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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:30:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Why is he running again? He is addicted to power like it's crack and I really don't see him or Graham contributing anything new.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:31:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Another example for the need of term limits.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:33:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Torture worked on him.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#4]
There is no need for torture when you carpet bomb and scorch the earth of your enemies. Cruz 2016.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:53:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:53:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arizona, you know what needs to be done. No, I really don't think they do... 
How the fuck is he still employed is beyond comprehension |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:54:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arizona, you know what needs to be done. Tell him through the ballot box that he needs to retire. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:55:49 AM EDT
[#8]
anyone else feel like waterboarding the OP after reading some of his threads? I had it done to me it's really not that bad if you develop the mind set
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:57:12 AM EDT
[#9]
What worked on McCain?
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:57:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Arizona, it's time to primary this old RINO.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:59:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
anyone else feel like waterboarding the OP after reading some of his threads? I had it done to me it's really not that bad if you develop the mind set Absolutely. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:00:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Waterboarding works
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:00:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you gotta be kidding. McCain was brutally tortured for 5 years. waterboarding is a cakewalk next to the treatment he received. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess the North Viets got him to sing with a lot less, that makes him an expert. you gotta be kidding. McCain was brutally tortured for 5 years. waterboarding is a cakewalk next to the treatment he received. This , both McCain and Stockdale were brutally tortured to the point of near death numerous times. I have nothing but respect for his time in service and captivity during that service . He has become the worst type of pandering politician though and a opportunist. Time for you to retire senator |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:05:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. This is always how I saw it working. Start with small easily verified pieces of information and work your way up. Severely punish lies or refusals to answer, give rewards for cooperation. Use a combination of techniques and understand that it isn't going to happen overnight. Waterboarding is just one tool in the toolbox. McCain of all people should know what kind of evil creatures we are facing. Guys like KSM were NEVER going to switch sides because we treated them nicely. They didn't start torturing and beheading their victims because of waterboarding and they haven't stopped since we did. They are pure evil. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:05:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, so Gabby Giffords and John McCain endured life changing events that compromised their intelligence. I need to remember this when listening to their political suggestions. I sympathize with what they went through, nonetheless. Gabby Giffords experience has absolutely nothing to do with being tortured as a POW. Fuck that analogy . I respect what McCain did and endured during Vietnam, he is a hero and served honorably. I have some sympathy and no respect for Giffords being in the wrong place at the wrong time. her voting record in congress shows she did no service for Americans . |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:07:13 PM EDT
[#16]
From what I've read and have been told....
The only time torture doesn't work... is when the person really didn't know anything. Other than that, it always works. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:07:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. What happens when you start interrogating someone who truly doesn't know anything? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:09:47 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:13:58 PM EDT
[#19]
McCain is probably correct in his assessment, or at least it jibes with what I've read from other sources.
Also probably why we use it so rarely already anyway. However, it is a tool to keep handy in the tool box, I suppose. (This isn't an endorsement of the Senator in any way at all, except to give credit where it is fairly due.) |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:14:55 PM EDT
[#20]
I never knew GD had so many experts on intelligence gathering, and interrogation techniques.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:17:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cruz sycophants will be along shortly to subscribe to McStain. That's Real Retarded.jpg |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:21:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: McCain might not be a good Senator, but in this instance IMO he is right. We are supposed to be "the good guys" and waterboarding is wrong. On occasion maybe it might post some results but the propaganda value for our enemies will create new generations of jihadi warriors to fight us, and round and round we go. Think of the moderate muslims at risk of radicalization. We can give them aid and stability and democracy until the cows come home, but they will never forget, or forgive "those Kafir waterboarded my dad" SO you are saying that if we only ask pretty please when we are interrogating jihadis, that this war will die out with the current generation, because not waterboarding them will prevent new ones from radicalizing? As a percentage of the current jihadi class, how many are now radical terrorists because we a.) waterboarded a family member or b:) they read about it in Al-Jazeera? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:25:13 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm not a fan of Trump but it was hilarious when he basically said we were going to go medieval on their ass (ISIS) during the debate. Looks like Donald the Barbarian annihilates political correctness once again.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:26:09 PM EDT
[#24]
We could have a national "Adopt a rescue dog" month and idiots will claim that it contributes to radicalization of already western hating muslims and aids in ISIS recruitment.
