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Posted: 1/5/2016 9:16:09 AM EDT
I got this alert from the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association (NYSRPA).

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/obama_gun_control_order_here_a.html

Ahead of a national address Tuesday, the White House is releasing details of its planned executive order related to tightening restrictions on firearms.

In a series of documents posted to its website, the Obama administration outlines the regulations, which include an increase in the number of background checks required for firearms purchases.

"Gun violence has taken a heartbreaking toll on too many communities across the country," the White House document noted. "Over the past decade in America, more than 100,000 people have been killed as a result of gun violence­and millions more have been the victim of assaults, robberies, and other crimes involving a gun."

The provisions are:

Closes 'gun-show' loophole

Require gun dealers, whether they sell in a store, at gun shows or over the internet, to conduct background checks on those wanting to purchase a firearm. The administration is not setting a limit on the number of transactions someone can make before they are considered a "gun dealer" but notes that "even a few transactions" can be enough to require a license and a background check. Failure to obtain a license can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

Close loophole related to trust and corporate purchases

The National Firearms Act restricts sale of weapons such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. In recent years, individuals have been able to avoid background checks by purchasing these weapons through trusts, corporations or other legal entities. The number of these types of applications grew from fewer than 900 in 2000 to more than 90,000 in 2014, the White House said. The order will require people purchasing these weapons through trusts or other legal entities to undergo a background check.

State participation


Obama said Attorney General Loretta Lynch has written a letter to states urging them to provide complete information, such as criminal history, to the federal database that's used for background checks. The AG's office is also asking states to increase communications with anti-domestic violence agencies.

Streamline background check system


In 2015, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System received more than 22.2 million background checks, an average of about 63,000 per day. Under current law, if a background check isn't returned within three days, a dealer can move ahead with the sale. To speed up and modernize NCIS, the order directs the FBI to hire more than 230 staffers - a move that would double staff size - and complete technical updates to the database. The goal is for background checks to be processed 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Lost or stolen guns

The order also stipulates requirements related to what happens if a gun is lost or stolen while in transit to a firearms dealer. Dealers are required to report lost or stolen weapons from their inventory but the laws related to guns that go missing during transit aren't as clear. Under the new order, the licensee shipping the gun will be responsible for reporting it missing or stolen.

Mental health services


The White House is proposing to spend $500 million for increased mental healthcare services. Other provisions include reporting of Social Security information to the background check system, a move designed to keep those with mental health issues or who receive disability payments due to mental impairment from purchasing firearms.

Gun technology

The president is issuing a memorandum to the Department of Defense, Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security to increase research into gun safety technology. The memo also directs the agencies to promote the use and acquisition of new firearm technology.

Increased personnel, other measures

The White House said the president's 2017 budget will include funding for 200 new Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearm agents to enforce gun laws. Another $4 million will go towards enhancements to the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network, which tracks evidence that can be used to link gun-related crimes.
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This shit is blatantly unconstitutional and illegal to do without Congress.  He has no authority to do it.  These must be nullified and we must push on Congress to REFUSE to fund these initiatives.  We need to eliminate the ATF, not increase its size.

FBHO.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:20:53 AM EDT
[#1]
FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:21:12 AM EDT
[#2]
FBHO

Shall not be infringed.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:22:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Grandstanding.

FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:22:02 AM EDT
[#4]
FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:22:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Much ado about nothing really.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:22:33 AM EDT
[#6]
... Contact your local NRA-ILA representatives



Ask what measures are being taken to stop this bullshit
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:26:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
... Contact your local NRA-ILA representatives

Ask what measures are being taken to stop this bullshit
View Quote



And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Why, if a trust now requires a background check...
And they want to streamline the instant check system.

Why not just have a NFA instant check ?

No CLEO.
No trust.
No waiting.

Perhaps they don't TRUST us ?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:34:21 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
FBHO
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Let me be clear...............

FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:36:35 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm not seeing anything that isn't already law



FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:37:30 AM EDT
[#11]
The trust part and the definition of an FFL are troubling.

