User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 10:59:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it wasn't the murder of millions that sent him to hell, it was suicide?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"First off, I have NEVER sinned." is arrogance in the extreme. Not if the concept of sin is absurd to you in the first place. Is Hitler in heaven? Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God? What if he repented in the bunker while the Russians were at the door? Adolf Hitler committed suicide. A teaching. So it wasn't the murder of millions that sent him to hell, it was suicide? No, the word of God clearly states that and Jesus speaking said that if a person destroyed the temple of the body, then He would destroy that person because of the separation of God. In other words, the final temple which is spirit will be destroyed yet linger in hell fire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 10:59:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is Hitler in heaven? Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God? What if he repented in the bunker while the Russians were at the door? Depends on the which belief is correct. Annihilationism Universal Reconciliation The orthodox Christian view of hell |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:11:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, the word of God clearly states that and Jesus speaking said that if a person destroyed the temple of the body, then He would destroy that person because of the separation of God. In other words, the final temple which is spirit will be destroyed yet linger in hell fire. So if he repented and was shot by a Russian he'd be A-okay, chilling in heaven, but since he killed himself Jesus is going to destroy him and his soul will linger in hell. Got it!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:11:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Tap.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:13:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if he repented and was shot by a Russian he'd be A-okay, chilling in heaven but since he killed himself Jesus is going to destroy him and his soul will linger in hell. Got it! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No, the word of God clearly states that and Jesus speaking said that if a person destroyed the temple of the body, then He would destroy that person because of the separation of God. In other words, the final temple which is spirit will be destroyed yet linger in hell fire. So if he repented and was shot by a Russian he'd be A-okay, chilling in heaven but since he killed himself Jesus is going to destroy him and his soul will linger in hell. Got it! I don't believe that I stated something like that at all. You did. Under the letter of God's law we are all equally as dead. However, by the Spirit of God's law which is Christ, we all live! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:32:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe that I stated something like that at all. You did. Under the letter of God's law we are all equally as dead. However, by the Spirit of God's law which is Christ, we all live! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, the word of God clearly states that and Jesus speaking said that if a person destroyed the temple of the body, then He would destroy that person because of the separation of God. In other words, the final temple which is spirit will be destroyed yet linger in hell fire. So if he repented and was shot by a Russian he'd be A-okay, chilling in heaven but since he killed himself Jesus is going to destroy him and his soul will linger in hell. Got it! I don't believe that I stated something like that at all. You did. Under the letter of God's law we are all equally as dead. However, by the Spirit of God's law which is Christ, we all live! At this point I can't tell if you are trolling or you're just that far out there. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, as earlier in this thread when I asked you about evidence you had for your religion and if it would stand up in a court of law you replied yes, because you are a lawyer for Jesus... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:49:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At this point I can't tell if you are trolling or you're just that far out there. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, as earlier in this thread when I asked you about evidence you had for your religion and if it would stand up in a court of law you replied yes, because you are a lawyer for Jesus... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, the word of God clearly states that and Jesus speaking said that if a person destroyed the temple of the body, then He would destroy that person because of the separation of God. In other words, the final temple which is spirit will be destroyed yet linger in hell fire. So if he repented and was shot by a Russian he'd be A-okay, chilling in heaven but since he killed himself Jesus is going to destroy him and his soul will linger in hell. Got it! I don't believe that I stated something like that at all. You did. Under the letter of God's law we are all equally as dead. However, by the Spirit of God's law which is Christ, we all live! At this point I can't tell if you are trolling or you're just that far out there. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, as earlier in this thread when I asked you about evidence you had for your religion and if it would stand up in a court of law you replied yes, because you are a lawyer for Jesus... Actually, the Bible simply states that we who are called by the Name, or Jesus Christ, are ambassadors of His kingdom. The ultimate Judge of the Universe needs no lawyer. I am an advocate of God's law pertaining to the just, and also concerning the unjust. There it is. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:51:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, the Bible simply states that we who are called by the Name, or Jesus Christ, are ambassadors of His kingdom. The ultimate Judge of the Universe needs no lawyer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, the word of God clearly states that and Jesus speaking said that if a person destroyed the temple of the body, then He would destroy that person because of the separation of God. In other words, the final temple which is spirit will be destroyed yet linger in hell fire. So if he repented and was shot by a Russian he'd be A-okay, chilling in heaven but since he killed himself Jesus is going to destroy him and his soul will linger in hell. Got it! I don't believe that I stated something like that at all. You did. Under the letter of God's law we are all equally as dead. However, by the Spirit of God's law which is Christ, we all live! At this point I can't tell if you are trolling or you're just that far out there. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, as earlier in this thread when I asked you about evidence you had for your religion and if it would stand up in a court of law you replied yes, because you are a lawyer for Jesus... Actually, the Bible simply states that we who are called by the Name, or Jesus Christ, are ambassadors of His kingdom. The ultimate Judge of the Universe needs no lawyer. He should probably consider a good defense attorney, going by some of the stuff in the old testament. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:53:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Why should you care Hit?
