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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:14:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:27:44 PM EDT
[#2]
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I wonder what would happen if the dead guy had shot the cop and said it was an accident. No doubt. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:28:57 PM EDT
[#3]
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? I would, but then I believe in personal responsibility. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:31:29 PM EDT
[#4]
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Not nearly the same thing. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:36:08 PM EDT
[#5]
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He is being sacrificed on the altar of BLM Bullshit.He is being held liable for his actions. If he is lucky he will get 1-5 and be out in 18 months. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:43:16 PM EDT
[#6]
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Bullshit.He is being held liable for his actions. If he is lucky he will get 1-5 and be out in 18 months. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He is being sacrificed on the altar of BLM Bullshit.He is being held liable for his actions. If he is lucky he will get 1-5 and be out in 18 months. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:47:20 PM EDT
[#7]
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People get killed by lots of people in lots of occupations without getting tossed in the pokey. edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course This is true, but isn't the perception that LEO's have training and expertise, especially with deadly weapons? A skill set geared toward police work and generally keeping the public safe? At least more so than the individuals in other occupations where people are killed? Not trying to be an asshole, but that statement seems to imply this officer should be held to the standard of say, a sanitation engineer? |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:50:50 PM EDT
[#8]
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People get killed by lots of people in lots of occupations without getting tossed in the pokey. edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course I have to wonder if the officer safety mindset doesnt play a big role in this..seems like over the last 30 years or so the constant pushing the envelope of whats acceptable tactics has brought some of this front and center..such as in this case firearm out and finger on the trigger when he thought the stairwell was empty..clearly no articulable danger, yet he had his firearm out and finger touching the trigger......It is truly a sad deal for all involved no matter what... 
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:52:03 PM EDT
[#9]
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People get killed by lots of people in lots of occupations without getting tossed in the pokey. edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course I get where you are coming from, but I totally disagree with the premise that an officer of the law killing an innocent citizen accidentally, is the same as killing someone in some type of industrial accident. It is a totally different societal dynamic. Of course, I also think it is stupid for police to attempt to use the protections of the BORs to clam up about acts they just committed under the authority of the state. Society has to have confidence in the police. That is the only way the system will work when the government agents are serving at the pleasure of the people. They need the support of law abiding citizens. How can society be expected to respect and support the police if they don't have confidence that the system will protect them from police when innocent people are killed? That means they should be forced to be accountable when people are killed. If not, the confidence is eroded. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 3:55:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Great power = great responsibility. I think some cops (I SAID SOME, NOT ALL) try to have one without the other.
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Posted: 2/12/2016 4:01:16 PM EDT
[#11]
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Shoot & kill an innocent person and you can reasonably expect to see the inside of a jail. What's so complicated about this 
Also Oh ... For ... Fuck's ... Sake  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot & kill an innocent person and you can reasonably expect to see the inside of a jail. What's so complicated about this
Also "Sadly a young, nonbiased Asian officer lost his own life today for trying to..." Oh ... For ... Fuck's ... Sake In some cases law enforcement has been exempt from this, That is why so much butt hurt. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 4:42:36 PM EDT
[#12]
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Not if he was doing it right. On the other hand, we had a cop here a number of years ago, blew through an intersection and killed someone during a pursuit. No lights or siren. Negligence is negligence. Cops don't get to walk around with their finger on the trigger, and shoot people that startle them. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 5:39:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if he was doing it right. On the other hand, we had a cop here a number of years ago, blew through an intersection and killed someone during a pursuit. No lights or siren. Negligence is negligence. Cops don't get to walk around with their finger on the trigger, and shoot people that startle them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Not if he was doing it right. On the other hand, we had a cop here a number of years ago, blew through an intersection and killed someone during a pursuit. No lights or siren. Negligence is negligence. Cops don't get to walk around with their finger on the trigger, and shoot people that startle them. He would have been convicted of a fatal crash had he been drinking a big gulp in one hand, texting with the other while involved in a high speed pursuit. That is a more comparable amount of recklessness. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:09:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Liang's partner fired
The former partner of ex-NYPD Officer Peter Liang was fired by the department Friday, one day after his former colleague’s conviction for fatally shooting a Brooklyn man.
