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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:57:46 PM EDT
[#1]
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Um, ok. So for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right and that God is the creator. Why can't science explain that? Wouldn't the limiting factor be human intelligence and not science itself? Just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How can't you possible understand that "science" will never "prove" your theory? Not next year, not a million years from now. Creation has nothing to do with science. Science only works from the point immediately after the Creation, whatever your "creation" means to you. You do believe in "creation", you simply refuse to admit it.  Um, ok. So for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right and that God is the creator. Why can't science explain that? Wouldn't the limiting factor be human intelligence and not science itself? Just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation for it. Exactly what the Canadian said. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:59:58 PM EDT
[#2]
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Um, ok. So for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right and that God is the creator. Why can't science explain that? Wouldn't the limiting factor be human intelligence and not science itself? Just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How can't you possible understand that "science" will never "prove" your theory? Not next year, not a million years from now. Creation has nothing to do with science. Science only works from the point immediately after the Creation, whatever your "creation" means to you. You do believe in "creation", you simply refuse to admit it. Um, ok. So for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right and that God is the creator. Why can't science explain that? Wouldn't the limiting factor be human intelligence and not science itself? Just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation for it. Because science deals only with natural phenomenon. It's not equipped to deal with supernatural things which can rewrite the laws of physics at will. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:02:14 PM EDT
[#3]
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There is no beginning, time is just a dimension bounded by singularity from our reference point. Or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In the beginning there was nothing and it exploded into something. There is no beginning, time is just a dimension bounded by singularity from our reference point. Or something. OK, but what is a singularity? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:04:20 PM EDT
[#4]
I have seen it. I've spent many hours watching similar documentaries, videos and tv shows about it and it's fascinating. But it's all a guess, same as Einstein's guesses. Truth is, they assume that black holes are collapsed stars because they assume if a star were to collapse that is how it would act. But we've never seen a star collapse, we have seen supernovas, where a star explodes.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:11:54 PM EDT
[#5]
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And to the Atheists out there who will ask the inevitable question, namely, "Well 80, where did your God come from"? I have no answer to that. It is beyond my comprehension. Hence, Faith. The beginning of it all is also beyond your comprehension, however you won't admit THAT.  The Big Bang. That's were everything came from. Here is my theory. My theory for how the universe works and how it "started" is the Big Bang and black holes. Big Bang goes boom. All matter and energy scattered all over. Collecting creating planets, stars etc. Stars die emplode and become black holes. The massive gravitational pull of the black holes start to eat all matter and energy. Once there is enough black holes they start to consume everything until eventually there is just one black hole. At the moment the last atom combines with the singular black hole it reaches critical mass and explodes restarting the universe. It is infinite. This theory is not one based on any faith. You don't need faith to think it possible. Faith is when you believe something to be true and no matter what it is true to you. But with a theory it can be wrong and you know it can be wrong and it's okay if it is. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:13:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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I have seen it. I've spent many hours watching similar documentaries, videos and tv shows about it and it's fascinating. But it's all a guess, same as Einstein's guesses. Truth is, they assume that black holes are collapsed stars because they assume if a star were to collapse that is how it would act. But we've never seen a star collapse, we have seen supernovas, where a star explodes. The video I posted doesn't care about black holes being collapsed stars. Edit: Actually, I'm rewatching it and I don't think it makes much reference to the origin of black holes. It's concerned solely with misconceptions about black holes, like that light can't escape from them because light doesn't have enough escape velocity. Edit 2: This misconception talk starts around 6:10. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:14:03 PM EDT
[#7]
God created it.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:18:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Nobody knows, chances are nobody will ever know, and anybody who claims they know is a liar. But I'm quite confident God had nothing to do with it
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:23:37 PM EDT
[#9]
God.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:25:06 PM EDT
[#10]
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Haven't claimed to know the origin. Have you? If not, why are you dismissing my theory? hmmmmm......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can only laugh at the "scientific" "atheists". You are so quick to mock a Creator, however you can NEVER come up with anything new. Your arguments, even though you adhere to them as a religion, are so baseless.