You claim that you do not believe in Him anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2016 11:53:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He should probably consider a good defense attorney, going by some of the stuff in the old testament. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually, the Bible simply states that we who are called by the Name, or Jesus Christ, are ambassadors of His kingdom. The ultimate Judge of the Universe needs no lawyer. He should probably consider a good defense attorney, going by some of the stuff in the old testament. Why? with unlimited power comes unlimited irresponsibility. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 12:16:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why should you care Hit? You claim that you do not believe in Him anyway. As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about a purely hypothetical being. I don't have to believe in a god to talk about its character as portrayed in a book. It would get old if I had to end every post with "if he exists." Doesn't mean it isn't an interesting topic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 7:19:52 AM EDT
[#12]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 7:24:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She's really cute. 
That's as charitable as I'll be. It's depressing to me when somebody takes the time to argue in favor of some oddball idea, having never run it past people who disagree. She's obviously never done this. That poor woman is regurgitating ideas that are not her own (which is fine - we stand on the shoulders of giants), without taking the time to listen to learned people who disagree with the folks whose opinions she's parroting. It's sad. I hate it when I see it. But if people disagree with her then it's no longer a safe space!  You can't tolerate macro aggressions like that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 7:31:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about a purely hypothetical being. I don't have to believe in a god to talk about its character as portrayed in a book. It would get old if I had to end every post with "if he exists." Doesn't mean it isn't an interesting topic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why should you care Hit? You claim that you do not believe in Him anyway. As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about a purely hypothetical being. I don't have to believe in a god to talk about its character as portrayed in a book. It would get old if I had to end every post with "if he exists." Doesn't mean it isn't an interesting topic. IMHO, George Lucas (and now Disney) ain't got nothing on the bible in this department. What's more. 70% of the people in the US don't walk around thinking that Star was actually is true. No one makes laws based on why the engineers of the death star didn't consider the exhaust port in the surface a security flaw or how Ewoks could defeat the empir. If they did, the discussion would become a much, much more important one, even if you yourself thought it was just movie fiction. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:21:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And ninety something percent of prison inmates identify as Christians... Anyway, according to the United States Federal Bureau of Prisons, only 0.07 percent of inmates self-identify as atheists. That's gotta be the most religious demographic in the country by a long shot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:44:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or at least they're cunning enough to know what the parole board wants to hear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
odd, the drop in posters almost always are nonbelievers. In the end. In viewing. We are at least hundreds of Christians here. I believe that a former ARFCOM poll shows 70 some odd percent of polled believe in a Creator or God in GD. And ninety something percent of prison inmates identify as Christians. What's your point? If they are in prison, they probably need Jesus. 
