world and derives revenue from all over the world, including foreign countries. Google not so much. This is why you won't hear them say anything. I'm not sure if you are serious. Apple has 1/10th the global marketshare as Google and Google products... Apple is mainly an American phenomenon due to how Americans purchase electronics and luxury goods differently than the rest of the world. Where have you lived outside the US? Because that statement is completely wrong. First "Google" doesn't make devices. Samsung, HTC, Nokia, Motorola, etc, make vast product lines that vary from $5 to $1500 devices with comparable capabilities. The vast amount of Android marketshare is those deeploy discounted devices that have barely any capability and are not in any way comparable to a several-generations-old iphone. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 1:54:48 AM EDT
[#30]
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When they testify under oath in court that they can't...I will belive it. Apple loves their holier than thou BS. Rules for thee but not for me... They want restrictions on everyone else but I would bet that they have a way internally. I would be shocked if they didn't and I would be more shocked if the USG didn't know this and know exactly what they are asking for is already in existance at Apple. Generally, folks working those cases are not going to go to the trouble of doing paper that goes public unless they already know that what they are papering is both possible and located where they send the paper. This isn't their first rodeo. Time will tell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you read the OP, you would know the issue. What you wrote there ain't it. You fail to see a lot of things about this issue and the future implications it has to the average everyday citizen. But it's ok because terrorism, right? I get the part about not wanting to build a new OS with a .gov backdoor. What I don't get is Apple not unlocking that phone. If you think Apple can't unlock that phone... They can't. When they testify under oath in court that they can't...I will belive it. Apple loves their holier than thou BS. Rules for thee but not for me... They want restrictions on everyone else but I would bet that they have a way internally. I would be shocked if they didn't and I would be more shocked if the USG didn't know this and know exactly what they are asking for is already in existance at Apple. Generally, folks working those cases are not going to go to the trouble of doing paper that goes public unless they already know that what they are papering is both possible and located where they send the paper. This isn't their first rodeo. Time will tell. There's a lot more to this than I initially thought, because this is dealing with a very old device. I thought it was more modern device -- the ones without secure enclave probably can be modified this way. |
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Posted: 2/19/2016 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#31]
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This is possibly the most retarded thing I've read here. Ever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My response to Apple: 1) We get it, you have to keep up appearances. We understand your decision to not to help the USA in a time of war to prevent further civilian deaths in this one off case with court order tailored to one specific phone. 2) We won't bother you again. 3) P.S. We are directing the State Department under Under E.O. 13224 to consider Apple an entity that is providing aid to Foreign Terrorists Organizations and prohibit export of their devices and import of goods into the USA until this matter is resolved. We also will put a freeze on Apple assets under US jurisdiction, block foreign trade, and prohibit financial transactions. 4) You are free to continue your Transgender Awareness Days though. This is possibly the most retarded thing I've read here. Ever. Stick around ..... you'll get lots of new surprises. |
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