Rookie cop Shaun Landau, who testified against Liang at trial, was canned shortly after the family of victim Akai Gurley issued a public demand for his dismissal. Liang was fired from the NYPD immediately after the Thursday night conviction, in keeping with departmental policy. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:19:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is being sacrificed on the altar of BLM Or he's being held accountable for criminal activity. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:20:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He would have been convicted of a fatal crash had he been drinking a big gulp in one hand, texting with the other while involved in a high speed pursuit. That is a more comparable amount of recklessness. Not in CA. 
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:24:33 PM EDT
[#17]
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Or he's being held accountable for criminal activity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He is being sacrificed on the altar of BLM Or he's being held accountable for criminal activity. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:03:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Liang's partner fired The former partner of ex-NYPD Officer Peter Liang was fired by the department Friday, one day after his former colleague’s conviction for fatally shooting a Brooklyn man.
Rookie cop Shaun Landau, who testified against Liang at trial, was canned shortly after the family of victim Akai Gurley issued a public demand for his dismissal. Liang was fired from the NYPD immediately after the Thursday night conviction, in keeping with departmental policy. What the fuck? What did he do? |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:06:27 PM EDT
[#19]
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I cannot believe how this is now unfolding Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He is being sacrificed on the altar of BLM Or he's being held accountable for criminal activity. Neither can my Grandmother. She was used to seeing some crazy NYPD stuff back in the day. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:07:32 PM EDT
[#20]
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Boo hoo. I guess he accidentally had his finger on the trigger. Cops should absolutely be held to a higher standard on stuff like this. It was the changing story, the argument with partner as to who would call it in, the call to his union before medics, and his refusal to provide 1st aid that buried him. Pulling the trigger was just the 1st of his many fuck ups. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:11:04 PM EDT
[#21]
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It was the changing story, the argument with partner as to who would call it in, the call to his union before medics, and his refusal to provide 1st aid that buried him. Pulling the trigger was just the 1st of his many fuck ups. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Boo hoo. I guess he accidentally had his finger on the trigger. Cops should absolutely be held to a higher standard on stuff like this. It was the changing story, the argument with partner as to who would call it in, the call to his union before medics, and his refusal to provide 1st aid that buried him. Pulling the trigger was just the 1st of his many fuck ups. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:11:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What the fuck? What did he do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Liang's partner fired The former partner of ex-NYPD Officer Peter Liang was fired by the department Friday, one day after his former colleague’s conviction for fatally shooting a Brooklyn man.
Rookie cop Shaun Landau, who testified against Liang at trial, was canned shortly after the family of victim Akai Gurley issued a public demand for his dismissal. Liang was fired from the NYPD immediately after the Thursday night conviction, in keeping with departmental policy. What the fuck? What did he do? He was still on probation and committed numerous policy violations during the incident. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:14:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What the fuck? What did he do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Liang's partner fired The former partner of ex-NYPD Officer Peter Liang was fired by the department Friday, one day after his former colleague’s conviction for fatally shooting a Brooklyn man.
Rookie cop Shaun Landau, who testified against Liang at trial, was canned shortly after the family of victim Akai Gurley issued a public demand for his dismissal. Liang was fired from the NYPD immediately after the Thursday night conviction, in keeping with departmental policy. What the fuck? What did he do? |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:14:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People get killed by lots of people in lots of occupations without getting tossed in the pokey. edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course And some people do get thrown in jail for manslaughter. It's almost like it depends on a factor other than it being an accident. I'm sure a lawyer could tell us what that other factor would be. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 10:04:27 PM EDT
[#25]
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And some people do get thrown in jail for manslaughter. It's almost like it depends on a factor other than it being an accident. I'm sure a lawyer could tell us what that other factor would be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course And some people do get thrown in jail for manslaughter. It's almost like it depends on a factor other than it being an accident. I'm sure a lawyer could tell us what that other factor would be. A cop is given the power to use a gun as a tool of his profession, and should be held to a higher standard. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 10:24:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A cop is given the power to use a gun as a tool of his profession, and should be held to a higher standard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? edit unless it's me. then you deserve the chair, of course And some people do get thrown in jail for manslaughter. It's almost like it depends on a factor other than it being an accident. I'm sure a lawyer could tell us what that other factor would be. A cop is given the power to use a gun as a tool of his profession, and should be held to a higher standard. I don't know about a higher standard, I just want the standard to be the same. If I accidentally shoot someone, I'm going to be charged with a crime, unless there are factors that make someone else culpable. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 10:39:49 PM EDT
[#27]
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Damn skippy |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:17:09 PM EDT
[#28]
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? If the officer was pursuit driving with his knee while drinking coffee and texting, you damn betcha. And running around dark stairwells with your finger on the trigger and your gun pointed wherever the mood strikes is pretty much the same level of douchebaggery. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:23:46 PM EDT
[#29]
I would be more convinced of his wrong doing if he saw the victim and accidentally fired the gun when it was pointed at the victim.