Oddly enough a friend who very well knows I an atheist asked if I would go with him and a few other men to the local prison. I guess he wants to scare me straight or something. It is the same man who asked me to speak in the small groups at church. Mind you he and I have had some very frank discussions about religion and lack of belief etc. All of those discussions were, at times, just like we have here. He has a business built around religion that helps place people in jobs. The business pushes religion, so if you want the help finding a job it is in your best interest to walk the walk and talk the talk. I was offered a position as a director of a satellite office and politely declined because it was religious based. He is my friend in spite of our difference but I think he is my friend because he thinks he can "save" me and he has a white knight personality. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 11:19:27 AM EDT
[#17]
For all our difference we should remember these words. I often forget. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 11:28:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And ninety something percent of prison inmates identify as Christians... Years ago I lived in an apartment near Folsom Prison. The next door neighbor was a parolee who was building his heroin business. He told the story of how he got started in professional crime. Someone had hired him to stab somebody when he was 13. He did it and realized that he had jizzed in his pants when he did it. He got his parole and all his initial funding from a Christian evangelist group that waged a long campaign to get him out because they were sure he was "saved." |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 11:29:04 AM EDT
[#19]
wtf
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 11:29:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 http://youtu.be/EWPFmdAWRZ0
For all our difference we should remember these words. I often forget. Amen brother 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 11:36:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually that is exactly what organized religion is. Take just Christianity as an example. There are hundreds of different Christian Churches, with a difference in beliefs that varies between very small (as amongst the different Eastern Catholic Churches) or very large (non-trinitarian Christians for instance). Don't even get me started on new-age religious beliefs. I have a cousin who is a Reiki practitioner and she once told me "Angels are good chi". Definitely al a carte. To look at the religious plurality around you and claim "religion isn't an a-la-carte system" is exceedingly foolish. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe THAT must be exhausting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It isn't pigeon-holing. Organized religion isn't an a-la-carte system where you get to pick and choose what to believe is literal and what is representative. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe must be exhausting. Actually that is exactly what organized religion is. Take just Christianity as an example. There are hundreds of different Christian Churches, with a difference in beliefs that varies between very small (as amongst the different Eastern Catholic Churches) or very large (non-trinitarian Christians for instance). Don't even get me started on new-age religious beliefs. I have a cousin who is a Reiki practitioner and she once told me "Angels are good chi". Definitely al a carte. To look at the religious plurality around you and claim "religion isn't an a-la-carte system" is exceedingly foolish. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe THAT must be exhausting. I have met very few Christians who hold the same open view of Christianity that you do. It's very different. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 12:19:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Years ago I lived in an apartment near Folsom Prison. The next door neighbor was a parolee who was building his heroin business. He told the story of how he got started in professional crime. Someone had hired him to stab somebody when he was 13. He did it and realized that he had jizzed in his pants when he did it. He got his parole and all his initial funding from a Christian evangelist group that waged a long campaign to get him out because they were sure he was "saved." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And ninety something percent of prison inmates identify as Christians... Years ago I lived in an apartment near Folsom Prison. The next door neighbor was a parolee who was building his heroin business. He told the story of how he got started in professional crime. Someone had hired him to stab somebody when he was 13. He did it and realized that he had jizzed in his pants when he did it. He got his parole and all his initial funding from a Christian evangelist group that waged a long campaign to get him out because they were sure he was "saved." Mistakes were probably made. About 80-85 percent of inmates or prisoners after release, especially drug related, about after 2-3 years re-offend and are back in prison. A revolving door. Comparisons to, "free world," society cannot be justified. Some, I believe know Jesus and don't return. God works on all of us and is no respecter of persons. Me and you. 
I was a corrections officer. I was in a riot one time where many were killed or wounded. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 1:21:56 PM EDT
[#23]
"How happy is the man who does not follow the advise of the wicked, or take the path of sinners, or join a group of mockers! Instead, his delight is in the LORD's instruction, and he meditates on it day and night.
He is like a tree planted beside streams of water (Or beside irrigation canals) that bears fruit in season (Lit in its season) and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers (Or succeeds). The wicked are not like this; instead, they are like chaff (Or like unwanted remains) that the wind blows away. Therefore, the wicked will not survive the judgment, and sinners will not be in the community of the righteous. For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked (Or the way of the law breaker) leads to ruin." The Word and Testimony of David, Son of Jesse; Father of Solomon: KING OF JUDAH AND ISRAEL The Old Testament Book and Teaching of PSALMS 1: 1-6 (DCE) The Two Ways: Meditation Concerning the LORD's Instruction |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:04:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mistakes were probably made. About 80-85 percent of inmates or prisoners after release, especially drug related, about after 2-3 years re-offend and are back in prison. A revolving door. Comparisons to, "free world," society cannot be justified. Some, I believe know Jesus and don't return. God works on all of us and is no respecter of persons. Me and you.