It's always fun, however, to see your heads spin when you attempt to explain the "beginning". The one thing you can always be sure of is that the Christians know all about science before they critique it. Right? Haven't claimed to know the origin. Have you? If not, why are you dismissing my theory? hmmmmm......... By believing in God you are claiming to know how everything started. Unless you don't truly believe? God started it. That's what you believe it's not a matter of how he did it to you people. You know he did it because if you don't accept it as fact then you can't be a true believer. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:48:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Okay 80FL, I'm going to take one good stab at this. I've looked at your arguments and think I understand what you are talking about with atheist's "faith." Science has done a pretty good job figuring out what the conditions of the universe right until just after the big bang. We just don't have an explanation for what was before that, and you say it was god.
Atheist history of the universe: ???->big bang->13.73by->us Your history of the universe: God->big bang->13.73by->us You're saying that us believing that there is an explanation for the big bang (see ??? above) but not knowing what it is requires faith. That's not true because the existence of a big bang itself is evidence that there was a reason for it. If there is evidence for something it requires no faith. One possible cause for the big bang is god. However, if god did it there was a process through which he did. That would look something like this: God->???->big bang->13.82by->us Our goal is to drill back as far as we possibly can until we find out what the explanation for the big bang was. If the explanation for the big bang has a self evident precursor we're going to try to figure out what that was. Then we're going to keep going until we can't get any more evidence or we figure out everything. If by some miracle we find evidence that god touched off the big bang great, but we're not going to take his existence on faith. Then we're going to get to work on explaining how he ticks with evidence. ETA: I'll just add that the types of arguments you're making are counter productive because you don't know where the possible gatherable evidence ends and the unknowableness of god begins. Even if you believe god created the universe, aren't you curious to know if you can have a better understanding of how he did it? If we all just took it on faith and lost curiosity about how the universe works we would still think the sun revolves around the earth. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:49:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Big bada BOOM!!!!!!
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:50:35 PM EDT
[#13]
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OK, but what is a singularity? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In the beginning there was nothing and it exploded into something. There is no beginning, time is just a dimension bounded by singularity from our reference point. Or something. OK, but what is a singularity? When the Big bang occurred, the universe was in a state that could not transfer any information. An event horizon. This could be the first expanding universe ever or a single bubble in an infinite, eternal froth or a unique event in an infinite sea of other unique events and there might be no way for anything or anyone inside to ever tell the difference. Time as we understand it may only exist as a dimension by which we can measure the spacetime of this universe. It may not exist as we understand it at all. If we were created purposefully, we were purposely created ignorant. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:54:41 PM EDT
[#14]
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Basically this thread got side tracked so I'm starting this one. No one has the answers, as of right now no one can prove what happened but I'm sure that most of us believe something in regards to the start, so discuss away. I can honestly say I have no idea how all of this started, but I enjoy reading the theories regarding it. Well shit...thanks for clearing that up! |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:55:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not claiming to have a Scientific theory Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am pretty comfortable with the idea that everything in our universe was at one time compressed into something maybe the size of a golf ball or even a pinhead as some theorize. It takes some deep thinking to imagine that kind of compactness where there is zero space between atom particles, if they are even atoms at that state. But, where I get hung up is where did the golf ball come from to begin with? I have seen many many articles on the big bang, but very few on the singularity's origin. So your theory of a golf ball is more relevant than my theory of intelligent design? Gotcha. Thanks for your input.  I'm not claiming to have a Scientific theory  |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:00:27 PM EDT
[#16]
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You see fatalerror, you DO have faith in something. You claim that you don't, but you MUST have faith. Any thinking person who thinks deeper than the latest reality show has faith in something. Something........ Atheists are so quick to say, "I don't have faith in anything. It just happened and we don't know how". Well..... Sorry Atheists, THAT is faith in something, perhaps unseen which is the definition of faith, but you still have faith. There is so much crap spouted from the Christian perspective and the Atheist perspective. The ONE SINGLE question that seems never to be asked by either side is the one I've been asking all along: What was the beginning point? I've had my fill of Wikipedia stuff and energy and black holes. Why won't even one of you Atheists simply say......... "yeah, we have no clue. Could be a Creator for all I know" Just can't do it. You are all so wound up with your own "intelligence" that you simply refuse to admit that there could indeed be intelligent design. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one knows. Some people pretend that they know. Some people have some guesses. None have evidence. You are exactly right. I have faith in magical fairy dust creator. Atheists have faith in magic fairy dust that exploded into a black hole and stuff. No, we don't. You just made this up, because as I stated in my post (which for some reason you couldn't read and comprehend) that we do not know what, if anything, caused the universe. Someone saying "I don't know how something started" does not, in any way, imply "magic fairy dust caused it". Go back to 1st grade and relearn the english language. That's really the only way you can resolve your confusions. As for faith? I am an atheist and I have no faith in anything. I find faith a childish and useless concept and don't use it for anything in my life. You see fatalerror, you DO have faith in something. You claim that you don't, but you MUST have faith. Any thinking person who thinks deeper than the latest reality show has faith in something. Something........ Atheists are so quick to say, "I don't have faith in anything. It just happened and we don't know how". Well..... Sorry Atheists, THAT is faith in something, perhaps unseen which is the definition of faith, but you still have faith. There is so much crap spouted from the Christian perspective and the Atheist perspective. The ONE SINGLE question that seems never to be asked by either side is the one I've been asking all along: What was the beginning point? I've had my fill of Wikipedia stuff and energy and black holes. Why won't even one of you Atheists simply say......... "yeah, we have no clue. Could be a Creator for all I know" Just can't do it. You are all so wound up with your own "intelligence" that you simply refuse to admit that there could indeed be intelligent design. Could be a Creator, for all I know. Could be a bunch of leprechauns that did it, for all I know. But I will require evidence for the leprechaun story. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:01:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you have a theory, but not a scientific theory. http://thechristiannerd.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/dont-feed-the-trolls.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am pretty comfortable with the idea that everything in our universe was at one time compressed into something maybe the size of a golf ball or even a pinhead as some theorize. It takes some deep thinking to imagine that kind of compactness where there is zero space between atom particles, if they are even atoms at that state. But, where I get hung up is where did the golf ball come from to begin with? I have seen many many articles on the big bang, but very few on the singularity's origin. So your theory of a golf ball is more relevant than my theory of intelligent design? Gotcha. Thanks for your input. I'm not claiming to have a Scientific theory http://thechristiannerd.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/dont-feed-the-trolls.jpg |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:02:22 PM EDT
[#18]
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You are exactly right. I have faith in a Creator. Atheists have faith in magic fairy dust that exploded into a black hole and stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one knows. Some people pretend that they know. Some people have some guesses. None have evidence. You are exactly right. I have faith in a Creator. Atheists have faith in magic fairy dust that exploded into a black hole and stuff. Yes, you have faith that there is one dude out there with a giant bucket of magic fairy dust. That's better. It explains the magic fairy dust. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:11:04 PM EDT
[#19]
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Sorry, but this is theoretical science being pushed as factual science, scientists are wrong a lot. And that's a fact Because science has specific methods of determining what is correct. That is, as opposed to religion which, when challenged, just screams "God said it!" |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:11:46 PM EDT
[#20]
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Because science deals only with natural phenomenon. It's not equipped to deal with supernatural things which can rewrite the laws of physics at will. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How can't you possible understand that "science" will never "prove" your theory? Not next year, not a million years from now. Creation has nothing to do with science. Science only works from the point immediately after the Creation, whatever your "creation" means to you. You do believe in "creation", you simply refuse to admit it. Um, ok. So for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right and that God is the creator. Why can't science explain that? Wouldn't the limiting factor be human intelligence and not science itself? Just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation for it. Because science deals only with natural phenomenon. It's not equipped to deal with supernatural things which can rewrite the laws of physics at will. Again, the limitation is us, not science. Most of us "atheists" in this thread have all said we don't know what caused the Big Bang. It could be God or a god, or an infinite number of other possibilities. I just can't accept "God" as described by any religious texts, most of which were written in the beginning of the Iron Age. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:13:26 PM EDT
[#21]
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I have seen it. I've spent many hours watching similar documentaries, videos and tv shows about it and it's fascinating. But it's all a guess, same as Einstein's guesses. Truth is, they assume that black holes are collapsed stars because they assume if a star were to collapse that is how it would act. But we've never seen a star collapse, we have seen supernovas, where a star explodes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have seen it. I've spent many hours watching similar documentaries, videos and tv shows about it and it's fascinating. But it's all a guess, same as Einstein's guesses. Truth is, they assume that black holes are collapsed stars because they assume if a star were to collapse that is how it would act. But we've never seen a star collapse, we have seen supernovas, where a star explodes. Originally posted by Albert Einstein:
"The chief attraction of the theory lies in its logical completeness. If a single one of the conclusions drawn from it proves wrong, it must be given up; to modify it without destroying the whole structure seems to be impossible." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a6175/5-recent-tests-that-prove-einstein-right/ The five things proven right recently as listed in PM Time Dilation Spin Precession Space-Time Curvature Time Dilation in Lasers Large-Scale Relativity ----------------------------------- Those were more than guesses. He was just brilliant. He didn't guess, he knew. There is no way to guess that stuff. Guessing something that no one else had ever even thought of and getting it all right would be actually more impressive than figuring it all out. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:13:28 PM EDT
[#22]
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Haven't claimed to know the origin. Have you? If not, why are you dismissing my theory? hmmmmm......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can only laugh at the "scientific" "atheists". You are so quick to mock a Creator, however you can NEVER come up with anything new. Your arguments, even though you adhere to them as a religion, are so baseless.