From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:25:39 PM EDT
[#30]
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From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. Even the prosecution admitted it was a ricochet. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:26:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is driving too fast, losing control of a car running someone over different than shooting someone because you stumbled and had your finger on the trigger? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Apples and oranges, no? Gun would not have not off if it was holstered, nor if he just kept his finger off the trigger. If he dropped it and it went off, there is still some culpability unless policy is to do these vertical patrols with weapon in hand. But this whole problem arises because the officer was careless with the handling of his firearm. It's not different. Dead is dead. Same as a sober driver killing someone vs. a driver that has been drinking. Dead is dead, you fuck up and kill someone, you own it. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:30:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would be more convinced of his wrong doing if he saw the victim and accidentally fired the gun when it was pointed at the victim. From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. You own everything that leaves the muzle |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:33:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You own everything that leaves the muzzle Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would be more convinced of his wrong doing if he saw the victim and accidentally fired the gun when it was pointed at the victim. From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. You own everything that leaves the muzzle Yep. Even as a 20 year old rookie I thought it was stupid when the older guys said to have your gun out doing a vertical. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:35:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Incompetent Discharge.
Officer fucknuts gets what he deserves. Gun out at the wrong time, finger on the trigger, fires the gun and kills a guy and worries more about calling his union rep rather than an ambulance. What a cunt. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:47:47 PM EDT
[#35]
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Gun out at the wrong time, finger on the trigger, fires the gun and kills a guy and worries more about calling his union rep rather than an ambulance. What a cunt. I agree with everything else you posted but it turned out at trial that he didn't call his union rep. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 2:37:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Even as a 20 year old rookie I thought it was stupid when the older guys said to have your gun out doing a vertical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would be more convinced of his wrong doing if he saw the victim and accidentally fired the gun when it was pointed at the victim. From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. You own everything that leaves the muzzle Yep. Even as a 20 year old rookie I thought it was stupid when the older guys said to have your gun out doing a vertical. I could see in real crapping places having it in your hand parallel to your leg with the finger off the trigger. I can not see the waving it around like your first hard on with the finger on the trigger. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 2:49:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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I could see in real crapping places having it in your hand parallel to your leg with the finger off the trigger. I can not see the waving it around like your first hard on with the finger on the trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would be more convinced of his wrong doing if he saw the victim and accidentally fired the gun when it was pointed at the victim. From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. You own everything that leaves the muzzle Yep. Even as a 20 year old rookie I thought it was stupid when the older guys said to have your gun out doing a vertical. I could see in real crapping places having it in your hand parallel to your leg with the finger off the trigger. I can not see the waving it around like your first hard on with the finger on the trigger. Yep, sure sounds like a project stairwell. 
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:01:39 PM EDT
[#38]
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Not in CA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He would have been convicted of a fatal crash had he been drinking a big gulp in one hand, texting with the other while involved in a high speed pursuit. That is a more comparable amount of recklessness. Not in CA. Texting while operating a vehicle at normal speeds is completely different than texting during a pursuit and would have a different legal outcome. Keep beating that drum, though. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:03:23 PM EDT
[#39]
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If I accidentally shoot someone, I'm going to be charged with a crime, unless there are factors that make someone else culpable. Maybe after you join the Guardian Angels and get your red beret society will charge you with the responsibility of patrolling the projects. Oh wait, it's like completely different, apples and oranges. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:08:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe after you join the Guardian Angels and get your red beret society will charge you with the responsibility of patrolling the projects. Oh wait, it's like completely different, apples and oranges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If I accidentally shoot someone, I'm going to be charged with a crime, unless there are factors that make someone else culpable. Maybe after you join the Guardian Angels and get your red beret society will charge you with the responsibility of patrolling the projects. Oh wait, it's like completely different, apples and oranges. 