I was a corrections officer. I was in a riot one time where many were killed or wounded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And ninety something percent of prison inmates identify as Christians... Years ago I lived in an apartment near Folsom Prison. The next door neighbor was a parolee who was building his heroin business. He told the story of how he got started in professional crime. Someone had hired him to stab somebody when he was 13. He did it and realized that he had jizzed in his pants when he did it. He got his parole and all his initial funding from a Christian evangelist group that waged a long campaign to get him out because they were sure he was "saved." Mistakes were probably made. About 80-85 percent of inmates or prisoners after release, especially drug related, about after 2-3 years re-offend and are back in prison. A revolving door. Comparisons to, "free world," society cannot be justified. Some, I believe know Jesus and don't return. God works on all of us and is no respecter of persons. Me and you.
I was a corrections officer. I was in a riot one time where many were killed or wounded. According to him, it was well-known in the prison that, if you wanted help getting out, then these people were extremely easy to bamboozle. They were. They walked around like suckers looking for someone to take them. They even did all that laying on of hands and speaking in tongues stuff on him. Then they would hand him a bunch of money and walk out telling each other they had saved a soul for Jesus. As they walked out he would be giving everyone the laugh, waving the money and talking about his next trip to the border.
You never saw anybody in this world who really WANTED to be bamboozled more than these people. They lived for it. There was no way in hell you could convince them that they were being taken for a ride because they BELIEVE and common sense never gets in the way of that belief. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:17:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to him, it was well-known in the prison that, if you wanted help getting out, then these people were extremely easy to bamboozle. They were. They walked around like suckers looking for someone to take them. They even did all that laying on of hands and speaking in tongues stuff on him. Then they would hand him a bunch of money and walk out telling each other they had saved a soul for Jesus. As they walked out he would be giving everyone the laugh, waving the money and talking about his next trip to the border.
You never saw anybody in this world who really WANTED to be bamboozled more than these people. They lived for it. There was no way in hell you could convince them that they were being taken for a ride because they BELIEVE and common sense never gets in the way of that belief. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And ninety something percent of prison inmates identify as Christians... Years ago I lived in an apartment near Folsom Prison. The next door neighbor was a parolee who was building his heroin business. He told the story of how he got started in professional crime. Someone had hired him to stab somebody when he was 13. He did it and realized that he had jizzed in his pants when he did it. He got his parole and all his initial funding from a Christian evangelist group that waged a long campaign to get him out because they were sure he was "saved." Mistakes were probably made. About 80-85 percent of inmates or prisoners after release, especially drug related, about after 2-3 years re-offend and are back in prison. A revolving door. Comparisons to, "free world," society cannot be justified. Some, I believe know Jesus and don't return. God works on all of us and is no respecter of persons. Me and you.
I was a corrections officer. I was in a riot one time where many were killed or wounded. According to him, it was well-known in the prison that, if you wanted help getting out, then these people were extremely easy to bamboozle. They were. They walked around like suckers looking for someone to take them. They even did all that laying on of hands and speaking in tongues stuff on him. Then they would hand him a bunch of money and walk out telling each other they had saved a soul for Jesus. As they walked out he would be giving everyone the laugh, waving the money and talking about his next trip to the border.