It's always fun, however, to see your heads spin when you attempt to explain the "beginning". The one thing you can always be sure of is that the Christians know all about science before they critique it. Right? Haven't claimed to know the origin. Have you? If not, why are you dismissing my theory? hmmmmm......... The point is that they invariably demonstrate that they have no real knowledge of the science at all. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:27:35 PM EDT
[#23]
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As others have said, can you post one shred of verifiable scientific or mathematical evidence to the existence of God? Is there any scientific evidence of the existence of God besides what is written in religious books? Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:32:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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Firstly, I'm a christian, and a highly progressive one. I believe science and God go hand in hand. when i first started that video was like
and then i was like 
Thank you for posting that. You're welcome and I'm glad you enjoyed it
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:34:09 PM EDT
[#25]
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Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As others have said, can you post one shred of verifiable scientific or mathematical evidence to the existence of God? Is there any scientific evidence of the existence of God besides what is written in religious books? Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. It is always easy when you just make shit up as you go along. Tell us all about your reproducible results. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:52:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. Bull fucking shit. Saying "I don't have enough data to answer that question" is a valid answer. It is not a theory. It does not turn into "magically from nothing". If you can't understand that "I don't know" does not equal "magically", then I'm sorry, you need some remedial schooling. Think of it this way: I don't know what happened to my leather gloves that I used to have. At some point between 2 years ago, and now, they are just gone. Maybe I lost them out somewhere. Maybe they got thrown away. Maybe they accidentally got donated to a clothing drop. Maybe my father has them. Maybe someone broke into my house and stole them. Maybe they are hidden in some box here. Honestly, I really have no clue which, if any of these, are true. That does not mean that because I don't know my theory must be "my gloves magically disappeared for no reason". That just doesn't make sense. Similarly, when an atheist says "I don't know how the universe got here, but apparently it did", they are not saying, in any way "it magically came from nothing". They are literally not making any assumptions about how it could, or could not have gotten here. Not to mention, how do theists answer these questions: 1) What initiated god? 2) Where did the energy for god come from? 3) What was there before god? 4) How can god create itself from nothing? They say: 1) Nothing created god, I base this on no evidence and am just making this unsupported assertion. For all I know god could have been created, but I will pretend that he can't...because, feelings. 2) He doesn't need energy, because, its too complicated for us to understand. 3) See #1. 4) Because god is special and magic and can create himself from nothing, and I know he did this because I made the unsupported assertions in #1 and #3. These unsupported assertions prove that I am right about #4. How convincing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As others have said, can you post one shred of verifiable scientific or mathematical evidence to the existence of God? Is there any scientific evidence of the existence of God besides what is written in religious books? Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. Bull fucking shit. Saying "I don't have enough data to answer that question" is a valid answer. It is not a theory. It does not turn into "magically from nothing". If you can't understand that "I don't know" does not equal "magically", then I'm sorry, you need some remedial schooling. Think of it this way: I don't know what happened to my leather gloves that I used to have. At some point between 2 years ago, and now, they are just gone. Maybe I lost them out somewhere. Maybe they got thrown away. Maybe they accidentally got donated to a clothing drop. Maybe my father has them. Maybe someone broke into my house and stole them. Maybe they are hidden in some box here. Honestly, I really have no clue which, if any of these, are true. That does not mean that because I don't know my theory must be "my gloves magically disappeared for no reason". That just doesn't make sense. Similarly, when an atheist says "I don't know how the universe got here, but apparently it did", they are not saying, in any way "it magically came from nothing". They are literally not making any assumptions about how it could, or could not have gotten here. Not to mention, how do theists answer these questions: 1) What initiated god? 2) Where did the energy for god come from? 3) What was there before god? 4) How can god create itself from nothing? They say: 1) Nothing created god, I base this on no evidence and am just making this unsupported assertion. For all I know god could have been created, but I will pretend that he can't...because, feelings. 2) He doesn't need energy, because, its too complicated for us to understand. 3) See #1. 4) Because god is special and magic and can create himself from nothing, and I know he did this because I made the unsupported assertions in #1 and #3. These unsupported assertions prove that I am right about #4. How convincing. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 11:02:03 PM EDT
[#27]