The part he didn't talk about is tracking stolen guns and returning them to their rightful owner. I guess he doesn't want his voters to get in trouble.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:37:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
... Contact your local NRA-ILA representatives

Ask what measures are being taken to stop this bullshit



And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.



Yeah, they will just "compromise" like they have the last 50 years.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:37:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Faster backround checks?  Would this carry over to tax stamps?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:37:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why, if a trust now requires a background check...
And they want to streamline the instant check system.

Why not just have a NFA instant check ?

No CLEO.
No trust.
No waiting.

Perhaps they don't TRUST us ?
View Quote

This no reason it should take 6-12 months, should take less than a week most PDs can send fingerprints instantly to the feds.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:38:15 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
FBHO
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FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:38:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:39:58 AM EDT
[#17]
8 page thread on this already
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:41:55 AM EDT
[#18]
I find the reclassification of FFLs and the mental health parts the most concerning. Seems to violate the 2nd Amendment. According to the letter of the law you must be adjudicated mentally defective. If you take meds or someone handles your money shouldn't take your rights to own firearm

Edit: fuck that jug eared cock sucker in Chief. Also fuck that communist bitch AG.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:42:30 AM EDT
[#19]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

... Contact your local NRA-ILA representatives









And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.




 
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:44:34 AM EDT
[#20]
While all of his actions are an overreach, none of them will save even one life.

If you could take all the guns away from all the people that look like they could be his son, then US gun crime would drop to one of the lowest in the world!
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:47:33 AM EDT
[#21]
I tend to agree that it's much ado about nothing, except for the first one.  That's BS and they know it.

If they want to "close the loophole" the language needs to have a very specific quantity or dollar amount so everyone knows where they stand.  Constitution aside, that just makes good sense.  If you want to make a limitation, put parameters around that limitation.  We may think it's unConstitutional but at least we know what we're dealing with.  The only reasonable explanation you can come up with why they are refusing to put parameters around this is to leave a nice huge gaping window of discretionary power for the ATF to go after any law abiding gun owner they want to for any sale, at any time, of any firearm.  Basically, you do something we don't like, we'll pull up a firearm sale you made, use this EO as an excuse to prosecute you and take away your gun rights.   It's a blatant attempt to allow them to prosecute the law abiding gun owners that they hate even more than criminals.  

This isn't about going after the "gun show loophole" where people sell multiple fire arms from a table without an FFL because they can already do that.  Not it's about going after Joe Schmoe who sells a couple firearms through a personal transaction at their home.  ATF points to the new EO, says we got broad discretionary powers that let us do that and then they take the guys guns and even if he never gets convicted, fat chance on getting his firearms back in a reasonable time or in the same condition.  It's all about putting a burden on law abiding owners, that's it.  

The only real reason he's doing this now is because he already knows it will be challenged in court.  They didn't do it back in 2012 because they knew it would be challenged and likely overturned.  They didn't want that sort of defeat shoved down their throat in the middle of his second term as it would be highly publicized and make him look bad.  Doing it now ensures that any sort of court case won't be resolved until he's out of office and it won't be his problem and won't really negatively affect him.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:48:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:49:05 AM EDT
[#23]
I usually do not obey Executive Orders.









Unless it's from my Wife, then I kinda obey.













FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:53:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Lawyers please chime in. Can a law/rule, state something as vague as "more than a few" be legal?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:54:40 AM EDT
[#25]
F$@k Bath House Barry.  Why doesn't he just spend his final year engaging in his hobby of blowing Reggie Love?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:55:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not seeing anything that isn't already law

FBHO
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The definition of who is a dealer is going to sting some people.  What will be the number?  5 guns per year? 10? Will it be a monetary number?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:55:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 9:59:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You know, I am sick of hearing this kind of bullshit.

I know folks at the NRAILA and they are, in fact, taking this deadly seriously and do plan a response.

So quit being so stupid about an organization that's actually working to fight this asshole on our behalf.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.


You know, I am sick of hearing this kind of bullshit.