You never saw anybody in this world who really WANTED to be bamboozled more than these people. They lived for it. There was no way in hell you could convince them that they were being taken for a ride because they BELIEVE and common sense never gets in the way of that belief. Do you know what flavor these folks were? Also Pardons and Paroles would have something to say and do in this also. I have seen inmates who were trouble and violent get released, and then some others who were rather low maintenance and non-violent, many who consistently worked there, get theirs denied. I have seen what I considered to be unjust circumstances for some. Some of those played an active role in the riot aforementioned. Some I recognized, one I saw get murdered. Thrown from third story roof. I didn't know that it was him at the time. I'm assuming he may have been hiding from some others. There is a lot of debt between inmates in most prisons. At least he didn't suffer so much I guess. In places on the unit, it looked like a gladiator arena. Gang related. Some of these boys were muscled up too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:23:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know what flavor these folks were? Also Pardons and Paroles would have something to say and do in this also. I have seen inmates who were trouble and violent get released, and then some others who were rather low maintenance and non-violent, many who consistently worked there, get theirs denied. I have seen what I considered to be unjust circumstances for some. Some of those played an active role in the riot aforementioned. Some I recognized, one I saw get murdered. Thrown from third story roof. I'm assuming he may have been hiding from some others. There is a lot of debt between inmates in most prisons. At least he didn't suffer so much I guess. In places on the unit, it looked like a gladiator arena. Gang related.
I don't know whether they were vanilla crazy or raspberry crazy, but they were packed with a lot of nuts. In terms of their strong desire to be bamboozled and willingness to ignore evidence right in front of them, they weren't a lot different than lots of other Christians I have met. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:24:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know whether they were vanilla crazy or raspberry crazy, but they were packed with a lot of nuts. In terms of their strong desire to be bamboozled and willingness to ignore evidence right in front of them, they weren't a lot different than lots of other Christians I have met. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do you know what flavor these folks were? Also Pardons and Paroles would have something to say and do in this also. I have seen inmates who were trouble and violent get released, and then some others who were rather low maintenance and non-violent, many who consistently worked there, get theirs denied. I have seen what I considered to be unjust circumstances for some. Some of those played an active role in the riot aforementioned. Some I recognized, one I saw get murdered. Thrown from third story roof. I'm assuming he may have been hiding from some others. There is a lot of debt between inmates in most prisons. At least he didn't suffer so much I guess. In places on the unit, it looked like a gladiator arena. Gang related.
I don't know whether they were vanilla crazy or raspberry crazy, but they were packed with a lot of nuts. In terms of their strong desire to be bamboozled and willingness to ignore evidence right in front of them, they weren't a lot different than lots of other Christians I have met. I have seen a few. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:56:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have met very few Christians who hold the same open view of Christianity that you do. It's very different. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It isn't pigeon-holing. Organized religion isn't an a-la-carte system where you get to pick and choose what to believe is literal and what is representative. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe must be exhausting. Actually that is exactly what organized religion is. Take just Christianity as an example. There are hundreds of different Christian Churches, with a difference in beliefs that varies between very small (as amongst the different Eastern Catholic Churches) or very large (non-trinitarian Christians for instance). Don't even get me started on new-age religious beliefs. I have a cousin who is a Reiki practitioner and she once told me "Angels are good chi". Definitely al a carte. To look at the religious plurality around you and claim "religion isn't an a-la-carte system" is exceedingly foolish. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe THAT must be exhausting. I have met very few Christians who hold the same open view of Christianity that you do. It's very different. This. I find Catholics and other non-literalists difficult enough to understand. It seems to me your discretion is pretty limited while maintaining a belief in inspiration, and once you let go of that, what's left? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 4:06:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have seen a few. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you know what flavor these folks were? Also Pardons and Paroles would have something to say and do in this also. I have seen inmates who were trouble and violent get released, and then some others who were rather low maintenance and non-violent, many who consistently worked there, get theirs denied. I have seen what I considered to be unjust circumstances for some. Some of those played an active role in the riot aforementioned. Some I recognized, one I saw get murdered. Thrown from third story roof. I'm assuming he may have been hiding from some others. There is a lot of debt between inmates in most prisons. At least he didn't suffer so much I guess. In places on the unit, it looked like a gladiator arena. Gang related.