Instead of worrying if something aids ISIS recruitment, why don't we kill most of them? Of course we can't. It would offend the muslim in the White House. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:27:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what exactly did the NVA do to get him to talk so freely? "Hey John want another piece of cake with ice cream?" |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:27:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On occasion maybe it might post some results but the propaganda value for our enemies will create new generations of jihadi warriors to fight us, and round and round we go. Think of the moderate muslims at risk of radicalization. We can give them aid and stability and democracy until the cows come home, but they will never forget, or forgive "those Kafir waterboarded my dad" I don't agree with this part. It doesn't matter whether we embrace or eliminate such things as waterboarding. The jihad has plenty who are willing to lie, exaggerate, and lay blame on it's behalf in order to draw in recruits. It's not much different than the way other cults gain followers from the disaffected. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:28:49 PM EDT
[#27]
We've passed the point where the harm McCain's doing supercedes any service to his country.
Fuck him. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:30:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Hey John want another piece of cake with ice cream?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what exactly did the NVA do to get him to talk so freely? "Hey John want another piece of cake with ice cream?" You are forgetting the part before the cake and ice cream where they broke an ankle |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:30:57 PM EDT
[#29]
McCain isn't exactly wrong on this one. Physical coercion isn't a particularly reliable means of extracting actionable intelligence.
But hey, when Trump says it it makes him sound like a hardcore badass, and as long as he says stuff, the Trump-bots will cheer. Really, when he stands on a stage and says he'll bring back waterboarding and a lot worse, it might make your jimmies warm and stir to attention but it just goes to show he's a fucking buffoon who is simply smart enough to pander to the easily-rustled-jimmies crowd. Thinking Cruz is a pussy for not going that route is equally stupid. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:31:56 PM EDT
[#30]
It seemed to work in SERE School.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:32:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF? He shoulda just stuck with "Torture is not what Americans do." He has no idea how to collect and verify intel. Also, befriending and bribing are already tools of the trade. Isn't he on the Senate Intelligence Committee?  Pretending to be a SME in fields you have very little experience in is the hallmark of a modern American politician. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:33:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arizona, you know what needs to be done. We try, but we only get a shot every 6 years. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:36:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is always how I saw it working. Start with small easily verified pieces of information and work your way up. Severely punish lies or refusals to answer, give rewards for cooperation. Use a combination of techniques and understand that it isn't going to happen overnight. Waterboarding is just one tool in the toolbox. McCain of all people should know what kind of evil creatures we are facing. Guys like KSM were NEVER going to switch sides because we treated them nicely. They didn't start torturing and beheading their victims because of waterboarding and they haven't stopped since we did. They are pure evil. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. This is always how I saw it working. Start with small easily verified pieces of information and work your way up. Severely punish lies or refusals to answer, give rewards for cooperation. Use a combination of techniques and understand that it isn't going to happen overnight. Waterboarding is just one tool in the toolbox. McCain of all people should know what kind of evil creatures we are facing. Guys like KSM were NEVER going to switch sides because we treated them nicely. They didn't start torturing and beheading their victims because of waterboarding and they haven't stopped since we did. They are pure evil. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile McCain broke during interrogation. This is widely known. I have no idea why he is going on about torture not working, it absolutely does. It doesn't work well if you fuck it up and an unskilled interrogator performs it, but done right, its just questioning with some physical duress/pain compliance added in. Of course it works. Its unethical as fuck, which is why it should be black level intelligence operations doing it and not talked about. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:40:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens when you start interrogating someone who truly doesn't know anything? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. What happens when you start interrogating someone who truly doesn't know anything? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Then you realize pretty quickly that the person doesn't know anything and you stop. But most people that are waterboarded already have numerous other pieces of evidence already damning them. If you know the guy is crooked because our SOF literally picked his ass up in a house full of bomb making material, and that his name checks out with being a bomb maker, chances are he will know the names of other people he is working with, locations, bank accounts, cell phone numbers, TTPs, etc. At that point, its just a matter of getting him to talk, and finding out how much he said is bullshit, and how much is true. Truly innocent people are rarely tortured by Americans, we don't need to, we don't have the interrogators enough to even properly question (not torture) all the guilty bodies, let alone find people actually trained in how to conduct "advanced interrogation methods." |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:42:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They tortured the fuck out of him continuously. He eventually answered everything they asked him. He never lost faith though. Think of him what you will now but he served with honor as a Naval aviator. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what exactly did the NVA do to get him to talk so freely? They tortured the fuck out of him continuously. He eventually answered everything they asked him. He never lost faith though. Think of him what you will now but he served with honor as a Naval aviator. I get that.. But he said it doesn't work. Seems to contradict his experience. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:42:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
McCain is probably correct in his assessment, or at least it jibes with what I've read from other sources. Also probably why we use it so rarely already anyway. However, it is a tool to keep handy in the tool box, I suppose. (This isn't an endorsement of the Senator in any way at all, except to give credit where it is fairly due.) A couple years back all the media was going on about "Torture doesn't work." That's a load of shit. Done right, it does work. Of course torture works, history has proven that a thousand times over. The reason "they" were saying that it didn't work was because they thought it was the best method to convince everyday Americans to pressure our govt to stop waterboarding people for intel (which was gaining us valuable intel). It was textbook manipulation, like saying concealed handguns don't stop any crime. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:44:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never knew GD had so many experts on intelligence gathering, and interrogation techniques. LOL I was just thinking there are a disturbing number of arfcommers here who know how to torture... 