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Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? We don't know, but it is possible it happens all the time and may not be unusual at all 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? The energy in the universe is a net zero. That is one of the reasons it expanded exponentially and was able to get old. 3. What was there before the Big Bang? Nothing. 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Short answer is gravity is negative energy and that makes the energy balance in the universe zero Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As others have said, can you post one shred of verifiable scientific or mathematical evidence to the existence of God? Is there any scientific evidence of the existence of God besides what is written in religious books? Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? We don't know, but it is possible it happens all the time and may not be unusual at all 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? The energy in the universe is a net zero. That is one of the reasons it expanded exponentially and was able to get old. 3. What was there before the Big Bang? Nothing. 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Short answer is gravity is negative energy and that makes the energy balance in the universe zero Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2011/07/how-the-universe-appeared-from-nothing.html There are plenty of other links in this thread. I know you don't believe this stuff, but no one is lying to you. Here is the deal in the best way I can explain it. Relativity. Every single test of Relativity has proven it to be correct. All of them. This is for the big stuff like people and planets. It is basically about gravity. Quantum. Every single test of Quantum physics has proven to be correct. All of them. This is for the tiny stuff like atoms. It is basically about electromagnetism and nuclear physics. The problem lies in that the two theories use completely different formulations to describe the universe and they don't agree. We may not be able to solve the questions of the origin of the Universe by unifying the two theories, but we will be a lot closer. Scientist are working on this every day. AND we keep discovering new things. If you don't read anything else I post, read this link. http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/04/relativity-quantum-mechanics-universe-physicists |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 11:18:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As others have said, can you post one shred of verifiable scientific or mathematical evidence to the existence of God? Is there any scientific evidence of the existence of God besides what is written in religious books? Talking about "one shred of evidence" the problem the secularist have is that they can't answer these basic questions: 1. What initiated the Big Bang? 2. Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? 3. What was there before the Big Bang? 4. How can something can create itself out of nothing? Until these questions are answered with real facts instead of speculation then all the secularists have is a theory that the universe magically created itself out of nothing. We are good at explaining God's existing universe. Year after year we learn more. However, we have no idea how the universe came into existence. I suspect we will die out as a species before that question is answered. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth. When I say that I am saying that this universe is a lot more than we can ever know. I am saying that we did not magically create ourselves out of nothing. I am saying that there is a larger power than we can imagine. You talk about facts but until you can show me the real verifiable facts of how this universe created itself then I will believe in God. Until then you have nothing but a theory of magic. Praise Krishna Allah Geographic/timeperiod-specific God that looks like me! Quoted:
Not to mention, how do theists answer these questions: 1) What initiated god? 2) Where did the energy for god come from? 3) What was there before god? 4) How can god create itself from nothing? They say: 1) Nothing created god, I base this on no evidence and am just making this unsupported assertion. For all I know god could have been created, but I will pretend that he can't...because, feelings. 2) He doesn't need energy, because, its too complicated for us to understand. 3) See #1. 4) Because god is special and magic and can create himself from nothing, and I know he did this because I made the unsupported assertions in #1 and #3. These unsupported assertions prove that I am right about #4. How convincing.
Thank you. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 11:31:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Haven't read the whole thread, but when I was younger I actually came up with a (stupidly simplified) version of the cyclic model of the Big Bang theory before I knew it was an actual theory
 So for me, that has continued to make the most sense. But I'm dumb, so... who knows. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 2:17:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Just what the fuck was God doing before he decided to create the universe? I sure hope it was important... And why did he only create one planet with life? Are two life-bearing planets too much to handle?
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Posted: 1/21/2016 3:27:58 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For starters  http://youtu.be/VqULEE7eY8M
There's a significant amount of research in that field if you're interested in looking Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That was beautiful man, hold on while I take another toke. Pfhhhhhfhhhhhfssshhhhhhhfffhhhssshhhh. Oh man, that's better..... Yeah man, right on.