I don't know whether they were vanilla crazy or raspberry crazy, but they were packed with a lot of nuts. In terms of their strong desire to be bamboozled and willingness to ignore evidence right in front of them, they weren't a lot different than lots of other Christians I have met. I have seen a few. From what the devout Christians tell me, the part in bold is a required part of the faith. The more of them you have, the better Christian you are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 4:22:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is Hitler in heaven? Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God? What if he repented in the bunker while the Russians were at the door? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"First off, I have NEVER sinned." is arrogance in the extreme. Not if the concept of sin is absurd to you in the first place. Is Hitler in heaven? Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God? What if he repented in the bunker while the Russians were at the door? LOL. Hitler is in the ground. Why would you would ask someone who obviously finds Christian metaphysics utterly bizzaro such a question? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 5:40:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I find Catholics and other non-literalists difficult enough to understand. It seems to me your discretion is pretty limited while maintaining a belief in inspiration, and once you let go of that, what's left? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It isn't pigeon-holing. Organized religion isn't an a-la-carte system where you get to pick and choose what to believe is literal and what is representative. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe must be exhausting. Actually that is exactly what organized religion is. Take just Christianity as an example. There are hundreds of different Christian Churches, with a difference in beliefs that varies between very small (as amongst the different Eastern Catholic Churches) or very large (non-trinitarian Christians for instance). Don't even get me started on new-age religious beliefs. I have a cousin who is a Reiki practitioner and she once told me "Angels are good chi". Definitely al a carte. To look at the religious plurality around you and claim "religion isn't an a-la-carte system" is exceedingly foolish. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe THAT must be exhausting. I have met very few Christians who hold the same open view of Christianity that you do. It's very different. This. I find Catholics and other non-literalists difficult enough to understand. It seems to me your discretion is pretty limited while maintaining a belief in inspiration, and once you let go of that, what's left? I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 7:01:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It isn't pigeon-holing. Organized religion isn't an a-la-carte system where you get to pick and choose what to believe is literal and what is representative. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe must be exhausting. Actually that is exactly what organized religion is. Take just Christianity as an example. There are hundreds of different Christian Churches, with a difference in beliefs that varies between very small (as amongst the different Eastern Catholic Churches) or very large (non-trinitarian Christians for instance). Don't even get me started on new-age religious beliefs. I have a cousin who is a Reiki practitioner and she once told me "Angels are good chi". Definitely al a carte. To look at the religious plurality around you and claim "religion isn't an a-la-carte system" is exceedingly foolish. The mental gymnastics it takes to believe THAT must be exhausting. I have met very few Christians who hold the same open view of Christianity that you do. It's very different. This. I find Catholics and other non-literalists difficult enough to understand. It seems to me your discretion is pretty limited while maintaining a belief in inspiration, and once you let go of that, what's left? I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:08:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:16:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. From the polls I have seen of the US public and, in particular, Arf members, "vast majority" isn't accurate by a long ways. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:17:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. Good point the accusers were the ones who singled out the woman, but then again Jesus never called them out for not seeking out the man involved when he could have. I really like the way the character is depicted as nonjudgemental and accepting of everyone as a friend. On a different note. So, I was at church Sunday there was a guest musician there who was very good but I have to question why the church would sell his albums, t-shirts, hats and such in the lobby. I kinda to me looks like the tables would be flipped. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:39:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. They put Jesus in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. If he didn't order the execution of the adulteress, they would say he was in defiance of Jewish law. If he condemned her to death, he was guilt of rebellion against the Romans. So he screwed them all badly, and quite cleverly by condemning her by an impossible command. The absence of the man was just a clue that it wasn't legitimate. It's probably safe to assume the woman wasn't an adulteress at all, maybe just a random prostitute they grabbed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:42:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The whole thing was a trick by the Pharisees. Remember how they make a big deal out of the Jewish authorities not being allowed to execute people, and that's why they handed Jesus to Pilate? They put Jesus in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. If he didn't order the execution of the adulteress, they would say he was in defiance of Jewish law. If he condemned her to death, he was guilt of rebellion against the Romans. So