I know folks at the NRAILA and they are, in fact, taking this deadly seriously and do plan a response.

So quit being so stupid about an organization that's actually working to fight this asshole on our behalf.


Correct.  John_Wayne777 and I know the same people at the NRA.  These people do far more than is known publicly.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:00:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Mental health services

The White House is proposing to spend $500 million for increased mental healthcare services. Other provisions include reporting of Social Security information to the background check system, a move designed to keep those with mental health issues or who receive disability payments due to mental impairment from purchasing firearms.
View Quote


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:00:22 AM EDT
[#30]
So if I go to a gunshow a week from now with a goal to unload some excess AR's, am I gonna get loved tenderly? I'll just be walking around like everybody else, no table or anything.

FBHO
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:01:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Executive Action not Order
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:01:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mental health services

The White House is proposing to spend $500 million for increased mental healthcare services. Other provisions include reporting of Social Security information to the background check system, a move designed to keep those with mental health issues or who receive disability payments due to mental impairment from purchasing firearms.


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?


Yep. Probably don't even need a diagnosis. They'll take guns away on suspicion.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:02:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mental health services

The White House is proposing to spend $500 million for increased mental healthcare services. Other provisions include reporting of Social Security information to the background check system, a move designed to keep those with mental health issues or who receive disability payments due to mental impairment from purchasing firearms.


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?


I wouldn't doubt it.  I have buddies that have legit PTSD and they wisely don't seek treatment/money from the VA for it.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:05:38 AM EDT
[#35]
I "couple of FTF sales" is a red herring. Sure a couple of sales to a prohibited person could land you in Club Fed, other than that it's toothless.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:07:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I "couple of FTF sales" is a red herring. Sure a couple of sales to a prohibited person could land you in Club Fed, other than that it's toothless.
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No, they make up the law as they go along and this encourages it.  If I was an ARF admin, I'd be watching IP addresses of new accounts that are hitting the EE very closely.  I'll be doing just that at Pistol-Forum.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:12:20 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
Much ado about nothing really.
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The only thing concerns me is the mental health issue. Some folks go through a rough patch due to death, divorce, etc and are treated with anti-depressants, etc. and move on.
99.999999% of those do not go on to shoot up theaters or schools. I think "ajudicated mentally defective" is sufficent because there is due process.
Once te camel's nose is under the tent, the definition will be expanded to include just about everybody.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:12:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mental health services

The White House is proposing to spend $500 million for increased mental healthcare services. Other provisions include reporting of Social Security information to the background check system, a move designed to keep those with mental health issues or who receive disability payments due to mental impairment from purchasing firearms.


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?

Yes, and old timers who are on some kind of medication.

In other words, the very people most likely to fight the government.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 10:27:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Require gun dealers, whether they sell in a store, at gun shows or over the internet, to conduct background checks on those wanting to purchase a firearm. The administration is not setting a limit on the number of transactions someone can make before they are considered a "gun dealer" but notes that "even a few transactions" can be enough to require a license and a background check. Failure to obtain a license can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.
View Quote


This tells me that FFL's should become more available to "kitchen table" dealers. If the place of sale doesn't matter, and the dealer intends to sell exclusively at gun shows, then whether his home qualifies under local zoning regulations for commercial use becomes irrelevant. This was the big reason used by the ATF to deny licenses to part-time dealers. Now the ATF no longer has that excuse.

Look at the unintended consequences of this administration's actions.

Link Posted: 1/5/2016 1:59:59 PM EDT
[#40]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This tells me that FFL's should become more available to "kitchen table" dealers. If the place of sale doesn't matter, and the dealer intends to sell exclusively at gun shows, then whether his home qualifies under local zoning regulations for commercial use becomes irrelevant. This was the big reason used by the ATF to deny licenses to part-time dealers. Now the ATF no longer has that excuse.



Look at the unintended consequences of this administration's actions.