For starters http://youtu.be/VqULEE7eY8M
There's a significant amount of research in that field if you're interested in looking The universe simply makes much more sense as a simulation. Einstein spent half his life trying to prove that it didnt, and he failed. I think its only our intellectual bias that stands in the way of accepting that to be the case. Great video, I watched it once before. Alan Watts has some good stuff, if you can get into his style. His dream theory is poetry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU0PYcCsL6o |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 3:42:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the truth. It's a lot easier to run a simulation than it is to actually create all the mass and space. Big Bang is simply the start button being pushed on the simulation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the truth. It's a lot easier to run a simulation than it is to actually create all the mass and space. Big Bang is simply the start button being pushed on the simulation. Quoted:
It's a simulation And if we apply Occams Razor doesnt it suggest then that the simulation is most likely to exist? In my view its not even a debate. The only explanation that would preclude that would be an all powerful being consciously deciding for that not to be the case. But what would he have to gain by making a physical universe over a simulation? For most intents and purposes the results would be the same. At least from inside the universe. If he is so powerful that the difference between the two methods wouldnt be an issue, that would explain it. But then if he was that powerful why couldnt he eliminate the paradox that are present, ie the observer effect, if this is a physical universe? Either he couldnt which calls into question his ability to manifest a physical universe, or he deliberately chose an inferior model. That doesnt make much sense. And we are right back to Occams Razor. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 3:47:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For starters http://youtu.be/VqULEE7eY8M
There's a significant amount of research in that field if you're interested in looking Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That was beautiful man, hold on while I take another toke. Pfhhhhhfhhhhhfssshhhhhhhfffhhhssshhhh. Oh man, that's better..... Yeah man, right on.
For starters http://youtu.be/VqULEE7eY8M
There's a significant amount of research in that field if you're interested in looking It's a really interesting idea. Fun to think about.
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Posted: 1/21/2016 3:50:19 AM EDT
[#34]
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Wonderful video I saw today on how that's not quite right. PBS SpaceTime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaEBbFbvcYQuote HistoryQuoted:
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The universe has always existed but before the "big bang" it consisted wholly of dark matter. At that time there were no planets, no stars, no variances. Everything was in harmony and everything was uniform everywhere. Then something happened, whether it be God spoke, or imbalance occurred, some event occurred and the dark matter was instantly transformed into matter. Now not all dark matter transformed and most of it remained dark matter. But a lot of it transformed into matter and hence, the birth of the universe everywhere, all at once. No central point but a sudden appearance which burst outward and continues to burst outward. It is possible that the edge of the universe is actually a continued transformation of dark matter. Like lighting a pile of gunpowder in the center, the gunpowder transforms into a gas outwards. So the universe is growing but it's not expanding, it's converting or transforming at its outer edges. It's like a chain reaction. As matter began to collect and form into things it eventually clumped together enough that it formed black holes (black holes are not collapsed stars, they are simply super compressed matter). Black holes are dark matter generators. They suck in matter and put it under so much compressive forces that it converts back to dark matter. Eventually the universe will convert back to dark matter and the cycle will start over. So here's the deal with black holes because everyone doubts me. If a black hole were just a collapsed star it would not suck anything into it because it's would not exert gravity any more than the star it once was. Is our sun sucking the earth into it? No! We are in equalibrium. And if the sun were compressed down to a pin point it would continue to have the same mass and hence same gravitational forces. It would not become a vacuum cleaner and earth would continue to circle it. So the universe always existed just in a different immeasurable state. A reaction occurred causing dark matter to transform into measurable matter. Matter is being transformed back into dark matter. One day the universe will become dark matter again and we'll all be dead. As a star collapses and reduces its radius it's going to take more kinetic energy (to overcome the gravitational energy) in order to elevate an object from its surface into orbit, in other words the escape velocity for an object leaving the surface of the collapsing star will increase. If you start out with a massive enough star the radius decreases as the star collapses while escape velocity increases until it hits the upper speed limit of the universe. The gravity didn't change, you just can't get anything to go faster than light speed and don't have enough escape velocity. Wonderful video I saw today on how that's not quite right. PBS SpaceTime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaEBbFbvcYVery cool. Black holes are incredibly fascinating. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/nasa-s-chandra-finds-supermassive-black-hole-burping-nearby.html |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 5:00:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Until such time the eggheads can develop a working theory of quantum gravity, trying to figure out what happened prior to the Grand Unification Epoch is pretty much speculation.