he screwed them all badly, and quite cleverly by condemning her by an impossible command. The absence of the man was just a clue that it wasn't legitimate. It's probably safe to assume the woman wasn't an adulteress at all, maybe just a random prostitute they grabbed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. They put Jesus in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. If he didn't order the execution of the adulteress, they would say he was in defiance of Jewish law. If he condemned her to death, he was guilt of rebellion against the Romans. So he screwed them all badly, and quite cleverly by condemning her by an impossible command. The absence of the man was just a clue that it wasn't legitimate. It's probably safe to assume the woman wasn't an adulteress at all, maybe just a random prostitute they grabbed. I totally get they were trying to pull a fast one on him. You are speculating on the "random prostitute" thing and technically a prostitute is an adulterer also. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:43:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good point the accusers were the ones who singled out the woman, but then again Jesus never called them out for not seeking out the man involved when he could have. I really like the way the character is depicted as nonjudgemental and accepting of everyone as a friend. On a different note. So, I was at church Sunday there was a guest musician there who was very good but I have to question why the church would sell his albums, t-shirts, hats and such in the lobby. I kinda to me looks like the tables would be flipped. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. Good point the accusers were the ones who singled out the woman, but then again Jesus never called them out for not seeking out the man involved when he could have. I really like the way the character is depicted as nonjudgemental and accepting of everyone as a friend. On a different note. So, I was at church Sunday there was a guest musician there who was very good but I have to question why the church would sell his albums, t-shirts, hats and such in the lobby. I kinda to me looks like the tables would be flipped. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:48:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always assumed that's what he was doing when he was writing in the dirt -- writing the text of the law to show them he wasn't fooled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have stated here before that I feel Jesus as a character guide is pretty good. I don't have to be a believer to see the value in the things the character presented. Though some of the stories are lacking, such as the adulterous woman who was called out (cast the first stone) but Jesus made no mention of the dude she was hooking up with. The woman was not alone in her actions yet the man is not held accountable in the story. I find this misogynistic. The man wasn't there as far as the Bible story goes. The Pharisees brought him a woman caught in adultery. No mention is made of the man caught in adultery. Then Jesus delivered the adulterous woman, which isn't in the least bit misogynistic. If you're saying the Mosaic law on adultery or the crowd led by the Pharisees was misogynistic, then I agree. Good thing Christian's don't have to live by Mosaic Law, eh? I don't think Jesus was a misogynist. Some of the greatest supporters of his ministry were women. His encounter with the Samaritan women is also uncharacteristic of a misogynist. He healed women and he taught women. His views on divorce, while negative overall, were also very woman-friendly, giving a woman the same rights as a man to divorce an unfaithful partner. Good point the accusers were the ones who singled out the woman, but then again Jesus never called them out for not seeking out the man involved when he could have. I really like the way the character is depicted as nonjudgemental and accepting of everyone as a friend. On a different note. So, I was at church Sunday there was a guest musician there who was very good but I have to question why the church would sell his albums, t-shirts, hats and such in the lobby. I kinda to me looks like the tables would be flipped. Once again, speculating. The last time I heard the sermon on this, the pastor also speculated on what was written in the sand and he liked to think it was the sins of the accusers. See, I do pay attention in church. The story in itself is a good example of life lessons that even nonbelievers can garner from Jesus based stories. (not the dinosaur are the devil mess and Genesis gobbledygook) Don't pass judgement, be accepting of people and none of us are perfect. I have no issue with this life lesson from the bible I just wanted to point out that there are holes in the story that if better written could have made it an even better life lesson. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:49:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the polls I have seen of the US public and, in particular, Arf members, "vast majority" isn't accurate by a long ways. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. From the polls I have seen of the US public and, in particular, Arf members, "vast majority" isn't accurate by a long ways. I didn't say the vast majority of American Christians, or the vast majority of Arf-Christians. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:52:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say the vast majority of American Christians, or the vast majority of Arf-Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. From the polls I have seen of the US public and, in particular, Arf members, "vast majority" isn't accurate by a long ways. I didn't say the vast majority of American Christians, or the vast majority of Arf-Christians. The debates here are often with fringe christians and trolls. Keep that in mind. Just like the atheists who debate them, we tend to be more vocal and fringe, and on occasion a little bit of a troll. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:54:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The debates here are often with fringe christians and trolls. Keep that in mind. Just like the atheists who debate them, we tend to be more vocal and fringe, and on occasion a little bit of a troll. See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:55:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The debates here are often with fringe christians and trolls. Keep that in mind. Just like the atheists who debate them, we tend to be more vocal and fringe, and on occasion a little bit of a troll. See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:55:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say the vast majority of American Christians, or the vast majority of Arf-Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I must be missing what you mean. I believe the Bible is an inspired work. That doesn't mean it was meant to be taken literally. The books of the NT weren't written according to modern standards of history, and using them as such today is problematic, at best. For its intended purpose, spiritual instruction, I believe the Bible is very accurate and useful to this day. YMMV. For things like biology, geology, astronomy, nuclear physics, medicine, electronics, accounting, etc.. I prefer modern books. I think the vast majority of Christians would too. From the polls I have seen of the US public and, in particular, Arf members, "vast majority" isn't accurate by a long ways. I didn't say the vast majority of American Christians, or the vast majority of Arf-Christians. So your statement only applies to places other than America and Arfcom. OK. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:57:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If internet polls were worth noting, Ron Paul would be the President. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The debates here are often with fringe christians and trolls. Keep that in mind. Just like the atheists who debate them, we tend to be more vocal and fringe, and on occasion a little bit of a troll. See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. Yeah, not really a response. The polls on Arfcom are the best measure we have of opinion here, imperfect as they may be. They always show majorities believing in demons, and large numbers of people participate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:57:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The debates here are often with fringe christians and trolls. Keep that in mind. Just like the atheists who debate them, we tend to be more vocal and fringe, and on occasion a little bit of a troll. See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. Dude people answer the polls here in nutty ways just to have fun. Don't read more into it than it deserves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:58:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good point the accusers were the ones who singled out the woman, but then again Jesus never called them out for not seeking out the man involved when he could have. I really like the way the character is depicted as nonjudgemental and accepting of everyone as a friend. On a different note. So, I was at church Sunday there was a guest musician there who was very good but I have to question why the church would sell his albums, t-shirts, hats and such in the lobby. I kinda to me looks like the tables would be flipped. Me too. The most striking thing about the role of women in the life and teaching of Jesus is the simple fact that they are there. Although the gospel texts contain no special sayings repudiating the view of the day about women, their uniform testimony to the presence of women among the followers of Jesus and to his serious teaching of them constitutes a break with tradition which has been described as being ‘without precedent in [then] contemporary Judaism -W. Forster, Palestinian Judaism in New Testament Times. London, 1964, p.124. I have to agree with you. I've seen Churches with book stores and coffee shops in the lobby. That a la carte thing again. People emphasize the verses they hold to be true and ignore the verses that they aren't comfortable with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:59:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude people answer the polls here in nutty ways just to have fun. Don't read more into it than it deserves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The debates here are often with fringe christians and trolls. Keep that in mind. Just like the atheists who debate them, we tend to be more vocal and fringe, and on occasion a little bit of a troll. See the polls on whether demons are real on Arfcom. Dude people answer the polls here in nutty ways just to have fun. Don't read more into it than it deserves. The results are very consistent from one to the next. So we would have to assume that lots of people want to tell the same joke. Poll results also are consistent with posts, and people often explain how they voted. Also, there is no evidence to contradict them. So . . . . |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 9:09:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always assumed that's what he was doing when he was writing in the dirt -- writing the text of the law to show them he wasn't fooled. I've heard various explanations. The law requires 2 witnesses, and they had none they simply said she was an adulterer who was caught. The priest would write the law that was broken AND the name of the 2 accusers in the dust (no idea if this is true, I haven't studied any Jewish practices, it is just what someone told me). Jesus did the same but as there were no accusers he couldn't complete the act. He wrote the name of every man holding a stone and that act unnerved them. He wrote the greatest sins of the leader speaking for the mob, and it unnerved him. That man was the first to leave. It is all supposition, as there is no records of what he wrote in the dust. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/29/2016 9:12:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Dino, have you ever considered why there's an entire group of Christians organized against you?
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