View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Require gun dealers, whether they sell in a store, at gun shows or over the internet, to conduct background checks on those wanting to purchase a firearm. The administration is not setting a limit on the number of transactions someone can make before they are considered a "gun dealer" but notes that "even a few transactions" can be enough to require a license and a background check. Failure to obtain a license can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.




This tells me that FFL's should become more available to "kitchen table" dealers. If the place of sale doesn't matter, and the dealer intends to sell exclusively at gun shows, then whether his home qualifies under local zoning regulations for commercial use becomes irrelevant. This was the big reason used by the ATF to deny licenses to part-time dealers. Now the ATF no longer has that excuse.



Look at the unintended consequences of this administration's actions.





 
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 2:04:28 PM EDT
[#41]
So why did everyone panic buy again?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:18:53 PM EDT
[#42]
What about selling a collection TO an FFL?  

Consignments?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:30:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Is this  homme joking?
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:36:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Translation: "We will continue to inforce existing regulations. I am a spineless pussy."
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:38:37 PM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:
Much ado about nothing really.
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Depends on how the enforce the "dealer" stuff.  If they're serious about original box = dealer for a single gun sale, then they can charge damn near anyone with a felony.   That's not acceptable.


Also wondering if the print and photo requirement means that people can't E-file anymore.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:41:27 PM EDT
[#46]

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Quoted:



I wouldn't go rent a table at a gunshow without an FFL....  
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Quoted:



Quoted:

I'm not seeing anything that isn't already law



FBHO
I wouldn't go rent a table at a gunshow without an FFL....  
Just sell beef jerky

 
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:47:00 PM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:
I wouldn't go rent a table at a gunshow without an FFL....  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not seeing anything that isn't already law

FBHO
I wouldn't go rent a table at a gunshow without an FFL....  


You don't need an FFL to sell the beanie babies or beef jerky...
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:48:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Nothing that's gonna affect me at the moment. It's the state level that affects us the most.
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 3:51:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mental health services

The White House is proposing to spend $500 million for increased mental healthcare services. Other provisions include reporting of Social Security information to the background check system, a move designed to keep those with mental health issues or who receive disability payments due to mental impairment from purchasing firearms.


So, does this mean vets with a diagnosis of PTSD (regardless of severity) and receiving disability payments can be denied firearm sales?



They would have done that by now.  I'm guessing something along the lines of what the VA has done however in regards to those who couldn't handle their daily affairs due to mental illness.  People receive VA disability for all types of mental health issues even if treatment has never been sought- ever.

ETA:  from https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

(Left cold on purpose)

"Include information from the Social Security Administration in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm. Current law prohibits individuals from buying a gun if, because of a mental health issue, they are either a danger to themselves or others or are unable to manage their own affairs. The Social Security Administration (SSA) has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to ensure that appropriate information in its records is reported to NICS. The reporting that SSA, in consultation with the Department of Justice, is expected to require will cover appropriate records of the approximately 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue, receive disability benefits, and are unable to manage those benefits because of their mental impairment, or who have been found by a state or federal court to be legally incompetent. The rulemaking will also provide a mechanism for people to seek relief from the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm for reasons related to mental health."
Link Posted: 1/5/2016 4:06:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You know, I am sick of hearing this kind of bullshit.

I know folks at the NRAILA and they are, in fact, taking this deadly seriously and do plan a response.

So quit being so stupid about an organization that's actually working to fight this asshole on our behalf.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
And they'll respond by saying a lot of nothing, then telling you to send more money.


You know, I am sick of hearing this kind of bullshit.

I know folks at the NRAILA and they are, in fact, taking this deadly seriously and do plan a response.

So quit being so stupid about an organization that's actually working to fight this asshole on our behalf.

Amen. I wish you could just give timeouts to people spreading misinformation about the NRA.

The NRA is our only bulwark against this shit. If you don't support them, you ARE the problem.

I find the open-ended prosecution of private sellers troublesome, along with 41F, which makes NFA trusts nearly useless, and the whole Mental health aspect is more than troubling. Read aleksandr solzhenitsyn if you want to know how the Soviet state used mental institutions, and declarations of insanity against the populace.
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