Creator, no creator, flying spaghetti monster, Cthulu (my personal favorite), none have been ruled out yet. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 5:07:36 AM EDT
[#36]
He has the weirdest boner right there. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 7:40:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until such time the eggheads can develop a working theory of quantum gravity, trying to figure out what happened prior to the Grand Unification Epoch is pretty much speculation. Creator, no creator, flying spaghetti monster, Cthulu (my personal favorite), none have been ruled out yet. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 7:56:27 AM EDT
[#38]
There are things we will never know. That doesn't mean we should ever stop trying to learn the truth. Sometimes that means accepting things that seem impossible. Sometimes it means letting go of old beliefs.
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Posted: 1/21/2016 8:05:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Here's what always makes my head explode. I'll break this down into the easiest steps so you can see I'm not trying to ask a complicated question....
The big bang. It was condensed and then expanded. Where did the space come from that it expanded into?! I don't think the big bang explains anything. It explains how the shit in the universe got scattered about, but it does nothing to even give a hint about where that "space" and energy came from. Put it this way - a boulder being dropped in a pond is the big bang. It sets off all kinds of events. Regardless of the boulder, that pond and everything in it and around it were already there. I really think my slipping point, along with many others, is taking the big bang as the "start" when we should be viewing the big bang as a re-organization. Time is another hindrance to our understanding. We can't let go of the concept of time, so in turn "time" essentially turns out all light in our search. When we forget time, it's easier to understand all the theories out there. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 8:56:02 AM EDT
[#40]
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The Ekpyrotic Model of the Universe proposes that our current universe arose from a collision of two three-dimensional worlds (branes) in a space with an extra (fourth) spatial dimension. http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/~steinh/npr/ 
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Posted: 1/21/2016 9:25:47 AM EDT
[#41]
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I haven't seen that one yet Choking: I'll look at it. I will say, however, that I've spent 40 years looking at the Atheistic viewpoint on the most basic question of mankind, namely: "where did it ALL BEGIN"? And not once have I found anything that explains it. It all comes down to FAITH. My faith vs. YOUR faith. Very circular. How are you today?, I'm good: How 'bout you? I'm good, and You? Yep, good thanks.... and you? Doing fine, and you?....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That was beautiful man, hold on while I take another toke. Pfhhhhhfhhhhhfssshhhhhhhfffhhhssshhhh. Oh man, that's better..... Yeah man, right on.
For starters http://youtu.be/VqULEE7eY8M
There's a significant amount of research in that field if you're interested in looking I haven't seen that one yet Choking: I'll look at it. I will say, however, that I've spent 40 years looking at the Atheistic viewpoint on the most basic question of mankind, namely: "where did it ALL BEGIN"? And not once have I found anything that explains it. It all comes down to FAITH. My faith vs. YOUR faith. Very circular. How are you today?, I'm good: How 'bout you? I'm good, and You? Yep, good thanks.... and you? Doing fine, and you?....... On the off chance you want an anewer it is this. WE DO NOT KNOW. We don't know, and we are satisfied with this until science perhaps provides an answer. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 9:48:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a6175/5-recent-tests-that-prove-einstein-right/ The five things proven right recently as listed in PM Time Dilation Spin Precession Space-Time Curvature Time Dilation in Lasers Large-Scale Relativity ----------------------------------- Those were more than guesses. He was just brilliant. He didn't guess, he knew. There is no way to guess that stuff. Guessing something that no one else had ever even thought of and getting it all right would be actually more impressive than figuring it all out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have seen it. I've spent many hours watching similar documentaries, videos and tv shows about it and it's fascinating. But it's all a guess, same as Einstein's guesses. Truth is, they assume that black holes are collapsed stars because they assume if a star were to collapse that is how it would act. But we've never seen a star collapse, we have seen supernovas, where a star explodes. Originally posted by Albert Einstein:
"The chief attraction of the theory lies in its logical completeness. If a single one of the conclusions drawn from it proves wrong, it must be given up; to modify it without destroying the whole structure seems to be impossible." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a6175/5-recent-tests-that-prove-einstein-right/ The five things proven right recently as listed in PM Time Dilation Spin Precession Space-Time Curvature Time Dilation in Lasers Large-Scale Relativity ----------------------------------- Those were more than guesses. He was just brilliant. He didn't guess, he knew. There is no way to guess that stuff. Guessing something that no one else had ever even thought of and getting it all right would be actually more impressive than figuring it all out. And now we seem to have discovered gravity waves -- or so the rumor claims. If so add it to the list. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 9:57:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's what always makes my head explode. I'll break this down into the easiest steps so you can see I'm not trying to ask a complicated question.... The big bang. It was condensed and then expanded. Where did the space come from that it expanded into?! I don't think the big bang explains anything. It explains how the shit in the universe got scattered about, but it does nothing to even give a hint about where that "space" and energy came from. Put it this way - a boulder being dropped in a pond is the big bang. It sets off all kinds of events. Regardless of the boulder, that pond and everything in it and around it were already there. I really think my slipping point, along with many others, is taking the big bang as the "start" when we should be viewing the big bang as a re-organization. Time is another hindrance to our understanding. We can't let go of the concept of time, so in turn "time" essentially turns out all light in our search. When we forget time, it's easier to understand all the theories out there. There have been many nights when me and my wife sit around the fire talking about such things like if the universe is expanding what is it expanding into, is it infinite? If it isn't what lies beyond? etc etc. There is so much to read and learn, and I'll admit that most is beyond my intelligence, but it still makes me marvel at what there is yet to discover. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 9:58:25 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that matter came from where? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We are simply the result of matter that was expelled through the ass-end of a supermassive black hole. And that matter came from where? #Blackholesmatter |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 9:59:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Perhaps magnets and a treadmill were involved
We're there beans at the beginning? Maybe an exploding Glock prototype set it all off Who knows; science bitches! |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:00:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
God did it! |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:06:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point is that they invariably demonstrate that they have no real knowledge of the science at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can only laugh at the "scientific" "atheists". You are so quick to mock a Creator, however you can NEVER come up with anything new. Your arguments, even though you adhere to them as a religion, are so baseless. It's always fun, however, to see your heads spin when you attempt to explain the "beginning". The one thing you can always be sure of is that the Christians know all about science before they critique it. Right? Haven't claimed to know the origin. Have you? If not, why are you dismissing my theory? hmmmmm......... The point is that they invariably demonstrate that they have no real knowledge of the science at all. Meh, you're painting Christians with too broad a brush. I think you mean "Creationists" when you say "Christians." I'm Christian (Catholic) and I do understand the science, and I believe that the big bang occurred and that God was the cause of it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:22:29 AM EDT
[#48]
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#Blackholesmatter Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We are simply the result of matter that was expelled through the ass-end of a supermassive black hole. And that matter came from where? #Blackholesmatter I think they certainly do. My favorite theory is that they're both the beginning and end of a universe. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:40:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think they certainly do. My favorite theory is that they're both the beginning and end of a universe. That is my personal favorite too 
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:49:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, the limitation is us, not science. Most of us "atheists" in this thread have all said we don't know what caused the Big Bang. It could be God or a god, or an infinite number of other possibilities. I just can't accept "God" as described by any religious texts, most of which were written in the beginning of the Iron Age. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How can't you possible understand that "science" will never "prove" your theory? Not next year, not a million years from now. Creation has nothing to do with science. Science only works from the point immediately after the Creation, whatever your "creation" means to you. You do believe in "creation", you simply refuse to admit it. Um, ok. So for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right and that God is the creator. Why can't science explain that? Wouldn't the limiting factor be human intelligence and not science itself? Just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean that there isn't a scientific explanation for it. Because science deals only with natural phenomenon. It's not equipped to deal with supernatural things which can rewrite the laws of physics at will. Again, the limitation is us, not science. Most of us "atheists" in this thread have all said we don't know what caused the Big Bang. It could be God or a god, or an infinite number of other possibilities. I just can't accept "God" as described by any religious texts, most of which were written in the beginning of the Iron Age. No, science has the limitation. Science isn't a magical solver of problems, it's a process. It has its own set of axioms that it relies on. 1)Science deals only with natural causes. If something is supernatural, it's outside the scope of science. 2)Experimentation can replicate events and reveal their cause. 3)The universe is consistent. We assume that gravity works the same on earth as it does in another galaxy. These are the assumptions of science, the axioms on which it is built. They've served us very, very well and I see no reason to start doubting the veracity of these axioms. They do mean, however, that science is not equipped to deal with supernatural entities. |
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