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:47:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Waterboarding works and it is not considered a true form of torture.
I worked in South America. I can't adequately describe some of the things that I've seen done to other human beings. True torture is having the skin around your fingers cut open then slowly peeled/filleted back over your hands then slowly dunked into a vat of acid. Also, if ISIS wants to act like some medieval savages, then we respond in kind. You string up Christians on crosses? Alright, when we capture you we'll hang you upside down with your digits removed. Brutal force is the only thing these people understand. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:48:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL I was just thinking there are a disturbing number of arfcommers here who know how to torture... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I never knew GD had so many experts on intelligence gathering, and interrogation techniques. LOL I was just thinking there are a disturbing number of arfcommers here who know how to torture... Joking aside, it isn't exactly rocket surgery. And there's literal millennia of research available on the subject.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:49:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah but after you go investigate it and find no evidence you come back to the gentleman and explain that he was not being truthful and didn't appreciate having your time wasted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up Yeah but after you go investigate it and find no evidence you come back to the gentleman and explain that he was not being truthful and didn't appreciate having your time wasted. This. As a couple of posts have eluded to, the purpose of waterboarding isn't to obtain answers/info, it's simply to break the detainee's will so he will start answering questions of his own volition. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:52:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens when you start interrogating someone who truly doesn't know anything? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could see water boarding giving false positives. If I drag some random guy off the street and start water boarding himAnd demand to know about his plot to kill Obama he'll eventually make something up That's not how it works You don't waterboard to get a confession, you waterboard to motivate someone to talk. While they talk, you listen, corroborate what they say with things you already know. When you catch them lying, you waterboard them more. Eventually they will realize you know they are lying, so they will stop, or at least lie better, to prevent more waterboarding. And the game goes on and on. Eventually they will give up truly sensitive information and once the dam breaks you don't even need to waterboard, they will usually give up info freely at that point. What happens when you start interrogating someone who truly doesn't know anything? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Apologize?
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:53:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for your service John. Now kindly STFU and go away. This. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:53:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretending to be a SME in fields you have very little experience in is the hallmark of a modern American politician. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
WTF? He shoulda just stuck with "Torture is not what Americans do." He has no idea how to collect and verify intel. Also, befriending and bribing are already tools of the trade. Isn't he on the Senate Intelligence Committee? Pretending to be a SME in fields you have very little experience in is the hallmark of a modern American politician. Not a McCain supporter here , but he is factually closer to an SME in this subject than 99% of the people here posting about what they think they know about torture and interrogation. Having said that because of his first hand experience as the one being tortured he has a very subjective point of view. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:54:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a McCain supporter here , but he is factually closer to an SME in this subject than 99% of the people here posting about what they think they know about torture and interrogation. Having said that because of his first hand experience as the one being tortured he has a very subjective point of view. That's precisely why his opinions on the matter shouldn't be taken very seriously. Subjective points-of-view make for shitty policy. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 12:59:38 PM EDT
[#45]
I imagine that if someone had 48 hours alone with Johnny that he could make Johnny tell what his banks account numbers are his passwords, the names of all the women he has cheated with, the bribes he had taken and what he promised in return.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 1:02:05 PM EDT
[#46]
It is literally like the easiest thing in the world to prove.
He should allow himself to water boarded until get starts telling all his secrets. Besides, if it doesn't work, is it even torture? Cause torture does work. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 1:07:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not a fan of Trump but it was hilarious when he basically said we were going to go medieval on their ass (ISIS) during the debate. Looks like Donald the Barbarian annihilates political correctness once again. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=85307 |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 1:11:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, we could use whatever the VC did to him, as it seemed to have worked.  |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 1:11:14 PM EDT
[#49]
FJM
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Posted: 2/10/2016 1:12:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
McCain might not be a good Senator, but in this instance IMO he is right. We are supposed to be "the good guys" and waterboarding is wrong. On occasion maybe it might post some results but the propaganda value for our enemies will create new generations of jihadi warriors to fight us, and round and round we go. Think of the moderate muslims at risk of radicalization. We can give them aid and stability and democracy until the cows come home, but they will never forget, or forgive "those Kafir waterboarded my dad" I don't think you have a clear understanding of the issue. |
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