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:19:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? That's a stupid comparison. He wasn't in pursuit of anyone. A better question would be if he ran someone over in his squad car while on the car mounted computer and speeding. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:35:40 PM EDT
[#42]
He thought he was Travis Haley or something.
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:35:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Someone should have asked Lynch why the union didn't have anyone at the trial until it was mentioned in the news.
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:43:50 PM EDT
[#44]
The article says he was convicted of manslaughter, not criminally negligent homicide. Everyone here keeps saying that he is negligent, but I wanted to know more so I googled the New York criminal laws and looked up the codes for both manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide.
Manslaughter is a class C felony and the negligent homicide is class E felony. I assume this means different sentances. In any case, news reports all say "manslaughter" pretty specifically, so I looked at that charge. It says for manslaughter in the second degree, ".... A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when: 1. He recklessly causes the death of another person...." There is also subsections relating to suicide and abortion so I cut those out. The key here is the word "recklessly" versus the other lesser charge which says "negligently". Whereas the law books reads for criminally negligent homicide, "A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person." Now for the key definitions.... the law book says negligent is, "fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation." This is compared to the definition for recklessly, which reads, "when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation." So really if you guys are gonna have this arguement it really has a lot to do with the nature of the charges and whether they are fitting to his crime. Was he reckless or negligent? I'll leave my opinion out, just throwing a little fuel in the fire. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:54:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Bratton, the training, the union, the hate of the evil muscle of white folks, threw both cops under the bus
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Posted: 2/13/2016 5:06:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poor grammar aside, there are reasons to drive faster than usual and reasons to walk around with your finger on the trigger. Your example was a reason to drive fast; doing so was justifiable, even knowing that accidents happen. This case was not a reason to walk around with an unholstered weapon; doing so was not justifiable, and the officer has liability for the accident. Maybe the officer can shuffle some of the liability off on his trainers, and that may be fair. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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qs!" There's a difference between pursing a suspect and being on patrol. If Officer Donuts is racing to Krispy Kreme because the "hot fresh!" light just went on, that would be negligence. If an officer was in an active gun fight and someone wandered into the line of fire, that would be an accident. An accident just means an unintended event, whether from negligence, mechanical failure or an Act of God. I mentioned before that I once rear ended someone in traffic because I was looking at the ass of some girl on the sidewalk. That was a traffic accident, not a traffic negligence. I know some firearms trainers have been pushing this odd use of accident v. negligence, didn't mean to sound like I was picking on you, this is a common thing here Poor grammar aside, there are reasons to drive faster than usual and reasons to walk around with your finger on the trigger. Your example was a reason to drive fast; doing so was justifiable, even knowing that accidents happen. This case was not a reason to walk around with an unholstered weapon; doing so was not justifiable, and the officer has liability for the accident. Maybe the officer can shuffle some of the liability off on his trainers, and that may be fair. No... not really. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 5:24:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? All fine and well, as long as societies expectation of the police are lowered equally. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 5:26:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even the prosecution admitted it was a ricochet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From what I understand he ND'd into a wall, and the bullet ricocheted into the victim who was out of sight, down the stairs. Even the prosecution admitted it was a ricochet. No shit??? Wow. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 5:27:32 PM EDT
[#49]
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All fine and well, as long as societies expectation of the police are lowered equally. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would the people who think this officer deserved to be convicted have the same reaction if he had killed someone when his police car went out of control chasing someone who was speeding? Should society accept the deaths of innocent citizens, at the hands of police, as simply the cost of an orderly society? That doesn't seem right. Shouldn't we as a society hold these guys accountable is some fashion when mistakes are made that kill people? All fine and well, as long as societies expectation of the police are lowered equally. So we can't have an orderly society unless the police are allowed to kill people accidentally with impunity? We have a different idea of what constitutes "orderly".
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Posted: 2/13/2016 7:04:33 PM EDT
[#50]
If the deceased was a sleeping 7 year old, the officer would be free in Detroit!
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